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[SENPAIatLARGE]

So now we're already declaring that any success Infinite potentially sees will only be because of single-player content? There's absolutely no possibility that this game could end up with a fun, deep system at all and garner success from that?

This community is hilarious at times. It's good to see MVC3 players do exactly what MVC2 players did when MVC3 was unveiled, though.

The cycle always resets.

 

[Spinluck]

nobody buys fighting games for the single player mode.

Posts like this makes me believe that the fgc will never get it.

 

[BronsonLee]

I know more about the lore of Mortal Kombat then I care to admit

Liu Kang nooooooooo

Raiden is a fuckup

 

[Dahbomb]

So now we're already declaring that any success Infinite potentially sees will only be because of single-player content? There's absolutely no possibility that this game could end up with a fun, deep system at all and garner success from that?

This community is hilarious at times. It's good to see MVC3 players do exactly what MVC2 players did when MVC3 was unveiled, though.

It's true though.

Marvel Infinite could be a fun/deep game, that's absolutely correct. But that's not as big of a factor to its sales as the rest of the stuff I mentioned.

Look at all the posts on gaming side about the game. There are far more people upset about no X Men in the game than 2v2 no assists game play. If the roster is godlike and the modes are there, then people are going to buy the game. Why? Because there's no way to know if the game play is good or not until you actually buy the game but stuff like roster selection and modes are easy ways to sell fighting games.

Hell I think SFV is a very good fighting game that is actually the most balanced first version of a 2D fighting game yet. People will laugh at me for saying this but I do believe it to be true. It's accessible yet deep enough for competitive play. SFV's failings were less in its game play and more in its lack of content on day 1 and other issues like server problems. Like Ultradavid said, the core fighting of SFV is great but everything around it is a pile of turd.

 

[Negaduck]

Liu Kang nooooooooo

Raiden is a fuckup

Zombie Liu Kang was dope

 

[TheDinoman]

You know that's not what people are saying. It was insane that 3 didn't have Capcom's flagship character. If Darkstalkers can get several characters then Mega Man certainly can as well.

I always thought it was stupid that Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, a game with 26 fighters, can have three Mega Man characters but for some reason Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, a game with 50 characters, can only have two, and neither one of them being the main namesake character himself. What the fuck.

When UMVC3 was fully wrapped up, it had 25 Capcom characters...not one of them Mega Man. Meanwhile, Smash Bros. 4 had one Capcom character when it first came out...and it was Mega Man. God damn.

 

[SloaneRisette]

I hope Captain America and The Winter Soldier are shown off on ESPN

Flash the Marvel logo, the Capcom logo, cut to black

Pause

"...Who the hell is Bucky?"

FIGHT!

 

[BronsonLee]

Zombie Liu Kang was dope

The Zombie King

 

[SpaceWolf]

Just under four hours. Of course, it's going to be part of a re-airing of the Capcom Cup finals, so it'll probably be closer to five hours until they actually air the footage.

Thanks, mate.

 

[cordy]

Infinite is promising a lot of singelplayer story content, which if they deliver on, will ensure the game sells extremely well.

It ain't gonna ever happen but

Sakura and Sagat for MvCI. Give em justice even in story mode as non-playables.

 

[trutrutru]

Now you're getting it.

Dumbing down gameplay mechanics isn't going to drastically change how a game sells. The masses see things more superficially than that. Which is why MK and tons of other games sell on the power of "sick graphics, bro."

Well drastic or not, if a company perceives doing something a certain way is going to make the game sell more, from a company's perspective, they are within their right to do so.

also, despite MVC3's low barrier of entry, it still had a high skill ceiling. 90% of the people complaining here cant perform the way the top 20 in the tournament scene do. So your really just complaining about something you'll never attain anyway. There is no reason this game cant have a higher skill ceiling than mvc3. TVC was considered a better game, and this game seems to lean more in that direction.

End of the day, what do you, or should you care, if casuals have a better time entering and enjoying the game, if the skill ceiling is going to remain high?

End of the day, the tournament scene still gets a game that requires a lot of skill to master for tournament purposes.

The new tag mechanic wont be so bad because you can come in and do ANY MOVE. So in some ways thats better than 3 predetermined assist moves. The only thing it might hurt or are for OTG stuff, but that itself was a bit excessive and required less skill in MVC3.

End of the day. Low barrier of entry doesnt equal low skill ceiling.

 

[1upsuper]

I always thought it was stupid that Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, a game with 26 fighters, can have three Mega Man characters but for some reason Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, a game with 50 characters, can only have two, and neither one of them being the main namesake character himself. What the fuck.

When UMVC3 was fully wrapped up, it had 25 Capcom characters...not one of them Mega Man. Meanwhile, Smash Bros. 4 had one Capcom character when it first came out...and it was Mega Man. God damn.

Exactly. It was ridiculous. That was a very dark time for Mega Man for no damn reason.

 

[Spinluck]

Infinite is promising a lot of singelplayer story content, which if they deliver on, will ensure the game sells extremely well.

They should make it complicated and bar out anything that can be seen as entry level or casual though...

Whether people like it or not, Marvel is most likely influencing this franchise more than ever, and not every Marvel fan is a fighting game expert. The company is much different than when MvC3 released. The fgc will always stick around as long as the game is good, but there will need to be content to entertain more casual fans. This will help the game more than people think.

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

nobody buys fighting games for the single player mode.

I do. I've only played a handful of online matches between UMvC3 and Skullgirls, and none between MK9, Injustice, and my dabbling in KOF XIII and Guilty Gear Xrd.

 

[J_Macgrady]

At the end of the day, there's so many different ways of entertaining yourself. If your company found a passionate core group of people to cater to, think of other ways to bring in a new audience in which you only add on to your core rather than change it.

People don't have to play fighting games. People don't have to play games. People don't even have to stay in the house to enjoy themselves. Because of that embrace the craziness in your gameplay rather than tone it down.

 

[KAL2006]

More people would buy a fighting game with more modes like a Story Mode and Arcade Mode, more features, more customization and more extras as a major selling point compared to a fighting game which has gameplay as it's major selling point. MK9 and MKX sold as much as it did based off everything else that doesn't relate to it's gameplay. Even if it had SFA2 gameplay, if they marketed the game with it's gameplay being top notch it wouldn't have sold that much.

I think people are overstating why MK is successful.

I personally think MK is successful due to its appeal to casuals with the gruesome art direction and violence. Better graphics for new generation has emphasized this more on MK. Technology has let MK studio continue to truly make something that appeals to people who like violent games. A fighting game where you brutally kill someone has more appeal to a Cartoony looking fighter in this day and age for casuals.

 

[Raylan Targaryen]

Simplifying fighting games to encourage casual players to stick with them has never fucking worked. Not once. It's infuriating that developers still try to trot out that line for it, too. I can't tell if they're dumb enough to believe it or just trying to work the PR angle.

Ultras were supposed to be a comeback mechanic to keep players in the game in SF4, but it's more likely that a pro will make better use of it, while a scrub will just whiff and waste it on wake-up.

Any dunce can do some damage with X-Factor, but you're more likely to be shredded by Wong's XF1 Wolverine who knows how to kill all of your characters before they can do anything or a competent XF3 Vergil who can clean up when things go south.

I like that SF5's input buffer is a lot more lenient than in prior entries of the series, but quite a lot of the faces seen at Capcom Cup 2016 are the same as in 2015.

Even fucking Smash Bros has only 2 attack buttons, but Melee also happens to have the most consistent tournament results of any fighting game ever. Because the people who place well just know how to play the game better than the rest of the competition. And there were even plenty of posts here on GAF complaining that Smash 4 was too complicated when that game was released.

You can dumb down Infinite as much as you like. It won't change a thing. The dedicated players will be the ones who get results, and the people who can't handle their losses or figure out how to learn from them will throw in the towel and move on with their lives as soon as they're tired of taking a beating online. Nothing you can do can keep the latter group around; that's a mindset problem that can't be solved through game development.

While you're not wrong you're looking at this from a competitive aspect.

The people that fighting game developers are trying to reach have no intention of going pro. Look at something like Overwatch, great game but simplified and plenty of people who never really liked online FPS before are playing it. It's not about making them believe they can go pro, it's getting them to enjoy your game enough that you get them into your ecosystem and they're more likely to spend money on microtransactions.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I always thought it was stupid that Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, a game with 26 fighters, can have three Mega Man characters but for some reason Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, a game with 50 characters, can only have two, and neither one of them being the main namesake character himself. What the fuck.

When UMVC3 was fully wrapped up, it had 25 Capcom characters...not one of them Mega Man. Meanwhile, Smash Bros. 4 had one Capcom character when it first came out...and it was Mega Man. God damn.

I can't feel sorry for mega man. Even with how things have been for him. The franchise is still treated a lot better than other capcom IPs.

 

[Some Nobody]

At the end of the day, there's so many different ways of entertaining yourself. If your company found a passionate core group of people to cater to, think of other ways to bring in a new audience in which you only add on to your core rather than change it.

People don't have to play fighting games. People don't have to play games. People don't even have to stay in the house to enjoy themselves. Because of that embrace the craziness in your gameplay rather than tone it down.

LMAO. This kind of logic, if companies listened to it, would eventually make fighting games unprofitable. I feel like, in an obvious way, the FGC can be its own worst enemy.

 

[uppercut]

That gameplay was not impressive at all. It reminded me of Netherealms handy work. Dead eyes, stiff animations, overly dark backgrounds and too much focus on realism. This does not inspire confidence in the game whatsoever. Also, I stand by my previous statement that Capcom will fuck it up with preorder shenanigans and DLC bullshit until they actually release a complete game a year later with 3v3. Because 2v2 is just not going to cut it.

Preach brother.

 

[1upsuper]

I can't feel sorry for mega man. Even with how things have been for him. The franchise is still treated a lot better than other capcom IPs.

Capcom and Konami are definitely the kings of mis-managing their amazing IPs but Mega Man has fared no better than the rest. Plus, your arguments push for the status quo by saying you don't want more MM in MvsCI.

 

[cordy]

I think people are overstating why MK is successful.

I personally think MK is successful due to its appeal to casuals with the gruesome art direction and violence. Better graphics for new generation has emphasized this more on MK. Technology has let MK studio continue to truly make something that appeals to people who like violent games. A fighting game where you brutally kill someone has more appeal to a Cartoony looking fighter in this day and age for casuals.

Yeah people love MK for it's art and violence but that goes above it's gameplay. At the end of the day. Even with that said, if they marketed the game more about how the gameplay is compared to it's robust single-player options and modes, it wouldn't have sold as much as it did. I'm not saying it's art style, violence and fatalities help it get a lot of sales, it does help.

I'm just saying that MK's modes, extras and unlockables being marketed would sell more than if they talked about it's gameplay.

 

[Mupod]

I can't feel sorry for mega man. Even with how things have been for him. The franchise is still treated a lot better than other capcom IPs.

if anything I feel like they're giving Mega Man the correct treatment. Appearances and cameos in other games to get fan interest makes more sense than continuing a series nobody was buying.

 

[Man God]

Complete list of fighting games I absolutely bought because of the single player.

Soul Edge
Street Fighter Alpha 3, a game I've bought now four times PS1 disc, GBA, PS1 Classic, PSP Classic)
Soul Calibur
Soul Calibur 2
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 2
Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3

 

[christiankid7]

Does anyone think this game might do really well even if its just because its the closest thing Marvel fans have had to a Marvel story in a console video game (besides the Lego games) in years?

 

[HardRojo]

SFV flopped because it was barebones and incomplete at release. Simple as that.

Seriously, all the bad word of mouth killed whatever momentum it had built by launch. I'm sure there are still lots of people thinking the game isn't worth it at all, hopefully things will change next year with a soft relaunch.

 

[Starphoenix]

I always thought it was stupid that Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, a game with 26 fighters, can have three Mega Man characters but for some reason Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, a game with 50 characters, can only have two, and neither one of them being the main namesake character himself. What the fuck.

When UMVC3 was fully wrapped up, it had 25 Capcom characters...not one of them Mega Man. Meanwhile, Smash Bros. 4 had one Capcom character when it first came out...and it was Mega Man. God damn.

Capcom was Marvel and Mega Man was Fox.

 

[1upsuper]

There is some serious revisionist history going on with Mega Man here.

 

[J_Macgrady]

LMAO. This kind of logic, if companies listened to it, would eventually make fighting games unprofitable. I feel like, in an obvious way, the FGC can be its own worst enemy.

It's not possible in life to cater to every single group that exists. Everyone is different.

But before this goes any further, I will prove my point by saying I don't have to entertain any arguments and will go on about my day. Have a good one sir.

 

[Undead Fantasy]

nobody buys fighting games for the single player mode.

lmfao.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Hiding behind assists is a good way to lose both characters.

Guess those people are in trouble since the have to actually fight now like in the old games(marvel superheroes, xmen, xmen vs streetfighter, marvel vs streetfighter) without spamming viper beams, iceman boulders, and juggernaut punches flying across the screen 24/7.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

So now we're already declaring that any success Infinite potentially sees will only be because of single-player content? There's absolutely no possibility that this game could end up with a fun, deep system at all and garner success from that?

I honestly have no expectations as to whether this game will be good or bad on its own merits. That doesn't matter for sales though. The brand, the character roster, the superficial perception of how much "content" people are getting for their $60 are what's going to decide how many copies are pushed onto customers.

But I can play any number of other fighting games that already scratch the same itch. I'd play KOF if all I wanted was a team of point-characters only. I'd play SFxTK or Tekken Tag if I just wanted tag combos.

The ability to use multiple characters in tandem has been what has set this series apart from every other game in the pack (other than the few that were directly inspired by it) since the '90s. To cut out its most distinctive trait in order to chase the foolish notion of "accessibility" is just so obnoxious that it's hard to put my disgust into words.

 

[Undead Fantasy]

Seriously, all the bad word of mouth killed whatever momentum it had built by launch. I'm sure there are still lots of people thinking the game isn't worth it at all, hopefully things will change next year with a soft relaunch.

I hope so. Release all content at retail on a complete/S1 edition and you have my money Capcom.

 

[SDBurton]

nobody buys fighting games for the single player mode.

sensiblechuckle.gif

 

[cordy]

Complete list of fighting games I absolutely bought because of the single player.

Soul Edge
Street Fighter Alpha 3, a game I've bought now four times PS1 disc, GBA, PS1 Classic, PSP Classic)
Soul Calibur
Soul Calibur 2
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 2
Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3

Fucking. Preach. I remember my copies.

- Original PSX copy (friend stole it when he moved)
- PS1 Greatest Hits Copy
- PSP A3M
- Alpha Anthology (mostly bought it due to the fact it would be included)

I love World Tour mode so much.

 

[Karsticles]

A game being easy to play has nothing to do with casuals buying the game. Casuals buy games for one reason alone: hype. You just have to get their little minds excited and they will purchase the title. If you can't get them excited, they won't play your game. They don't buy games based on quality or reasons, they buy games because they feel a fickle inclination to do so. If lots of other people are doing it, they're even more likely to do it because it because that's how their brains work.

If you still the average person is a creature capable of critical thought, look at recent election trends.

I always thought it was stupid that Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, a game with 26 fighters, can have three Mega Man characters but for some reason Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, a game with 50 characters, can only have two, and neither one of them being the main namesake character himself. What the fuck.

When UMVC3 was fully wrapped up, it had 25 Capcom characters...not one of them Mega Man. Meanwhile, Smash Bros. 4 had one Capcom character when it first came out...and it was Mega Man. God damn.

True story: Megaman wasn't in MvC3 because Capcom JP thinks Americans don't like him, and they were trying to appeal to a Western audience.

 

[Man God]

Mega Man isn't even in this game, that's X. They might put MM in later, but I doubt it.

Mega Man isn't in TvC either, that's Megaman Volnutt. That game does have Roll though

 

[Jawmuncher]

Capcom and Konami are definitely the kings of mis-managing their amazing IPs but Mega Man has fared no better than the rest. Plus, your arguments push for the status quo by saying you don't want more MM in MvsCI.

I didn't say no more MM, but some people are asking for more or less a MM fighting game. The series has its fans of course and I'm not trying to say MM shouldn't get his due.

But a lot of MM fans act like the series is stuck in the dark. Despite the numerous cameos and such the series has had recently. It might not be getting the games it should be, but the series at least isn't forgotten. Which is what I'm getting at.

 

[christiankid7]

Guess those people are in trouble since the have to actually fight now like in the old games(marvel superheroes, xmen, xmen vs streetfighter, marvel vs streetfighter) without spamming viper beams, iceman boulders, and juggernaut punches flying across the screen 24/7.

Well I was mainly talking about Marvel 3,

but abusing assist in 2 was even more unforgiving since you could just snap out the point character and murder the assist character for free until they died, right?

Since I never played MvC2 (too expensive and hard to find when I looked for it ages ago. Before the PSN rerelease as well.) I've heard things about iceman and juggernaut but...were they that relevant?

 

[SENPAIatLARGE]

I think the FGC wants MvCI to just be Marvel 3 with more characters

 

[1upsuper]

I didn't say no more MM, but some people are asking for more or less a MM fighting game. The series has its fans of course and I'm not trying to say MM shouldn't get his due.

But a lot of MM fans act like the series is stuck in the dark. Despite the numerous cameos and such the series has had recently. It might not be getting the games it should be, but the series at least isn't forgotten. Which is what I'm getting at.

Fair enough. Sorry if I came off a bit abrasive. Mega Man is really important to me, haha.

 

[MoxManiac]

Guess those people are in trouble since the have to actually fight now like in the old games(marvel superheroes, xmen, xmen vs streetfighter, marvel vs streetfighter) without spamming viper beams, iceman boulders, and juggernaut punches flying across the screen 24/7.

Yes, better to go back to X-Men "everyone has an infinite, even zangief" vs Street Fighter.

 

[bigboss370]

nobody buys fighting games for the single player mode.

i....i do

and for offline versus

 

[PSqueak]

I think the FGC wants MvCI to just be Marvel 3 with more characters

That's more or less the standard hopes and wishes for any fighting game sequel.

 

[PadWarrior]

Having x in this and mega man in smash just fills my heart with joy.

 

[Zaverious]

I think the FGC wants MvCI to just be Marvel 3 with more characters

Well yeah. I'd be content with that.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"I think the FGC wants MvCI to just be Marvel 3 with more characters"


That would've been the worst case scenario.

 

[crimzonflame]

Simplifying fighting games to encourage casual players to stick with them has never fucking worked. Not once. It's infuriating that developers still try to trot out that line for it, too. I can't tell if they're dumb enough to believe it or just trying to work the PR angle.

Ultras were supposed to be a comeback mechanic to keep players in the game in SF4, but it's more likely that a pro will make better use of it, while a scrub will just whiff and waste it on wake-up.

Any dunce can do some damage with X-Factor, but you're more likely to be shredded by Wong's XF1 Wolverine who knows how to kill all of your characters before they can do anything or a competent XF3 Vergil who can clean up when things go south.

I like that SF5's input buffer is a lot more lenient than in prior entries of the series, but quite a lot of the faces seen at Capcom Cup 2016 are the same as in 2015.

Even fucking Smash Bros has only 2 attack buttons, but Melee also happens to have the most consistent tournament results of any fighting game ever. Because the people who place well just know how to play the game better than the rest of the competition. And there were even plenty of posts here on GAF complaining that Smash 4 was too complicated when that game was released.

You can dumb down Infinite as much as you like. It won't change a thing. The dedicated players will be the ones who get results, and the people who can't handle their losses or figure out how to learn from them will throw in the towel and move on with their lives as soon as they're tired of taking a beating online. Nothing you can do can keep the latter group around; that's a mindset problem that can't be solved through game development.

This is so true. If you want casuals then make a superb single player/story mode with simplified controls.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Yes, better to go back to X-Men "everyone has an infinite, even zangief" vs Street Fighter.

My favorites were Marvel Superheroes and Marvel vs Streetfighter. I enjoyed using the infinity gems in the former so I'm glad they brought that mechanic back.

 

[Drayco21]

I think the FGC wants MvCI to just be Marvel 3 with more characters

That would be the best possible outcome, yeah. Marvel 3's roster is impossible to top.