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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow

The comparison to books is flawed. There's no history of downloadable content and additions to printed material like with games. The equivalent would be something like an author of a popular series writes a book with a botched ending, fans get angry, and the author caves into pressure (financial and otherwise) and writes a short story to placate people.
 

Aaron

Member
It would feel like an alternative, and not a real ending. Even if it's better.
Only because you're actively thinking about it now. In two years, when it'll actually matter for Bioware, your memory is going to be dulled. If they make this DLC ending some stand out spectacular, that's what your mind will cling to. If it's good enough, the vast majority won't care it's altered. Just like I can't remember what the theater editions of Lord of the Rings were. I only remember the extended ones.

The comparison to books is flawed. There's no history of downloadable content and additions to printed material like with games. The equivalent would be something like an author of a popular series writes a book with a botched ending, fans get angry, and the author caves into pressure (financial and otherwise) and writes a short story to placate people.
Books have had revisions in later editions. The Hobbit is one, but there's been plenty more.
With movies, there are director's cuts and extended editions.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
There's a lot of talk of Bioware's 'creative vision' but I think it goes beyond that really. Bioware might have come up with a creative vision but then they executed it badly. So you have people confused as to whether the destruction of the mass relays causes an implied genocide, and bafflement as to why Joker is flying away from Earth with people who appear to have magically transported up from the surface. The ending sequences lack clarity on a nuts-and-bolts level. I wonder how the ending would have gone down if they'd gone in the same general direction but left people confused in this way.

I don't think anybody is arguing that the ending isn't shit though. BioWare's creative vision was awful and they're now seeing the consequences of that: pissed off fans who feel cheated, confused and frustrated at an awful end to the trilogy.

But it was still their creative vision and if they don't want to do anything then they don't have to. If this is how they decided for the trilogy to end, that's just the way it is, unfortunately.
 

Replicant

Member
Eh, it's just such a weird concept...retroactively changing the end of a story to please people. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Bioware or the bizarre ending, I'm just saying that I'd have a hard time accepting a "new" ending after I've witnessed the ending BW intended for me to see. It's been etched into my brain. But I'm probably like 20K posts late to this discussion, gotta beat games faster lol.
No one at Bioware had any qualms when they pulled "The Arrival" out of their collective assess and forced you to commit genocide regardless whether or not you bought that DLC. No one at Bioware gave a shit that you destroyed the collector's base to smithereens and they still wrote it as if Cerberus managed to salvage the technology anyway.

If they had no problem overwriting their previous plot points then they shouldn't have problem doing the same thing now.
 

ape2man

Member
so, is the Mass Effect 3: a new hope "ending" coming or what?. saw something that they caved and are changing the ending.
 

Zerokku

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?
Pretty sure almost everyone has read this by now but it bears mentioning in this thread.

OMG! BioWare caves in to fan bitching and will do something about it!

http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

There! Also, what the heck happened to Gaf? It's been down for hours.

Merely "Clarifying and providing closure" really won't solve all the issues this ending has, so I'm not holding my breath until we actually see something.

Also, saw this while GAF was down and it needs to be shared -

3Qq6U.jpg
 
Here's a question that could probably be spun off into its own thread, but let me get it in before the userbase comes flooding back:

If changing a game's ending via DLC violates the artistic integrity of that work, then what does that make charging extra money for characters and plot lines?
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Pretty sure almost everyone has read this by now but it bears mentioning in this thread.

OMG! BioWare caves in to fan bitching and will do something about it!

http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

There! Also, what the heck happened to Gaf? It's been down for hours.

God after reading that, I bet they give an over indulgent happy icecream ending and completely miss the point.
 

Patryn

Member
Here's a question that could probably be spun off into its own thread, but let me get it in before the userbase comes flooding back:

If changing a game's ending via DLC violates the artistic integrity of that work, then what does that make charging extra money for characters and plot lines?

See, but those are planned ahead of time. I think the problem people have is that this is Bioware bending solely to fan demands, and not because they planned on this.

Or something.
 

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Here's a question that could probably be spun off into its own thread, but let me get it in before the userbase comes flooding back:

If changing a game's ending via DLC violates the artistic integrity of that work, then what does that make charging extra money for characters and plot lines?

Good point. Also they don't "need" to fix anything, they just won't get anymore of my money. I still can't belive no jurno has had the balls the say how bad the ending is.

If they removed the normandy crashing bit with my crew members magically on it, that would be a start.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Omg Gaf's still alive! I thought for sure EA bought gaf just to take them down and stop a large pocket of complaining :p

Glad Bioware seems to be making a good choice here though.
 

CrazyDude

Member
They aren't going to change the ending. They are probably going to add things they cut originally from the. Ex. Star Kid explains more.
 

aesop

Member
They aren't going to change the ending. They are probably going to add things they cut originally from the. Ex. Star Kid explains more.

Or reveal that the whole star kid thing was a hallucination and all of us indoctrination theory believers were right.
 

Omega

Banned
Pretty sure almost everyone has read this by now but it bears mentioning in this thread.

OMG! BioWare caves in to fan bitching and will do something about it!

http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

There! Also, what the heck happened to Gaf? It's been down for hours.

I want a real ending.

If it wasn't an ending that was intentionally cut to be sold as DLC, don't bother. I don't want some half-assed throw in DLC.

If they're just making it to appease people than it doesn't work. They defended the ending. To me, that means they have no idea what we found wrong with the ending and I doubt they read the forums. Most facebook/twitter posts only say "fix the ending"

They probably assume we just want some happy ending where Shepard punches every Reaper into oblivion and brofists with Garrus.
 
And we're back.

The wording made me feel like they are going to write up some kind of vague short story detailing what happened post game. I dont the we'll be seeing any kind of DLC. I guess that sort of appeases everybody. We get an explanation of what went on those last 10mins of the game, they don't charge anybody for anything, and they get to keep their "artistic integrity".
 
The comparison to books is flawed. There's no history of downloadable content and additions to printed material like with games. The equivalent would be something like an author of a popular series writes a book with a botched ending, fans get angry, and the author caves into pressure (financial and otherwise) and writes a short story to placate people.
Oh you mean like when Arthur Conan Doyle caved to fan demands and retconned the death of Sherlock Holmes way back in the 19th century?
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue.

So this is not the last Mass Effect game? I hope there are no prequels.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
I hope the Bioware doctors had a nice talk with Hudson and Walters about handling the ending of a trilogy properly.

Hopefully this new DLC that "repairs" the ending is free.
 
Just do the indoctrination thing at this point, write the super duper epic ending we should of had even if a meggaton of people die in the process and let us move on.

Also I like how he basically said that critics > fans with the "we like to defend our work and point to the critics crap" You mean those same guys who rarely finish games, or have the interns do it then write reviews bloated with words they got from their trusty thesaurus after they were given the game for free?

At this point they either need to just completely redo the entire ending, make it worthy of the series, or they are going to get even more backlash if they decide to just make a power point presentation.
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Also, pointing out the high review is stupid because I bet you'd be hard pressed to find one who beat the game before reviewing it. Which I honestly think is fine, but it also means it's a irrelevant when put against issues with the ending.
 
Wow, finally we get some confirmation that they indeed did not have this planned. And I hope people realize them starting to work on it right now, is not going to equal anything amazing or a "true ending". The amount of money they would need to redo the ending properly would be insane.
 
I hope the Bioware doctors had a nice talk with Hudson and Walters about handling the ending of a trilogy properly.

Hopefully this new DLC that "repairs" the ending is free.

Yeah... imagine MS's reaction to EA releasing a big and undoubtedly popular piece of Mass Effect DLC on XBL for free.
 

Digoman

Member
Yay, Gaf is back online. Now we can resume our entitled complaining.

Here is Forbes response to the "apology"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...to-fans-for-the-mass-effect-3-ending-sort-of/

Gotta say they've been killing it throughout this whole ending controversy.

It truly is bizarre that Forbes of all places is giving coverage that's differs from "fans are feeling entitled and want a happy ending".

Ray's response was little more then saying "wait a little longer", but it still is interesting that the PR machine thought it was necessary.

My guess would also be that Bioware will simply try to "expand" the ending, probably adding a scene explaining the Normandy and some more singularity talk by vent kid. At this point they can probably add Meer or Hale dialog since they should be booked for DLCs.
 

aesop

Member
i'm still hoping this is the case.

I think the evidence to support the theory is already in the game, so it's not patching the ending out or disregarding their so-called artistic vision. All they need to do to is create an epilogue that has one of the squad members finding Shep in the pile of rubble (Garrus, mayhaps?) and commencing with the "while you were out" speech and I'll be fine with it.
 

Omega

Banned
This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue.

So this is not the last Mass Effect game? I hope there are no prequels.


Why not prequels? What else is there going to be? Sequels?

The cycle ends one way or another. What can they possibly do?

I for one would love a First Contact War game. Seems likely. Or Krogan rebellions.
 

dankir

Member
If this new ending doesn't prove that Shepard was indoctrinated during the "original" endings and doesn't include the most epic of epic fucking battles against Harbinger I'm going to cut somebody.

I don't care if Shepard or everybody else dies. Don't rob me of that at least.
 

inky

Member
How will this not end in even more disappointment for everyone? Every outcome I imagine just sinks Bioware more and more.

I'll be laughing from the sidelines, that's for sure.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Here is Forbes response to the "apology"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...nding-sort-of/

Gotta say they've been killing it throughout this whole ending controversy.
This is brilliant. I love how they're cutting through the PR BS.

Why not prequels? What else is there going to be? Sequels?

The cycle ends one way or another. What can they possibly do?

I for one would love a First Contact War game. Seems likely. Or Krogan rebellions.
Because prequels often rely on fan interest when they have hope for the future.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
If they go with it was all dream route I will lose all sympathy I had for them (or what was left of it). Don't change what happened but simply add some lines explaining what happened to the earth and all of the races after the ending.

For a DLC mission simply add a rescue operation to save the Normandy's crew. You simply play as the squadmates you have left onboard trying to survive in an hostile environment while the Alliance is coming to get you. Add a bunch of hostile aliens and connect that with the Reapers/Protheans if you must. Liara, James and EDI are difficult to lose permanently in the game so use one of them as the lead. Bonus if you can go find Shepard near death in the rubbles of the Citadel at the end of the mission.
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
A boss fight with Harbinger would have been great. Instead of the Rannoch fight, they could have used that idea in the final push for the conduit. You link up with the fleet and have to choose a part to break off and focus all firing on Harbinger while you aim the targeting laser. Make it a bit harder than dodge and fire, it would have been an epic and satisfying boss fight. When he's down run into the conduit and activate the crucible.
 

Metroidvania

People called Romanes they go the house?
Ray Muzyka said:
In return, I’d ask that you help us do that by supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted. I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole.

Does this seem out of place to anyone else? It either screams 'buy our game', but then again, so does the 'critics loved it' angle, or the 'shit, buy our game, ignore the internet hate machine'.

The message as a whole is sending a giant mixed message of 'we totally get you fans' and 'the ending was awesome, you complainers don't get it, the video game reviewers obviously did'.

edit: Also, Jessica indicated that the developers are too scared about getting singled out by the internet hate machine to write any sort of dev blogs. Kind of made me sad, since most of the stuff I've read regarding the ending has been hostile, but still on what I'd call a fairly high level of civility.
 

DTKT

Member
From Garry Whitta blog post, I really don't understand the "gutsy" part. There is nothing "gutsy" or"ambitious" about the ending. If anything, it's rushed, non-nonsensical and poorly crafted:

I think BioWare made a really gutsy choice to end Mass Effect 3 the way they did and I applaud them for having the courage to do it. I do think it could have been executed a little better. But I think it has to say something that the ending has generated so much discussion, and that this is the first time ever I've written an entire article about a game's ending. It seems like BioWare is now scrambling to respond to public demand and is making noises about "fixing" the ending. I think that's a shame. When you're writing a story you should always go with what you think is right rather than try to guess what your audience wants, and I think the same is true retrospectively too. No matter all the whining and complaining I think BioWare should stick to their guns. I'm sure they had a plan for where this would all go next before the game released, so why they are second-guessing themselves now I have no idea. And I think they should be flattered that all the complaints are stemming from a place of love and affection for the characters and the universe they created. Going back to my original point, an audience conditioned by decades of endings of no real consequence and easy reset buttons because storytellers are afraid to upset the apple cart is always going to be perturbed by an ending like this one which dramatically alters the nature of the universe and characters they have come to love while leaving no easily predictable way forward. But I love that. Even if there was no way forward and this was the end of Mass Effect I'd be okay with that. Because as much as I love the games and want to keep playing them, that's what all good stories eventually do. They end.

And I think he's missing the point there. The right word is not "work" but "choices and consequences". I mean, I crafted my Shepard throughout 3 games, I expect my decision to influence the ending. That's even part of every single marketing push they did. To not deliver on that is just disappointing.

Oh, and to those people contributing to the growing meme that the ending sucks because it's not sufficient reward for all the "work" they put in getting there? Shut the fuck up. Games aren't work, if they were you wouldn't play them. They're fun, and the game is hugely fun to play even if the ending does leave a bad taste in your mouth.
 

sTeLioSco

Banned
endings.jpg

http://www.virtualshackles.com/299

Mass Effect 3 Fallout: Did the Gaming Media Fail Gamers?

That’s been the question—and accusation—on the minds of many on the forums I frequent. Without giving anything away, it is safe to say that the reaction to Mass Effect 3 has evolved into the quintessential example of the Orwellian doublethink. Has any game in recent memory been more simultaneously loved and hated than this one? The consensus is as follows: the first 35-40 hours are the some of the greatest, most masterful bits of digital entertainment bliss in history, easily the best in the series to date. Then the last 10 minutes ruin the whole thing! My own review is forthcoming and so I won’t comment here on whether or not I agree with that position, but there you have it. Reaction to the ending has been so negative that massive petitions have developed online, asking Bioware to change it. A thread on their social network arguing in favor of the proposition that the ending is a dream sequence garnered some 15,000 replies. Since when do people actually hope something in a game, movie, or book is a dream sequence? That right there says it all.

This brings us to the crux of the issue: the media reaction. Mass Effect 3 earned enormous praise before its release, 8s, 9s and 10s across the Metacritic board (the less said about the user score bombing the better). This isn’t a surprise; AAA titles usually receive this sort of royal treatment. ME3 legitimately deserves those scores, and one tends to think that whatever a reviewer’s impression with the ending he or she won’t let it taint his “professional” opinion of the overall title. Furthermore, as a matter of policy it’s a good idea to avoid mentioning endings in professional reviews. This reaction is to be expected.

What is not expected is the hostility and mockery many in the gaming media displayed as this ME3 controversy developed. It is no secret that a slew of news stories have been springing up as of late, simplifying the complaints of gamers to “Gamers Demand Bioware Make a Happy Ending to Mass Effect 3”. Gamers have been called “entitled”, and derisively compared to the Kathy Bates character in the movie Misery—in truth the reaction is more akin to what happened when Arthur Conan Doyle attempted to kill off Sherlock Holmes in The Final Problem, but I digress. And no, that wasn’t a “Shepard dies?!?!” spoiler.

That response is mystifying to me. Let’s forget for a moment whether or not Mass Effect’s ending does in fact “suck”. Who does the “game media” serve if not “gamers”? Whose opinions should they acknowledge, convey, and perhaps even reflect if not those of “gamers”? Certainly not those of the publishers or the industry at large, I fear the long-term viability of this medium would be rather grim if that were the case. Is each games journalist responsible for their opinion alone, with discretion to criticize or praise as is their want? Maybe, but what an oddity for organizations to pay them to function in that capacity when they could do it best as a regular blogger—and in any case I certainly don’t believe any other journalistic discipline permits such discretion.

Without unduly lecturing others on the proper role of a games journalist, I should think a baseline level of professional courtesy is a natural and obvious requisite. Note: that does not necessarily mean politeness. Ours is a young medium, those of us who partake in it tend to be, on average, in our 20s or 30s. By all means, be sarcastic and funny. Be immature and profane, if that’s your modus operandi and it entertains your readership. Professional courtesy doesn’t mean to be nice, it means be professional enough to know and understand the issue before you write about it.

There are legitimate criticisms of the Mass Effect 3 ending. That is not to say the criticisms are artistically or mechanically valid, but they are understandable, and held by a large segment of people who finished the game. Certainly the reaction absolutely cannot be summarized as “Gamers demand Bioware make a happy ending”, or “Gamers are Behaving like Entitled Brats”. All it takes is approximately five minutes of modest research to see that people’s complaints are far deeper than that.

At this point it becomes a serious question of journalistic integrity, more so than mere insults or failing to serve the community. Mocking gamers produces catchy headlines and invites online traffic, but it seems very much a self-serving exercise in ego gratification. It may be argued that “games aren’t serious”, and therefore our media doesn’t have to take it seriously, but I don’t believe there are many who think that way anymore. Certainly the Smithsonian doesn’t, as their recent “Art of Video Games” exhibition makes clear.

This may be a young medium, but that designation only heightens the need for even a modicum of professional courtesy from the people who represent it. That doesn’t mean fairness in all instances, but it does mean you don’t have front page writers on your website ignoring the issues entirely, dismissing wide swaths of the gaming population as “whiny entitled babies”, and using your platform as their personal mouthpiece for High School level antagonism. As a passive observer, who hasn’t taken any particular “side” regarding the endings, the clash between fans of Mass Effect and the gaming media has been disheartening, to say the least.

http://www.unigamesity.com/mass-effect-3-fallout-did-the-gaming-media-fail-gamers/


All the "journalists" make fun of the majority that dislike the ending and mock them,in order to defend themselves that gave high scores(that they needed to give since it was from a big publisher) without finding anything wrong in an ending that makes no sense in such a decision heavy game!

And now.if Bioware does changes to the ending they will look even stupider.
(Especially kotaku that had everyday an article mocking the fans...)
 

Retrofluxed

Member
Dr Ray can call it "artistic integrity" all he wants, but when the ending was written on a napkin a few months before the game was finished balanced around the idea "lots of speculation for everyone", I can still call bullshit.
 

Zeliard

Member
A boss fight with Harbinger would have been great. Instead of the Rannoch fight, they could have used that idea in the final push for the conduit. You link up with the fleet and have to choose a part to break off and focus all firing on Harbinger while you aim the targeting laser. Make it a bit harder than dodge and fire, it would have been an epic and satisfying boss fight. When he's down run into the conduit and activate the crucible.

A boss fight against Harbinger would have been idiotic. You fight a tiny Destroyer and have to beat him by repetitively ordering orbital strikes.

The game should have ended with dialogue and a choice. Just something a lot more fleshed-out and meaningful than what we got.
 

Zomba13

Member
Just wondering, does anyone else think the 'Mass Effect 3 is art and should maintain it's artistic integrity by keeping the ending and not changing or adding to it because fans of the series demands it' a bit stupid seeing as they have planned to have DLC that adds to the story since day one and practically rub your face in it at the end of the game (Shepard am legend. Buy our DLC plox)?

I could see the whole 'it's art' defence if they released it as is and as a competed product that was not added to at all post release but come on. They are planning on adding to the story anyway by charging us money for extra missions. Doesn't that compromise the artistic integrity?

Also, so glad GAF is back up. Also I lol'd at the Bioware statement when it bragged about all the perfect scores and what not.
 

Sajuuk

Member
A boss fight with Harbinger would have been great. Instead of the Rannoch fight, they could have used that idea in the final push for the conduit. You link up with the fleet and have to choose a part to break off and focus all firing on Harbinger while you aim the targeting laser. Make it a bit harder than dodge and fire, it would have been an epic and satisfying boss fight. When he's down run into the conduit and activate the crucible.

Call the destiny ascension for fire suport instead of doing nothing again.
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
A boss fight against Harbinger would have been idiotic. You fight a tiny Destroyer and have to beat him by repetitively ordering orbital strikes.

The game should have ended with dialogue and a choice. Just something a lot more fleshed-out and meaningful than what we got.

I don't think you read my post...
 

Nibel

Member
So if I create a beloved franchise and end it in the most unlogical way possible, my franchise is gutsy and can be described as art?

BioWare must be throwing some great cocaine parties, man.
 
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