Mario Odyssey is giving me Banjo-Kazooie vibes with its sandbox structure

I would argue otherwise and I think it has weaker platforming than Rares later output as well despite those games going in an increasingly adventure dominanted direction

A lot of the platforming challenge from Banjo imo stems from the endurance of having to suss out where the notes are, then acquiring them all without dying. The actual platforming itself is usually very simple. Compare how static most of the jumps are in Click Clock Wood to Tick Tock Clock. TTC features a lot of moving parts and obstacles designed to keep Mario from just moving straight and lining up leaps. In Banjo the climb up CCW is still dexterious and perilous but you can stop and line up every jump since theyre all "static" and its main non-jump obstacle is remembering to tap attack during some jumps to clear out bird enemies.

I guess to sum up imo Mario has the more difficult platforming because even though 64 isnt as platforming dense as later entries, when they do challenge you with its with specifically designed tricky jumps and obstacles meant to challenge your skillset directly. In Banjo the platforming is usually very simple in design but the challenge stems from metachallenge of gathering all of the notes without dying or else you have to start over again. I prefer the more direct challenge of 64.

hope this makes sense i kinda just rolled out of bed lmao

Amazing explanation. That's basically what I was getting at when I mentioned about Mario 64 having much more mastery behind it and being a game of traversal than collecting. It also comes down to the physics too, you can either use them to your advantage or face a disadvantage if a risky move goes wrong.

This is also one of my favourite explanations and why I'm hesitant to compare the platforming of BK and Mario 64 and say BK comes off my favourably:

If you look at Banjo Kazooie and Sunshine (in the main stages) you'll notice one peculiar thing: an almost complete lack of traditional platforming obstacles.

Rotating platforms. Spinning blocks. Sinking stands. Ground that slips away and falls beneath your fit. From what I remember of Banjo, it has almost none of this. Sunshine has a bit more, but it's few and far between, and it rarely places a series of them deliberately between you and your objective.

The (top part) of the Pianta village level is pure Banjo. A flat, square grid with a bunch of hills placed haphazardly around the map. No platforming obstacles . Certainly nothing resembling a path you have to take. Gelato beach is the same thing. It's as if Rare and then EAD decided to make a bunch of hub levels as the main levels.

Mario 64 on the other hand is an extremely clever little bastard. Many of the levels are spirals with strong vertical elements. A hilltop. A fortress. A snowy mountain. A tall tall mountain. A clock. It takes a star, and it puts it at the top, or sometimes at the bottom of the level. You've got to work to get it. You have to pass the traditional obstacles the designers purposefully put in front of you on an obvious path. Off the beaten path are opportunities for exploration and hence your other stars.

But, that's only half the story. The tight spiraling structure of a Whomp's Fortress or Tick Tock Clock means endless opportunities for creative platforming. And Mario's mechanics allow you to take full advantage of them.

Mario 64 never forgot it was a platformer. Maneuvering up and down Whomp's Fortress, with its vertical structure and obstacles and enemies which are all trying to kill you, is a lot more interesting to me than meandering around Gelato Beach with its static trees and static beach houses and static mountain path. I still think Mario 64 is the only game to get open 3D platforming stage design correct.
 
I mean look, I don't want to dismiss anyone's opinion since we're all entitled to them, but if you've been watching ANY of the Treehouse live streams for Odyssey, then you know that comparison is flat out wrong, and literally only exists at face value, that yeah, there are HUMANS in a MARIO world. But that's it.

Well I haven't watched any treehouse streams, the two trailers are all I need to see. Just saying it was the vibes I got, wasn't making a direct comparison.
 
That's why it's totally my jam.

On a sidenote Grant Kirhope working on Mario + Rabbids is also a full circle :P.
 
I doubt I'll get banjo vibes when playing the game, but it is clear they'll have plenty in common structurally, given that levels don't kick you out and there's 100 unique coins per level, and of course the transformations.

Which is gonna be great, of course. I've always enjoyed banjos world structure but marios controls and gameplay and level layout.

Seeing all the side objectives reward you with moons for exploring and interacting with npcs is great, but seeing that there's going to be lots of solid platforming is even better. Just seeing all the different things you can do in the sand kingdom makes it clear time this game is gonna be great.
 
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from banjo tooie
 
Seeing the "transformations" instantly made me think of Banjo-Kazooie. I absolutely cannot wait for this game. The song has been stuck in my head.

Kirby was the first thing I considered. Mostly due to BK transformations being more focused and specific on a single task and very rigid in their application.
 
Kirby was the first thing I considered. Mostly due to BK transformations being more focused and specific on a single task and very rigid in their application.

But that's actually the case for the transformations in Odyssey. There's still more to be seen of course, but each transformation seems to serve a specific purpose.
 
The transformations aren't BK style at all really, imo they're almost completely identical to space station silicon valley.
 
Well technically it should give you Super Mario 64 vibes, but i do like the Banjo like mechanic in which completing objectives (ie, getting moons) doesn't boot you out of the level.
 
I guess you can say for "characterization", Super Mario 64 is really abstract while Kazooie had colorful words filled with NPCs. The Quest shown where you had to wear particular clothes to enter a place and receive a moon reminded me so much of BK.
 
I asked the Nintendo rep at the booth if moons were replacing stars in this game and he said no they were just collectibles. Although the game time-stamping and throwing up an overlay when you collect it led me to believe otherwise.

I haven't kept up with the interviews and info the last few days though so I have no idea.
 
- Levels are static, they don't change per objective, same as BK; ie in other Mario games, you had to enter the stage for each star, and it would be slightly different each time to accomodate that Star challenge, especially true in Galaxy, now you can find multiple "moon pieces" each visit, just like BK, and the stages don't change.

This isn't true, there are multiple configurations of each stage.

I asked the Nintendo rep at the booth if moons were replacing stars in this game and he said no they were just collectibles. Although the game time-stamping and throwing up an overlay when you collect it led me to believe otherwise.

Was your Nintendo rep an actual Nintendo employee, or a person hired to do the show demo? The latter are not equipped to answer any real questions about the game.
 
I asked the Nintendo rep at the booth if moons were replacing stars in this game and he said no they were just collectibles. Although the game time-stamping and throwing up an overlay when you collect it led me to believe otherwise.

I haven't kept up with the interviews and info the last few days though so I have no idea.

Maybe they thought you meant Power Stars for some odd reason? Because they explicitly said that Moons are what power-up your ship which allows you to move onto next kingdoms on the treehouse.
 
I asked the Nintendo rep at the booth if moons were replacing stars in this game and he said no they were just collectibles. Although the game time-stamping and throwing up an overlay when you collect it led me to believe otherwise.

I haven't kept up with the interviews and info the last few days though so I have no idea.

Maybe he thought you were speaking about the star powerup instead?
 
I didn't watch too much treehouse content but the game looks so cool. Banjo is obviously inspired by Mario 64 anyways but things like going in a building and finding a whole sub level in it is something that isn't done too much nowadays. One of the reasons Mario 64 is still revered is for it's very fun progression system. Basically the hub was a level in itself, so getting in levels was engaging gameplay as well. When the last few games had a level select progression this is especially refreshing. I think this is something that is very satisfying in 3D gaming but few games do it since they would rather settle for simply levels or having a clear divide between them and the overworld.
 
It's one my favorite new aspects of the game. In any conversation I've had about the game prior to it's E3 unveiling, I'd always bring up how I wanted its collectible structure to be similar to that of the Banjo games and DK 64. I'm not a fan of the mission based structure that kicks you out of the level every time you collect a Star. Being able to collect a moon and then fluidly continue through the level makes for a much better experience imo. I loved that about getting Jiggies and Golden Bananas in Banjo and DK and I'm loving it here for Mario's Moons.
 
Though I feel it had a little too much spotlight in the Treehouse segments, this really was a great game. I'm excited for this, and I can't wait to journey throughout this massive world. And the hat? Brilliant. Just another reason to love this game.

It deserved to be GOTY.
 
This isn't true, there are multiple configurations of each stage.
Already answered it, read the thread; and the point is that you can get multiple moon/banana thingies in one visit, this isn't true in previous Mario games, were the only times you could get multiple (read: two) Stars/Shines were when you got the 100 coin star.

Although, I'm not too sure how it works, because you can get one banana in small quests and there are bigger quests (boss fights, etc) where you get a triple banana. Are triple bananas just three bananas? Or are they special bananas like Mario 64's keys?

Also, is there a configuration of the stage for each triple banana? Or are there multiple triple bananas per stage configuration?
 
I just hope the levels have a ton to explore and discover. If that happens I'll be happy.

if anything, from what we've seen, it seems that the people who want "adventure" have nothing to worry about. It's the people who want "platforming" who can't be sure just yet.
 
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