Then what is the alternative? Is there one? Bioware just fucked up in the final moments of a trilogy they've been working on for 5 years and totally did not plan it out?
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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
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Then what is the alternative? Is there one? Bioware just fucked up in the final moments of a trilogy they've been working on for 5 years and totally did not plan it out?
Psychoward
Banned
Yes.
It's a badly scripted paradoxical statement, but it doesn't give way to indoctrination theory.
If the Catalyst truly wanted to preserve life, and thought it best to keep organics in the Reaper shells (all gushy inside), I don't think it's an impossibility for it to have devised that plan.
I personally think it's idiotic, but at least it confirms that the plan won't work anymore . . . simply because you appeared before it.
And they did it with intention. It was what they perceive high level discourse to be.
Yes. The indoctrination theory is orders of magnitude too intricate for the writers of this game and totally not in line with how the rest of the series has unfolded.
Psychoward
Banned
"High-level conversation" is one of the douchiest/most pretentious things I've ever heard. Grats, Mac/Casey.
Does it? Why couldn't the child have just not chose to bring Shepard up through the space magic elevator? It's not like Shepard got there completely of his own will at the end there. If the magic kid left things alone, Shepard would've died not accomplishing or finding out shit.
When an organic finds a way to actually get to where the magic kid is on his/her own, then that's the confirmation.
BTW; I do realize that you think the ending is stupid as shit...just going along with this.
Maybe bioware didn't want to hold the consumers hands and thought that enough pieces were laid out in the game for us to pick up.
I think one of the major flaws with this theory is that it is never presented, ever in the trilogy, that Shepard could have been indoctrinated. They never pose the question as to why Shepard hasn't been manipulated. In another perspective, because they never mention Shepard being indoctrinated, something that SHOULD have come up in the game, that bioware would assume that players would question why this was never brought up.
Gah, this is messy.
I think one of the major flaws with this theory is that it is never presented, ever in the trilogy, that Shepard could have been indoctrinated. They never pose the question as to why Shepard hasn't been manipulated. In another perspective, because they never mention Shepard being indoctrinated, something that SHOULD have come up in the game, that bioware would assume that players would question why this was never brought up.
Gah, this is messy.
Video game writers don't know what high-level discourse is.
No. We are talking about video games, people. You think the guys who wrote the dialogue for James Vega and conceived of Jacob Taylor pulled off something like IT? No way.
Only self-deluded cretins expel such nonsense. If one truly desires to write high-level, intellectual discourse one should be aware of one's own foolishness and write for purpose, not to impress.
Regardless of that, it renders what the magic kid said in those moments completely wrong. He didn't just "appear" there of his own will. It was obvious that Shepard was basically done for, then he magically floats up? That was of the magic kid's will, obviously.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Which one of you wrote this?
http://www.firstpost.com/tech/fan-outrage-why-the-mass-effect-3-ending-sucks-250998.html
Not everything, and not a place I've ever heard of, but at least they did a bit of research and realized the problem isn't really the lack of an Ewok dance party.
http://www.firstpost.com/tech/fan-outrage-why-the-mass-effect-3-ending-sucks-250998.html
Not everything, and not a place I've ever heard of, but at least they did a bit of research and realized the problem isn't really the lack of an Ewok dance party.
I'm sure it's been discussed but I've been in the denial phase, probably still in it but I'm starting to try and understand what BioWare was trying to accomplish.
What does choosing to control the Reapers do in the end? Space Child tells you Reapers are made to prevent synthetics from taking over the universe and wiping out all organics. Wouldn't Shepard controlling them either A) Keep them in dark space where the Reapers never return and thus, Synthetics wipe out all organics or B) The Reapers come back and what you spent two games trying to end just keeps happening.
Either way, you're indirectly contributing to what you've aimed to stop. The annihilation of organics.
What does choosing to control the Reapers do in the end? Space Child tells you Reapers are made to prevent synthetics from taking over the universe and wiping out all organics. Wouldn't Shepard controlling them either A) Keep them in dark space where the Reapers never return and thus, Synthetics wipe out all organics or B) The Reapers come back and what you spent two games trying to end just keeps happening.
Either way, you're indirectly contributing to what you've aimed to stop. The annihilation of organics.
Nothign is wrong with it. I fully support it, there are too many points that are valid to say otherwise in my eyes. My arguement in the Good destroy ending, you see Shepard breathe at the last second, he has to be on Earth, couldn't have survived the Citadel explosion. Has to all be a dream.
Dude was Indoctrinated and fought it off.
THEREFORE THE DLC WILL BE HIM WAKING UP AND WITH THE REST OF THE FUCKING GALAXY WHICH I SPENT HOURS ACCUMULATING FOR WAR ASSETS WILL FUCK UP HARBINGER THEREFORE RESULTING IN THE PROPER ENDING.
I don't give a shit if he lives or dies, or if it's a happy unicorn ending. Just give me the goddamn epic battle I deserve and not Marauder Shields, the dude's cool and all but come on
Uh.
Yeah?
I don't give a shit if he lives or dies, or if it's a happy unicorn ending. Just give me the goddamn epic battle I deserve and not Marauder Shields, the dude's cool and all but come on
You got your epic battle. In space and on earth. Not every game has to have some generic boss fight against a 20 story terminator robot.
lol
Bioware went for a quieter, more poignant ending. Too bad they screwed that up too.
Nothign is wrong with it. I fully support it, there are too many points that are valid to say otherwise in my eyes. My arguement in the Good destroy ending, you see Shepard breathe at the last second, he has to be on Earth, couldn't have survived the Citadel explosion. Has to all be a dream.
Dude was Indoctrinated and fought it off.
THEREFORE THE DLC WILL BE HIM WAKING UP AND WITH THE REST OF THE FUCKING GALAXY WHICH I SPENT HOURS ACCUMULATING FOR WAR ASSETS WILL FUCK UP HARBINGER THEREFORE RESULTING IN THE PROPER ENDING.
I don't give a shit if he lives or dies, or if it's a happy unicorn ending. Just give me the goddamn epic battle I deserve and not Marauder Shields, the dude's cool and all but come on
He's dead, Jim.
Psychoward
Banned
Only self-deluded cretins expel such nonsense. If one truly desires to write high-level, intellectual discourse one should be aware of one's own foolishness and write for purpose, not to impress.
Indeed fine chap, indeed.
The reapers never wanted to kill shepard, to control him and to exert their force to 'indoctrinate' him but Shepard consistently resisted, the three final choices represent the final chance of the reapers to show their control....I think
Man, I flip between denial and acceptance every 4 hours.
Good answer
Don't say that! BELIEVE!
Your issue is that the elevator on which Shep collapsed brought him/her up to meet the Catalyst? I think that's a non-issue. The elevator may have been ignited by the Crucible. I don't think it matters.
I think the very fact that the authors resorted to "space magic" should be enough to note that they didn't think too deeply about the conclusion.
That's it. There is no mystery, is just bad writing.
A couple of things we know:
- There's design "document" (sketch) in the Final Hours app that basically says they wanted "Lots of Speculation from Everyone". No indoctrination mentioned.
- On all of script leaks, there is no mention of indoctrination as in it was all an dream.
- We know from the leaks and comments, then at ME2, the plan was to use the Dark Energy ending, and that changed somewhere.
- From interviews we also know that they were finalizing the ending as of November of last year.
All of this points to end being what it is, a mess. On the other side you have people trying to find meaning in textures and reused game assets, from a company that used a stock photo for Tali's face.
^ Digoman speaking truth.
What do you want? You answered your own question. This has been discussed a thousand times in this thread. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.
Bioware isn't God. They're comprised of fallible people, who sometimes make mistakes and bet on the wrong horse. People who got a little too clever for their own good with their ending when they could have just rode out into the sunset if they wanted.
Why is so hard to accept that? To accept that it's a bad ending built upon by poor storytelling decisions? It seems a hell of a lot easier to take that on faith than constructing some grand conspiracy, assuming Bioware's mastery and deviousness in planning a non-ending that only a select few would understand.
Good answer
What do you want? You answered your own question. This has been discussed a thousand times in this thread. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.
Bioware isn't God. They're comprised of fallible people, who sometimes make mistakes and bet on the wrong horse. People who got a little too clever for their own good with their ending when they could have just rode out into the sunset if they wanted.
Why is so hard to accept that? To accept that it's a bad ending built upon by poor storytelling decisions? It seems a hell of a lot easier to take that on faith than constructing some grand conspiracy, assuming Bioware's mastery and deviousness in planning a non-ending that only a select few would understand.
I had almost forgotten about 1M1.
In the end of the day there will be four groups: people who accept the ending for what it's worth, those who will never accept it, those who believe in indoctrination, and those who are too far gone, even from the indoctrinated point of view.
That's why I hate the Indoctrination Theory it give Bioware too much fucking credit. They fucked up, they tried to get too clever, and it blew up in their face. I hate that some people seem to be trying their hardest to give Bioware a way out. A way where they can just say "Yeah. That's it. We planned that all along."
I love that song up until it turns into Dragon Age 2, or something.
Still, it reminds me of "The Last Man" from the Fountain. <3 (I've posted it several times in the other thread.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUgC6215Gko
They could make a DLC where the characters in the game make fun of people for wanting a happy ending. Ballsy.
I don't know. I don't think that's fair to say. Several people have commented on how well-written earlier scenes have been and how unfortunate it is to categorize those scenes with the last. Simply because the last ten minutes are a brain fart, doesn't invalidate the rest of the writing. It just makes it heartbreaking. The other writers should get angry at Mac.
Feedback is just a PR buzzword used to ask you how you really feel. (Draws images of rainbows and space magic.)
Altering the ending now would be like putting a band-aid on a shattered spine. It's not about the material content in the end, it's about how the writers of much-beloved franchise could self-destruct in such a manner. It's the utter disregard for storytelling and logic that we are presented with. In all honesty, it's unsettling and not much will help mitigate that.
Write as vague as possible to make everyone speculate.
100% chance that nothing will happen. They will not change the endings and will barely respond to the criticism.
I'm willing to bet a Steam game on it.
I personally think there is nothing that can do. The damage is already done and nothing they can do will undo that. I don't think there is even a chance they will redo it like some are hoping. I think at best they will just never mention it again and move on. What i am betting though is they will do no such thing and keep talking about the ending like it was the best ending they ever done. That seems to be Bioware's MO.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Nothing. They fucked up their own trilogy and that's it.
Net_Wrecker
Member
When in the game do those violins come in? I don't remember hearing those.
Clint Mansell always delivers. Always. Hell, I was listening to Moon's soundtrack while playing ME3.
I don't think a scene lasts long enough for the strings to start. Imagine that song with an appropriate and fitting ending.
Well, they can always stick this on masseffect3.com or bioware.com. I'm sure that'll make them feel better.
I'm willing to bet they'll put ME3 on Steam to sell it. I bet they're kicking themselves now, since unlike Amazon, Steam doesn't do refunds so easily.
I know it transitioned to the violin part during the clothes-on sex scene with Ashley just before the Cerberus base in my game.
I don't know. I don't think that's fair to say. Several people have commented on how well-written earlier scenes have been and how unfortunate it is to categorize those scenes with the last. Simply because the last ten minutes are a brain fart, doesn't invalidate the rest of the writing. It just makes it heartbreaking. The other writers should get angry at Mac.
There's definitely some good writing in video games, including a lot of Mass Effect. I've just read endings from people on this forum that were better than what we actually got.
Maybe the pressure of having to please everyone, and controlling the whole fate of a game that will be played by millions got to him.
I don't have Moon's soundtrack. I should acquire it sometime.
There, there.
/me pats you on the back.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I'm going with they are not going to change it, it's done and fucked forever... but if they do, they are keeping the ending as is, just adding another epilogue in which the fate of your squadmates is better explained, plus maybe, just maybe some other dialogue options to your conversation with the kid.
The ending fans want is not really possible, and the indoctrination theory (which mostly only works with the red ending btw) means they'd have to fully retcon their current ending, then have a completely new ending sequence, which could be another less vague series of videos, or a "final battle" with not that much voice acting unless they are going to throw a couple of millions at this thing, which is not going to happen.
So like I said, I'm guessing a video sequence at the end at most.
Love this song. Wish Hulick did more of the OST.
Psychoward
Banned
Sex scenes for the me3 squadmates
Yeah, now I remember Hulick said on Twitter once that they'd composed the former part for the relationship scenes and the latter for the culmination scenes. In any event, a great track, and it worked excellently with Liara's "leave capsules behind for the future" scene.