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Marvel's Secret Wars Hype Thread - Where we argue about what "reboot" means

duckroll

Member

This isn't official though. It's a list compiled by the writer of the piece to try and help readers understand stuff, but it's by no means informed by knowledge of the actual contract language. It's also kinda incomplete!

Marvel has outright said the problem is they don't make much from merchandise for the films they don't own, so they'll focus on what they do own. It's less they're trying to hamstring Fox and Sony and more they're trying to maximize the stuff they have.

Marvel's Tom Brevoort:

Yeah, that's what I thought. It's all about business opportunity with regards to the merchandising.
 

Drayco21

Member
Getting Bug's rights should be effortless. He was created for the comic tie-in to the Micronauts toyline, so Hasbro has the film rights to him. The same Hasbro that has historically relied on Disney properties like Star Wars and Marvel to keep alive, and has a longstanding and close relationship with Marvel.

I'd guess they just decided it wasn't worth the effort for Bug, or maybe some internal effort to get their shit together on their Micronauts movie is going on.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Fuck it.

I'm on board with the possible reboot. If and ONLY if we can get:
  • The return of Dick Rider (60/40 chance in Richie's favor. Sam's comic isn't selling so hot & he isn't catching on like Marvel & Loeb hoped he would, so I could see Marvel just staying the course with Kid Nova up to this point because Secret Wars was coming anyway. But then again, Loeb still does have a decent amount of pull. But given that the seeds have been planted for Richard Rider to be the Nova of the MCU, I switched the chances from the 50/50 I had initially to 60/40.)
  • Iron Fist and Misty back together again (I'd be okay with this)
  • Sam Alexander stays on Battle World when it explodes (That's not gonna happen as long as Loeb is at Marvel. Plus we've seen black-helmeted Novas in the new Infinity Gauntlet comic. Best-case scenario, Richie & Sam co-exist in the new universe.)
  • Retcon everything from Original Sin (Hopefully that includes the GotG tie-in)
  • Bring back the man that fights and fucks like a Demon. (Nick Fury) (I'm afraid this won't be the case, given the rise of Samuel L. Jackson's Nick Fury)
  • Make Silver Surfer relevant again (He'll probably still exist, just pushed to the corner given the whole F4 situation)
  • Leave Phyla-Vell Dead (This depends on if James Gunn wants to use her in a future GotG movie given her involvement with the 2008 run of the Guardians, which is the basis for the movies)
  • Give Uncle Ben the Infinity Gaunlet (Let's see how responsible you can fucking be old man.) (I'd pay good money to see this)
......Yeah.
 

Gartooth

Member
Bug is with some toy company as far as the cinematic rights go, & the Badoon are with Fox (I think they're tied with the F4 rights).

See, I'm still confused about Bug. The character was originally a Micronauts character, but I think I read that because he looked so different from the Micronauts character, that Marvel could own him if they changed his name to something else. Bug as we know him is the result of that.

It doesn't make sense that they wouldn't have the movie rights to him since they never sold them. I wonder if it is just Marvel's legal team covering their ass.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Getting Bug's rights should be effortless. He was created for the comic tie-in to the Micronauts toyline, so Hasbro has the film rights to him. The same Hasbro that has historically relied on Disney properties like Star Wars and Marvel to keep alive, and has a longstanding and close relationship with Marvel.

I'd guess they just decided it wasn't worth the effort for Bug, or maybe some internal effort to get their shit together on their Micronauts movie is going on.
Part of me wants Marvel to get Bug back just so the 2008 Guardians team can eventually be fully realized. I could put money down on Adam Warlock showing up in GotG2, & Mantis is a safe bet. Maybe Cosmo, but James Gunn did have a valid argument of Rocket looking weird when next to Cosmo, who was portrayed with a real dog in GotG1.
 
Part of me wants Marvel to get Bug back just so the 2008 Guardians team can eventually be fully realized. I could put money down on Adam Warlock showing up in GotG2, & Mantis is a safe bet. Maybe Cosmo, but James Gunn did have a valid argument of Rocket looking weird when next to Cosmo, who was portrayed with a real dog in GotG1.

Mantis is by far my top want after an actual talking Cosmo.
 

Gartooth

Member
Was loving Avengers and New Avengers for a long time before taking a break from comics. Definitely want to get caught up though, loved New Avengers.

Mantis is by far my top want after an actual talking Cosmo.

She is my number 1 as well. Cosmo would be great too although I'm not as sure he would make it in.
 

Afrodium

Banned
lol, I was only half serious.


I personally never had this problem when I started reading comics. Continuity was never an issue for me because there are some characters I don't care about and if there are, I can just do some of my google-fu to find out what's been going. And it doesn't take a whole day to do research, at most it'll probably take you an hour if you wanna extensively learn about a character or in the least, fifteen minutes. The internet is good.

I'm not really letting it get in the way of my enjoyment or anything. I'm mainly just reading whatever arcs interest me. I'm jumping all over the decades and piecing together what different eras of the Marvel universe looked like as I go. That said, if they're gonna do a soft reboot and give me a fresh place to start then I'm certainly not going to complain.
 

nicanica

Member
Good those bands belong to Wendell Vaughn

Finally. A post with sense.

Phylla Vell was an amazing concept. She was an awful AWFUL character. They could never bring her past being a stick in the mud. Her story arc was: "I'm not as good as my brother" "I'm not as good as quasar" "I'm a lesbian. Let me remind you once an issue." "I'm mad and want my lover back." "I'm Martyr" "I have a mystical dragon now" "I'm dead."

I wanted to like her, I really did, but they just didn't make her character do anything other than be a drag on the team.

To think she was the answer to having Captain Universe who couldn't access the Unipower when the universe was in peril so he picked up guns, Bug the *klick* warrior who wasnt anything special but held the team together with optomism, Mantis the sexy, cool headed brains of the team (who didn't become an object of interest), and was obviously leader material but submitted to Starlord's decisions.

Rex is right, the quantum bands belong to Wendell.
and to silver surfer because he looks awesome with gold on him
 
Bug is with some toy company as far as the cinematic rights go, & the Badoon are with Fox (I think they're tied with the F4 rights).

huh thats interesting didn't know that. Weren't the Badoon created in that Starlord magazine as an enemy for Peter or were they generic aliens originally?
 

Game Guru

Member
Kingpin was created as a Spider-man villain in the 60s, and was only introduced in Daredevil in the 80s. But his movie rights are attached to Daredevil rather than Spider-man.

Then there's the Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch thing too, which I don't think anyone really expected. Is that something specified by a contract, or was it something both studios came to an agreement with after tons of legal deliberation between their lawyers?

Both of these are due to associations... Kingpin is with the Daredevil rights because he is associated with Daredevil nowadays as his archnemesis. For example, Fox likely can't use Typhoid Mary despite her canonically being a mutant because she's associated with the Daredevil IP like Kingpin is.

Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are equally associated with the Brotherhood of Mutants and with the Avengers so they most likely fall under a special arrangement seeing as both Fox and Disney have their own versions of Quicksilver. Supposedly, both Fox and Marvel could make competing Quicksilver & Scarlet Witch movies because of that.

I don't think we know for sure how some of these contracts work. It gets pretty weird sometimes.

The Kree, Ronan, Black Panther, the Inhumans, etc were all created in Fantastic Four. But Fox doesn't own any of those rights, Marvel does. Yet the Badoon, Shi'ar, Galactus, Silver Surfer, are all owned by Fox.

Looking at this, the only real question was the Badoon... Galactus, Silver Surfer, and the Skrulls are major Fantastic Four villains and thus logically fall under the Fantastic Four rights. The Shi'ar are major supporting characters for the X-Men, so likely fall under the X-Men rights.

Kree, Ronan, Black Panther, and the Inhumans may've been created in Fantastic Four, but they are either more associated with the Avengers or are part of the general Marvel Universe.

I don't think they will be getting rid of X-Men since the 90s version of the team is coming back which ironically is famous for its FOX produced animated series

x-men-92-111328.jpg

And which Disney owns because of their purchase of... Fox Kids, not Marvel. Seriously, Disney owned the rights to the original X-Men Animated Series before they even bought Marvel. You think Disney wouldn't use a version of X-Men that they completely own over whatever Fox uses for their films?
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
I hate this nonsense licence talk here, X-Men are always owned by Marvel! They just arent allowed to do movies, even with 90s X-Men!

And Kingpin is part of the Spider-Man licence, even Fox had to buy the rights from Sony back then and its likely that Marvel Studios did the same for Daredevil. Get your facts straight.
 

Game Guru

Member
I hate this nonsense licence talk here, X-Men are always owned by Marvel! They just arent allowed to do movies, even with 90s X-Men!

Well, yeah, Disney can't make a movie based on the '90 X-Men, but it isn't the black spandex that Fox loves to use for their films, so Disney is going with the complete opposite design for their X-Men than the design that Fox goes with for their film X-Men.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
I hate this nonsense licence talk here, X-Men are always owned by Marvel! They just arent allowed to do movies, even with 90s X-Men!

And Kingpin is part of the Spider-Man licence, even Fox had to buy the rights from Sony back then and its likely that Marvel Studios did the same for Daredevil. Get your facts straight.
Well, they technically can't use the X-Men in anything live-action, but yeah.

As for Kingpin, he did kinda did jump from Sony to Fox & back to Marvel.
 

Slayven

Member
Yeah but... y-you spelled "Daken" with an "R" in between "D" and "A", slay. D:
How much I care about him

Fuck it.

I'm on board with the possible reboot. If and ONLY if we can get:
  • Leave Phylla Vell Dead
Too the bushes with you

I miss Phyla-Vell though.

She got done so dirty.

So dirty...
She was the best Quasar

No one cares about Crazy Genis.
I do

Real talk

Will Watcher Nick Fury have some purpose in Battlworld?
Yeah to Watch it.
 

bengraven

Member
Yes yes yes.

Been pushing something like this for years.

Nervous about how this affects my favorite characters of course.
 

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
If you know anything about the X-Men franchise, there are quite a few popular X-Men characters that are actually fairly recent creations compared to other Marvel franchises. Deadpool, Cable and X-Force, for example, were created in the late 80's/early 90's, and all three are slated to get movies soon. Characters like X-23 were created after Fox signed the movie deal (and who knows? A female Wolverine movie might be a potential (stupid) idea that they go with). New characters aren't completely worthless.

LOL how is 25 + years ago recent? that was the rise of their heyday. The "recent" xmen are at best forgettable , you can drop names all you want, none of those characters have anywhere near the fanbase as the blue / gold (xmen)/xfactor/new mutant days. Xforce was ultimately canceled and lived on THRU the xmen titles. With the original team being distributed across *SHOCK* the uncanny xmen, xfactor, and the new mutants.

There hasn't been an off the hook "Xforce" book featuring Boom boom, Cable, Deadpool, Feral, Domino, Shatterstar and whoever else was on that scrub team for over a decade....maybe two.

X 23 was created in Xmen Evolution the cartoon I wonder what her status is , not that marvel would use her.

The only xman in that list that we KNOW is getting a movie is again, from the tried and true Blue team of Xmen, Gambit.

Xforce, Deadpool, insert knew shit mutant from Gen X to New Xmen, have ALL been "getting movies" for some time now, i think people will care when they can buy a ticket.
 
Yes yes yes.

Been pushing something like this for years.

Nervous about how this affects my favorite characters of course.

Something like a new Battleworld? Because that's basically all that's been announced.

...granted, Marvel is hardly blameless, they're hyping SW in a way that seems calculated to maximize confusion between Battleworld and whatever comes after it, but still, it's just not true that they announced a reboot.
 
Complicated continuity stuff is why I read comics. The dumb, convoluted story telling and character motivations, and flip flops of character personalities, who's dead and who's affiliated where at any given moment is a lot of fun to me.

This is probably why I prefer Manga. There's something appealing about a self contained story about something other than super heroes (even if a lot of shounen manga the characters have what could be considered super powers).
 

hamchan

Member
This is probably why I prefer Manga. There's something appealing about a self contained story about something other than super heroes (even if a lot of shounen manga the characters have what could be considered super powers).

There's way more in western comics than just super hero stuff, with a lot self contained stories too.
 

bengraven

Member
Something like a new Battleworld? Because that's basically all that's been announced.

...granted, Marvel is hardly blameless, they're hyping SW in a way that seems calculated to maximize confusion between Battleworld and whatever comes after it, but still, it's just not true that they announced a reboot.

They said they are cherry picking characters from different universes and that the 616 is ending. It sounds like a reboot...maybe a "soft" one like New 52, but a reboot none-the-less.


Or if you want it confirmed: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/marvel-confirms-comic-book-reboot-765204

There's way more in western comics than just super hero stuff, with a lot self contained stories too.

Exactly. Some of the biggest selling Western comics in the last decade have been series that have definitive endings or that will have definitive endings. Walking Dead and Saga come to mind as things that will have an ending someday.

As for those that have, look at Scalped, Transmetropolitan, Y, Preacher, Sandman, 100 Bullets, Sleepers, The Boys, Planetary, Invisibles, Bone...
 
They said they are cherry picking characters from different universes and that the 616 is ending. It sounds like a reboot...maybe a "soft" one like New 52, but a reboot none-the-less.


Or if you want it confirmed: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/marvel-confirms-comic-book-reboot-765204

Confirmed? Yeah, no. I like Graeme a lot, but he's simply wrong in this case.

Everything Marvel's said that he and others have (mis)interpreted as confirmation of a reboot - the Marvel U as you know it will end, worlds are merging together (at least in a geographic sense) - describes the premise of the Secret Wars event, in which the entire multiverse ceases to exist except for Battleworld. But Battleworld is obviously not a long-term status quo, and Marvel really hasn't said much of anything about what comes afterward.

I won't claim to be absolutely certain that it won't happen (though I think it's unlikely at best given their pre-SW publishing schedule), but they definitely have not announced a reboot. Period.
 

Slayven

Member
Confirmed? Yeah, no. I like Graeme a lot, but he's simply wrong in this case.

Everything Marvel's said that he and others have (mis)interpreted as confirmation of a reboot - the Marvel U as you know it will end, worlds are merging together (at least in a geographic sense) - describes the premise of the Secret Wars event, in which the entire multiverse ceases to exist except for Battleworld. But Battleworld is obviously not a long-term status quo, and Marvel really hasn't said much of anything about what comes afterward.

I won't claim to be absolutely certain that it won't happen (though I think it's unlikely at best given their pre-SW publishing schedule), but they definitely have not announced a reboot. Period.

They were cherypicking lines from the press conference to fit the article. They should know better
 

Afrodium

Banned
Confirmed? Yeah, no. I like Graeme a lot, but he's simply wrong in this case.

Everything Marvel's said that he and others have (mis)interpreted as confirmation of a reboot - the Marvel U as you know it will end, worlds are merging together (at least in a geographic sense) - describes the premise of the Secret Wars event, in which the entire multiverse ceases to exist except for Battleworld. But Battleworld is obviously not a long-term status quo, and Marvel really hasn't said much of anything about what comes afterward.

I won't claim to be absolutely certain that it won't happen (though I think it's unlikely at best given their pre-SW publishing schedule), but they definitely have not announced a reboot. Period.

Secret Wars is the payoff of the incursions that have been happening since 2012. The multiverse is collapsing and universes are getting destroyed left and right. Marvel has pretty much stated that Secret Wars #1 will be about the heroes of 616 failing to stop an incursion, which will take them to Battleworld. So we've got the main plot of the Marvel U at the moment involving universes ceasing to exist and Marvel stating that 616 is about to be destroyed... It's not too hard to see why people think this is setup for them to birth a new Marvel Universe at the end of Secret Wars.
 

bengraven

Member
There's going to be a lot of Ultimate shit brought in, since MCU based so much on the Ultimate line.


Confirmed? Yeah, no. I like Graeme a lot, but he's simply wrong in this case.

Everything Marvel's said that he and others have (mis)interpreted as confirmation of a reboot - the Marvel U as you know it will end, worlds are merging together (at least in a geographic sense) - describes the premise of the Secret Wars event, in which the entire multiverse ceases to exist except for Battleworld. But Battleworld is obviously not a long-term status quo, and Marvel really hasn't said much of anything about what comes afterward.

I won't claim to be absolutely certain that it won't happen (though I think it's unlikely at best given their pre-SW publishing schedule), but they definitely have not announced a reboot. Period.

the-lord-of-the-rings-the-fellowship-of-the-ring-441.png


"I have seen it..."
 
They said they are cherry picking characters from different universes and that the 616 is ending. It sounds like a reboot...maybe a "soft" one like New 52, but a reboot none-the-less.


Or if you want it confirmed: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/marvel-confirms-comic-book-reboot-765204

What's happening is a bunch of people are getting involved in semantic discussions as to whether there's a hard & fast definition of "reboot" when it comes to fictional properties. It's a piece of terminology that's been adapted for that use without ever being strictly defined. It was slang, essentially - chosen almost specifically to somewhat avoid the negative implications of the term "remake," - implications that now "reboot" also owns, hence the dancing around the term that the Marvel editors are doing whether they have to do that dancing or not.

But parsing the words they've specifically chosen to use in the press event, and the interviews spinning out of that press event, it's pretty obvious that Marvel has decided this version of "Secret Wars" is going to be their run at attempting/reinterpreting the New 52 plan, but with the years of hindsight that doing it now provides. They can look at what worked, what didn't, and keep those things in mind when they make their own decisions.

The question seems to be whether or not you consider the New 52 a "reboot" or not. And if you do - then that's what's happening here with Marvel and Secret Wars. If you don't - then the Marvel Universe isn't rebooting.

But it's hard to argue that what's happening here isn't the same general plan DC tried to enact with Flashpoint/New 52. They're just hoping/planning on doing it BETTER, thus gaining themselves the same sort of sales-spike DC got, but hopefully maintaining it much longer, and without the dissatisfaction that quickly followed DC's misguided/mishandled attempt.
 

Slayven

Member
What's happening is a bunch of people are getting involved in semantic discussions as to whether there's a hard & fast definition of "reboot" when it comes to fictional properties. It's a piece of terminology that's been adapted for that use without ever being strictly defined. It was slang, essentially - chosen almost specifically to somewhat avoid the negative implications of the term "remake," - implications that now "reboot" also owns, hence the dancing around the term that the Marvel editors are doing whether they have to do that dancing or not.

But parsing the words they've specifically chosen to use in the press event, and the interviews spinning out of that press event, it's pretty obvious that Marvel has decided this version of "Secret Wars" is going to be their run at doing the New 52 plan DC rolled out, but with the years of hindsight doing it now provides. They can look at what worked, what didn't, and keep those things in mind when they make their own decisions.

The question seems to be whether or not you consider the New 52 a "reboot" or not. And if you do - then that's what's happening here with Marvel and Secret Wars. If you don't - then the Marvel Universe isn't rebooting.

But it's hard to argue that what's happening here isn't the same general plan DC tried to enact with Flashpoint/New 52. They're just hoping/planning on doing it BETTER, thus gaining themselves the same sort of sales-spike DC got, but hopefully maintaining it much longer, and without the dissatisfaction that quickly followed DC's misguided/mishandled attempt.

You would have to form a Cabal of John Byrne, Mark Millar, Frank MIller, Frank Quietly, and JMS to fuck up worse than DC did with Nu52
 
Secret Wars is the payoff of the incursions that have been happening since 2012. The multiverse is collapsing and universes are getting destroyed left and right. Marvel has pretty much stated that Secret Wars #1 will be about the heroes of 616 failing to stop an incursion, which will take them to Battleworld. So we've got the main plot of the Marvel U at the moment involving universes ceasing to exist and Marvel stating that 616 is about to be destroyed... It's not too hard to see why people think this is setup for them to birth a new Marvel Universe at the end of Secret Wars.

Of course there will be a "new Marvel Universe" of some sort. But there's a lot of daylight between "basically 616 with Miles Morales and a few other new residents" and radical, sweeping New 52-style continuity changes.
 
Quietly offends my eyes on a metaphysical level with his potato people. And JMS completely fucked up the Twelve. He is evil incarnate

I dunno man. You put a book w/ JMS & Quitely in one of my hands, and a book with Loeb & Land in the other, guess which one of those books I'm going to throw to the ground first.

(I'll at least thumb through the JMS/Quitely book before dismissing it)
 
Thanks, thats my point. Faraci made it sound like it was strictly Marvel making Fury black to match their Marvel u when it was a case of uninfluenced creative choice that happened to turn out great for everyone involved down the line.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about Marvel making 616 fury look less like the hoff and more like the ultimate/movie fur which is exactly what they did
 
What's happening is a bunch of people are getting involved in semantic discussions as to whether there's a hard & fast definition of "reboot" when it comes to fictional properties. It's a piece of terminology that's been adapted for that use without ever being strictly defined. It was slang, essentially - chosen almost specifically to somewhat avoid the negative implications of the term "remake," - implications that now "reboot" also owns, hence the dancing around the term that the Marvel editors are doing whether they have to do that dancing or not.

But parsing the words they've specifically chosen to use in the press event, and the interviews spinning out of that press event, it's pretty obvious that Marvel has decided this version of "Secret Wars" is going to be their run at attempting/reinterpreting the New 52 plan, but with the years of hindsight that doing it now provides. They can look at what worked, what didn't, and keep those things in mind when they make their own decisions.

The question seems to be whether or not you consider the New 52 a "reboot" or not. And if you do - then that's what's happening here with Marvel and Secret Wars. If you don't - then the Marvel Universe isn't rebooting.

But it's hard to argue that what's happening here isn't the same general plan DC tried to enact with Flashpoint/New 52. They're just hoping/planning on doing it BETTER, thus gaining themselves the same sort of sales-spike DC got, but hopefully maintaining it much longer, and without the dissatisfaction that quickly followed DC's misguided/mishandled attempt.

New 52 is definitely a reboot by my standards, and no, I do not agree that there is sufficient reason to conclude that Marvel is going to attempt something comparable.

So not just semantics, sorry.
 
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