No you won't because it would be so late you will be in an old folks home before it comes out. JMS also have Kevin Smithitis, good writer but can't keep a schedule for shit.
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Marvel's Secret Wars Hype Thread - Where we argue about what "reboot" means
- Thread starter Neoxon
- Start date
No you won't because it would be so late you will be in an old folks home before it comes out. JMS also have Kevin Smithitis, good writer but can't keep a schedule for shit.
crimsonspider89
Banned
I am fine with it but I like that pop art style.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Id like to see someone try to do a hard reboot. Like go back and start with ff 1 and make that the origin issue and then next month do spider man etc. After the first year or so they can bring the avengers together for the first time and then after like 3 do the first big universe wide event. Marvel or dc would ever do that though.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't know that I'd call either of them "a good writer," so much as I'd say they're writers who managed once upon a time to tell a decent story, and haven't been able to replicate the feat reliably ever since.
Didn't they say that battleworld is the new marvel universe even after secret wars and the foreseeable future? Instead of nu52 which melded universes together and retconed things. This seems like they jammed them into the same universe and the characters know it with nothing retconed. If it was reboot they would be on earth. An analogy would be if we had the 90s spider-man cartoon. This would be spider-man unlimited (sorry) and not spectacular spider-man.
darkhunger
Member
So something like what they did at the start of the Ultimate universe?
They never said anything to that effect. Battleworld is what the world looks like in Secret Wars, and they were very careful to only hint at what's happening after the event but giving the "wait and see" answer also.
Angelus Errare
Banned
They're the same damn thing. Retcons, character deaths and rebirths, power creep, overly long dialog at times to explain simple concepts. Subsitute "superhero" with "ninja", "saiyan", "random high school girl who stumbles upon magic powers" and they're all still trying to save the world. Superheroes all but in name.
My standards are probably lower than yours. Anything above Millar and Chuck Austen, I consider good.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Sort of...but better planned out. The ultimate books started with two and they added more when they got popular. Im talking about planning all 50 monthly books from the start.
Because it makes continuity a lot simpler. Every time dc reboots it feels like they dont want to commit to a full reboot and it makes things confusing. They do things like leave all the batman continuity but take away all of the superman continuity but leave a few things like death of superman but they dont actually tell you what they are leaving (probably because they don't know) and it does the opposite of what a reboot is supposed to do which is streamline.
Thats basically what the ultimate universe was.
Edit: You explained yourself in the above post. Yeah, I would be fine with that, I just don't want to lose the few Ultimate characters that actually work. With Ultimate they had to start slow and gauge interest. Now they can really just completely start over.
because its a beginning. there is no continuity, and shit can still go off the rails by book 10.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Of course it can..that's why quality control and planning would have to be important. If you could plan out the first three years or so it could be beneficial.
Look at it this way...marvel and dc weren't started as planned universes, which is where they run into a lot of trouble. Imagine how beneficial it would be if ypu went back and sorted everything out with a completely clean slate. It would actually probably be more beneficial to dc who's continuity is a clusterfuck...but this is the marvel reboot thread
crimsonspider89
Banned
Deal is reboots will always end up at the same place but typically at a much quicker pace.
See DC and its reboots.
Or how long it took the UU to become an unreadable convoluted mess.
See DC and its reboots.
Or how long it took the UU to become an unreadable convoluted mess.
three years in advance is asking for a whole lot. a basic layout of how you want things to go is one thing. but storylines planned for 3 years? thats asking for a clusterfuck.
id rather marvel go with the themed seasons theyve been doing as of late than that
Is this the case? I thought the question was if this event would be more like CoIE than Nu52.
darkhunger
Member
Difference is a reboot is a good way to get fans off creators' backs about continuity problems. They don't have to worry about something that happened in some obscure issue from the 70's that contradicts with what they write, and its much easier to just make things up as they go.
Guys like Bendis would love this.
Typo
Ultimate's problem was everyone trying to be edgy and shit. They were the shock jock morning zoo of comics.
Gambit 1138
Banned
Fuck yes they would. I actually forgot that ABC bought fox kids years ago. I'd be super happy if they just use the 90s version since thay version was more popular and sold better anyway.
thats the thing though. fans dont complain about continuity. angry about storylines, no question. but when it comes to continuity, that happens to be people who dont read comics
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That's a decent question too. And if so - they've got even LONGER to look at what worked & what didn't with that Crisis and adjust accordingly. But I don't think they're going THAT far back as their main basis of inspiration, nor do I think they're trying to change the status quo as sharply as DC did back then, either. It's hard to argue that Crisis on Infinite Earths isn't a reboot (even though nobody was using that term back then) but as has been clearly proven over the course of this thread, it's pretty easy to argue as to the nature of "reboot" here in the 21st century thanks to the ways in which creators AND readers throw the term around.
Also - the Crisis wasn't all that great a read. It's notable for being the first real attempt to sell to readers the chance to completely disappear up continuity's asshole, but aside from that, its biggest benefit isn't even the reset button it applies (which they just kept jamming on for the next decade-plus anyway at various points) but the George Perez art. That's basically its saving grace. The story is a convoluted knot of mostly pointless bullshit, but it looks really cool.
I've gotta imagine nobody at Marvel is looking to replicate any part of THAT particular experience all that closely.
Do you have an example of this?
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Yup...thats how it always is. You reboot superman and remove supergirl, superboy, and krypto and then 5 years later another writer comes along and says "I liked krypto" and then thinks of some convoluted way to write him back into continuity. I remember the John Byrne reboot, which removed superboy, reintroduced him in like issue 5 except he was from a "pocket dimension" or something even more confusing then the way it was before.
I dont really like reboots to begin with but if someone is going to do it I would like to see them go all out for once to see what happens.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Bendis would but other big writers like Hickman/Remender/Slott/Aaron/Gillen not to mention writers like Yost/Abnett love continuity and then you have rising stars like Spencer/Soule/Ewing who love it as well.
Hell Secret Wars is Hickman putting in as much continuity as possible in one massive story.
Hell Secret Wars is Hickman putting in as much continuity as possible in one massive story.
It's much easier to read ten years of comics to see how the world got as weird and convoluted as it as today than it is to catch up on nearly 60 years worth. The problem only gets exacerbated as time marches on. Whether or not it's actually all that difficult to just jump in and figure out what's going on, it appears to be a daunting task, and the popularity of superhero movies is making now the best time to try to get newcomers into comics.
Father_Brain
Banned
Pretty much. I'd expect that sort of thing from Bleeding Cool, but not him. (Funnily enough, Rich has actually been fairly adamant that All-New Marvel is closer to 616+Miles than to Marvel's New 52.)
Gambit 1138
Banned
The only reason the ultimate universe got fucked up is because they brought Jeph Loeb in who they thought would be a big name and boost sales and instead Loeb had no idea what the fick he was doing and derailed the whole universe and because it was trying to be realistic in the sense of no resurrections or rebooting timelines mark millar and bendis had to try and salvage what was left by changing it into a crazy alternate universe instead of a more realistic modern reboot of the marvel universe in the modern world.
But pre Loeb the ultimate books were selling insanely well and the whole line was far more popular than the 616 books for a time. Almost all of the marvel movies and cartoons (even before MCU) have been influenced by the ultimate books in one way or another.
But pre Loeb the ultimate books were selling insanely well and the whole line was far more popular than the 616 books for a time. Almost all of the marvel movies and cartoons (even before MCU) have been influenced by the ultimate books in one way or another.
darkhunger
Member
Not off the top of my head, but Bendis is always talking about it.
There are definitely writers who obviously love continuity and those who don't. But lately there seems to be more and more instances of continuity being completely disregarded in order to make things "accessible" (how the Phoenix was treated in AvX comes to mind).
I hadn't really thought about it but bringing miles into the 616, doesn't that kind of diminish him being the Spiderman? I mean, a huge crux of that story is Peter actually staying dead and miles taking the mantle and there's no way in hell that would ever happen and actually stick in 616.
not really. miles being in 616 can lead pete to being a mentor to one of his many illegitimate spider progeny. this could be a good thing for both.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Deal is outside of Bendis, all the writers who have long years/have raved books/architects like continuity.
I don't mean exactly copying the process more about the end result. I suppose it goes into what you're saying about the difficulty of nailing down what reboot means. When I think of the difference between Crisis and Nu52 its as if the former is somewhat 'softer' than the latter. In Crisis it was more about cleaning up inconsistencies and maneuvering alternate universe characters or properties from different labels into something less unwieldy where as Nu52 did much of the same but the slate was wiped much cleaner. Like say instead of just simply changing the fact the these characters were in their mid-thirties during the Korean War as opposed to saying actually these characters have only existed for 5 years in universe and only a few specific portions of previous character development can be included.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Someone earlier in the thread floated the idea that Peter would retire/become a mentor figure.
At which point I'd love the idea of a Spider-Team featuring Miles and Spider-Gwen, really.
darkhunger
Member
I've never heard any creator outright expressing their love for the burden of continuity... There are just guys who use it well and guys who don't, and guys who basically ignore it. But it always seems like it's just something that's part of their job.
Do you have source of them going out and proclaiming that they actually love and enjoy dealing with continuity, and the responsibilities that go with it, ie reading decades of comic books to catch up on a character every time they move to a new series?
crimsonspider89
Banned
No but just look at there books.
Hickman's entire catalog is taking silver age concepts and modernizing them like Morrison does.
Remender takes 90 concepts, silver age concepts and realistically displays them.
Yost did the continuity porn that was XF.
Spencer threw so much old continuity in his books that he didn't have to cause he could.
So forth. Where Bendis ignores it or does his best to retcon it.
Morrison is a good example. You can't look at something like his Batman or Multiversity and say he doesn't love it. I mean that Thunderworld.
i love that multiversity feels like a comics over the decades piece
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Kurt busiek. Read his avengers run. Read avengers forever.
crazygambit
Member
You are talking about about Naruto and the like and I agree (though they usually don't have to deal with the trite secret identity stuff), but there's much more to manga than that.
Even in shounen manga you can have stuff that's a bit more creative, like say Death Note for example. Despite a poster above saying there are all types of comics I've never heard of stuff like that (I'm not actively looking either), but if it exists it takes a major backseat to super hero comics (of which I have heard of, without looking either).
Edit: Oh and the major difference with manga, is time. Time actually passes in manga (however fast or slowly). Therefore every manga story, however long, will eventually have an ending and characters that evolve (or at least grow older). Comics are like the Simpsons, where after like 30 years, Bart is still 9. I like my stories serialized and moving forward.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Busiek seems to get a real thrill out of being able to use continuity against itself to serve his own storytelling purposes. It's such a unique skill, and he's pretty damned great at it.
For example - here he is on Rachel & Miles X-Plain the X-Men, telling the story of how he basically invented the Phoenix retcon before he even worked in comics.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
god I can't wait for that busiek avengers omnibus
I love the Thunderbolts
This is from the article I saw it.
http://m.ign.com/articles/2015/01/20/the-marvel-universe-is-coming-to-an-end-in-may-2015
This make it seems like this is the marvel universe for the foreseeable future even after secret wars.
time isnt indicative of growth. to say spider man hasnt evolved as a character because he doesnt appear to be aging cuts the character short. same with wolverine, cyclops, dick grayson, tim drake pre nu52 and countless others. hell there are characters like goku are pretty much the same characters despite the time skips and children.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
well obviously at some point they have to revert back to a universe that more resembles our own
Naruto didn't learn one damn thing
Coriolanus
Banned
Totes.
Especially that bit when the writer was ditching the series so he had everybody killed and rezzed in a "its just a dream" ish.
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