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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

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BigBooper

Member
I'd hoped for the J&J one, but the spots are already taken and no one knows when our area will get more. Apparently they didn't get very many. So my pharmacy is probably going to give me the first Moderna one instead tomorrow. Supposed to get an appointment in the morning.

I have fragile people around me constantly so I felt the moral obligation to do it, but I don't have to like it.
 

Aarbron

Member
More results to make the EU look like the cunts they are...



The US cunts have their own sceptics.

Seriously though, this vaccine is just too tainted now politically.

 
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Hulk_Smash

Banned
When are we thinking this pandemic will end? Or at least become enough of a non issue it is indistinguishable from a declared official medical end. I've been saying domestically early-mid summer, worldwide fall 2021. Late 2021. What are we thinking here? Realistic, optimistic, pessimistic just lay your takes on me.
Domestically for me it’s pretty much over. Less than 1,000 cases in my state of 10,000,000 and still dropping every day. More importantly hospitalizations are also dropping at the same rate.

I honestly believe the politicians and mask Karens will carry this on long after it’s been over. So it will be up to you how you choose to live your life.

As Andy Dufrane said, “Get busy livin’ or get busy dyin’.”
 

llien

Member


Very happy with this. The less power the EU has over distribution of the vaccinations, the better.

Given 10 million vaccines went from EU to UK alone and zero vaccines have left UK heading in any direction, it's not EU who is in the wrong here.
AZ can't even formulate the rules they are following, "first ordered - first served" clearly isn't a thing either as they tried to sneak stuff out of EU into Australia who ordered later.
 

llien

Member
Italian press trying to stir up shit:




Italy might not know for sure where it was heading (even that would be weird, though, given how logistics work), but transparency in handling vaccine export was a clear demand from the authorities and AZ hiding it (if they did) no matter where it was heading, shows what really is going on.



La Stampa website says some 29 million vaccine doses due to be shipped to the UK were being stored at the Catalent plant in Anagni near Rome but were discovered by Italian inspectors as part of an investigation by the European Commission.

What the Commission is planning​

The tougher export controls are most like to affect vaccine-exporting countries that have higher vaccination rates than the EU, such as the UK and US.
The key criteria for the proposed regulations are "reciprocity" and "proportionality":
  • The EU says there is no reciprocity if a country importing vaccines from the EU restricts exports itself either by law or other means, so "it may be appropriate to consider whether exports to this country are justified"
  • Member states and the Commission will also consider the epidemiological situation in that non-EU country, its vaccination rate and existing availability of Covid-19 vaccines.

EU is the biggest vaccine exporter in the world, it had exported 43 million doses at this point.
US and UK have exported zero.
 
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Jezbollah

Member
That's the thing though. With it's contract with AZ, the UK doesnt need to export any right now. They have first option on any produced in this country. Once the population has been fully vaccinated, this will change. If the UK wasn't expecting any shipment (as quoted by the UK government source) then who is lying here? The UK's supply line for OAZ from the EU is from the Netherlands.

The moment the EU starts restricting exports (and this is crucial with the Pfizer vaccine, the UK doesnt manifacture that) then the UK is in it's rights to stop exporting the vaccine ingredients. Then no vaccines get produced in the EU.

Now, if anyone wants to point me to the outrage at the news of this shipment being found, and it for certain being earmarked for the UK, then let us know. Otherwise I'm inclined to believe it's yet another hit piece on the UK and Astrazenica by the EU, who remain sat on millions of doses of the vaccine yet to be administered.

One thing is for certain now. This latest, looks-to-be-yet-another-smear by the EU has just proven that they're sitting on a whole lot more Astrazenica stock that they had ever disclosed. Now who looks even worse?

Edit:


Astrazenica have stated that out of the 29 million found, 16 million were for the EU, 13 million were for COVAX.

Funny, that.
 
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llien

Member

Astrazenica have stated that out of the 29 million found, 16 million were for the EU, 13 million were for COVAX.
13 million heading to COVAX were supposed to be declared.

Once the population has been fully vaccinated, this will change.
This is literally "once we don't need it"

That's the thing though. With it's contract with AZ, the UK doesnt need to export any right now. They have first option on any produced in this country.
So, UK has the first option.
EU, on the other hand, does not.

EU let 43 million doses out, ten of them to UK.
UK let 0. (any direction)

I'm missing some nuance here.

The moment the EU starts restricting exports (and this is crucial with the Pfizer vaccine, the UK doesnt manifacture that) then the UK is in it's rights to stop exporting the vaccine ingredients. Then no vaccines get produced in the EU.
This assumes EU somehow has 100% dependency on UK ingredients.
Who said that was the case?

Nationalism aside, there is fair/unfair aspect to it.
I fail to see how to view UK's take as fair.
 
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Jezbollah

Member
"- 13 million heading to COVAX were supposed to be declared." - Irelevant. Where was it noted that the 29 million were all meant for the UK? Yes or no - was this was misreported? This misreporting has shown that the EU has way more doses of OAZ than was disclosed before.

"- this is literally "once we don't need it" - so? The UK invested into their own manifacturing facilities and the trials for OAZ - it wouldnt be here now if it wasnt for UK taxpayer money. Ergo, the contract and options They had a contract agreed in May last year with these options. This is how business works. The EU first started their war against Astrazenica when they realised their own contract was inferior in terms of priority and options over the UKs. The UK is a partner agreement, the EU's a customer. The EU cannot accept this.

"So, UK has the first option.
EU, on the other hand, does not.

EU let 43 million doses out, ten of them to UK.
UK let 0. (any direction)

I'm missing some nuance here." - No, you're missing the fact that the UK is using all the vaccine it is producing. The EU isnt doing it. It's sitting on 20 million doses because of their incompetance and their leaders tarnishing the reputation of the vaccine. That's on the EU, not the UK. If the EU block exporting of the OAZ vaccine to any country as part of a contract, they are responsible for that contract not being satisfied. Is that fair?

"This assumes EU somehow has 100% dependency on UK ingredients.
Who said that was the case?" - irrevant. To make the vaccine you need *all* the ingredients. The UK produces ingredients used in both Pfizer and OAZ within the EU. Thus if they do not have all components, they cant make either.

"Nationalism aside, there is fair/unfair aspect to it.
I fail to see how to view UK's take as fair." - no, the UK take is based upon agreed contracts. The same agreed contracts the EU keeps bleeting about. If you don't see the UK as fair in assuming that an agreed upon contact needs to be satisfied, then you by all definition must say that the EU's position on the contacts, that they believe all contracts should be satisfied, but have already stopped from doing so (the 250k shipment for Australia from Italy), is not fair either. Is that the case?

Edit: I'll leave it to former health and foreign secretary, Jeremy Hunt (who is pro-EU) to summarise:

 
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llien

Member
"- 13 million heading to COVAX were supposed to be declared." - Irelevant.
As "irrelevant" as catching someone lying is.
Which is, wait for it, quite relevant.

Where was it noted that the 29 million were all meant for the UK? Yes or no - was this was misreported? This misreporting has shown that the EU has way more doses of OAZ than was disclosed before.
Reporting was done by... wait for it... reporters. Of lavanguardia.

We can blame Ursula, if you insist, I dislike her too.

Note that we only have statement by AZ on what it is and where it was heading. A company that was caught lying.

"- this is literally "once we don't need it" - so? The UK invested into their own manifacturing facilities and the trials for OAZ - it wouldnt be here now if it wasnt for UK taxpayer money.
That's not true.
And, for starters, EU invested too.

The EU first started their war against Astrazenica when they realised their own contract was inferior in terms of priority and options over the UKs.
You state it as if there was some concise statement not up to interpretations.
Or if EU would be fine with that kind of "interpretation" at the moment it was signing it (Pfizer was already there with promising candidate).

The EU isnt doing it. It's sitting on 20 million doses because of their incompetance and their leaders tarnishing the reputation of the vaccine.
US is sitting on half a hundred million. And gets imports from EU on top of it.

As for "incompetence": I feel myself better when I see that government is not hiding shit from me.

The number of unused AZ jabs is exaggerated, but that's a secondary detail anyhow.

The UK produces ingredients used in both Pfizer and OAZ within the EU. Thus if they do not have all components, they cant make either.
They can't make either only if there are no alternative sources for it.

UK take is based upon agreed contracts
UK take is based on flip-flop-it-fits-me-better-this-way interpretation of the contracts.
Just something being in the contracts doesn't make it fair.
Last, but not least "I need to honor those who invested/buy first" has been breached by AZ, when they tried to sneak 250k vaccines from Italy to Australia.
So even in flip-floping this situation is not consistent.

EU being the #1 exporter of vaccines is a fact.
UK having exported zero jabs is another one.

foreign secretary, Jeremy Hunt
I don't know who that guy is, and I don't care what he thinks either.
 

Jezbollah

Member
That's not true.
And, for starters, EU invested too.

I'm only going to respond to this. I've already posted content in this extensive thread on the extent to the level of how the UK government orchestrated the Oxford University/Astrazenica arrangement, how the UK government provided logistics to aid the phase 2 and 3 trials and create manifacturing infrastructure, and how the UK/OAZ contract, and it's options came to be. If you cannot prove this not to be true, then this will be your last response from me from anything you post on this site going forward - your position will be established as being in bad faith as far as I'm concerned.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
While the EU and UK are fighting like the Real Housewives of Albion, the US is going to hit herd immunity by May or June at this rate.

CHTyX74.png
OY3DPQT.png
 

llien

Member
I'm only going to respond to this. I've already posted content in this extensive thread on the extent to the level of how the UK government orchestrated the Oxford University/Astrazenica arrangement, how the UK government provided logistics to aid the phase 2 and 3 trials and create manifacturing infrastructure, and how the UK/OAZ contract, and it's options came to be. If you cannot prove this not to be true, then this will be your last response from me from anything you post on this site going forward - your position will be established as being in bad faith as far as I'm concerned.
Feel free to respond only to what you have something like an argument against.

Phase 3 trial was not even remotely UK exclusive.
The implied claim of UK government "creating manufacturing infrastructure" worldwide is outrageous.

This comes with connotation of faux execution superiority of Boris's government.
Of all, he was the noisiest indeed.
Yet German Biontech was the company that delivered non-traditional vaccine (ramping up production is way more challenging) and was the first in the vaccine race. It has higher efficacy too.
I hope this had not happened at the cost of UK tax payers...

I personally do not care about AZ, but zero jabs leaving UK, production issues somehow mainly hitting EU and, at the same time, EU continuing exports of the superior Pfizer vaccine does not feel like adding up.
 

GamingKaiju

Member
EU is the biggest vaccine exporter in the world, it had exported 43 million doses at this point.

Yes one of the worlds biggest vaccine maker's is about to seize the means of production and impose strict export quotas to highly vaccinated Country's even if they had a hand in creating the damn thing or paid for it or not.

Kinda a bad look no?

US and UK have exported zero.

Weird comparison dude, like super crazy. The US has a huge industrial capacity, far greater than the UK's but you lump us together? that's a stretch and a half mate.


So, UK has the first option.
EU, on the other hand, does not.

I mean the EU doesn't even want the O/AZ vaccine rite? It's not like ineffective Macron told everyone that it was shit and it didn't work and people are turning it down because of how the media portrayed this vaccine. The very same vaccine that you are now bitching over.


EU let 43 million doses out, ten of them to UK.
UK let 0. (any direction)

I'm missing some nuance here.

Nuance? When you keep making false statements and again with the weird comparisons as by your own words "EU is the biggest vaccine exporter in the world" that you then compare it to the UK which has very little industrial complex but complain about reciprocity?

It has higher efficacy too.
I hope this had not happened at the cost of UK tax payers...

I personally do not care about AZ, but zero jabs leaving UK, production issues somehow mainly hitting EU and, at the same time, EU continuing exports of the superior Pfizer vaccine does not feel like adding up.

So your argument is that the UK hasn't exported enough vaccines, despite having very little industrial complex, a vaccine which has poor efficacy according to you. This at a time when Europe is getting swamped in a third wave of the Kent variant a variant that, as tests have shown the O/AZ vaccine actually has similar if not better efficacy then the "superior" Pfizer one but your in here bitching about the UK not exporting enough? and you are asking for nuance?

Grow the fuck up mate the EU screwed the pooch on the vaccine roll out and your in here projecting that it is the UK that is the bad guy, yeh the UK put in a supply us first clause, So fucking what?

Historically Europe has always had a anti-vax movement and at a time when vaccine uptake is much needed the most important people in the EU go out and shit all over a vaccine, the same vaccine that could be beneficial in fighting Europe's third wave right now.... OWN FUCKING GOAL!
 
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llien

Member
Yes one of the worlds biggest vaccine maker's is about to seize the means of production and impose strict export quotas to highly vaccinated Country's even if they had a hand in creating the damn thing or paid for it or not.

Kinda a bad look no?
EU didn't get jabs that were promised, yet let 43 million out.
US let out 0.
So did UK.

So, kinda... you were saying?

That "hand" in "creating the damn thing"... are you serious? So should EU stop exporting Pfizer-Biontech jabs instead, as it was created by a German company?

Weird comparison dude, like super crazy. The US has a huge industrial capacity, far greater than the UK's but you lump us together? that's a stretch and a half mate.
Both countries are swimming in jabs, both export zero.
Yet both get jabs from EU.

The difference, though, is, the numbers. US got like 1 million from EU. UK got 10.

I mean the EU doesn't even want the O/AZ vaccine rite? It's not like ineffective Macron told everyone that it was shit and it didn't work and people are turning it down because of how the media portrayed this vaccine. The very same vaccine that you are now bitching over.
I personally perceive it as "poor man's vaccine". It is much less effective. Extremely rarely, but it seems to kill.
So I personally would only be interested in Pfizer-Biontech jabs being held.
I'm not EU, though.

Nuance? When you keep making false statements and again with the weird comparisons as by your own words "EU is the biggest vaccine exporter in the world" that you then compare it to the UK which has very little industrial complex but complain about reciprocity?
Number of vaccines per population shows who has surplus vaccines.
AZ failed to deliver what it promised to EU. Yet it grabbed stuff produced in EU "because UK contracts".
But then it grabbed another bunch and tried to deliver it to Australia, despite EU contracts.

Contracts seem to work in peculiar ways.
 

llien

Member
Kent variant a variant that, as tests have shown the O/AZ vaccine actually has similar if not better efficacy then the "superior" Pfizer
Would you mind sharing a link. (I'd appreciate a non-twitter one)

The rest of your post (the antivaxxer bit in particular) is... interesting, but probably not relevant.
 

llien

Member
And about "but 'vaccine manufacturing capacity'":

EU consumed about 40 million jabs.
Exported about 40 million jabs.

UK consumed 30+ million.
Exported zero.

So, no, it's not EU here being selfish.
The "because contracts" argument is ridiculous.
 

GamingKaiju

Member
EU didn't get jabs that were promised, yet let 43 million out.
US let out 0.
So did UK.

So, kinda... you were saying?

That "hand" in "creating the damn thing"... are you serious? So should EU stop exporting Pfizer-Biontech jabs instead, as it was created by a German company?


Both countries are swimming in jabs, both export zero.
Yet both get jabs from EU.

The difference, though, is, the numbers. US got like 1 million from EU. UK got 10.


I personally perceive it as "poor man's vaccine". It is much less effective. Extremely rarely, but it seems to kill.
So I personally would only be interested in Pfizer-Biontech jabs being held.
I'm not EU, though.


Number of vaccines per population shows who has surplus vaccines.
AZ failed to deliver what it promised to EU. Yet it grabbed stuff produced in EU "because UK contracts".
But then it grabbed another bunch and tried to deliver it to Australia, despite EU contracts.

Contracts seem to work in peculiar ways.

I never said the UK should stop exporting don't play that game pls

I'm merely pointing out the strawman argument you are making here by comparing UK,US,EU industrial complex when the UK has bugger all industry output, your next post:

EU consumed about 40 million jabs.
Exported about 40 million jabs.

UK consumed 30+ million.
Exported zero.

Exactly the EU has the ability to make more than 40 million jabs the UK simply doesn't have the capacity and is probably is filling in gaps in the market but between the EU and US we just just can't compete. It's such a strange position to have to be pissed about AZ nabbing shipments from the EU and sending them to Aus, UK where they'll get used rather than sit around unused in an EU vax centre and we know about UK manufacturing and I believe the UK is building a vaccine super factory so we should be able to start exporting soon but we're a little behind on vaccine producing factories.

Would you mind sharing a link. (I'd appreciate a non-twitter one)

The rest of your post (the antivaxxer bit in particular) is... interesting, but probably not relevant.

It is very relevant given our current circumstances wouldn't you say?

I provided a link in another post to you in this very thread your welcome to go back and find it.
 
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Jezbollah

Member
Feel free to respond only to what you have something like an argument against.

Phase 3 trial was not even remotely UK exclusive.
The implied claim of UK government "creating manufacturing infrastructure" worldwide is outrageous.

This comes with connotation of faux execution superiority of Boris's government.
Of all, he was the noisiest indeed.
Yet German Biontech was the company that delivered non-traditional vaccine (ramping up production is way more challenging) and was the first in the vaccine race. It has higher efficacy too.
I hope this had not happened at the cost of UK tax payers...

I personally do not care about AZ, but zero jabs leaving UK, production issues somehow mainly hitting EU and, at the same time, EU continuing exports of the superior Pfizer vaccine does not feel like adding up.

1) I never stated that the phase 3 trial was UK exclusive. I know that they also extended it to South Africa and Brazil.
2) I never stated that the UK government "created manifacturing infrastructure" worldwide. They did in the UK, where they provisioned two facilities to make the UK supply chains of OAZ. I know that the UK only had a small facility to make vaccines before then - located near liverpool, and focused on UK Flu jab supply - and before Oxford University even reached out to do a deal with AZ.

Since you feel the need to put words in my mouth as a response, and have failed to provide proof of the non-involvement of the UK Government in the Phase 3 trials via logistics, and the provisioning of the two manifacturing facilities, it's clear you are discussing this subject in bad faith. Enjoy the rest of the thread.
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
Riverside County in CA has fired their pro-lockdown public health officer.

They almost did this a year ago when he was pushing the Newsom propaganda, but now he's axxed:
 

llien

Member
I never said the UK should stop exporting don't play that game pls
How do you "stop exporting" when you are not exporting?

Exactly the EU has the ability to make more than 40 million jabs the UK simply doesn't have the capacity
This is... a weird way to look at things, eh?
EU has 400+ million citizens.
It exported half of what it produced.
It barely covered 10% of population.

UK covered about half, exported zero.
The "but production capacity" argument is moot.

I provided a link in another post to you in this very thread your welcome to go back and find it.
No, thanks.
 

llien

Member
I never stated that the UK government "created manifacturing infrastructure" worldwide. They did in the UK, where they provisioned two facilities to make the UK supply chains of OAZ.
Good to know, that evil Europeans are not getting any benefit from UK taxpayer money spent on boosting AZ production capacity in UK!
Also nice that evil fuckers spent EU taxpayer money on boosting capacity in EU, so that EU is able to deliver jabs to UK.

proof of the non-involvement of the UK Government in the Phase 3 trials
I don't recall who, or where, or why, on freaking planet Earth, has ever pretended, that all that noisy stuff glorious Boris was doing was in any way relevant. I know it wasn't me.

Western governments helped boost vaccine production and, if anything, Trumpkin deserves lion's share of the credit, dumping 2 billion USD on literally nobody (Biontech) back in mid summer and for the whole Warp Speed program in general.

As for "I've never said it was worldwide", the argument only applied had it been global.
 
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GamingKaiju

Member
How do you "stop exporting" when you are not exporting?


This is... a weird way to look at things, eh?
EU has 400+ million citizens.
It exported half of what it produced.
It barely covered 10% of population.

UK covered about half, exported zero.
The "but production capacity" argument is moot.


No, thanks.

You are so disingenuous. The argument is moot to you because you are defending the EUs aggressive stance its taken on seizing vaccine exports.

The EU is in the wrong here it has taken a spat with a company that operates inside and outside the EUs borders and has weaponised it against the U.K. not only are the EU are acting in bad faith but it’s leaders have also taken to dissing said vaccine a vaccine that you’re not bothered about but here you are complaining about the U.K. not exporting enough despite been on the doorstep and upto recently politically entangled to the biggest vaccine producer in the world. Again your own words.
 
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D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member


It's all about control and forcing your will on people.

Searching "Cruz refuses to wear mask" sure does give some sad fucking results. The absolute state of journalism in 2021...
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
It's all about control and forcing your will on people.

Searching "Cruz refuses to wear mask" sure does give some sad fucking results. The absolute state of journalism in 2021...

Just more proof they're going to try to mask shame people even when fully vaccinated.
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
They tell you not to take pain relievers before the vaccine because it might alter the immune response. They don’t know if it does or not, they just said to err on the side of caution. One of my relatives takes a daily aspirin, but they take it super early in the morning and very low dose, so I’m not sure if taking it 15 hours before the shot matters or not.

They just said “don’t take it before” before could mean anything from 5 minutes, an hour or 24 hours, who the fuck knows.
 
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llien

Member
You are so disingenuous. The argument is moot to you because you are defending the EUs aggressive stance its taken on seizing vaccine exports.
This is so weak it hurts.

The EU is in the wrong here it has taken a spat with a company that operates inside and outside the EUs borders and has weaponised it against the U.K. not only are the EU are acting in bad faith but it’s leaders have also taken to dissing said vaccine a vaccine that you’re not bothered about but here you are complaining about the U.K. not exporting enough despite been on the doorstep and upto recently politically entangled to the biggest vaccine producer in the world. Again your own words.
There is NO SINGLE LEVEL on which UK/AZ actions are fair.
Not a single damn one.

Let's start with moral:
UK is filled jabs, EU doesn't get promised jabs from the same company, yet keeps exporting it to UK in millions. Uh oh doh.
EU is TIMES behind on vaccination, still exports about half of what is produced there, UK exports zero.

Now to the "but muh contract":
EU had a choice.
Do you think, they'd order as many jabs from AZ, had they known the way jabs would be handled this way?

And to the "Boris magically boosted Vaccine development" don't we deserve more:
Note that AZ is a traditional vaccine that had been in works.
What Biontech did was neither nor.
Yet Biontech was the first to cross the finish line.
Was it again Boris?

and to the "Boris boosted UK production capacity" don't we deserve to get more:
UK is already getting ALL stuff produced by AZ in UK.
Did Boris boost EU production capacity?

and the "Fake issues with Astrazenica vaccine":
1) 2 young dead women in Germany (1.6m jabs administered)
2) dead nurse in Georgia (Republic of), 27 years old, about 3k jabs administered. To make it even more embarrassing, she was promoting vaccination 30 mins before falling into coma.
3) dead 31 y.o. dude in one of the Baltic states

#1 German investigation concluded that AZ is likely causing a very rare form of thrombosis.
But as event is rare, still deemed AZ brings more benefit, than harm, resumed vaccination.
#2 Could be a fuckup by medical personell (not handling allergic reaction in a timely manner)
#3 Investigation is ongoing, symptoms as in #1

Of course it's a complicated business, of course even if you give pure water to millions of people, some will die. This, however, is not a tabloid level nonsense, but actual verified facts.

And now, ask yourself, given a choice to:
1) Wait and get vaccine without known problems of this kind
2) Take your chances with "maybe kills a couple out of a million" vaccine

and if you think this is a theoretical question for me: my mother (who, truth be told, is more into anti-vaccine camp, than not) outright refused to even consider AZ, after events #1, #2, #3.
So whom should I blame? Ursula? Merkel? Reporters?
 

Jezbollah

Member
They tell you not to take pain relievers before the vaccine because it might alter the immune response. They don’t know if it does or not, they just said to err on the side of caution. One of my relatives takes a daily aspirin, but they take it super early in the morning and very low dose, so I’m not sure if taking it 15 hours before the shot matters or not.

They just said “don’t take it before” before could mean anything from 5 minutes, an hour or 24 hours, who the fuck knows.

I think the general guidance is not to take anything that might contain anti-inflammatories. We were specifically told to take paracetomol but not ibuprofen. But yeah - "don't take it before" is about as useful as a "how long is a piece of string" when it comes to medical guidance..
 

llien

Member
Something something, win-win, something, friendly, something:
Joint statement by the European Commission and Her Majesty's Government on cooperation in fighting the COVID-19 pandemic

Under the Commission's plan, the principles of "proportionality and reciprocity" will be incorporated into the transparency mechanism that was introduced at the end of January and will assess "case by case" the export requests from pharmaceutical companies.
The Commission says the EU is the only vaccine producer of the OECD exporting to countries that have production capacities of their own, without enjoying reciprocity in return.

Video summit takes place today, Biden is expected to join at some point:
 
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GamingKaiju

Member
Something something, win-win, something, friendly, something:
Joint statement by the European Commission and Her Majesty's Government on cooperation in fighting the COVID-19 pandemic

Under the Commission's plan, the principles of "proportionality and reciprocity" will be incorporated into the transparency mechanism that was introduced at the end of January and will assess "case by case" the export requests from pharmaceutical companies.
The Commission says the EU is the only vaccine producer of the OECD exporting to countries that have production capacities of their own, without enjoying reciprocity in return.

Video summit takes place today, Biden is expected to join at some point:

Whilst I appreciate the change in tone and the offer to be more diplomatic given the current circumstances it was very silly to begin with and could have been avoided, it was needless rhetoric and sabre rattling and paints a bad image I just hope that Europeans take up the vaccine, whichever one it is so they avoid a 4th wave and more deaths.
 

Jezbollah

Member
So I just got back from taking my mum to the vaccination centre for her second shot of Pfizer. I was keen to see the kind of setup they had, if they were vaccinating over 50s, if they were having to cater for both shots etc.

Nope, the whole vaccination centre was just for her age group, 100% for second shots of Pfizer. It's almost a repeat of what we saw at late January when I took her for her first jab. So I'm expecting the second shot numbers to ramp up considerably from now on like the first shot numbers did back then.
 

FireFly

Member
And now, ask yourself, given a choice to:
1) Wait and get vaccine without known problems of this kind
2) Take your chances with "maybe kills a couple out of a million" vaccine

Well, a 1 in a million chance of dying is classified as micromort. Just by going about your life, you are exposed to around 1 micromort a day, from non-natural causes.


So, if getting a vaccine adds a few micromorts, I don't think it's a big deal. On the other hand, with a 0.5% chance of dying, if you get infected that's 5000 micromorts. If you're over 80, it looks like the risk is ~5%, so that's 50,000 micromorts. If you're in that highly vulnerable group and the daily risk of getting infected is 1/5000 say, then you're adding 10 micromorts every day that you wait for the "perfect" vaccine. That's like going skydiving every day.
 

Elog

Member
Whilst I appreciate the change in tone and the offer to be more diplomatic given the current circumstances it was very silly to begin with and could have been avoided, it was needless rhetoric and sabre rattling and paints a bad image I just hope that Europeans take up the vaccine, whichever one it is so they avoid a 4th wave and more deaths.
Not sure why you state that. Right now the EU is the sucker. The US has an export ban. The UK has a de facto export ban as part of their AZ agreement. The EU has not had any. And somehow the EU is a bad entity because it was thinking of implementing something that the US and the UK already has in place? I understand that the UK is in the hands of crazy nation centred tabloids but one would hope that reason at least at times would prevail.
 

llien

Member
Well, a 1 in a million chance of dying is classified as micromort. Just by going about your life, you are exposed to around 1 micromort a day, from non-natural causes.


So, if getting a vaccine adds a few micromorts, I don't think it's a big deal. On the other hand, with a 0.5% chance of dying, if you get infected that's 5000 micromorts. If you're over 80, it looks like the risk is ~5%, so that's 50,000 micromorts. If you're in that highly vulnerable group and the daily risk of getting infected is 1/5000 say, then you're adding 10 micromorts every day that you wait for the "perfect" vaccine. That's like going skydiving every day.

Let's put it into perspective, shell we.
Say one out of 10 million M&M sweets is deadly.
Is that micromorty enough?

Whilst I appreciate the change in tone and the offer to be more diplomatic given the current circumstances it was very silly to begin with and could have been avoided, it was needless rhetoric and sabre rattling and paints a bad image I just hope that Europeans take up the vaccine, whichever one it is so they avoid a 4th wave and more deaths.
Damage has been done. Shitty play has already happened, lessons have been learned.
 

GamingKaiju

Member
Not sure why you state that. Right now the EU is the sucker. The US has an export ban. The UK has a de facto export ban as part of their AZ agreement. The EU has not had any. And somehow the EU is a bad entity because it was thinking of implementing something that the US and the UK already has in place? I understand that the UK is in the hands of crazy nation centred tabloids but one would hope that reason at least at times would prevail.

I mean the EU have engaged in dangerous rhetoric here and gone off the rails. The U.K. has stayed quiet, UK gov yesterday even warned against banning exports.

The U.K. has only small industrial capacity to the EU/US and we are maintaining our commitments to the Covax scheme. The U.K. has invested in another vaccine factory so we can contribute more. Ofc the demands of vaccines is crazy right now but these shortages will be short lived and unfortunately the initial shortages of vaccines was always going to cause frustrations. Hence why I’m glad to see the EU has calmed down and decided to discuss options I think the gov is planning on donating extra vaccines to the EU to smooth things over.


The US stuff I’m not read up on.
 
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FireFly

Member
Let's put it into perspective, shell we.
Say one out of 10 million M&M sweets is deadly.
Is that micromorty enough?
Well, each bag contains around 200 M&Ms apparently. So 1/50,000 bags would kill you. Therefore if you eat a bag a day, that's 20 micromorts a day, which is like going sky diving or scuba diving twice a day.

The difference is that you only need to get vaccinated once (or twice if we're counting both doses). So if the bag of M&M's will also stop you from getting Covid, I think you should take it.
 

Elog

Member
I mean the EU have engaged in dangerous rhetoric here and gone off the rails. The U.K. has stayed quiet, UK gov yesterday even warned against banning exports.

The U.K. has only small industrial capacity to the EU/US and we are maintaining our commitments to the Covax scheme. The U.K. has invested in another vaccine factory so we can contribute more. Ofc the demands of vaccines is crazy right now but these shortages will be short lived and unfortunately the initial shortages of vaccines was always going to cause frustrations. Hence why I’m glad to see the EU has calmed down and decided to discuss options I think the gov is planning on donating extra vaccines to the EU to smooth things over.


The US stuff I’m not read up on.
But do you understand the frustration when the UK and the US has through various means have stopped vaccine exports - and I am not blaming anyone since the situation is quite dire - and then the UK government and newspapers uses fairly rough rhetoric vis-a-vis the EU when the EU considers dong the same? It is really a case of the pot calling kettle black.
 
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