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[Stereogatari]

The death total could easily have been s larger or greater than Paris had it not been for one man.

On a side note: It's beyond depressing to see that this thread is all of 2 pages (with a lot of the conversation questioning if it was a tragedy) whilst the Paris thread is now currently at page 152.

http://mic.com/articles/128551/terr...anon-kills-43-and-injures-hundreds#.VBjMyUasI

I'm also a little miffed at the lesser coverage of tragedies from non-Western European countries, but that's how it is. Western World / World as a whole gives a shit about what happens in the "important" countries than what happens in Lebanon or Turkey or Egypt/Russia.

Id like to know what percentage of GAF users are from USA, UK, first world European countries and Australia. The thread hits are probably more reflected of the fact that its easier for the majority of people on GAF can relate to living in Paris easier than living in Beruit, hence, the Paris attack is scarier.

That's me speaking as an Australian. I have been to Paris and walked around it. I know Australia has similar security measures which the French use at sporting events and around the cities and policing etc, yet there are still 120 people killed which makes me feel unsafe.

I haven't been to Beruit, or even know the slightest about what security measures they implement to reduce the chance of terrorist attack. So its harder for me to relate to that bombing unfortunately.

While this is true, it's kind of annoying because cities like Beirut or Ankara are not a million miles off what Western cities are like. But in peoples minds they just get lost and blurred into "Middle Eastern city" so people probably accept things like this are more normal there than Paris, but really they aren't.

 

[theignoramus]

3 pages. This is emblematic, really.

To be perfectly fair, violence in Beirut occurs much more often than it does in Paris, whether from Israel bombing it from the sky or outbursts of sectarian violence on the ground.
So that sort of contributes. But there's definitely a racial and cultural element to how one tragedy is perceived versus another.

 

[mcz117chief]

The death total could easily have been s larger or greater than Paris had it not been for one man.

A true hero! Giving his life to save others. Tragic yet beautiful.

 

[The Artisan]

3 pages. This is emblematic, really.

how do you mean?

 

[Jag]

how do you mean?

Compared to how the Paris thread soared in page count in minutes. This thread was only 2 pages until Paris.

 

[ebullientprism]

Id like to know what percentage of GAF users are from USA, UK, first world European countries and Australia. The thread hits are probably more reflected of the fact that its easier for the majority of people on GAF can relate to living in Paris easier than living in Beruit, hence, the Paris attack is scarier.

That's me speaking as an Australian. I have been to Paris and walked around it. I know Australia has similar security measures which the French use at sporting events and around the cities and policing etc, yet there are still 120 people killed which makes me feel unsafe.

I haven't been to Beruit, or even know the slightest about what security measures they implement to reduce the chance of terrorist attack. So its harder for me to relate to that bombing unfortunately.

It isn't just Gaf though. Or even the western media. I mean here in India Paris attacks are on the news basically 24x7. Everyone knows about it and is talking about it.

Talk about Beirut and you just get blank looks.

Edit. Admittedly it might also be because the Paris attacks attacks bear a striking resemblance to the Mumbai attacks from 2011.

 

[Kater]

Wow, the man in the OP that tackled the suicide bomber is a real hero. Not that it's any good for the family. I wish all the people that lost someone during this attack the best. Terrible times they have to go through.

 

[Suen]

Twelver shia believe that the Imam himself, the 12th imam, is alive. But Ayatullah Khamenei isn't that leader. Essentially, shia fall itno two man ideologies:

Those that believe in interpreting the hadiths, Qu'ran, etc. to make new rulings- much larger
Those that don't

In the first group , the ones who can do so- the marja, are scholars who have reached a high enough point in their studying and understanding such that they may issue ruling, fatwas, etc.These are mainly in regards to things that aren't entirely clarified, such as praying in a plane, to the responsibility of more major things, such as Qoms, the donation of a certain percentage of your income to be used for charity or other religious projects (iirc the Al-Askari Mosque is partially being rebuilt with funds from Qoms)

At the age of adulthood, you're supposed to do the research and decide upon a marja based on the qualification, so far as you can figure out, of who is "most knowledgeable"

Ayatullah Khamenei isn't even the marja with the largest number of followers. This is actually Ayatullah Syed Sistani, who lives in Najaf, Iraq.

I read some more into this topic a few months ago actually, and it was interesting to see how different the Marjaiya in Iraq and Iran are, at least the one in Iraq is quite different from the one based on Khomeini's ideology in Iran. The marjaiya in Iran, from my understanding, believes in mixing state and religion while the marjaiya in Iraq has historically been for separation between religion and the state. I think I read some news recently that said that the marjaiya in Iraq/Najaf was getting "pissed" at the increasing influence of the ones from Iran because it kind of goes against the way they it has been in Iraq. Interestingly enough that Sistani guy is (I think...) for separation between religion and state.

Sorry for the totally unrelated post to the topic, just thought it would be interesting to share some stuff I read.

 

[SteveO409]

“When my people died, no country bothered to light up its landmarks in the colors of their flag,” Elie Fares, a Lebanese doctor, wrote on his blog. “When my people died, they did not send the world into mourning. Their death was but an irrelevant fleck along the international news cycle, something that happens in THOSE parts of the world.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/world/middleeast/beirut-lebanon-attacks-paris.html


Very chilling words but he is absolutely right... the world is so messed up

 

[reckless]

Wow that man is a hero for tackling the suicide bomber.

 

[Sami+]

Showed my dad the picture of Adel Termos in the OP.

"He's Shi'i though. They're just as bad. Hezbollah bleeding into Syria and killing people."
"He potentially saved hundreds of people man."
"His people."

I really fucking hate the Middle East. It makes me fucking sick that I can almost sympathize with the Westerners that are scared of us Arabs just because our culture is so full of hatred for almost everyone.

RIP to the innocents that died and the heroes that did what they could.

 

[Suen]

I'm also a little miffed at the lesser coverage of tragedies from non-Western European countries, but that's how it is. Western World / World as a whole gives a shit about what happens in the "important" countries than what happens in Lebanon or Turkey or Egypt/Russia.



While this is true, it's kind of annoying because cities like Beirut or Ankara are not a million miles off what Western cities are like. But in peoples minds they just get lost and blurred into "Middle Eastern city" so people probably accept things like this are more normal there than Paris, but really they aren't.

The whole argument of "People relate to those more similar to them" falls apart when you realize that people far away from Europe, like Southeastern Asia, Eastern Asia and South America and so on ask you things like "Did you read about Paris?" and sympathize a lot. That's when you realize that "People sympathize with those they can relate to more" is just a part of the reason, but not the entire reason, and that there's in fact a hiearchy in the world where certain people are valued and cared for more, and those that are cared for less.

Kind of like US invading a country, then a decade or two later making a movie about all the shit their soldiers had to go through and how you have to feel sorry for them and be all like "poor them. I sympathize" while totally ignoring that these guys are a force invading a country half across the world that puts its civilians in a much more shitty situation, to the point where even evil cunts are glorified and sympathized with - see American Sniper and some of the reactions to it.

How much you can relate to people and how close they are to you geographically yes, those are definitely factors, but so are the global influence and the power of the media from countries that have gone through something terrible.

edit: I'd even like to add that it's not the whole Europe but Western Europe in specific. As that Resident_UA or something pointed out in another thread, suffering East Europeans have to go through get less attention as well.

 

[reckless]

“When my people died, no country bothered to light up its landmarks in the colors of their flag,” Elie Fares, a Lebanese doctor, wrote on his blog. “When my people died, they did not send the world into mourning. Their death was but an irrelevant fleck along the international news cycle, something that happens in THOSE parts of the world.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/world/middleeast/beirut-lebanon-attacks-paris.html


Very chilling words but he is absolutely right... the world is so messed up

The problem is most people just think of the "Middle East", and all they hear about it is Iraq and Syria or terrorist attacks. It's pretty much just become routine.

Paris being such a cultural icon also helps make it easier to sympathize, even if you've never been to Paris everyone has seen it countless times through the Media (in a positive light), can't really say the same about Beirut.

It's similar to the reason why its pretty common for a dozen people to be shot each weekend in Chicago but that isn't national news(14 shot so far this weekend), its just become routine and people just start ignoring it because that just happens "over there".

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Apparently his daughter didn't end up dying which is very heart lifting.

RIP to the man.

..poor kid.

 

[Sami+]

Yeah, I think I'm done with social media for today.

Or maybe a couple of weeks.

"It's a way of life" is some really gross shit to say. Saw it on my FB feed too - "I know there are children starving in Africa but they're poor and that's just their way of life. Right now we should mourn Paris." Lol, fuck off man. I don't even bother responding to that shit.

 

[Jag]

I really fucking hate the Middle East. It makes me fucking sick that I can almost sympathize with the Westerners that are scared of us Arabs just because our culture is so full of hatred for almost everyone.

Westerners have plenty of hatred too and helped to create this situation that affects us all. The trick now is to figure out how to fix it.

 

[Man God]

Paris is one of the most visited places on the entire planet.

 

[LNBL]

Paris is one of the most visited places on the entire planet.

So what? Nobody is saying they do not understand why Paris get's so much attention. It's the fact that nobody seems to give a damn about the people in the Middle east when attacks happen that upsets.

 

[Jito]

So what? Nobody is saying they do not understand why Paris get's so much attention. It's the fact that nobody seems to give a damn about the people in the Middle east when attacks happan that upsets.

Is this a competition or something? Perhaps people have been personally effected, perhaps it has to do with it being closer to home, could be plenty of reasons but to suggest people don't care is disgusting. Just because people aren't posting in a thread about it doesn't mean they don't care, stop spinning up drama over the loss of human life and mourn the dead respectfully instead.

 

[jayu26]

Came to pay respect to Adel Termos. I hope his two kids pull through this tragedy.

 

[Dusktildawn48]

As a Muslim from a Shia family, people who say all Islam is the same can fuck right off.

It really gets to me when people post shit like that on facebook.

 

[LNBL]

Is this a competition or something? Perhaps people have been personally effected, perhaps it has to do with it being closer to home, could be plenty of reasons but to suggest people don't care is disgusting. Just because people aren't posting in a thread about it doesn't mean they don't care, stop spinning up drama over the loss of human life and mourn the dead respectfully instead.

Who said it's a competition? Do you think i'm downsizing any of these horrors in comparison to the other?

I'm not spinning anything. The fact that these bombing barely got any media attention or just got mentioned to the smallest extent, while these innocent people got attacked by the same murderous terrorist scum is something that upsets me, yes. And it's because I mourn my fellow countrymens innocent lives that I want more people to notice. So yes, people do not care as much in my opinion.

 

[Kaako]

Adel Termos is a true fucking hero! R.I.P to all the innocent lives lost.

 

[RangerX]

Its quite sad how few pages this thread has compared to the Paris attack thread.

 

[Jito]

Who said it's a competition? Do you think i'm downsizing any of these horrors in comparison to the other?

I'm not spinning anything. The fact that these bombing barely got any media attention or just got mentioned to the smallest extent, while these innocent people got attacked by the same murderous terrorist scum is something that upsets me, yes. And it's because I mourn my fellow countrymens innocent lives that I want more people to notice. So yes, people do not care as much in my opinion.

I'm asking you if it's competition, comparing thread page count and the media response suggests it is.

It's sad you think that really man, I'll just leave it at that before this argument detracts from the real topic at hand.

 

[| Praxis |]

Is this a competition or something? Perhaps people have been personally effected, perhaps it has to do with it being closer to home, could be plenty of reasons but to suggest people don't care is disgusting. Just because people aren't posting in a thread about it doesn't mean they don't care, stop spinning up drama over the loss of human life and mourn the dead respectfully instead.

True.

The nature of the attacks are completely different as well.

The news has reported on suicide bombings for years, in all kinds of countries. The suicide bombings in Paris aren't even the leading headline of the story. The news (at least in the UK) has been warning of an attack similar to the one in Mumbai for years, and it finally just happened.

Not only were there suicide bombs, but there were drive by shootings and a hostage (slaughter) situation at a rock show. Paris is also a very famous city that has barely recovered from the other attacks that happened. It's a narrative the news has been following for over a year. It has many more moving parts than just two suicide bombs, as awful as that is to say.

The country hasn't seen violence on this scale since WW2, so it's unfortunately a bigger and more shocking story.

 

[Firest0rm]

Showed my dad the picture of Adel Termos in the OP.

"He's Shi'i though. They're just as bad. Hezbollah bleeding into Syria and killing people."
"He potentially saved hundreds of people man."
"His people."

I really fucking hate the Middle East. It makes me fucking sick that I can almost sympathize with the Westerners that are scared of us Arabs just because our culture is so full of hatred for almost everyone.

RIP to the innocents that died and the heroes that did what they could.

This is the problem, and the Middle East will never see peace until Arabs drop their intolerance of the other (I say this as an Arab). The new generation of Arabs needs to step beyond the mentality of our older generation and their broken ideologies, both of Arab nationalism and political Islamic parties. Both of which are built on black and white visions of the region and the world.

 

[Beefy]

Termos is a hero! RIP to him and the others killed in this disgusting act. Shame the western media couldn't talk more about this to givr it coverage.

 

[Rush_Khan]

I will remember the name, Adel Termos. A real hero.

 

[m3k]

I didn't know of Abel but he deserves to be known. I think it is simplistic to say that people don't care about Beirut. Sure some don't but some people do not know about the middle east. Ignorance born out of unfamiliarity and poor education is not necessarily malicious or racist.

Anyway I think people should be more concerned about what will happen now in response to Isis trying to cause havoc out of Syria and Iraq as they lose ground in conventional battlefields. Not what social media or the media at large comments on.

 

[Clockwork5]

A tragic loss of innocent life. The cruelty involved in these terrorist attacks juxtaposed with the unbelievable heroism on display from bravest people imaginable just leaves me speechless.

RIP.

 

[Sami+]

This is the problem, and the Middle East will never see peace until Arabs drop their intolerance of the other (I say this as an Arab). The new generation of Arabs needs to step beyond the mentality of our older generation and their broken ideologies, both of Arab nationalism and political Islamic parties. Both of which are built on black and white visions of the region and the world.

I really hope we can. The unification of the world through communication and popular culture has made the more draconian views in the Middle East a real fucking mess for everyone on both sides, but in an ideal world kids born in places like Jordan or Iran will have access to the internet and learn about the world from a better perspective.

 

[shinobi602]

I used to walk these streets with my friends when I was a boy. Went to school not far from the sites of the bombings. I know a lot of people there, good people, kind people...

I have a lot of family that live in that neighborhood, who thankfully weren't nearby at the time.

I wish the media cared as much about this. It feels like no one cares. This hits home so bad. RIP everybody.

 

[Booshka]

Damn Adel Termos is a bonafide Hero.

Tragic story, glad he could help make it less tragic though.

 

[Mikeside]

Adel is a genuine hero & gave his life to save others. He deserves all the respect in the world & I very much hope his sacrifice gets more attention in the media, because his legacy deserves to be known over the world.

 

[excelsiorlef]

To be perfectly fair, violence in Beirut occurs much more often than it does in Paris, whether from Israel bombing it from the sky or outbursts of sectarian violence on the ground.
So that sort of contributes. But there's definitely a racial and cultural element to how one tragedy is perceived versus another.

This was the biggest terror attack there in 25 years.

 

[deathkiller]

Compared to how the Paris thread soared in page count in minutes. This thread was only 2 pages until Paris.

Because people found in this an opportunity to feel superior to those only grieved for the Paris attack victims. A dozen terrorist attacks in the last year caused more victims than the Paris attack but only now people are outraged for the lack of attention to other attacks.

This a sad situation and I grieve for all the victims of terrorism, in my case I go through Atocha in train most days where almost 200 people were killed in 2004 by terrorists. Even then you cannot ask anyone to grieve the same for their neighbours countrymen deaths as for people from countries that they don't know, that would be irrational. Nobody does that.

PD: This post may had come as too harsh, I just don't like when people nitpick those who grieve for not grieving in a more "universal" way. Sorry if I have offended anyone.

 

[spineduke]

Because people found in this an opportunity to feel superior to those only grieved for the Paris attack victims.

Uh no? There's no superiority here - I think it's partly information overflow, partly media focus on first world affairs. I personally had no idea about the Kenya massacre in April until someone recently reshared them on FB today, so I can understand how others can overlook Beirut. That said, I don't know how I feel about FB launching French profile stickers or Youtube dedicating a special button for French news. Right now, it comes off as a privileged first world "benefit".

 

[LNBL]

I used to walk these streets with my friends when I was a boy. Went to school not far from the sites of the bombings. I know a lot of people there, good people, kind people...

I have a lot of family that live in that neighborhood, who thankfully weren't nearby at the time.

I wish the media cared as much about this. It feels like no one cares. This hits home so bad. RIP everybody.

Damn never knew you were Lebanese as well Shinobi, it's scary indeed. My family luckily lives in another part of Beirut, but it's still terrifying. Happy your relatives are safe.

 

[Samoora]

Hey gaf. I live 3km (~2mi) from where this happened. Lost 2 ppl from work (university hospital) becuase of the bombing. Honestly all this discussion looks pantomime. Put away your shit and be people with your loved ones

 

[Usobuko]

Because people found in this an opportunity to feel superior to those only grieved for the Paris attack victims. A dozen terrorist attacks in the last year caused more victims than the Paris attack but only now people are outraged for the lack of attention to other attacks.

There is no ideal metric to use and measure tragedies pertaining to the loss of human lives. They are all unfortunate and terrible events. Pointing out that the world has always been USA-Western EU centric is not trying put oneself on a higher moral plane than those who only knew about Paris incident.

Instead, what is intended is for people to empathize with other human beings even if they don't see/read them as much on media. This is better than some people viewing the events as isolated incidents that only frequently happened in Middle East and thus a 'way of life' there.

 

[Hyperactivity]

True.

The nature of the attacks are completely different as well.

The news has reported on suicide bombings for years, in all kinds of countries. The suicide bombings in Paris aren't even the leading headline of the story. The news (at least in the UK) has been warning of an attack similar to the one in Mumbai for years, and it finally just happened.

Not only were there suicide bombs, but there were drive by shootings and a hostage (slaughter) situation at a rock show. Paris is also a very famous city that has barely recovered from the other attacks that happened. It's a narrative the news has been following for over a year. It has many more moving parts than just two suicide bombs, as awful as that is to say.

The country hasn't seen violence on this scale since WW2, so it's unfortunately a bigger and more shocking story.

But what about the Peshawar school massacre? Similar scale, and as far as I recall a school shooting to that scale was pretty unprecedented.

But again, next to zip in regards to media coverage when compared to other attacks to a lesser scale.

 

[Suen]

Here's footage from a security camera that captured the moment before and after the suicide bomber blew himself up.

Warning - you don't see much after the explosion because it's filled with smoke and dust so there's barely any gore visible but if you're sensitive to stuff like this then don't open the link.

Footage

The Western media's "Hezbollah Bastion" and "Hezbolla stronghold".

 

[Breakage]

Not a user, but I noticed that Facebook has introduced a French flag filter for its users yet there isn't one available for Lebanon.
RIP

 

[pgtl_10]

Yes Hezbollah has killed more Americans than IS. The US wasn't occupying Beirut, they were there as part of a peacekeeping mission at the request of the Lebanese government. Hezbollah blew them and the French up with truck bombs just like IS terrorists do today. Fuck Hezbollah.



I'm not implying they were targeting a military position at all. The fact is they were targeting a Hezbollah stronghold. Neither side really cares if the targets are military or civilian. Only two weeks ago Assad's forces dropped a barrel bomb on a market bustling with innocent people, killing 55, because it is a stronghold of Jaysh al-Islam. How do you feel about that?

This assessment is too simplistic. The US bombed a few pin Lebanon on behalf one group. Hezbollah retaliated.

 

[pgtl_10]

Kinda weird to see Israel fans acting as ISIS apologists.

Not really. Hezbollah is responsible for Israel's colonization efforts in Lebanon. Israel will forever hate Hezbollah for that.

 

[pgtl_10]

We'd definitely be in a much better position to appropriately deal with these issues if Westerners showed the solidarity, compassion and empathy for non-Westerners that they do for Westerners :/

I echo this sentiment. This thread started off in a disgusting way.

Edit: Sorry for triple post.

 

[spineduke]

I'm going to say, some people in my Lebanese circles expressed solidarity with what happened in Paris but didn't open their mouths about what happened in Dahieh (yes, they were Christian). It's sad that even some of our own people care more about Paris than their own home country.

 

[Azih]

Not really. Hezbollah is responsible for Israel's colonization efforts in Lebanon. Israel will forever hate Hezbollah for that.

Wha? Hezbollah was created because Israel chased Palestinian fighters into Southern Lebanon in a heavy handed way and occupied the region and the residents organized into groups like Hezbollah as a response.

 

[Chuckie]

Apparently his daughter didn't end up dying which is very heart lifting.

RIP to the man.

I am glad she didn't die.

Her dad is a true hero.