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Marvel's Secret Wars Hype Thread - Where we argue about what "reboot" means

At least you've recanted on claiming that that's what they announced yesterday. :p

Not really, I still think they are hinting at it pretty heavily still. But I just realize that until things are spelled out 100% in text certain people here aren't going to accept it, so why bother ;P
 

Mudcrab

Member
LAST-DAYS-2665e.jpg

The Marvel universe is ending!


Let's hope our heroes handle it better than the Illuminati did when they thought it was their last day. We know how that turned out.
 

bloodydrake

Cool Smoke Luke
Just curious, but is this a potential way for marvel to get back all the Marvel IP's they've lost to Sony etc in cinema?
 
Just curious, but is this a potential way for marvel to get back all the Marvel IP's they've lost to Sony etc in cinema?

No, that's not how movie rights work. If the lawyers have determined that Fox has the right to Character X as part of the X-Men property, they have the rights regardless of what Marvel does with that character in comics.
 

bloodydrake

Cool Smoke Luke
No, that's not how movie rights work. If the lawyers have determined that Fox has the right to Character X as part of the X-Men property, they have the rights regardless of what Marvel does with that character in comics.

but if peter parker isn't spider man anymore..does that mean marvel can use the character..for example

edit: ah to bad..oh well..
 

anaron

Member
Agree with most of it except his black nick fury jab: at the time comic artists were in a fad of using real life models for comic characters ("Eminem" being the main character in the comic version of Wanted). So unless Marvel had a contract with Sam Jackson 8 years before Iron Man, it was just a case of genius casting in the comic and in real life.

He's talking about how they inserted a black nick fury into the 616
 

Slayven

Member
Just curious, but is this a potential way for marvel to get back all the Marvel IP's they've lost to Sony etc in cinema?

No. contracts don't work like that. Like If I rent you a house, and I decided to pant the house a new color, I can't kick you out just because the house is not the original color it was when the agreement started saying it is not the same house.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
but if peter parker isn't spider man anymore..does that mean marvel can use the character..for example

edit: ah to bad..oh well..
Marvel has Miles, they just can't make him Spider-Man. If Marvel gets that deal with Sony, they won't have to use Miles since they'll have Peter Parker back.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
More like a potential way for them to write out characters that under other studios' thumbs.
Maybe not Sony if the Spider-Man talks pan out, but probably the Fantastic Four. The X-Men are too big to be expunged from continuity. Hell, 5 of the announced Battleworld locations are X-Men-specific (6 if you count AvX).
 

Nudull

Banned
Maybe not Sony if the talks pan out, but probably the Fantastic Four. The X-Men are too big to be expunged from continuity. Hell, 5 of the announced Battleworld locations are X-Men-specific (6 if you count AvX).

Yeah, I'd bet that the F4 will be pushed out of the table althogether, while the X-Men get a fresh start in their own tiny little corner. We probably shouldn't expect anything big from the X-books anytime soon.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Yeah, I'd bet that the F4 will be pushed out of the table althogether, while the X-Men get a fresh start in their own tiny little corner. We probably shouldn't expect anything big from the X-books anytime soon.
Unless the F4 rights revert as a result of the F4 movie bombing.....assuming it bombs.
 
More like a potential way for them to write out characters that under other studios' thumbs.
I think that biggest point is that any character created in a franchise that is licensed out will belong to that licensee. So a character created in an FF book going forward will belong to Fox. Same for X-Men.

So it does make a bit of sense to just cancel all FF and X books and transfer the existing FF and X-characters to a Marvel-Owned franchise (ie Avengers or Inhumans) and tell their stories under the pretext of that franchise so Fox doesn't get those rights.

The only question is... Are the rights to the new characters worth it such that you sacrifice the FF and/or X-Men titles and potentially their fans? Probably not.
 

Sandfox

Member
Yeah, I'd bet that the F4 will be pushed out of the table althogether, while the X-Men get a fresh start in their own tiny little corner. We probably shouldn't expect anything big from the X-books anytime soon.

I don't see any of that happening.
 

hamchan

Member
Off-topic but since we're talking about movie rights anyways: Since Miles Morales was created after the Sony Spider-Man deal, that means Marvel is free to put him into any movie but they just can't call him Spider-Man, right?
 
Off-topic but since we're talking about movie rights anyways: Since Miles Morales was created after the Sony Spider-Man deal, that means Marvel is free to put him into any movie but they just can't call him Spider-Man, right?
No. Like I said, any character created for a specific franchise in perpetuity will belong to whoever owns the rights to that franchise

The X-Men movies for example feature several characters that were created in the comics after Fox signed the deal with Marvel.
 
Odd question, but this thread is random at times anyways, is Squirrel Girl rights owed by Marvel or FOX?

that character is technically a mutant, but has virtually no appearances in the X-books and didn't originate there. She's best known for her appearances in "great lakes avengers."

Marvel PROBABLY owns this, though i can see fox getting some limited use out of her if they were absolutely determined to do so.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
I think that biggest point is that any character created in a franchise that is licensed out will belong to that licensee. So a character created in an FF book going forward will belong to Fox. Same for X-Men.

So it does make a bit of sense to just cancel all FF and X books and transfer the existing FF and X-characters to a Marvel-Owned franchise (ie Avengers or Inhumans) and tell their stories under the pretext of that franchise so Fox doesn't get those rights.

The only question is... Are the rights to the new characters worth it such that you sacrifice the FF and/or X-Men titles and potentially their fans? Probably not.
The F4 they could get away with expunging, not the X-Men.
Off-topic but since we're talking about movie rights anyways: Since Miles Morales was created after the Sony Spider-Man deal, that means Marvel is free to put him into any movie but they just can't call him Spider-Man, right?
Marvel actually does own the movie rights to Miles Morales, he just can't be Spider-Man. The contract limited Sony to the characters made at the moment of the contract's conception. The likes of Miles & Silk were made after the fact. And if I recall, Marvel also has Spider-Woman (a fact that Sony isn't aware of based on their emails).
Odd question, but this thread is random at times anyways, is Squirrel Girl rights owed by Marvel or FOX?
I believe Marvel has her, she'd just have to be Inhuman or a "miracle" like the Twins.
 

Afrodium

Banned
Will people hoping for a reboot actually get in to comic books now?

Hard to say. I'm personally glad it's happening because I'm just starting out and the decades of continuity is daunting. That said, if this news came out six months ago I'd have had no idea it was happening or what it even meant. You need to be somewhat interested in comics already to know that a reboot is happening. People who don't follow comics probably pay no attention to comic book news unless it's regarding a new movie.
 

kswiston

Member
Why do people still think characters are being written out of the Marvel universe over movie licensing? 200-300k people read Marvel comics. 30-40k of those read the Fantastic Four. While the book is typically profitable, cutting it isn't going to do jack shit to the success or failure of whatever fox is doing. 40k people will add $500k in box office receipts if they all attended the FF film. If they spread the word to 10 people each, that's still only $5M. Not even Jonah Hex cash. Comic fans don't really matter to movie success.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Why do people still think characters are being written out of the Marvel universe over movie licensing? 200-300k people read Marvel comics. 30-40k of those read the Fantastic Four. While the book is typically profitable, cutting it isn't going to do jack shit to the success or failure of whatever fox is doing. 40k people will add $500k in box office receipts if they all attended the FF film. If they spread the word to 10 people each, that's still only $5M. Not even Jonah Hex cash. Comic fans don't really matter to movie success.
In theory, Marvel's logic is that they're cutting off Fox's supply of characters & stories. The stories case is kinda odd considering that Fox doesn't really follow the comics.
 

duckroll

Member
Why do people still think characters are being written out of the Marvel universe over movie licensing? 200-300k people read Marvel comics. 30-40k of those read the Fantastic Four. While the book is typically profitable, cutting it isn't going to do jack shit to the success or failure of whatever fox is doing. 40k people will add $500k in box office receipts if they all attended the FF film. If they spread the word to 10 people each, that's still only $5M. Not even Jonah Hex cash. Comic fans don't really matter to movie success.

Because as you say, only 200-300k people read Marvel comics. Of the millions of people needing to post on the internet to sound off and try to be important, most of their perspective will be based on what they know about Marvel - which is through the films, film news, and the dozen of fan blogs which speculate about every random thing. Hence all narrative is usually built around "what could this news item mean to me" when in reality it might not mean anything at all to someone who doesn't actually read the comics.
 
I think this might be the most interesting comic story ever. It's like a more realistic modern take on Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Also, Would Marvel be able to use Miles if they call him Spider-Boy? I'm assuming they would need to change his costume and modify his powers as well.
 

duckroll

Member
I think this might be the most interesting comic story ever. It's like a more realistic modern take on Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Realistic? Hickman?

????????????????

I get the modern part, because his storytelling taps very well into the mainstream popularity of entertainment these days - filled with conspiracies, twists, foreshadowing of things coming together, huge moneyshot moments, etc. But realistic?! His take on SHIELD was basically Assassin's Creed SHIELD through the centuries. Lol.
 

Slayven

Member
In theory, Marvel's logic is that they're cutting off Fox's supply of characters & stories. The stories case is kinda odd considering that Fox doesn't really follow the comics.

Fox could do 2 X_men movies a year with 15 mutant characters a piece for 10 years, If they do it by chronological appearance, they might get to Mutants created in the 80s.

I think this might be the most interesting comic story ever. It's like a more realistic modern take on Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Also, Would Marvel be able to use Miles if they call him Spider-Boy? I'm assuming they would need to change his costume and modify his powers as well.
No just no,
 

Cheebo

Banned
In theory, Marvel's logic is that they're cutting off Fox's supply of characters & stories. The stories case is kinda odd considering that Fox doesn't really follow the comics.
Every X-Men film have been based on arcs from the comics.
God Loves Man kills in x2. Gifted and Dark Phoenix in X3, Days of Future Past...etc.
 
Realistic? Hickman?

????????????????

I get the modern part, because his storytelling taps very well into the mainstream popularity of entertainment these days - filled with conspiracies, twists, foreshadowing of things coming together, huge moneyshot moments, etc. But realistic?! His take on SHIELD was basically Assassin's Creed SHIELD through the centuries. Lol.

I mean in the sense that it feels real. Crisis on Infinite Earths (probably because its so old and I already knew the end result) didn't really feel as bleak or that the stakes are so high. With Secret Wars I imagine the 616 and Ultimate characters as real people knowing what is upon them struglingy desperately to stop the earths colliding and knowing that they are doomed to failure.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
I think this might be the most interesting comic story ever. It's like a more realistic modern take on Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Also, Would Marvel be able to use Miles if they call him Spider-Boy? I'm assuming they would need to change his costume and modify his powers as well.
Yes, but Marvel may not have to.
I kinda had a dream of nailing the Miles Morales MCU audition & the Peter Parker actor eventually passing the torch to me.
 

Mudcrab

Member
Yeah, I'd bet that the F4 will be pushed out of the table althogether, while the X-Men get a fresh start in their own tiny little corner. We probably shouldn't expect anything big from the X-books anytime soon.

The F4 they could get away with expunging

Are people not reading the comics leading into Secret Wars? Half of it is practically a Fantastic Four and friends story. It's pretty likely that the First Family will play a major role in the actual event. Whatever happens I seriously doubt the FF will vanish completely from the comics.
 

duckroll

Member
I was thinking F4 for some reason, sorry.

But the new film is based on Ultimate Fantastic Four. Mark Millar (currently the Marvel consultant for Fox) even commented on how he met with Josh Trank during pre-production and he was impressed with he was inspired by his early issues of it (lol).
 

kswiston

Member
Every X-Men film have been based on arcs from the comics.
God Loves Man kills in x2. Gifted and Dark Phoenix in X3, Days of Future Past...etc.

They are very loosely based on those arcs. There are also enough X-Men stories out there to provide material for more movies than Fox could possibly make at their pace of one every 2 years.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Are people not reading the comics leading into Secret Wars? Half of it is practically a Fantastic Four and friends story. It's pretty likely that the First Family will play a major role in the actual event. Whatever happens I seriously doubt the FF will vanish completely from the comics.
I know, I'm only saying they could get away with it.
 
Are people not reading the comics leading into Secret Wars? Half of it is practically a Fantastic Four and friends story. It's pretty likely that the First Family will play a major role in the actual event. Whatever happens I seriously doubt the FF will vanish completely from the comics.

I get the feeling you're not following the conversation.

Its one thing to feature the FF in crossovers and in other Marvel books. If anything, it just means Fox can't do anything with those types of stories.

It's totally different matter from featuring them in their own book and basically creating material for Fox to use in their movies, which is the problem we've been discussing.
 

duckroll

Member
I get the feeling you're not following the conversation.

Its one thing to feature the FF in crossovers and in other Marvel books. If anything, it just means Fox can't do anything with those types of stories.

It's totally different matter from featuring them in their own book and basically creating material for Fox to use in their movies, which is the problem we've been discussing.

It's ultimately a pointless angle though. Fantastic Four has been in publication for half a century. There are so many great stories throughout that there is more material than Fox or any other studio could ever make movies of. This is the same with any other long running comic series - Superman, Batman, X-men, Spider-man, etc. Marvel deliberately handicapping themselves by wanting to not make any more Fantastic Four books just to "limit" the amount of content Fox has, is totally stupid logic. The reality is that when books don't sell that well, Marvel sometimes just rests them for a bit before another creator takes over. If they have a good story to tell, they'll tell it, regardless of who owns what movie rights.
 

Slayven

Member
I get the feeling you're not following the conversation.

Its one thing to feature the FF in crossovers and in other Marvel books. If anything, it just means Fox can't do anything with those types of stories.

It's totally different matter from featuring them in their own book and basically creating material for Fox to use in their movies, which is the problem we've been discussing.

If Fox can't find 10 stories worth adapting in the damn near 70 years of FF, then they are inept beyond belief.
 

Mudcrab

Member
I know, I'm only saying they could get away with it.

Right and I'm saying it isn't likely. Consider this, the movie releases in the middle of summer right? At the same time this FF heavy event is in full swing. When is the FF going to be expunged? After the blu-ray drops? That doesn't sound like the best time for the comics division to make a marketing strike at Fox's Fantastic Four franchise.

I get the feeling you're not following the conversation.

Its one thing to feature the FF in crossovers and in other Marvel books. If anything, it just means Fox can't do anything with those types of stories.

It's totally different matter from featuring them in their own book and basically creating material for Fox to use in their movies, which is the problem we've been discussing.

I'm following fine and it doesn't make any sense. They can do anything they want with these characters, take any FF story they want from the last half-century but I'm supposed to believe Marvel thinks not making future stories will put Fox in a position where they lack material?
 
I get the feeling you're not following the conversation.

Its one thing to feature the FF in crossovers and in other Marvel books. If anything, it just means Fox can't do anything with those types of stories.

It's totally different matter from featuring them in their own book and basically creating material for Fox to use in their movies, which is the problem we've been discussing.

I get the feeling YOU haven't been following the conversation.

The FF have been around since 1961, and continually in print in one form or another that entire time. Fox has over 50 years of stories and hundreds of antagonists available to use, and so far they've used a grand total of three.

If Marvel retconned the FF out of existence tomorrow, Fox would run out of material to make movies sometime in the year 3300.

Marvel pissing off the people who buy their books every month just to screw over Fox makes zero sense. At all. They'd only be hurting themselves.
 

PsychBat!

Banned
Isn't that the question of the day.


exactly. Marvel have had NUMEROUS jumping on points in the last few years,
lol, I was only half serious.

Hard to say. I'm personally glad it's happening because I'm just starting out and the decades of continuity is daunting. That said, if this news came out six months ago I'd have had no idea it was happening or what it even meant. You need to be somewhat interested in comics already to know that a reboot is happening. People who don't follow comics probably pay no attention to comic book news unless it's regarding a new movie.
I personally never had this problem when I started reading comics. Continuity was never an issue for me because there are some characters I don't care about and if there are, I can just do some of my google-fu to find out what's been going. And it doesn't take a whole day to do research, at most it'll probably take you an hour if you wanna extensively learn about a character or in the least, fifteen minutes. The internet is good.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
I get the feeling YOU haven't been following the conversation.

The FF have been around since 1961, and continually in print in one form or another that entire time. Fox has over 50 years of stories and hundreds of antagonists available to use, and so far they've used a grand total of three.

If Marvel retconned the FF out of existence tomorrow, Fox would run out of material to make movies sometime in the year 3300.

Marvel pissing off the people who buy their books every month just to screw over Fox makes zero sense. At all. They'd only be hurting themselves.
Let's be honest, Fantastic Four isn't the most popular comic.
 
Let's be honest, Fantastic Four isn't the most popular comic.

it doesn't have to be, because the FF are iconic. Marvel's bread and butter (in terms of comic fans) are people who have been reading about these characters in one form or another for the last 20-40 years, give or take a decade.

Books go through cycles of being popular, then not, as artists and creators switch in and out and new ideas get tried out. Every character you can think of has had high and low points, has had multiple books on the shelves at once then suddenly nothing of note for months before being relaunched into the next big thing.

But marvel will always bring back their staples, because at the end of the day that's what their fans will demand. Even if FF was only selling 5K copies a month, if they canned it there would be a vocal "bring back the FF" movement. That's just the way it is.

And while it's true that the books have taken a backseat to the movies in terms of revenue, it's the fans of the books that have consistently been the most vocal evangelists of the company, and you CANNOT buy that kind of loyal fanbase, though plenty of companies have tried to astroturf their way there *cough*microsoft*cough*.

It's worth 10 times what the books bring in, in terms of goodwill and positive word of mouth. these are the people that are buying all that merchandising, and turning comic-con into a cultural event.

The FF will be fine.
 
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