May 20 - Draw Mohammed Day

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Jexhius said:
Not really a group I want to pander to at all, just a possible result of the whole affair which is a concern some people could have. I personally find it problematic that people turn to such beliefs, but I understand why it can (and does happen).



So you would sacrifice a city of people so you could maintain your right to draw a picture?

I don't think you would or should, because that is fetishising rights above human life. Obviously both are important, but actual people are the most important things. Temporarily laying down your right to free speech is a small cost to protect human life.

It does raise the problem of falling pray to terrorist groups, but in an ideal world that situation would never have come up anyway. I'm suggesting that if you had to choose one or another, and if it had no other consequences, you should chose (b).
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A whole city? No, you are right. But I would fight against those people with everything at my disposal to prevent threats like that being effective. The trouble is it would not be a temporary laying down of freedom of speech, it would be done again, and again, and again. But if it was a threat of violence (which it is) or giving up a fundamental right - I'll choose the fundamental right every time. I don't think I'm fetishising human rights above the right to live. I feel that without human rights, life isn't worth living.
 
crazy monkey said:
hate speech veiled as freedom of speech yes against it . show me all my behavior here please? since you know what I have said here all this time. People are getting wrong signals instead of what ever you are trying to convey.
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Ah, so drawing Mohammed is hate speech huh. I guess everything is hate speech if you're offended this easily. And I think most people here know how you see things, your first post in this thread says enough imo:

crazy monkey said:
and you ask why people hate west some times. some muslim in small afghan village or iraq or any other country will read this in news paper and what do you think he will think? There is no point to it. Stupid site owner did this probably to get famous and more stupid people will do more stupid thing.
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Yeah, everyone is stupid and deserves hate, except for the morons that decide to be highly offended by irrelevant stuff.
 
Calantus said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8691406.stm?

:lol
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It seriously blows my mind that there are people that think this is the way a human being is supposed to look.
 
idahoblue said:
A whole city? No, you are right. But I would fight against those people with everything at my disposal to prevent threats like that being effective. The trouble is it would not be a temporary laying down of freedom of speech, it would be done again, and again, and again. But if it was a threat of violence (which it is) or giving up a fundamental right - I'll choose the fundamental right every time. I don't think I'm fetishising human rights above the right to live. I feel that without human rights, life isn't worth living.
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I agree. I was simply saying that if you were to stick with rights over a whole city then you would be fetishising. But as you aren't, you aren't.
 
Is there a description of what Mohammad looks like in the Qur'an, or any other texts dating from his lifetime (or just after) - or are people just drawing a random olive skinned dude with a beard?
 
Jexhius said:
I'm glad you're bringing some more stupid to this.

Moderate Muslims have actually spoken out about stuff like this, reasonably often. But they get played in the press coverage once or twice. Extreme Muslims obviously get far more coverage because that kind of story is far more interesting and inflammatory and so we see their images hundreds of times over.
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This is the problem. Merely saying "I don't think it's OK to kill people over cartoons" does not count as speaking out. And that's really the bulk of what I've seen in the press from moderates. As for the ones who aren't getting coverage, OK, but these people I'd have to talk to in person. And that's just too much travel to do in a lifetime!

I don't think "the extremists" are a vocal minority so much as the moderates are a lazy majority. Why? Because they can potentially talk louder, they're just doing it all half-assed.

And really, they have to. I know if I were a part of a group that meant so much to me I'd be hesitant to speak. But shit, people have died over this! That changes things a bit, doesn't it?

All this text, and all I've really said was "No, they haven't." I need to cut down on the useless filler crap! :/
 
crazy monkey said:
hate speech veiled as freedom of speech yes against it . show me all my behavior here please? since you know what I have said here all this time. People are getting wrong signals instead of what ever you are trying to convey.
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Someone explain why drawing Muhammad is hate speech. I don't remember it being forbidden or against the law or meant to intimidate anyone because of their religion. In fact, wouldn't the artists be considered victims of hate speech?

If you want to go with the broad definition of hate speech, burning the American flag or stereotyping Americans would be considered hate speech as well.
 
SimpleDesign said:
Someone explain why drawing Muhammad is hate speech. I don't remember it being forbidden or against the law or meant to intimidate anyone because of their religion. In fact, wouldn't the artists be considered victims of hate speech?

If you want to go with the broad definition of hate speech, burning the American flag or stereotyping Americans would be considered hate speech as well.
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It's actually illegal to burn flags in plenty of western countries, made a thread about flag burning in France a while ago but it's not really a part of hate speech legislation. There are plenty of compromises to free speech in various countries that are otherwise regarded as "free" and liberal.

I personally am not of the opinion that committing a religious taboo should be legally restricted, it's just something I try to avoid out of common decency and respect.
 
water_wendi said:
:lol at the sacrifice a city. Every time you draw Mohammed, Allah kills an infidel.
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I simply aimed to draw out a tension between the value of rights and the value of human life.

I even mentioned that it was nothing like the current situation, which it isn't. This situation is based around threats.
 
Dabookerman said:
Oh most certainly. I was simply being ironic. The amount of "west" haters who live in the west is laughable. I could never understand. I could say how much I hate Saudi Arabia, and you'd never see me step foot in there for a million years.
Fuck off if you hate the west so much. /rant
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Hey if you can't understand negative sentiment towards the west then maybe you should learn some history before telling people to fuck off.

Also the "east" can very much be a repressive paternalistic homophobic shithole. I got my bases covered here.
 
Mecha_Infantry said:
It's a bit like having a kid at school that can't pronounce his R's, and someone gets him to repeatedly say words with R's scattered around it.

Kids..that's the morale of this story. Stupid day, and only stupid provocative idiots will participate tomorrow.
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So you're saying Muslims have a religious impediment?
 
neorej said:
No, there are examples to draw from...

...

Which makes the whole "we can't draw Mohammed, so you can't either"-thing even more hypocrit.
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We need to assemble a task force to go back in time and assassinate these rogue Muslims
 
crazy monkey said:
I was liberal a few years ago but not anymore. conservative it is.
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How convenient for your argument.

hate speech veiled as freedom of speech yes against it.
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"veiled as freedom of speech," why do people keep using this phrase? What, you think we don't actually care about freedom of speech, we're secretly just a bunch of redneck republican racists or something?

Trust me, those people don't bother pretending.
 
Mecha_Infantry said:
It's a bit like having a kid at school that can't pronounce his R's, and someone gets him to repeatedly say words with R's scattered around it.

Kids..that's the morale of this story. Stupid day, and only stupid provocative idiots will participate tomorrow.
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Actually, that's called Speech class and did wonders for me and my mispronunciation of R's.
 
hate speech veiled as freedom of speech yes against it.
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I do hate the people who say we shouldn't be doing this, you're right. Unfortunately, freedom of speech is my own personal religion and just as they hate us merely because we're drawing Mohammed, I hate them merely because they say we shouldn't. In fact this is only happening at all because they say we shouldn't (or indeed can't).

They say it offends them to draw Mohammad. It offends me when they say I can't. And I'll win.
 
crazy monkey said:
how it is irrelevant? Irrelevant for you sure.
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It's a drawing. Of some dude from the middle-ages. If you get riled up over that maybe you should gtfo of western society because frankly good sir, you don't belong here.
 
Nexus Zero said:
I do hate the people who say we shouldn't be doing this, you're right. Unfortunately, freedom of speech is my own personal religion and just as they hate us merely because we're drawing Mohammed, I hate them merely because they say we shouldn't. In fact this is only happening at all because they say we shouldn't (or indeed can't).

They say it offends them to draw Mohammad. It offends me when they say I can't. And I'll win.
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As has been mentioned, they not only said it was offensive, they say they'll kill people who do it. Thats the tiny difference.
 
Seriously now. Grow up.

If your god is so pathetic that it is harmed by little stick figure drawings then when kind of god is that? A pretty wimpy one.

Get over it.

capt.1dbfe2e8eb264176851007db5a3f32df-1dbfe2e8eb264176851007db5a3f32df-0.jpg



LAHORE, Pakistan – Pakistan's government ordered Internet service providers to block Facebook on Wednesday amid anger over a page that encourages users to post images of Islam's Prophet Muhammad.

The page on the social networking site has generated criticism in Pakistan and elsewhere because Islam prohibits any images of the prophet. The government took action after a group of Islamic lawyers won a court order Wednesday requiring officials to block Facebook until May 31.

By Wednesday evening, access to the site was sporadic, apparently because Internet providers were implementing the order.

The Facebook page at the center of the dispute — "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!" — encourages users to post images of the prophet on May 20 to protest threats made by a radical Muslim group against the creators of "South Park" for depicting Muhammad in a bear suit during an episode earlier this year.

In the southern city of Karachi, about 2,000 female students rallied demanding that Facebook be banned for tolerating the page. Several dozen male students held a rally nearby, with some holding signs urging Islamic holy war against those who blaspheme the prophet.

"We are not trying to slander the average Muslim," said the information section of the Facebook page, which was still accessible Wednesday morning. "We simply want to show the extremists that threaten to harm people because of their Mohammad depictions that we're not afraid of them. That they can't take away our right to freedom of speech by trying to scare us into silence."
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook


Most people will get bored and stop drawing Mohammed when you stop getting all worked up about it.

Mohammed.png
 
Hate speech? Hate speech can only be about living humans. Saying "All Muslims should die." might be hate speech.

But religion itself and long-dead profit are things subject to criticism. Look . . . if criticizing Islam is hate speech then this entire protest is also hate speech. They are criticizing the views that I hold sacred . . . things like free speech being of paramount importance.
capt.1dbfe2e8eb264176851007db5a3f32df-1dbfe2e8eb264176851007db5a3f32df-0.jpg


Holy smokes . . . the Quran itself if FILLED with hate speech. If you wanna try to use that excuse then we need to ban the Quran itself!
 
Okay I've been following this thread closely and I'm really fucking offended
that you aren't waiting until tomorrow, wtf guys?!?
 
The West is in no place at this point to criticise islam, I see much more dead Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan, in the name of freedom and democracy (pretexts). Or do you all just like feeding extremists? A manipulated public opinion is much more dangerous than a bunch of terrorists. Why do people insist on backing these motivations to further alienate millions of moderate adherents?

90% of these images will be hateful, and possible revengeful backlash will be embarassing for everyone involved.
 
vordhosbn said:
The West is in no place at this point to criticise islam, I see much more dead Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan, in the name of freedom and democracy (pretexts). Or do you all just like feeding extremists? A manipulated public opinion is much more dangerous than a bunch of terrorists. Why do people insist on backing these motivations to further alienate millions of moderate adherents?

90% of these images will be hateful, and possible revengeful backlash will be embarassing for everyone involved.
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I disagree. We're always in a place to criticize.
 
vordhosbn said:
The West is in no place at this point to criticise islam, I see much more dead Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan, in the name of freedom and democracy (pretexts). Or do you all just like feeding extremists? A manipulated public opinion is much more dangerous than a bunch of terrorists. Why do people insist on backing these motivations to further alienate millions of moderate adherents?

90% of these images will be hateful, and possible revengeful backlash will be embarassing for everyone involved.
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Freedom of speech. Extremists cannot get away with threatening it. Etc, etc, etc.
 
timetokill said:
I disagree. We're always in a place to criticize.
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That's not a real argument, go away.

SnakeXs said:
Freedom of speech. Extremists cannot get away with threatening it. Etc, etc, etc.
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Again with this? Realistically, I doubt it. This thread only proves that people can be persuaded very easily.
 
Cyan said:
"War in Iraq, therefore no criticism of Islam or Muslims" is a real argument?
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I think I'll let the self-described muslims answer this one in detail, except to say that theoretically, when you're invading and defragmenting muslim countries through continuous casualties and plundering...why would extremists out of all people listen to what these cartoons are supposedly illustrating?

Welcome to 2010, more bloody and stupid than 2009.
 
vordhosbn said:
I think I'll let the self-described muslims answer this one in detail, except to say that theoretically, when you're invading and defragmenting muslim countries through continuous casualties and plundering...why would extremists out of all people listen to what these cartoons are supposedly illustrating?

Welcome to 2010, more bloody and stupid than 2009.
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So really you're saying no credibility in criticizing. That I can at least understand.
 
Clipjoint said:
I can't decide who is more immature in all this - the people getting upset by the drawings, or the ones drawing them.
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Then you, friend, have successfully seen the point!
 
One wonders whether anyone high profile will contribute to this "exercise" as it were, or whether the day will simply go by unnoticed
 
Clipjoint said:
I can't decide who is more immature in all this - the people getting upset by the drawings, or the ones drawing them.
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People who harp on the glories of maturity are the most immature people I know. I'd also like to pretend that I'm above this silly debate, but the fact is the "freedom" side is right and the "frothing outrage" side is wrong.
 
Immature to be funny != Immature as a person

3 Stooges > Dennis Rodman

This thread is hysterical because making fun of people that are immature from their very core is and always will be classic comedy.
 
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