Sadly that type of person will find someone to blame and file a frivolous lawsuit.
Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check
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Sadly that type of person will find someone to blame and file a frivolous lawsuit.
synchronicity
Member
rykomatsu
Member
fixed
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
Yeah, it can be interesting looking at American politics coming from a country with a parliamentary system. Their two party system makes the country amazingly partisan. Yes, parties in Europe also regularly have the knives out for one another, but not on that level. Also, seeing countries with an actual spectrum of parties is so very different to the US.
Malakhov
Banned
My ex wife got mononucleosis and was barely sick for 2 weeks. I was in bed for 3 months.
So yeah.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Development of the deaths from peak infections.
Liljagare
Member
Good ol' nicotine is being reviewed as a treatment, interesting.
Atleast in vitro, it seems to downregulate the ACE2 receptors.
Good thing I am a avid user of snus..
erj.ersjournals.com
Atleast in vitro, it seems to downregulate the ACE2 receptors.
Good thing I am a avid user of snus..
COVID-19 and Smoking. Is Nicotine the Hidden Link?
Leung et al. have recently published in the European Respiratory Journal a paper on the expression of ACE-2 in the small airway epithelia of smokers and COPD Patients, discussing its effects on the risk of severe COVID-19 [1]. Nicotine via alpha7-nicotinic receptor induces ACE2 overexpression...
erj.ersjournals.com
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
You are one of those, hmm? Restrictions work, no bodies pile up, "look, it isn't half as bad as they say". Nonsense indeed.
darkestdame
Banned
Georgia's Reopening Has Been 'A Disaster' For Some Retailers Desperate For Revenue
Retailers and restaurants say reopening in Georgia is a matter of survival, not landlord or political pressure.
www.bisnow.com
Small businesses need more help, people are not rushing back to consume just because some open early.
I'm glad it's just online yelling into the wind while most governors handle things properly.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
You are one of those, hmm? You pee your pants in fear just walking outside.
Chicago mayor threatens to issue citations, arrest those who ignore stay-at-home order: 'We will shut you down'
Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot said Friday that police will issue citations and possibly jail time, to anyone who fails to follow stay-at-home orders aimed at limiting the spread of COVID-19.
www.foxnews.com
rykomatsu
Member
Chicago mayor threatens to issue citations, arrest those who ignore stay-at-home order: 'We will shut you down'
Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot said Friday that police will issue citations and possibly jail time, to anyone who fails to follow stay-at-home orders aimed at limiting the spread of COVID-19.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is now a crime. Jesus fucking Christ...
Malakhov
Banned
We need a netflix series on him a la tiger king.
cryptoadam
Banned
So whats the deal with the CDC in the end?
Whats the real US deaths now?
Whats the real US deaths now?
Taxexemption
Member
All activities I partake in, all products I choose to buy, all experiences I voluntarily participate in are essential to me. Maybe beaches aren't essential to you, but what about your own life? Is your life an essential life? My freedom is essential, so whatever I do in the public space is by definition essential. If I do somethings on the beach, those things, those are essential. Maybe when you do things they aren't essential, I don't know what kind of life you live. I guess theoretically, a person could live a non-essential life. I'm not sure why you would choose to do that.
Edit: I'm training for a half marathon. I ran 9 miles today in public parks. Those were essential miles. Each and every one of those miles was full of deep meaning. Especially the last three. Those were so essential I still feel them.
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DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
They aren't essential to you. They are things you want to do, things you like doing. But they aren't essential. Beaches are no more essential to you, than strawberry banana smoothies are to me. I love them, but they aren't essential. Water is essential. Essential is different than important. Those things may be very important to you, but they aren't essential. Essential is something by definition that is completely and totally necessary in terms of life or death.
By your logic there isn't a single thing on this earth that isn't essential, as anyone could just pick and choose what is essential to them. So in that case I guess no one should have to sacrifice anything, as that may mean something to someone.
Here's what I consider essential: someone's life. Someone's life that may be lost because some individuals out there considered the beach too important to give up to where hundreds of people crowd in it, spread a nasty virus, which could take the life of an unsuspecting civilian. Maybe that's just me, but I consider that incredibly selfish.
Smiles and Cries
Member
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Unclear.
No, The CDC Did Not Revise Down The Number Of COVID-19 Deaths
Several tweets went viral that falsely claimed the CDC had drastically revised down the number of deaths in the US from the coronavirus — but it seems some people didn't read to the end of the page.
www.buzzfeednews.com
BuzzFeed I know, but here's an explanation of the situation. One thing of note, however, is that as of April 14, 2020, CDC case counts and death counts include both confirmed and probable cases and deaths. There are a lot of "probable" deaths included in our death count that have not been (will not be?) laboratory confirmed.
Basically, the update today by the CDC was for finalized death certificates up to April 25th, while the higher number they also report here is based on reports from state health departments.
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Taxexemption
Member
If my freedom can be suspended indefinitely or even for a few, years it will radically reshape my interest in participating in society in a normal way. I'd consider joining a secret society or social group where we go around spitting in each others mouths and sharing germs as much as we can as a form of civil disobedience. If this goes on such a group will exist and I will join it. We will have parties where we breath on each other, spit in each others mouths, while getting drunk and eating raw meat and maybe rubbing it on each other. Whoever gets sick, that's the persons house we throw the next party at.
I love freedom more than I love my own life, and if I cannot have it I will aspire to cause problems for whoever wishes to take my freedom away. What if this was the outcome? That for a virus that killed few people you create a new social movement that spreads germs among it's members and society turns into people who don't have immune systems and have to live in bubbles and people who have super immune systems? I'll be on team drinking puddle water and having super immune systems.
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D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, it's almost as if all of the rules in society are just shit we humans make up and loosely agree to observe.
In general, I agree that life should be prioritized within reason, but what is a life without freedom? There needs to be a balance, and even in times like these, we need to make sure politicians do not forget that.
What is the mechanism for easing up on these lockdowns? What is the threshold for determining when a disease is too dangerous to allow socialization? How do we decide these things?
Nymphae
Banned
Epidemiologist who specializes in analyzing data, professor in disease prevention at Stanford School of Medicine, google scholar says he's among the 100 most cited scientists in the world. Sounds like a kook to me.
Ioannidis is famous for highlighting the replication crisis
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cryptoadam
Banned
Unclear.
No, The CDC Did Not Revise Down The Number Of COVID-19 Deaths
Several tweets went viral that falsely claimed the CDC had drastically revised down the number of deaths in the US from the coronavirus — but it seems some people didn't read to the end of the page.
BuzzFeed I know, but here's an explanation of the situation. One thing of note, however, is that as of April 14, 2020, CDC case counts and death counts include both confirmed and probable cases and deaths. There are a lot of "probable" deaths included in our death count that have not been (will not be?) laboratory confirmed.
Basically, the update today by the CDC was for finalized death certificates up to April 25th, while the higher number they also report here is based on reports from state health departments.
Thanks.
Whats shocking is 64k pneomonia deaths. Never knew pneomonia killed so many people.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
You are being way overdramatic. It's a beach, you aren't being locked in a medieval dungeon. Holy crap, man, listen to what you're saying. You have plenty of freedoms. These are crazy times and sometimes things must happen outside our conventional norms. Millions of people out there have gladly given up some things they enjoy doing. Apparently you're above that, I guess. Sometimes in life we need to think about people other than ourselves. You started your post talking about "my" freedoms. Everything you said was about "me." I think our society would be a better place if we thought of other people than ourselves once in a while. Like those we may make ill by not making some small sacrifices so that people who can't or won't survive this virus might live. That's community. Looking out for one another. Doing things to help our fellow man.
No one's taking your freedoms away man, these are temporary measures to control a virus. I don't know what's gotten into people. It's not just here, I have friends who always talk about their freedoms. They live with this paranoia that there are these people out there(usually liberals or democrats) who are just itching to take away all your liberties. It doesn't exist. And I know, I hear the rebuttal often "Oh how naive you are, just wait and see until one day those freedoms are gone." Ok, I'm still waiting. I've been hearing it my whole life over and over. I heard it with the ban on smoking cities were doing. I got into insane verbal altercations with some of my friends who were screaming at me. "THEY TAKE AWAY OUR ABILITY TO SMOKE IN PUBLIC! JUST SEE THAT'S JUST THE FIRST THING! NEXT THEY'RE COMING FOR MY MOTORCYCLE AND MY GUNS AND EVERYTHING ELSE!" I can't imagine living my life in fear like that all the time. Some things are just what they are. Not everything is some seed planted to expand into tyranny.
This is the worst pandemic since 1918. People are trying to prevent it from spreading. Nothing more, nothing less. Hey, I can't tell people what to think. If people wanna live in constant fear that their freedoms are gonna be taken away, then I can't help that. But I'm gonna tell you I think it's totally off base, it's extreme, and it's paranoid. I don't get what has gotten into people these days. Half the country thinks Trump's borders are the first step into turning the country into Nazi Germany Part II and the other half thinks taking away the beaches is the first step to totalitarianism. Settle down, smoke some weed and relax. Everything is gonna be just fine. The sun will come out, go for a walk and just enjoy some fresh air. You'll get back the stuff that's currently gone in due time.
And if one day we find ourselves no longer having any freedoms, I'll be out there on the front lines with all of you. But it ain't happening. There are things out there actually worth worrying about at the moment, people.
Raven117
Member
The thing is, we balance risk everyday. Flu, driving cars, construction, crossing the street, swimming pools...: there a a zillion things a day that could potentially kill us but we all make a collective decision that's the benefit outweighs the risk.
Covid early on looked terrifying. People in Italy were dying in the ER things were brutal. At that point, the risk (millions dead), did not look like it outweighed the benefit (economy).
About three weeks or so ago, that changed. We know we can control this virus, it's not AS deadly as originally feared, etc etc. At that moment.... literally it was the Monday after the major models all revised downwards by huge margins, that this all became political.
The "flatten the curve" (the original goal..... and a damn worthy one) became "saving lives". That wasn't the deal. We can save lives by saying we can only use public transport.
It then became Republican v Democrat and it's all fallen to shit. It does almost seem like a power grab now even if it's "good intentioned"
Guess we will see what's going on in a few weeks.
All that said....maybe breathe. They haven't locked us in our homes like in some other countries. The closing of business though.... that's pretty effing drastic.
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Taxexemption
Member
There are still craploads of homeless people in downtown Sacramento, don't talk to me about helping my fellow men. You don't care and neither do the people in charge, you just pretend to when it's convenient.
I don't think this suspension of freedom is temporary. I don't trust that a lockdown was actually a good idea, and if there is a good argument for this I've not heard it.
We still don't know much about covid 19 for sure, we are still unsure how it's spread, in my mind there is a fairly high probability we will find out far in the future this was the wrong approach and we actually made things worse and gave up our freedom and destroyed small businesses and caused suicides and more of us die from covid 19. We could be doing everything wrong and not know it for a year from now. If the lockdown lasts a year no one in government will ever admit it if it was a bad idea cause of the complete lack of trust it would create.
I don't think this suspension of freedom is temporary. I don't trust that a lockdown was actually a good idea, and if there is a good argument for this I've not heard it.
We still don't know much about covid 19 for sure, we are still unsure how it's spread, in my mind there is a fairly high probability we will find out far in the future this was the wrong approach and we actually made things worse and gave up our freedom and destroyed small businesses and caused suicides and more of us die from covid 19. We could be doing everything wrong and not know it for a year from now. If the lockdown lasts a year no one in government will ever admit it if it was a bad idea cause of the complete lack of trust it would create.
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D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That's what frustrates me about so many people who speak with such conviction about how we're "saving lives" with this current approach that really was only decided based on projections and opinions from experts who are not infallible, as if everyone questioning what's going on right now is anti-science or some other bullshit.
llien
Banned
Good "vaccine status" blog:
blogs.sciencemag.org
A Close Look at the Frontrunning Coronavirus Vaccines As of May 1 (updated) | In the Pipeline
There’s plenty of news on the coronavirus vaccine front, so let’s have a look. If you need some details on the different sorts of vaccines in general, here’s the background post, which should help this one make sense. This is a rapidly advancing field, with a huge number of programs. Some of the...
blogs.sciencemag.org
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Well, I'm not going to call you naive, but I lean more in the direction of your friends. I firmly believe there are plenty of factions vying for power who would absolutely love to take away a great many of the freedoms we enjoy and there's no better time than a crisis to try and sneak those kind of things through.
There is no controlling a virus like this unless you want to completely alter your society and implement rigid surveillance measures. We're already seeing those kind of things be seriously proposed in this country and I do not see those things ever going away (or being used exclusively for COVID-19 tracking) once implemented.
Silent Viper
Banned
Oh god end this corona shit. I can't take it anymore. Lockdown killing me.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I've never ever felt that way. There are countries out there that don't allow freedoms. We have plenty, and I've seen no indication we are going to become Saudi Arabia any time soon.
People aren't allowed to do certain things for a few months. That in itself sucks, the whole situation blows. But in terms of the freedoms stuff, I really don't get where all this is coming from. In a few months lockdowns we'll end and we'll all go back to normal.
rykomatsu
Member
No - you have governors that are using this opportunity to "reenvision society". You have governors curtailing citizen's rights with no concrete plan on a return to normalcy date. You have governors basically stating that they are the law, but when questioned about why these laws are not being enforced on their own families, they have the gall to say "how dare you bring up my family". You have politicians trying to shove green new deal like policies through when they have absolutely nothing to do with COVID-19. What did Clinton say recently when endorsing Biden? Never let a crisis go to waste? There's absolutely no indication that "we'll all go back to normal".
The longer this lasts, the more difficult it will be for politicians to give up their new found power.
If you think we all go back to normal, I have some volcano insurance to sell you.
Smiles and Cries
Member
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
More from the same guy in The Times. I'll quote because of the paywall.
The science is becoming clear: lockdowns are no longer the right medicine
When reports emerged of an epidemic in Wuhan, the capital of China’s Hubei province, policy-makers had to make far-reaching decisions based on extremely limited information. Terrifying statistics led many global leaders to shut their economies and quarantine entire populations.The World Health Organ
www.thetimes.co.uk
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
This is doomsday prepper esque stuff. They are not trying to reenvision society they're trying to stop a virus from spreading. Nothing more. This reeks of paranoia. It's hard to have a concrete plan with so many variables. Once it is deemed the threat is under control and/or the testing improves, things will return as they were. Bit by bit.
I don't even know what society they'd be reenvisioning. An unsustainable one? If things continue on our society is going to collapse. The economy can't sustain this way. What do you think they're trying to envision exactly? A society without jobs, tons of homeless and business that can't open? You think they're coming after the beaches for... who knows what?
There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that this is some grand scheme by people in power to seize power and use this virus as a means to strip away all your freedoms. And Im open minded guy who is willing to listen to anything on any subject, but I'm sorry this stuff is conspiracy theory Alex Jones crackpot stuff.
All this stuff has happened before throughout time. Viruses come. Quarantines are put into place, virus leaves and everyone goes back to normal. Relax.
JORMBO
Darkness no more
My dad said he has the flu and won't get tested. My sister who is a nurse told him to get tested since flu isn't too common at this time. Stubborn old people. Luckily he said he started feeling better after a few days. My mom said he was doing yard work this weekend and she isn't feeling sick at all herself.
For the conversation above I don't think this is some sort of power grab. In a lot of areas they are keeping things locked down longer then needed in my opinion. I think everyone is just scared of being the one that opens up too quickly and then having problems. We know a lot more about the virus and it's not as deadly as we originally believed, but it's hard to say what will happen as things open. It's either smart leadership or dumb leadership based on which spectrum you fall into.
For the conversation above I don't think this is some sort of power grab. In a lot of areas they are keeping things locked down longer then needed in my opinion. I think everyone is just scared of being the one that opens up too quickly and then having problems. We know a lot more about the virus and it's not as deadly as we originally believed, but it's hard to say what will happen as things open. It's either smart leadership or dumb leadership based on which spectrum you fall into.
Yup , but it could take 2 years with some kind of restrictions in place.
ricardo_sousa11
Member
This thread is gold, it should be saved for future studies on quarentine and outbreaks.
this is the problem, the virus isnt deadly enough, and this is sad, we will not survive the next one. Do not think we overreacted, it didnt get worst because we payed the highest price, we stopped everything, this is why, not the otherway around.
this is just the beginning
this is the problem, the virus isnt deadly enough, and this is sad, we will not survive the next one. Do not think we overreacted, it didnt get worst because we payed the highest price, we stopped everything, this is why, not the otherway around.
this is just the beginning
JordanN
Banned
Even though we survived deadlier plagues in the past (i.e Spanish Flu, Bubonic)? Modern medicine and technology will prevent that.
What's going to happen is we're just going to have to readjust businesses and society at large to enforce more public distancing so if people do get sick, at least we can keep transmission levels at a minimum.
I'm even reading this could even affect future urban plans. Like not having so many condos being built right next to each other.
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ricardo_sousa11
Member
This is the most significant example in modern history, it has killed hundreds of thousands of people and used literally all our cards. Yet we know we cant deal with this for longer than 1-2months before we start flipping our heads And going crazy for our freedoms and rights...hell i dont even think we are ready for winter, it will be slaughter if all the expert models are correct.
None of the models have been correct so far. So why would they suddenly be now?
Hell my county claimed, via a model, we'd have 60,000 infections in the county by today. We have 2,000. CA claimed half of the state would be infected. We have 50K out of 40 million.
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darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
I'm a gamer, I don't walk outside no matter what.
Taxexemption
Member
JordanN
Banned
That only looks scary out of context.
It's not killing hundreds of thousands per country. And when you break the numbers down further, it's still mostly the elderly or those with already existing health conditions that are dying.
Russia is a very interesting case. 100,000+ cases but it actually has one of the fewest deaths.
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Insane Metal
Member
The US just reported its deadliest day for coronavirus patients as states reopen, according to WHO
Dozens of states have unveiled reopening plans and several, including Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas, have already begun to allow nonessential retailers to reopen.
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