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[Metroidvania]

And we shouldn't have to think up something to fill in the plot holes or come up with something that makes the ending consistent.

This.

Anyone wanting a broad strokes ending that leaves EVERYTHING up to interpretation or speculation for the end of a trilogy, explain to me why you'd want to fill in ALL the gaps.

I don't mind bittersweet (although taking away options, be it happy, sad, or absolute failure doesn't sit well with me), but something like Return of the Jedi (the original), did a good job of closing the plot off while leaving things open for future happenings in the universe.

The only plot closed off in ME3 is the reapers are now either dead, under "shepard's control", or no longer care, since everyone is now synthetic. The only real closure we have is if the reapers are dead. If they're not, how do they interact with the universe? We're given zero nods in this direction other than them taking off from earth. All of those other plots are now left abruptly hanging, since your crew is stranded in god knows where and the massive war fleet is stuck in Sol system. There's so much more to the story we are simply told to "imagine' or "interpret".

That isn't an ending, that's a plot contrivance to abruptly close off the universe while simultaneously gutting it to such an extent that a game far in the future can avoid your ME1-3 decisions since the universe is in such disarray with the relays exploding.

 

[Rapstah]

The core looks like that, I guess, while the shell is grown around the core.

The designs in ME2's ending differ a lot. I guess following this pattern would have multiplied the cost of ME3's cut scenes though.

Side note: that one on the lower left from Harbinger is exactly the same design as the one the Illusive Man keeps having documents open of, as well as the one that you see as a hologram in the first N7 mission of the game. I'm pretty sure it's it.

EDIT: What the hell is lighting them up out there? They're supposedly thousands or at least hundreds of light years away from the galaxy.

 

[PinkCrayon]

EDIT: What the hell is lighting them up out there? They're supposedly thousands or at least hundreds of light years away from the galaxy.

haha, I think that can be forgiven as it would have just been a black screen without some light.

 

[hateradio]

EDIT: What the hell is lighting them up out there? They're supposedly thousands or at least hundreds of light years away from the galaxy.

Space magic.

 

[HadesGigas]

One thing the "extended" ending scenes need to add is this:



Anything less is a waste of time.

 

[- J - D -]

If you look at the ME2 art book (and the other art books as well I suppose), you'll find a few different designs for the Reaper core. I liked the one that looked like a distorted human fetus with Reaper circuitry embedded in its flesh. It was vaguely Thorian in appearance. Disturbing. It wasn't 'menacing' enough and couldn't fulfill certain requirements for combat, so the Terminator endoskeleton design was chosen instead. There's some logic to that, I suppose.

Another design had the undersides of a completed Reaper possess certain human traits, like a vague outline of a skull and torso.

 

[Photolysis]

Why the inflammatory remark? It doesn't actually motivate any fruitful discussion, you know.

Anyway, we were misunderstanding each other. I was referring to the case of crossfire in an immediate event, not a calculated, intentional act (note that I'm using intentionality as aboutness). Just to clarify what I meant earlier: Where crossfire in an immediate event (e.g. misfiring and mistakenly kill civilians) and isn't intentional (i.e. the act was not intended), the Destroy choice Shepard is given is intentional, meaning Shepard is aware of the cost and has to deliberately make a choice with that cost in mind. Therefore, I postulated that the two situations were ethically different in terms of intentionality. So in that regard we were misunderstanding each other.

Nevertheless, I would still claim that there are ethical differences between killing 10-100 people in a calculated act of war, and exterminating an entire species. The upshot of the latter is far more complex and consequential than the former, even in an utilitarian context. Too many factors play into the whole genocide consequence to make it ethically similar to casualties of war/collateral damage.

Thank you for the clarification and I apologise for the remark. It was frustrating seemingly having a previous point ignored, which instead was due to a misunderstanding.

Assuming all lives are equal, I'd agree that killing say 50/100 Geth and 50/100 Quarians is different from killing 100/100 Geth and the damage is greater in the latter. Fundamentally though, I don't see how it changes, other than the losses being greater than the sum of the parts.

At the end of the day though, the choice to me comes out as destroy the Reapers and take out the Geth in the crossfire, controlling them which could even backfire spectacularly and so not solve the problem, or rewrite all life. Given that #2 is far too risky, it's a choice between Destroy and Synthesis. The latter is so abhorrent that it leaves Destroy as the lesser of the three evils, no matter how tragic the cost is. The unintended consequence of the Geth being destroyed seems better than violating all life.

Anyway, bad contrived writing is still bad.

I sure disagreed when the Quarian admiral tried to justify attacking the defenseless Geth dreadnought with Shepard and Tali still inside, for instance.

Gerrel is correct when he argues that the dreadnought was a valid target. The main problems with his actions is that he was meant to have the fleet retreat and that the original mission objectives were already a success. Raan even states how his reckless actions endangered the entire fleet.

Endangering Shepard and co with no warning is a dick move, and they could have warned him ahead of time "hey if you get the shields down then we'll blow this up". Hell, they even could have focused on parts of the ship Shepard wasn't in, and given them 30 seconds so they had a chance to escape. It's a combination of all these things that led me to punch him, not just putting Shepard in danger with no warning.

 

[Jake Tower]

If you look at the ME2 art book (and the other art books as well I suppose), you'll find a few different designs for the Reaper core. I liked the one that looked like a distorted human fetus with Reaper circuitry embedded in its flesh.

 

[MisterNugNug]

If there is one thing that this ending has brought us, it's quality posts.

Where did you find this?

 

[Escape Goat]

One thing the "extended" ending scenes need to add is this:



Anything less is a waste of time.

is that a kakilosaur or whatever?

 

[DTKT]

Where did you find this?

Bioware social network.

Don't go there.

 

[HadesGigas]

is that a kakilosaur or whatever?

Yeah, the artist based it on the wall drawings on Tuchanka.

 

[Replicant]

LTTP, finished the game last week. Avoided posting here while gathering thoughts, but I have probably read this complete thread by now.

Man, this ending just has left a huge emptiness inside me, I really don't know what to think about it, I feel a little from everything - anger,disappointment,confusion its all there and it wont go away. 98% of the game was just pure awesomeness (gameplay, music, atmosphere, just everything), then the last bits almost ruins all of it - including the first two games. Like a roller coaster ride where at the last turn some guy stands there and pisses in your face while slowly coming to a stop.

Don't know how this extended cut can fix this, since its just an extensions to something that feels completely alien to the series.

Can I buy a hug with spacebucks?

It'd cost you 99k of multiplayer monies. I need to unlock more characters.

 

[Jake Tower]

One thing the "extended" ending scenes need to add is this:



Anything less is a waste of time.

 

[Zomba13]

I think Fez has helped me get over this.

The ending still sucks but I've stopped caring. I'll probably 'play' the extended ending and bitch about how it still sucks in the eventual thread. The multiplayer is still fun though, especially now that I know how to farm credits on firebase white against Geth. Really enjoying using classes I didn't use in single player too.

 

[enzo_gt]

Today's shirt.woot is something of note here.

 

[Mindlog]

Today's shirt.woot is something of note here.

Yeah, I just saw that. Worlds collide and whatnot.
Condition: Dissatisfied

chuckle

 

[LightofRohan]

Today's shirt.woot is something of note here.

I bought one... haha. It's pretty cheap for a shirt, hopefully it's decent quality.

 

[HK-47]

Sovereign has the best theme.

 

[catotheyounger]

Don't know if this has been posted

 

[subversus]

Bioware really needs to hire some better writers.

yep. ME 1-2 weren't that bad. They were bordeline decent with some great bits and most of mediocre writing was alleviated by great VA.

damn, I'm so salty about the series. While I always argued that ME2 was better than ME1 (and I still think it sort of is) ME1 had provided a great template which was never fully fleshed out. Hardware limitations and time limitations prevented the series from being a masterpiece.

After playing ME3 (and not being upset by the ending) I still feel like I haven't played a sequel to ME 1-2. I have received a conclusion to the series but the game itself felt just like another run-of-the-mill game with great art.

So I feel like I'm still waiting for ME3. Ugh.

 

[hateradio]

Don't know if this has been posted
https://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2pqqc5OPh1qzwtdlo1_500.png

Check like three posts above you.

So I feel like I'm still waiting for ME3. Ugh.

The game was certainly undercooked, but I enjoyed it a fair amount. It could have been so much better, but I had lowered expectations.

 

[Dreweyes]

Bump from the other ME threads ♥

My limited edition $10 Teefury is up rigth now! Only available until midnight then it's gone.

http://www.teefury.com/

Cheers guys! ♥

 

[Empty Space]

I've managed to stay out of this thread for a few weeks and on a whim I decided to check in. I'm so glad I did. I just ordered the Marauder Shields shirt. I don't know if I will ever wear it, but I don't care.

 

[Gui_PT]

Can I get that shirt for free if I order it from Portugal?

I'll wear it everywhere

Spoiler

=(

 

[Randdalf]

I'd heard of Marauder Shields before I played the game but had no idea what it was, then on the last level I realised that every Marauder was called Marauder Shields and it had been looking me in the face the entire game.

Also, how does the Synthesis ending make any scientific sense? What does it even mean to merge synthetics and organics?

 

[Rufus]

Also, how does the Synthesis ending make any scientific sense? What does it even mean to merge synthetics and organics?

Nobody knows.

 

[Fathead]

Lots of Speculation from Everyone!

 

[subversus]

I just finished the Final Hours of ME3. And while I can sympathize devs because nobody wanted to make a bad game and did their best I'm still frustrated.

From random generated planets in the beginning to the linear shooter romp 10 years later. The shortest dev cycle for the final part in the thrilogy. No more stories after the ending of ME 3.

That is not how you build a franchise. I mean nobody will play this if they hated how it ends.

Also if they did this game on PC exclusively - with an online trading system, randomly generated content and some multiplayer they would be rolling in money now because it's basically Diablo 3 + Elite a few years earlier. And piracy wouldn't be a problem because of persistent online elements. What a shame.......

Well, at least since now I know how it was developed I feel a bit better for some reason. Shit happens to good people.

 

[Lime]

I just finished the Final Hours of ME3. And while I can sympathize devs because nobody wanted to make a bad game and did their best I'm still frustrated.

From random generated planets in the beginning to the linear shooter romp 10 years later. The shortest dev cycle for the final part in the thrilogy. No more stories after the ending of ME 3.

That is not how you build a franchise. I mean nobody will play this if they hated how it ends.

Also if they did this game on PC exclusively - with an online trading system, randomly generated content and some multiplayer they would be rolling in money now because it's basically Diablo 3 + Elite a few years earlier. And piracy wouldn't be a problem because of persistent online elements. What a shame.......

Well, at least since now I know how it was developed I feel a bit better for some reason. Shit happens to good people.

Congratulations! You are now more competent than whoever is calling the shots at Bioware/EA.

 

[Phuturephunk]

Why do all the Reapers look the same when they are supposed to be made out of different alien species? Why didn't we see anything that looked like the human reaper in action?

Because you only have so much Dev time to get it out the door. I'm sure in the mind's eye they wanted to have each and every one of those 1000 or so ships you see at the end of 2 be unique..and lets face it, if they were that would be discombobulatingly awesome...but reality sets in and well..

 

[DTKT]

Don't know if this has been posted

Fuck fashion.

I just bought that.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Also, how does the Synthesis ending make any scientific sense? What does it even mean to merge synthetics and organics?

not in actual scientific terms, but Bioware wouldn't be the first to confuse Ray Kurzweil and other authors on 'the technological singularity' with 'science'. The same happened in the episode of extra lives on the topic where they spoke 'scientists' instead of 'random guys with book contracts'.

In Kurzweil-ville, the ending makes sense, since his grand claim is that eventually matter and energy will be recoded with (transhuman) intelligence after the singularity takes place.

So.. if you are dumb enough to confuse 'great sounding fiction' with 'actual scientific understanding', then you would end up writing the ending to Mass Effect 3, pun fully intended.

And before you ask, I am trying to read that damn book of his, but I just can't stand it to continue past the basic premise (no definitions, no actual process... only a fool would mistake this for science).
In Kurzweil's defense though, he would not commit to the 'terminator fallacy' -as I like to call it- like ME3 did. His version of transhuman-machine intelligence is benign, even though it is entirely feasible that a Matrix type structure would be formed out of some perverted sense of love or reverence from our would-be Deus Machinas. (not his words, but not unthinkable from his premises)

ME3's Space Casper, however, is just downright vile and condescending.
And to boot, Kurzweil uses a view of evolution in which evolution leads to ever greater order, which is the boot by which Space Casper could be booted from the plot altogether.


I probably should have posted this in the drunk thread, but then it wouldn't have any sense. Or at least even less than it does now.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...controversy-is-actually-good-for-the-industry

The day before the release of Mass Effect 3, BioWare leaked the endings to its fans and polled them to gauge their reaction. Ninety percent of users said "the endings suck." That's a pretty unambiguous statement. After about a month of similar comments from consumers, BioWare co-founder, Dr. Ray Muzyka, published a blog post explaining the studio's intention to make some changes to the offered endings.

Whaaaaaaaaaaa-?

 

[DTKT]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...controversy-is-actually-good-for-the-industry



Whaaaaaaaaaaa-?

That's probably not true...

 

[zkylon]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...controversy-is-actually-good-for-the-industry



Whaaaaaaaaaaa-?

Yeah, "source" missing...

 

[hateradio]

Great reporting from that site.

 

[Montresor]

I finished the game today, and when the credits rolled, all I could think of was, What was so bad about that? (It helped that the credits had three incredible songs.)

And that feeling ("That wasn't so bad") washed over me because I didn't understand the ending at all. I assumed that it was my fault - that I missed something - because it was really confusing. First of all, the explanations of all three choices went by really quickly and I ended up forgetting momentarily which direction corresponded to each choice. Also, I was struggling to remember which choice kept the mass relays intact, because they're more precious than anything else in my opinion. It turns out all the choices destroy the mass relays, so I was upset when I chose the synthetic option and saw the mass relays blowing up.

I also didn't understand what merging synthetics with organics meant. Both EDI and Joker looked the same emerging from the Normandy.

Anyhow, what I absolutely adored was talking with an ultra powerful being (The Catalyst), someone more powerful than even the Reapers, someone who evidently controls the Reapers! I really dig that kind of thing in sci fi. I assume that this being took the form of the dead kid because Shepard had an emotional connection with it. A nice touch I think, because I thought it was equally cool to hear such a child-like voice speak such grandiose phrases as he did on the Citadel.

They just didn't go far enough IMO. If the cut scene was a little longer and they fleshed out some more details (such as the origin of the Reapers), I might've been satisfied. And evidently, no matter which choice you make, the same exact cutscene with both Edi and Joker plays out? Yikes.

And they could learn from Deus Ex Human Revolution. That game has

Spoiler

4

different endings and in Deus Ex Human Revolution they let you

Spoiler

review the exact nature and consequences of each of the 4 endings in vivid detail, and as many times as necessary, before you make your choice

.

 

[HadesGigas]

And they could learn from Deus Ex Human Revolution.

Well... they did learn from Deus Ex... by lifting the three ending choices from Deus Ex 1 pretty much exactly.

 

[MisterNugNug]

I finished the game today, and when the credits rolled, all I could think of was, What was so bad about that? (It helped that the credits had three incredible songs.)

And that feeling ("That wasn't so bad") washed over me because I didn't understand the ending at all. I assumed that it was my fault - that I missed something - because it was really confusing. First of all, the explanations of all three choices went by really quickly and I ended up forgetting momentarily which direction corresponded to each choice. Also, I was struggling to remember which choice kept the mass relays intact, because they're more precious than anything else in my opinion. It turns out all the choices destroy the mass relays, so I was upset when I chose the synthetic option and saw the mass relays blowing up.

I also didn't understand what merging synthetics with organics meant. Both EDI and Joker looked the same emerging from the Normandy.

Anyhow, what I absolutely adored was talking with an ultra powerful being (The Catalyst), someone more powerful than even the Reapers, someone who evidently controls the Reapers! I really dig that kind of thing in sci fi. I assume that this being took the form of the dead kid because Shepard had an emotional connection with it. A nice touch I think, because I thought it was equally cool to hear such a child-like voice speak such grandiose phrases as he did on the Citadel.

They just didn't go far enough IMO. If the cut scene was a little longer and they fleshed out some more details (such as the origin of the Reapers), I might've been satisfied. And evidently, no matter which choice you make, the same exact cutscene with both Edi and Joker plays out? Yikes.

And they could learn from Deus Ex Human Revolution. That game has

Spoiler

4

different endings and in Deus Ex Human Revolution they let you

Spoiler

review the exact nature and consequences of each of the 4 endings in vivid detail, and as many times as necessary, before you make your choice

.

Did you ever play ME2 Arrival? You know what happens to a local system that has a Mass relay in it explode right?

Did you have an issue with what happened to your alien comrades (who traveled to the Sol system via the Mass Relays)...?

Did you bring peace to the Qurian/Geth conflict?

 

[- J - D -]

I finished the game today, and when the credits rolled, all I could think of was, What was so bad about that? (It helped that the credits had three incredible songs.)

And that feeling ("That wasn't so bad") washed over me because I didn't understand the ending at all. I assumed that it was my fault - that I missed something - because it was really confusing. First of all, the explanations of all three choices went by really quickly and I ended up forgetting momentarily which direction corresponded to each choice. Also, I was struggling to remember which choice kept the mass relays intact, because they're more precious than anything else in my opinion. It turns out all the choices destroy the mass relays, so I was upset when I chose the synthetic option and saw the mass relays blowing up.

I also didn't understand what merging synthetics with organics meant. Both EDI and Joker looked the same emerging from the Normandy.

Anyhow, what I absolutely adored was talking with an ultra powerful being (The Catalyst), someone more powerful than even the Reapers, someone who evidently controls the Reapers! I really dig that kind of thing in sci fi. I assume that this being took the form of the dead kid because Shepard had an emotional connection with it. A nice touch I think, because I thought it was equally cool to hear such a child-like voice speak such grandiose phrases as he did on the Citadel.

They just didn't go far enough IMO. If the cut scene was a little longer and they fleshed out some more details (such as the origin of the Reapers), I might've been satisfied. And evidently, no matter which choice you make, the same exact cutscene with both Edi and Joker plays out? Yikes.

And they could learn from Deus Ex Human Revolution. That game has

Spoiler

4

different endings and in Deus Ex Human Revolution they let you

Spoiler

review the exact nature and consequences of each of the 4 endings in vivid detail, and as many times as necessary, before you make your choice

.

You must've missed the integral detail within that scene. It truly sets the Synthesis ending apart from the other two:



Joker's hat merges with his body. It gains life, and possibly sentience.

 

[Hero]

Anyhow, what I absolutely adored was talking with an ultra powerful being (The Catalyst), someone more powerful than even the Reapers, someone who evidently controls the Reapers! I really dig that kind of thing in sci fi. I assume that this being took the form of the dead kid because Shepard had an emotional connection with it. A nice touch I think, because I thought it was equally cool to hear such a child-like voice speak such grandiose phrases as he did on the Citadel.

You love deus ex machina's in your stories? What's the point of reading a book or watching a movie if the only important thing that matters is at the very end? Also, what emotional connection was there between Shepard and the human child? Did he know his name? Facebook friends? Tell me.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Did you have a problem with the sudden thematic shift (synthetics vs. organics) or the Reaper's motivations (synthetics killing organics to protect organics from creating synthetics that would destroy organics)?

And this:

And they could learn from Deus Ex Human Revolution. That game has

Spoiler

4

different endings and in Deus Ex Human Revolution they let you

Spoiler

review the exact nature and consequences of each of the 4 endings in vivid detail, and as many times as necessary, before you make your choice

.

didn't happen in DXHR. You aren't shown vivid detail of the consequences of your actions. You aren't even told.

Spoiler

Jensen just rambles on philosophically while stock footage plays

. Although the endings in DXHR were a problem, they at least made sense thematically

 

[Dany]

The former. That was pulled out of starchilds ass.

 

[subversus]

Guys, I think they will retcon it or find a workaround in the next part of the franchise if there is one. What they did makes 0 sense from fan's perspective. I mean I understand that Hudson might be a bit sick of Mass Effect after 10 years of its development but the fans are not. It's stupid to end the universe right at its start. The humanity just began its advance and there are tons of stories to be told. But now they are locked in Turian wars and "humanity doesn't even have their representative in the council" situation and it limits their options significantly.

I think they will either find a workaround or shelve the franchise because any marketing study will show that people aren't intersted in the universe after this ending.

 

[HK-47]

Guys, I think they will retcon it or find a workaround in the next part of the franchise if there is one. What they did makes 0 sense from fan's perspective. I mean I understand that Hudson might be a bit sick of Mass Effect after 10 years of its development but the fans are not. It's stupid to end the universe right at its start. The humanity just began its advance and there are tons of stories to be told. But now they are locked in Turian wars and "humanity doesn't even have their representative in the council" situation and it limits their options significantly.

I think they will either find a workaround or shelve the franchise because any marketing study will show that people aren't intersted in the universe after this ending.

People are interested in mp.

 

[Dany]

Guys, I think they will retcon it or find a workaround in the next part of the franchise if there is one. What they did makes 0 sense from fan's perspective. I mean I understand that Hudson might be a bit sick of Mass Effect after 10 years of its development but the fans are not. It's stupid to end the universe right at its start. The humanity just began its advance and there are tons of stories to be told. But now they are locked in Turian wars and "humanity doesn't even have their representative in the council" situation and it limits their options significantly.

I think they will either find a workaround or shelve the franchise because any marketing study will show that people aren't intersted in the universe after this ending.

I call bullcrap on that. It wouldn't be much to get the fan excited again.

 

[subversus]

People are interested in mp.

Some form of MMO would work, I agree. If they do something close to what the original vision was (basically Elite) I would hop right in. If they do some innovative stuff with co-op like players having their own reputation and influence which can be used in dialogues and in game in general it would be great too. But standard multiplayer and horde mode won't prop the franchise.

I call bullcrap on that. It wouldn't be much to get the fan excited again.

lol no. Excited about what? Another "epic" trilogy? After what they have done it will work only if we play as Zaeed or somebody like him.

 

[The Broken Ska Record]

This is how I felt during the entire ending sequence.

I hate to over play my dislike of the ending, but I was fairly indifferent throughout the series. Especially since I only started playing the games early last month. But after everything, I felt insulted. That I was being lead on this wild goose chase to get a golden egg and instead I got shit.

I think I could deal with a LOST type ending where there is no story closure, but there was character closure. There was no closure here.

 

[hateradio]

People are interested in mp.

I'm the silent minority. I totally forgot about MP, and I haven't touched it once.

I'd be weary about going into Mass Shift.