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[superseohyun]

44 as in 4400? Or 44k?

The factory had a dorm there, a volkswagen factory next to it where the alloy rims melted (with a dorm too) and habitations next to it.

If a city has less than 100 or 50 (I forgot) casualties, there is no need for official report.

3 years ago around 10,000 people protested when they built that factory because of the nature of chemicals they planned to use, officials then claimed that they would just use it as a regular assembly factory to calm the population living there.

Anyway, China.

this myth used to be 35, now its 50 or 100?

also one should overestimate his/her ability to predict casualties from youtube video and internet photos...

 

[Liberty4all]

Anyone post the footage the American got? Its insane

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/incred...amatic-reactions-to-china-blasts-504169539584

Edit: Just saw it last page.

 

[SmartWaffles]

Some updates about the cause: first response fire crew did not know there are dangerous explosive chemicals on site and was arranging water resources to put them out when the explosion happened. The company that owns the storage compound did not have the permit to store explosive chemicals till 2013 and it is very likely that local residents and security services did not know about them turning the compound into storing chemicals at all.

 

[Ratrat]

Which seems to be an asian trait I guess. I mean during the reactor explosion in Japan, they didnt let reporters near the place and still dont.
Which is a shame...

But right now we dont know anything, so I guess nothing to cover up (yet).

Can we not? pretty fucked up thing to say.

 

[Ovid]

I don't mean to derail, but, why would we ever need bombs that big?

I know why the Tzar was created it's just so dumb.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Some updates about the cause: first response fire crew did not know there are dangerous explosive chemicals on site and was arranging water resources to put them out when the explosion happened. The company that owns the storage compound did not have the permit to store explosive chemicals till 2013 and it is very likely that local residents and security services did not know about them turning the compound into storing chemicals at all.

WELP

I hope that company is put into bankruptcy by all of the fines & sanctions enforced by the Chinese Gov't/UN and the owners of said company go to prison without parole.

How fucking irresponsible.

 

[KHarvey16]

WELP

I hope that company is put into bankruptcy by all of the fines & sanctions enforced by the Chinese Gov't/UN and the owners of said company go to prison without parole.

How fucking irresponsible.

What are their responsibilities beyond having the proper permits?

 

[DoktorEvil]

What are their responsibilities beyond having the proper permits?

I'm not understanding. You don't think the company executives should be held culpable for the hundreds of lives affected for storing hazardous/dangerous chemicals inside storage containers that resulted in said explosion and not informing the people nearby about them beforehand or handling them more properly via safety management?

In the OP via a Mod:

The blasts originated at a warehouse site owned by Tianjin Dongjiang Port Rui Hai International Logistics Co. Ltd., a company that stores and transports dangerous chemicals, according to Xinhua. Company executives have been taken into custody, state media said.

In the CNN article:

"According to the Tianjin Tanggu Environmental Monitoring Station, hazardous chemicals stored by the company concerned include sodium cyanide (NaCN), toluene diisocyanate (TDI) and calcium carbide (CaC2), all of which pose direct threats to human health on contact. NaCN in particular is highly toxic. Ca (C2) and TDI react violently with water and reactive chemicals, with risk of explosion. This will present a challenge for firefighting and, with rain forecast for tomorrow, is a major hazard," Greenpeace said.

Wen Wurui, Tianjin's environment protection chief, told a news conference Thursday that some chemical levels in the area were higher than normal but that they wouldn't be dangerous to human health unless someone is exposed to them for long periods.

The explosions have raised questions about the storage of hazardous materials at Tianjin's port.

A notice posted by the Tianjin Administration of Work Safety on its website last week said city officials held a meeting with executives of more than 20 companies that handle dangerous chemicals at the port.

The agency's director urged the executives to carry out safety management, the notice said.

 

[KHarvey16]

I'm not understanding. You don't think the company executives should be held culpable for the hundreds of lives affected for storing hazardous/dangerous chemicals inside storage containers that resulted in said explosion and not informing the people nearby about them beforehand or handling them more properly via safety management?

In the OP via a Mod:



In the CNN article:

I think we don't yet have any idea what happened or why, so I am having trouble understanding how we can assign culpability at this point. You sort of want to make sure you understand situations like this before dropping the hammer to ensure you actually address whatever the problem was.

Who were they obligated to inform? What are the applicable procedures? I haven't seen any information regarding what was expected or required versus what was done.

 

[SmartWaffles]

What are their responsibilities beyond having the proper permits?

You don't store explosive chemicals that close to residential areas, period. You should notify local fire department and public security services about you doing so, period. Greedy higher-ups are definitely up to blame. Expect harsh legal actions after this.

 

[KHarvey16]

You don't store explosive chemicals that close to residential areas, period. You should notify local fire department and public security services about you doing so, period. Greedy higher-ups are definitely up to blame. Expect harsh legal actions after this.

Are these what you think the rules should be or what you know the rules are? If the rules exist, you punish those who didn't follow them. If the rules don't exist, you punish those who didn't legislate them.

 

[CTLance]

Yah, I'm siding with KHarvey on that. We simply know way too little to go around and assign blame.

Not saying that the official reasons and the truth of the matter will necessarily overlap, mind you.

Still, we can rant and rave when that happens. Not before.

 

[Shy Fingers]

You don't store explosive chemicals that close to residential areas, period. You should notify local fire department and public security services about you doing so, period. Greedy higher-ups are definitely up to blame. Expect harsh legal actions after this.

If they had a permit, that means some legal person looked at it and ok'd it, though. Is the government going to take legal action against itself?

EDIT: I read they got one in 2013, not stopped having one. Excuse me, I'll just be an idiot over in the corner/

 

[Laekon]

If they had permits, which it sounds like they did, that's notification to the fire department if the government has its shit together. During an internship at a fire/police software company I saw multiple fire departments that had binders with info on local businesses based on permits and material safety data. sheets. I doubt companies have to notify local residence in any western country.

 

[SmartWaffles]

Are these what you think the rules should be or what you know the rules are? If the rules exist, you punish those who didn't follow them. If the rules don't exist, you punish those who didn't legislate them.

There are regulations about minimum safe distance to residential areas when storing hazardous/explosive chemicals, and from the info at hand it is not enforced (nearest residential buildings are less than 500m away).

 

[KHarvey16]

There are regulations about minimum safe distance to residential areas when storing hazardous/explosive chemicals, and from the info at hand it is not enforced (nearest residential buildings are less than 500m away).

You know this is the law in the relevant jurisdiction? How did they obtain a permit if that's true?

 

[legacyzero]

Any idea's as to how this happened, yet??

 

[DoktorEvil]

Ideally, if the fire fighters knew the kind of hazardous materials they were fire fighting, maybe the explosion wouldn't have been as catastrophic as it was?

I don't think they went to grab a water hose to exacerbate the situation...

You know this is the law in the relevant jurisdiction? How did they obtain a permit if that's true?

Corruption and expediters?

 

[BattleMonkey]

Not sure in China, but in the US chemical storage requires local fire departments to be notified of what kinda of stuff is on site so they can respond to it, also must be displayed outside of the site warnings of what kind of dangers the chemicals pose so first responders know how to approach. We deal with scented aromatherapy products but use lot of chemicals to make our stuff, nothing very dangerous but we have to go through all kinds of inspections and have explicit warning placards placed and inspected by fire marshals ahead of time to know what they would be possibly dealing with.

As for China, I wouldn't be surprised at much lax regulations, if you ever been there or done business with them, it's a clusterfuck of "no fucks given" on safety and corruption seeps into every aspect.

 

[KHarvey16]

Corruption and expediters?

And if that's true, do you believe your original hope, the company going out of business and the leadership being prosecuted, solves the problem?

 

[DoktorEvil]

And if that's true, do you believe your original hope, the company going out of business and the leadership being prosecuted, solves the problem?

Presumably, the problem will still exist and Gov't will still be lax so no.

It still shouldn't have taken an incident of this scale to realize there is a problem with lax regulations in China.

 

[SmartWaffles]

You know this is the law in the relevant jurisdiction? How did they obtain a permit if that's true?

Rumor says the management of the company has connections to the city government.

 

[KHarvey16]

Rumor says the management of the company has connections to the city government.

The problem is literally everything seems to be rumors at this point.

 

[Blablurn]

look at this crater

:S

https://twitter.com/cctvnews/status/632147877242863620

 

[subrock]

look at this crater

:S

https://twitter.com/cctvnews/status/632147877242863620

Don't read the conspiracy theory comments

 

[aznpxdd]

Damn I read the comments. So I'm confused, is that a legit crater leftover from the chemical explosion??

 

[4Tran]

Not sure in China, but in the US chemical storage requires local fire departments to be notified of what kinda of stuff is on site so they can respond to it, also must be displayed outside of the site warnings of what kind of dangers the chemicals pose so first responders know how to approach. We deal with scented aromatherapy products but use lot of chemicals to make our stuff, nothing very dangerous but we have to go through all kinds of inspections and have explicit warning placards placed and inspected by fire marshals ahead of time to know what they would be possibly dealing with.

As for China, I wouldn't be surprised at much lax regulations, if you ever been there or done business with them, it's a clusterfuck of "no fucks given" on safety and corruption seeps into every aspect.

On paper, the regulations in China may be a bit more lax than elsewhere, but usually they're not egregiously lax. However, the enforcement of the regulations tend to be very weak which is where China's reputation for weak regulations come from. It's almost certain that there were some regulations broken in this incident, and the central government has been given a good reason to find the slightest breach of the law.

And if that's true, do you believe your original hope, the company going out of business and the leadership being prosecuted, solves the problem?

Corruption can and does lead to the death penalty in a lot of cases. And Xi Jinping has been on a strong anti-corruption campaign, so the threat of Ruihai Logistics going out of business is the least of their concerns.

Rumor says the management of the company has connections to the city government.

Almost any major business in China has some sort of connection to the local government, so that should be a given.

 

[RotBot]

look at this crater

:S

https://twitter.com/cctvnews/status/632147877242863620

Clearer shot from multiple angles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaHcL8jjH9I

Conspiracy theorists are making it out to be sinkhole depth from the darkness, but it looks like it's filled with water or some other liquid to me. I wouldn't presume it's deep from that footage.

 

[AndyD]

I still don't understand how so many firemen died, the time frame between the first and second explosions was so short, there's no way they showed up on scene. Or were they fighting an earlier fire that then erupted with the explosions?

 

[marrec]

I still don't understand how so many firemen died, the time frame between the first and second explosions was so short, there's no way they showed up on scene. Or were they fighting an earlier fire that then erupted with the explosions?

The latter. The official word is that a fire started and emergency crews responded and then things went up, likely due to the mixing of water and volatile chemicals.

 

[aspiegamer]

If indeed this company got a permit in 2013 there's going to be an epic amount of state cover-up on this. Supposedly regulations state that hazardous materials must be a minimum of 1km from any residences or public infrastructure (schools, hospitals, etc). There are 3 residential blocks within 1km and two were already there in 2013. That's a monumental government fuckup if true, and something to be legitimately angry about.

 

[AndyD]

The latter. The official word is that a fire started and emergency crews responded and then things went up, likely due to the mixing of water and volatile chemicals.

Ahh. That makes more sense. I had read that the explosion was sudden, but didn't realize it was after a fire had been burning for some time. It actually makes more sense this way as to why there's a "low" number of casualties.

 

[AndyD]

DP by accident.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Clearer shot from multiple angles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaHcL8jjH9I

Conspiracy theorists are making it out to be sinkhole depth from the darkness, but it looks like it's filled with water or some other liquid to me. I wouldn't presume it's deep from that footage.

I mean, weren't they forecasting a bunch of rain? Doesn't seem suspicious to me either way.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Being former military, I've seen some large explosions. The fact that this could have been preventable makes me sad and angry. The American video is insane.

 

[DoktorEvil]

If indeed this company got a permit in 2013 there's going to be an epic amount of state cover-up on this. Supposedly regulations state that hazardous materials must be a minimum of 1km from any residences or public infrastructure (schools, hospitals, etc). There are 3 residential blocks within 1km and two were already there in 2013. That's a monumental government fuckup if true, and something to be legitimately angry about.

My heart sank reading this. This sounds like something that was wholly preventable.

 

[spekkeh]

The problem is literally everything seems to be rumors at this point.

I don't think you can be a big company in China without having intimate relations with the party.

 

[DrM]

Over 3000 new cars were destroyed in the explosions, majority of them from Volkswagen (over 2000) that used this port as logistical hub

 

[AndyD]

Over 3000 new cars were destroyed in the explosions, majority of them from Volkswagen (over 2000) that used this port as logistical hub

I think you can see them all lined up in a video by that drone.

 

[demon]

Being former military, I've seen some large explosions. The fact that this could have been preventable makes me sad and angry. The American video is insane.

Just out of curiosity, were any of them as big as this one? Because this one seems insanely huge.

Also does anyone know how far from the explosion the American guy filming was?

 

[Nivash]

Just out of curiosity, were any of them as big as this one? Because this one seems insanely huge.

Also does anyone know how far from the explosion the American guy filming was?

Just did a rough estimate, clocked the time difference from flash to the bang as roughly 3-3.5 seconds. So somewhere about 1-1.2 km (or between two thirds or three quarters of a mile) away, assuming the video and audio is synced.

 

[dramatis]

NYTimes has a more detailed article up about the explosion.

Local residents have said they had no idea that any risk had been posed by the warehouses where the fire began, a modest blaze that suddenly exploded in mammoth fireballs. They engulfed office buildings and port facilities, as well as onlookers who had gathered to watch the firefighters at work.

The developers of Vanke Port City, a residential complex that is practically at the incinerated area’s doorstep and has now been evacuated indefinitely, said they had been told when they started construction in 2010 that the warehouses in question handled only “common goods.”

“We were never notified that the warehouses were modified to handle dangerous goods,” a spokesman for the developer said in an email.

According to Chinese law, facilities that handle hazardous materials must be more than 3,200 feet from homes and public buildings. Vanke is 2,000 feet away.

In a rare bit of good news, the state news media reported on Friday that rescue workers had found an injured firefighter at the scene more than a full day after the fire.

Throughout the day, explosions shook the site, including a series of small blasts at dusk that sent columns of alternately black and white smoke into the air.

“I haven’t changed my clothes in three days,” said one resident, Yuan Ping, 30, a telecommunications worker who described how she lost her dog as she and her family scrambled to safety on the night of the explosions. “A police officer told me the air inside was so toxic that my dog was probably dead.”

According to the article, approximately 6000 people have been displaced by the incident.

 

[inner-G]

i know it wasnt a nuke. but this got me searching for detonated nukes n testing. sheesh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEje927dygM



actually ironically the youtube i posted was that bravo bomb. and u mean to tell me theres a larger bomb thn thaT? sheeesh

Here's video: https://youtu.be/aMYYEsKvHvk

 

[aspiegamer]

So the 1km distance thing is confirmed as Chinese law? Oh man. That's a direct plug into the Government being party to the disaster. Apparently the censoring wasn't sufficient if this has become known information to the public there. People are going to be pissed, and rightfully so.

 

[dramatis]

So the 1km distance thing is confirmed as Chinese law? Oh man. That's a direct plug into the Government being party to the disaster. Apparently the censoring wasn't sufficient if this has become known information to the public there. People are going to be pissed, and rightfully so.

I think China actually has a lot of laws, it's just that few people know about them (and available services) and also that the enforcement is a bit lax, selective, or altogether ineffective.

A while back a former state media reporter, Chai Jing, made a documentary about the poor air quality of China. In it she interviews government personnel as well and even they lack the authority to actually enforce laws, because of confusing responsibility division.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Just out of curiosity, were any of them as big as this one? Because this one seems insanely huge.

Also does anyone know how far from the explosion the American guy filming was?

In the Air Force, my AFSC was Munitions so I got to build large munitions bombs and missiles. This is just one of the many bombs we built.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fc8bgf1pGk

Granted, the Chinese explosion is larger due to a higher concentration of materials in that area, but you get the idea.

 

[Blablurn]

Will Ripley @willripleyCNN

#breaking Armed police evacuating everyone within 3km of #Tianjin blast site, including shelter we reported from Friday - Beijing News

Time to shut down the scene

 

[Iolo]

@Bill_Ide: #Tianjinblast @xinjingbao report cites police saying sodium cyanide has been detected east of the blast site. #voaalert

Also, Xinhua evidently reporting the fire has reignited and more explosions have occurred.

 

[BorkBork]

Saw this on my Facebook feed. Not sure on source or if it's been altered. But good lord if it's real.

 

[inner-G]

Saw this on my Facebook feed. Not sure on source or if it's been altered. But good lord if it's real.

Looks real to me. Those maroon things are (were) shipping containers