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May 7th | UK General Election 2015 OT - Please go vote!

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C

CyclopsRock

Member
QuicheFontaine said:
There would be a LOT of joke MPs with this system. I don't think I ever saw a team beat the dome.
Click to expand...

They only won a trip to the New Forest or something anyway. Now I love the New Forest, but I loved The Aztec Zone even more. MUMSY!

Edit: Also, sorry to our non-British friends reading this thread. It just suddenly became a whole lot more esoteric.
 
S

Sir_Crocodile

Member
prospective mp's should have to complete knightmare while teamed up with peope from other parties to ensure they have the intelligence and bipartisanship to succeed

Although this would give us a 5 MP chamber, there were probably still more people who beat the dome then ever won knightmare
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
Sir_Crocodile said:
prospective mp's should have to complete knightmare while teamed up with peope from other parties to ensure they have the intelligence and bipartisanship to succeed

Although this would give us a 5 MP chamber, there were probably still more people who beat the dome then ever won knightmare
Click to expand...

I think they should do the Crystal Maze, with expense claims forms as the gold tickets in the Crystal Dome at the end.
 
T

tomtom94

Member
You can have Knightmare to choose MPs so long as this guy chooses the Prime Minister:

151085-Raven-12460360780.jpg
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
JonathanEx said:
What's the difference to now then ahahahahahah
Click to expand...

lol satire

Sir_Crocodile said:
prospective mp's should have to complete knightmare while teamed up with peope from other parties to ensure they have the intelligence and bipartisanship to succeed

Although this would give us a 5 MP chamber, there were probably still more people who beat the dome then ever won knightmare
Click to expand...

Bah, winning Knightmare was based on luck as much as anything. First room: there's a table with a block of cheese, a golden chalice and a spyglass. You can only take one.

If you don't take the cheese you're FUCKED about half an hour from now.
 
K

kmag

Member
zomgbbqftw said:
Another trap is being set for Ed Miliband. George refuses to rule out NHS cuts for a week or so, Ed challenges Dave on the NHS in the debate and Dave confirms 2.5% real terms annual NHS spending rises with the Tories. Labour walked into it with the VAT stuff, let's see if they aren't as stupid as they look and avoid this one.
Click to expand...

Well today Cameron said

Cameron implied even more money could come from efficiencies. Asked about funding the plan, he told Sarah Montague:
We have funded the first part of that, with £2bn extra in the coming year, and we have said that combined with efficiencies and the extra spending we are going to put in, we are confident we can achieve the Stevens plan in full.
But, when she pressed him why he would not confirm that he would spend an extra £8bn, he replied:

It depends how much you save from efficiencies.
Click to expand...

If it's a trap, it's being done pretty cackhandedly because if he's not guaranteeing the £8bn now due to the ambiguous nature of what can be saved through efficiencies then he'll look pretty silly if he magically finds a guarantee on Thursday.
 
S

Sir_Crocodile

Member
QuicheFontaine said:
Bah, winning Knightmare was based on luck as much as anything. First room: there's a table with a block of cheese, a golden chalice and a spyglass. You can only take one.

If you don't take the cheese you're FUCKED about half an hour from now.
Click to expand...

How else would we get Treguard cutting off the kids in mid conversation after they lost and smugly say SPELLCASTING, D I S M I S S so often?

best part off the show right there
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
When I was at "animation school", at the end of the first year - in order to get an appreciation of our roots - we had to do a week long bit of what was termed "traditional" animation. Ours was an all-digital animation course so this meant basically anything from a flip book to stop motion, but we were thrown into groups and had all the labs available to us for that week. (In hindsight it was quite clearly so the lecturors could mark other work, but it was quite fun). My group did a Thomas the Tank Engine vs The Fat Controller thing (I cringe, I cringe) but another group did a whole pixilation animation (this is basically stop motion but with objects and/or people rather than clay, so a chair appearing to move across a room by itself for example) based around Knightmare. I wish I could find it now because it was fucking hilarious but they utterly nailed the aesthetic and added in so many jokes.

I'm bored at work or else I wouldn't have typed this.
 
I

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I'd say the Scottish voting system is a good example for Westminster to follow, but what the SNP did to it in 2011 was the equivalent of being so good at a video game that you break it and it starts glitching the fuck out of your high scores.

Or to put it simply:

SABwSJ9.png


More votes than Labour and Tories combined, yet no extra representation.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
Cleggmania happened in 2010 and the Lib Dems net lost five seats.

The Alliance formed and stood in 1983, got extremely close to beating Labour in the popular vote and ended up with circa 30 seats, iirc at least a fifth (a seventh maybe) of Labour's share. John Cleese did a PPB on it which is the greatest illustration of how broken the system is that exists.

If Scotland had voted for independence last year, under FPTP it would become nearly impossible for the Tories to not be in government.

About a quarter of the voting populace... probably more in England? ... vote away from the two party system, which has only done one thing in recent memory - get the LDs into goverment as a junior partner, get slaughtered in the polls and plunge Britain back into the old Lab/Con reality, except with now the third most popular party by poll in England consisting of the racist rich.

There is a very real and terrifying chance that the UKIP train doesn't stop and they replace the LDs as the third party, if not at this election then at the next.

Not that it matters, because no matter what - and the English voting public has made this very clear - there must only ever be a choice between Red and Blue, the current government or the other guys.

Ugh.
 
A

anonymous_abc

Member
CyclopsRock said:
When I was at "animation school", at the end of the first year - in order to get an appreciation of our roots - we had to do a week long bit of what was termed "traditional" animation. Ours was an all-digital animation course so this meant basically anything from a flip book to stop motion, but we were thrown into groups and had all the labs available to us for that week. (In hindsight it was quite clearly so the lecturors could mark other work, but it was quite fun). My group did a Thomas the Tank Engine vs The Fat Controller thing (I cringe, I cringe) but another group did a whole pixilation animation (this is basically stop motion but with objects and/or people rather than clay, so a chair appearing to move across a room by itself for example) based around Knightmare. I wish I could find it now because it was fucking hilarious but they utterly nailed the aesthetic and added in so many jokes.

I'm bored at work or else I wouldn't have typed this.
Click to expand...

Complete with not one but two Wilhelm Screams... :p

I do like 50c vs Thomas though. xD
 
Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
The telegraph 100 business leaders' letter is pretty powerful stuff. A few ex labour donors on there, labour supporters rubishing it as just Tory bigwigs is a bit rich, there were plenty of open letters from businesses supporting labour during the Blair years. Labour have completely lost the support of business.

Also, as a McLaren fan, interesting to see Ron Denis on there...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ritains-recovery-say-100-business-chiefs.html
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Nicktendo86 said:
The telegraph 100 business leaders' letter is pretty powerful stuff. A few ex labour donors on there, labour supporters rubishing it as just Tory bigwigs is a bit rich, there were plenty of open letters from businesses supporting labour during the Blair years. Labour have completely lost the support of business.

Also, as a McLaren fan, interesting to see Ron Denis on there...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ritains-recovery-say-100-business-chiefs.html
Click to expand...

Every progressive economic change in history has been opposed by "business leaders." If it were up to business leaders, unions would be outlawed, there'd be no minimum wage, and safety standards would be non-existent.

Ya' know how I do this? Because that's where they push for in 3rd world countries where workers have no power.
 
Marc

Marc

Member
CyclopsRock said:
I've mentioned this before in, I guess, UKPoligaf, but since we're discussing it...


I heard an idea for a system which, at first, sounds ridiculous but the more I think about it, the less problems there are.

You have individual candidates standing for election in the same constituencies as now. Everyone casts one vote. So far, the same. BUT then instead of counting them up, you have a person pick one vote out of the (presumably very large) hat and the vote chosen is the winner. This way you get the benefits of a) small constituencies with local represenatives in parliament but b) it should be roughly - not totally, but roughly - proportional around the country. If UKIP get 10% of a voteshare in any given constiuency, they have a 1/10 chance of representing the seat. Spread out across the country, this'll give a relatively PR result.

There'll be the odd funny result like an MRLP candidate getting in somewhere, but hey, that's a price I'm willing to pay.
Click to expand...

That sounds mental. :D

I would want something like devolved constituent country parliaments, PR voting system within each with population split dictating how many seats each country has. With placement of MP representation being based on voter mapping (heat maps, whatever), we have technology for remote presence and communication so don't need to actually live there, just be able to listed. Should cut down on expenses claims anyway, I would devolve more powers to local councils anyway. :) I'd also go further with other things like having experts in the field required for certain roles, you have to have been a doctor/nurse to be a Health Secretary. Served in the military for defence etc.. Which should hopefully cut down on career politicians and force parties to seek experts with experience into joining the party.

Huw_Dawson said:
Cleggmania happened in 2010 and the Lib Dems net lost five seats.

The Alliance formed and stood in 1983, got extremely close to beating Labour in the popular vote and ended up with circa 30 seats, iirc at least a fifth (a seventh maybe) of Labour's share. John Cleese did a PPB on it which is the greatest illustration of how broken the system is that exists.

If Scotland had voted for independence last year, under FPTP it would become nearly impossible for the Tories to not be in government.

About a quarter of the voting populace... probably more in England? ... vote away from the two party system, which has only done one thing in recent memory - get the LDs into goverment as a junior partner, get slaughtered in the polls and plunge Britain back into the old Lab/Con reality, except with now the third most popular party by poll in England consisting of the racist rich.

There is a very real and terrifying chance that the UKIP train doesn't stop and they replace the LDs as the third party, if not at this election then at the next.

Not that it matters, because no matter what - and the English voting public has made this very clear - there must only ever be a choice between Red and Blue, the current government or the other guys.

Ugh.
Click to expand...

Saying all of UKIP are racist rich seems to conflict with the thread rules to me...

"- Do not attack a poster because of their party affiliation. We are above party partisan politics. Policies should, logically, dictate a poster's party affiliation
- If you are claiming something in an argument, use poll data, ONS/OBR statistics to support your argument"

Their core voters are middle-class or the white van man, which people from labour attacked in a 'racist' manner and got rightly scolded for it. They won 27.5% of the vote for the country already, I don't think there are that many rich racists in the country.

What annoys me is that clearly the party has these problems with its members, but they are pretty damn efficient in chucking those people out compared to tories/labour. Ad hominems are the debating practice of the lazy and inept, and it seems that dismissing all debate on the issues and summing them up as this or that isn't productive. Or you can just say Tories/Labour are the paedophile parties and don't deserve legitimacy.

I find it funny they terrify you for at worst having ignorant views, compared to people who literally murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people, cover up stealing from taxpayers and at least protect child molesters. I mean two major parties 'want' to murder thousands of foreigners with 'war' and UKIP do not but they are worse because a few people said ignorant shit and got thrown out of the party for it. Amazes me how a media spin will influence people's perception. You could go on forever on the shit these people have done, tried doing and continue to attempt to do like spying on us or the forced ID card shit. Making protests require approval from local police. Protecting bankers and tax dodging multinational companies while putting people in prison for not paying a few hundred quid in taxes. Hell, it is almost daily the kind of crappy things done by those in power.

The English voting public didn't want AV, that doesn't mean they want FPTP or the cons/labs. There is appetite for change but the current governments are giving very little forms of expression, which is dangerous.
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
Nicktendo86 said:
The telegraph 100 business leaders' letter is pretty powerful stuff. A few ex labour donors on there, labour supporters rubishing it as just Tory bigwigs is a bit rich, there were plenty of open letters from businesses supporting labour during the Blair years. Labour have completely lost the support of business.

Also, as a McLaren fan, interesting to see Ron Denis on there...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ritains-recovery-say-100-business-chiefs.html
Click to expand...

Business owners support the pro-business party? I'm shocked.

The only reason Blair had any wealthy donors was so that they could get kickbacks from him (see Hinduja and Ecclestone).
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
I think you guys are being too dismissive. These aren't the usual Tory donors that they wheel out whenever they need them. This has people with a previous tie to the Labour party on it.
 
G

Goodlife

Member
CyclopsRock said:
I think you guys are being too dismissive. These aren't the usual Tory donors that they wheel out whenever they need them. This has people with a previous tie to the Labour party on it.
Click to expand...

5 people?

And they were probably jumping on the Blair bandwagon.

Fuck them.
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
It's like they did the exact same thing last election and it's just part of the playbook. I guess though press might be more cynical at how blatantly orchestrated it is this time.
 
I

IdreamofHIME

Member
Labour announces they want to abolish zero hour contracts and 100 business leaders say Milliband is bad for business.

They're not even trying to be subtle about how greedy they are and how little they care about their workers.
 
F

ferrasvansen

Member
IdreamofHIME said:
Labour announces they want to abolish zero hour contracts and 100 business leaders say Milliband is bad for business.

They're not even trying to be subtle about how greedy they are and how little they care about their workers.
Click to expand...

They could not care less about the average worker, they would rather we all worked for nothing and they got richer and if they think a letter signed by 96 tory supporters and 5 Tony Blair fans will woo the UK electorate, given the outcry over tax avoidance etc, they are very much mistaken. Must admit I laughed out loud at this stunt, funniest April fool yet.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
IdreamofHIME said:
Labour announces they want to abolish zero hour contracts and 100 business leaders say Milliband is bad for business.

They're not even trying to be subtle about how greedy they are and how little they care about their workers.
Click to expand...

To be fair, the unemployment figures would probably look rather grim without zero hour contracts.

Add to that that 15% of all jobs in the UK are self employed...
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
ferrasvansen said:
They could not care less about the average worker, they would rather we all worked for nothing and they got richer and if they think a letter signed by 96 tory supporters and 5 Tony Blair fans will woo the UK electorate, given the outcry over tax avoidance etc, they are very much mistaken. Must admit I laughed out loud at this stunt, funniest April fool yet.
Click to expand...

Now, now...the tories worked really hard to erode worker rights and job security, I'm sure it was just as hard on them as it is on those who are stuck on zero hour contracts.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
Eh? Have any of you actually read the letter, or just seen a list of business leaders and gone "BIZNESS BAD"? This might come as a shock to some of you, but the nature of capitalism is that it doesn't have to be about how much you care. It's not a competition for who has the greatest level of empathy. Private sector jobs and businesses (ie b2b) exist and thrive due to mutually beneficial trade. I don't give a fuck if my employers "cares" about me; I'm here because they pay me and because it's more beneficial for them to have my labour working towards their products than it is to have the money they pay me.

As such, when business leaders come out and say "Blah blah is bad for business" - and by the way, I strongly suspect you don't and won't have the same reaction when "business leaders" come out in favour of the EU - how much they care about their workers is literally 0% related. It's not universally the case that what's bad for business is bad for people, but it's also not universally the opposite either; If you want jobs, you need businesses. So maybe we should listen to them, at least?

And whilst I'm clearly having a pre-caffeinated morning rant, whilst exclusivity zero hour contracts are hard to defend, "normal" zero hour contracts can be incredibly useful to a lot of people. They're not for everyone, but then not every job has them either. It's too easy to use them as a sacrificial lamb upon which to place all employment woes; they have a place and they should exist.
 
F

ferrasvansen

Member
CyclopsRock said:
Eh? Have any of you actually read the letter, or just seen a list of business leaders and gone "BIZNESS BAD"? This might come as a shock to some of you, but the nature of capitalism is that it doesn't have to be about how much you care. It's not a competition for who has the greatest level of empathy. Private sector jobs and businesses (ie b2b) exist and thrive due to mutually beneficial trade. I don't give a fuck if my employers "cares" about me; I'm here because they pay me and because it's more beneficial for them to have my labour working towards their products than it is to have the money they pay me.

As such, when business leaders come out and say "Blah blah is bad for business" - and by the way, I strongly suspect you don't and won't have the same reaction when "business leaders" come out in favour of the EU - how much they care about their workers is literally 0% related. It's not universally the case that what's bad for business is bad for people, but it's also not universally the opposite either; If you want jobs, you need businesses. So maybe we should listen to them, at least?

And whilst I'm clearly having a pre-caffeinated morning rant, whilst exclusivity zero hour contracts are hard to defend, "normal" zero hour contracts can be incredibly useful to a lot of people. They're not for everyone, but then not every job has them either. It's too easy to use them as a sacrificial lamb upon which to place all employment woes; they have a place and they should exist.
Click to expand...


Well to be honest if 96 of them had not been Tory donors or party members I probably would have paid attention, but frankly that negates any likelihood that what they are saying is non political, I do not need a bunch of tory grandees telling me what's right or wrong, maybe you like that thought but I certainly do not. As for being pro Europe I doubt any of them care to be honest as most of their offshore tax avoidance is likely not even in the EU, as for me does not matter if we are in or out of Europe.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
ferrasvansen said:
Well to be honest if 96 of them had not been Tory donors or party members I probably would have paid attention, but frankly that negates any likelihood that what they are saying is non political, I do not need a bunch of tory grandees telling me what's right or wrong, maybe you like that thought but I certainly do not. As for being pro Europe I doubt any of them care to be honest as most of their offshore tax avoidance is likely not even in the EU, as for me does not matter if we are in or out of Europe.
Click to expand...

Well obviously it's political - they're actively saying "don't vote for this party". You say that you might be inclined to listen if all of them weren't donors, but wouldn't that only be the case if it's a genuine belief based on what they know? And if that belief has lead them to donate to the Tories, then... Or, to put it another way, just because a union is affiliated to Labour, does that mean that everything they say about Labour and/or the Tories is not worth listening to? Presumably the same thought process that lead them to become affiliated with Labour is also driving their analysis of the situation.
 
Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
IdreamofHIME said:
Labour announces they want to abolish zero hour contracts and 100 business leaders say Milliband is bad for business.

They're not even trying to be subtle about how greedy they are and how little they care about their workers.
Click to expand...
Blair said he wanted to as well, in 1995 and they did fuck all about it in 13 years of government.
 
K

kmag

Member
CyclopsRock said:
Well obviously it's political - they're actively saying "don't vote for this party". You say that you might be inclined to listen if all of them weren't donors, but wouldn't that only be the case if it's a genuine belief based on what they know? And if that belief has lead them to donate to the Tories, then... Or, to put it another way, just because a union is affiliated to Labour, does that mean that everything they say about Labour and/or the Tories is not worth listening to? Presumably the same thought process that lead them to become affiliated with Labour is also driving their analysis of the situation.
Click to expand...

I've read the letter, there's actually fuck all in it, except they kind of like less corporation tax.

Dear Sirs,
We run some of the leading businesses in the UK. We believe this Conservative-led government has been good for business and has pursued policies which have supported investment and job creation.
David Cameron and George Osborne’s flagship policy of progressively lowering Corporation Tax to 20% has been very important in showing the UK is open for business. It has been a key part of their economic plan.
The result is that Britain grew faster than any other major economy last year and businesses like ours have created over 1.85m new jobs.
We believe a change in course will threaten jobs and deter investment. This would send a negative message about Britain and put the recovery at risk. In a personal capacity we therefore sign this letter.
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And part of the reason we grew faster last year was that we stagnated for longer than any other major economy as a result of George's first couple of years.

Don't ask me ask economists.

The Centre for Macroeconomics, which groups leading economists from Cambridge University, LSE, University College London (UCL), the Bank of England and the National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR), polled what it calls its 50 experts on whether the “austerity policies of the coalition government have had a positive effect on aggregate economic activity (employment and GDP) in the UK”.
Its result was a decisive no.
Two-thirds of the 33 economists who responded disagreed or strongly disagreed with the proposition that austerity had been good for the UK.
Now to be clear, this is not a scientifically robust poll of those who know best. But nor is the Telegraph’s letter - and those those who took part in the economists’ survey are no less distinguished in their field than the business signatories.
Among those who disagreed strongly that austerity had been a good thing, Oxford University’s Simon Wren-Lewis (never shy to express an opinion) asked if the question was “a joke”, adding that “the only interesting question is how much GDP has been lost as a result of austerity” (which he thinks could be as much as 10% of national income).
John Van Reenen of the LSE, who also disagreed with austerity, said “UK GDP is about 15% below where we would have expected on pre-crisis trends... Premature austerity has damaged UK welfare and, as I and others argued at the time, delaying consolidation would have left the UK in a much stronger position than it is today.”
Click to expand...

But ultimately Tories (and a handful of Blair era Labour donors) saying vote Tory (and if you actually look at the wording not even then a change of course also be voting in a Tory majority) isn't exactly news regardless how rich they are.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Key Conservative constituency to vote Conservative in election shocker.
 
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