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[BluenoseGames]

I think PS4 is a guarantee.. wouldn't surprise me if the PS5 is the same architecture just with beefed up specs.

Yeah this is pretty much a given.

 

[brickarts295]

At this point, as much as PS Now gets hated on, it is an "okay" solution for BC on PS4. Yeah it sucks that you gotta re-buy your games to play them but hey maybe with this announcement Sony could try to implement software that could identify ownership of a PS3 game and let you play the PS Now version for free. Far fetched I know but hey I'm trying to stay positive here.

 

[Cynn]

- Microsoft has essentially guaranteed their entire (accessory games excluded) first party Xbox 360 game library as eventually playable on Xbox One. They also expect many more games from other publishers.

- Emulated 360 games are so far showing BETTER perfomance than on their original hardware.

- This service is free.

There's no way on Earth to twist that into a negative no matter how deep your bias may run. This is a good thing. Do I wish Sony would do it too? Absolutely, but Cell is too complex for something like this.

 

[pswii60]

Of course, only a VAST minority of the install base will actually make much, if any, use of the feature, but the option makes this pretty amazing.

I disagree with small minority. Completely.

This will automatically pull through all compatible digital downloads and XBLA games from your Xbox account. So it'll be no different to upgrading from an iPhone 5 to iPhone 6 and seeing all your existing and purchased apps load in to your new phone.

The big pull here isn't playing 360 retail games, it's about accessing my huge digital library again. A library I thought I'd sadly left behind when I sold my 360.

I've just ordered a Xbox One this evening, mainly on the back of this. After being on the fence for so long. I already own a PS4 and I couldn't be convinced to take the plunge based just on exclusives so far, but between the first party games on the way and also BC, I've "jumped ahead".

Spoiler

And my Wii U will be on eBay just as soon as I've completed Yoshi, as some funding towards it

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Sony backed PS Now. No doubt, MS thought about it too.

MS have streaming tech, They may even still launch it in some way. Halo 4 was shown playable on a Windows phone in 2013. They just didn't put all their eggs in one basket.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

But For me the significance of PS Now is being able to play games without a console. I think for Sony that's probably their goal in the end. To get people who don't own consoles to be able to pay for their service and play games on their TV's and other devices.

Yep, games as a service. Smart TV's will come with a PlayStation Now app, you won't even need a console.

 

[ArchedThunder]

- Microsoft has essentially guaranteed their entire (accessory games excluded) first party Xbox 360 game library as eventually playable on Xbox One. They also expect many more games from other publishers.

- Emulated 360 games are so far showing BETTER perfomance than on their original hardware.

- This service is free.

There's no way on Earth to twist that into a negative no matter how deep your bias may run. This is a good thing. Do I wish Sony would do it too? Absolutely, but Cell is too complex for something like this.

Really? I haven't bothered keeping up on this, is there some framerate tests or something? If this is true that's pretty damn cool.

MS have streaming tech, They may even still launch it in some way. Halo 4 was shown playable on a Windows phone in 2013. They just didn't put all their eggs in one basket.

It's not like Sony really has a choice though, Cell pretty much killed any chance of PS3 BC ever coming to PS4.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

You know what really benefits from BC? The fantastic library of games that is XBLA.

Not just because it helps preserve a whole digital library of games, but I think many of those games have a timeless quality about them - they not only have replay appeal to this day but they could also appeal to new gamers on Xbox One too.

To me, they don't all feel dated as many of them had more stylised artwork, were based around more unique ideas, or had less complex but rather excellent core gameplay that can more easily stand the test of time.

It's a big win for what was a great aspect of the 360.

 

[Carn82]

I think BC is great. I also think it's very overrated regarding it's true value. It's a great selling point if you are doubting if you should invest in a new console and still want access to your old library. To be honest, I bought a HDMI switch to keep my PS3 connected, but I think I turned it on maybe 3 or 4 times. To play Wipeout But good move from MS, I can only applaud these kind of features

 

[Sayter]

Why let people play something they already have for free when they're willing to buy it again?

.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Yep, games as a service. Smart TV's will come with a PlayStation Now app, you won't even need a console.

You are the controller!

 

[Gamezone]

It's absolutely true that it is highly requested but used little.

It's a PR home run for Microsoft, though.

This.

 

[Pathfinder]

You know what really benefits from BC? The fantastic library of games that is XBLA.

Not just because it helps preserve a whole digital library of games, but I think many of those games have a timeless quality about them - they not only have replay appeal to this day but they could also appeal to new gamers on Xbox One too.

To me, they don't all feel dated as many of them had more stylised artwork, were based around more unique ideas, or had less complex but rather excellent core gameplay that can more easily stand the test of time.

It's a big win for what was a great aspect of the 360.

This is what I'm looking forward to most. I've spent hundreds of dollars on XBLA games throughout its life and I would love to bring those to the One.

 

[CaptainofIndustry]

Honestly, I'd rather companies remaster games if there is a demand for them.

Spoiler

Like Mass Effect

 

[Tabris]

Shitty on Sony. The least you could do is port over the PS1 and PS2 emulator to PS4 from the PS3.

With that said, let's not count MS' chickens yet because they have already failed doing a similar BC system on the 360. You gotta go by a company's track history.

 

[rokkerkory]

- Microsoft has essentially guaranteed their entire (accessory games excluded) first party Xbox 360 game library as eventually playable on Xbox One. They also expect many more games from other publishers.

- Emulated 360 games are so far showing BETTER perfomance than on their original hardware.

- This service is free.

There's no way on Earth to twist that into a negative no matter how deep your bias may run. This is a good thing. Do I wish Sony would do it too? Absolutely, but Cell is too complex for something like this.

Performs better? Interesting... Need to test this.

 

[Tabris]

Honestly, I'd rather companies remaster games if there is a demand for them.

Spoiler

Like Mass Effect

The issue is remastering games pre-PS3 takes a significant amount of work, or you get lazy attempts like GOW1+2 remaster.

 

[adelante]

It's half-baked in the sense that we are completely reliant on publishers unlocking games in order for them to be playable. I just don't see, Rockstar for example, unlocking something like RDR when they could remaster it and sell it for $40.

It's not full BC. I'm not arguing about features. My point is content. They settled for what, 100 titles being compatible with this new feature? How big is the 360 library? 1000 games? 2000? They settled for 100. That's pretty half-assed.

They created an emulator that can run ALL 360 games. The only thing holding them back is publisher's approval. NOTHING about what they've done with the emulator is half-assed/baked.

 

[Zeyphersan]

Performs better? Interesting... Need to test this.

As far as I understand it, framerate isn't improved but load times are

 

[tuna_love]

Maybe Sony could launch a kick starter for an emulator. See what demand there is.

 

[Tabris]

- Emulated 360 games are so far showing BETTER perfomance than on their original hardware.

I remember playing Halo 1 and 2 on 360 and thinking this is incredible, this is how BC is done. It looked and performed better.

Then I loaded Fable and Star Wars KOTOR. They were unplayable messes. FPS drops under 5 constantly. Sound just dropping.

I want XBOne's BC to be incredible but I'm being a cynic here due to getting screwed over by 360. I sold my OG Xbox when BC was announced and it was a huge mistake.

 

[MrGreencastle]

Really? I haven't bothered keeping up on this, is there some framerate tests or something? If this is true that's pretty damn cool.


It's not like Sony really has a choice though, Cell pretty much killed any chance of PS3 BC ever coming to PS4.

Framerate is identical in my testing of Mass Effect. Load times for Mass Effect between zones is noticeably faster (loading presidium cutscene was around 7 seconds on 360 vs less than 2 seconds on One), and texture pop-in almost completely gone compared to running on 360 where it is prevalent. Haven't tested other games side by side yet.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Performs better? Interesting... Need to test this.

It's looking like games are loading faster and the image is more crisp. Also seems to greatly reduce the texture loading issue on Mass Effect for instance.

Would be interesting to see what storing them on a faster external hard drive could do to improve loading too.

 

[Bgamer90]

With that said, let's not count MS' chickens yet because they have already failed doing a similar BC system on the 360. You gotta go by a company's track history.

I don't really think it's that good of a comparison. The Xbox 360 has a much larger library of games than the Original Xbox had due to it doing much better (popularity/sales) and lasting longer (two times the length of the Original Xbox's life).

The Xbox One's digital features makes this easier and Microsoft is already teaming up with third party companies to make backwards compatibility packs (Fallout 4 with free Fallout 3; Rainbow Six Siege with free Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2).

I mean, it's the Xbox brand, and we are talking about backwards compatibility, but the difference is pretty night/day to me.

 

[wig]

- Emulated 360 games are so far showing BETTER perfomance than on their original hardware.

:O

Replaying Fallout 3 on my X1 if this is true. Don't have a gaming PC and have only played the slidewhow PS3 version.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Framerate is identical in my testing of Mass Effect. Load times for Mass Effect between zones is noticeably faster, and texture pop-in almost completely gone compared to running on 360 where it is prevalent. Haven't tested other games side by side yet.

So a lot of Unreal 3 games will be less "ugh". That's pretty cool.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Maybe Sony could launch a kick starter for an emulator. See what demand there is.

LOL nice one!

But they do not need to. They lead in sales with not only hardware, but software too. People are showing they want new games and last gen lasted long enough.

Now MSFT offers this, and the narrative spins and all of a sudden we want to play last gen games that people complained lasted too long?

Options are great. I am glad MSFT is not in first place, because they are now ushering in options that we would not have had if they were in first. We would have a DRM machine where you could not even buy used games (regardless of the BS "trade in program" backtracking comments they made).

Has nothing to do with who is at the helm of the games division either.

 

[Pathfinder]

Maybe Sony could launch a kick starter for an emulator. See what demand there is.

Top shelf.

 

[Tabris]

I mean, it's the Xbox brand, and we are talking about backwards compatibility, but the difference is pretty night/day to me.

Same process. Publishers have to request them, and they have to be compiled with an emulator within the package for 360.

Now perhaps the compiler they are using is a lot more effective and requires 0 work, but it's still an emulator compiler which means they need to test every game opted in which requires resources. And MS has shown they aren't willing to put the resources in after covering a generic checklist of games by their history.

 

[neogaffer1]

Imagine if Nvidia didn't charge licensing fees for the OG Xbox emulator for the 360--it's not hard to believe MS would've brought that over to the One as Backwards Compatibility within Backwards Compatibility.

Actually, I can't wait for the XB1 to get hacked. We could actually see the above happening, and we could see someone pulling the 360 emulation software out of the XB1 UI and using it to make that Xenia emulator better.

 

[TRios Zen]

Same process. Publishers have to request them, and they have to be compiled with an emulator within the package for 360.

Now perhaps the compiler they are using is a lot more effective and requires 0 work, but it's still an emulator compiler which means they need to test every game opted in which requires resources. And MS has shown they aren't willing to put the resources in after covering a generic checklist of games by their history.

For what it's worth, I just streamed Mass Effect from my Xbox One to my PC, started a new character, and played maybe 10 minutes without a single hiccup or slow-down.

When it boots up, it actually acts like you just turned on your 360. Pretty nifty.

 

[Zeyphersan]

Now MSFT offers this, and the narrative spins and all of a sudden we want to play last gen games that people complained lasted too long?

There's no narrative spinning or shifting here. People have always and will always value different things.

Personally, I value platforms that respect my investment. Everyone came off of PS360 having to abandon that digital library they had bought into, and it didn't feel good. So while I will be using the backwards compatibility, my enjoyment sort of comes secondary to just being told "Hey, you aren't locked out of those hundreds of dollars you spent on our store." As a primarily-PC gamer where this is basically never an issue, I appreciate that.

Now there are also tons of other business benefits that while they may not set the world on fire DO contribute to an overall healthy and successful ecosystem for Microsoft and other publishers, but that's a whole different thing.

 

[Prine]

Shitty on Sony. The least you could do is port over the PS1 and PS2 emulator to PS4 from the PS3.

With that said, let's not count MS' chickens yet because they have already failed doing a similar BC system on the 360. You gotta go by a company's track history.

Xbox emulation on 360 required tailored emulators for each games, not the case with X1, just 1 emulator for all games. As others have said, publishers need to just say yes.

You can see the x360 guide ui for gods sake and action your friends list. It's more than game BC, ors also OS virtualization. Sets the bar here IMO.

 

[Tumeke NZ]

Just listened to an interview with Aaron Greenberg and he explains how the system works. I suggest all the armchair engineers on here saying its half baked etc should have a listen.
They have emulated the 360 so when the 360 disc is inserted or downloaded it thinks its still being payed on a 360. This is why no adjustments are required to the actual games and the original developers/publisher don't have to do anything other than give the ok.
He said that from the launch later this year it will go from the launch 100 games to hundreds more in a matter of weeks/months.
He also said that because its running through the X1 you'll be able to use all its features like DVR, Twitch streaming and streaming to Win 10 devices.
So how is this a bad thing? When we get a remaster of a PS3 game its seen as great because "many 360 owners never got to play these games".
Now on X1 you can literally go into a game store and buy cheap or 2nd hand 360 games you may not have got to play for $5 etc., not $60 ($100NZD). I will also have access to my library of arcade games that I still love and want to play. Yes I have a 360 still but now that is one less device I need plugged in and can finally sell it on.

 

[Swass]

There's no way on Earth to twist that into a negative no matter how deep your bias may run. This is a good thing. Do I wish Sony would do it too? Absolutely, but Cell is too complex for something like this.

100% agree.. the only people spinning this into a negative have an ulterior motive.. not to mention this is one of the most pro consumer things Microsoft has done with the Xbox One..

 

[VaultBoy101]

So you're "placing [your] bets...on things like Suspend/Resume" to set you apart from the competition? That's...an interesting take.

 

[etta]

Same process. Publishers have to request them, and they have to be compiled with an emulator within the package for 360.

Now perhaps the compiler they are using is a lot more effective and requires 0 work, but it's still an emulator compiler which means they need to test every game opted in which requires resources. And MS has shown they aren't willing to put the resources in after covering a generic checklist of games by their history.

There is no recompiling. There is only a wrapper that acts like an Xbox 360. The 360 games are fooled into thinking they are running on an Xbox 360 hardware by the wrapper, and the Xbox One is fooled that the 360 games are actually Xbox One games by the wrapper. The wrapper is a universal solution, there is only need for QA, not recompiling. The only thing the wrapper does not support is multi disc games right now. Kinect games are a no go because Kinect 2.0 cannot act as a Kinect 1.0.

 

[neogaffer1]

So you're "placing [your] bets...on things like Suspend/Resume" to set you apart from the competition? That's...an interesting take.

"We're placing our bets on things the competition had working before us to set us apart from them."

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I don't care much about PS3 BC, let the remasters handle that, but......

And people ask why we want native rendering BC, even if it's only 720p

I'd honestly prefer a 12 remaster to the FF7 remake (and it'd probably cost Square a fraction of the cost). Hopefully we get it either way.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

Maybe Sony could launch a kick starter for an emulator. See what demand there is.

Oh shiiit!

 

[leeh]

Just listened to an interview with Aaron Greenberg and he explains how the system works. I suggest all the armchair engineers on here saying its half baked etc should have a listen.
They have emulated the 360 so when the 360 disc is inserted or downloaded it thinks its still being payed on a 360. This is why no adjustments are required to the actual games and the original developers/publisher don't have to do anything other than give the ok.
He said that from the launch later this year it will go from the launch 100 games to hundreds more in a matter of weeks/months.
He also said that because its running through the X1 you'll be able to use all its features like DVR, Twitch streaming and streaming to Win 10 devices.
So how is this a bad thing? When we get a remaster of a PS3 game its seen as great because "many 360 owners never got to play these games".
Now on X1 you can literally go into a game store and buy cheap or 2nd hand 360 games you may not have got to play for $5 etc., not $60 ($100NZD). I will also have access to my library of arcade games that I still love and want to play. Yes I have a 360 still but now that is one less device I need plugged in and can finally sell it on.

It's weird selecting a game on the X1 and suddenly you've got the 360 guide and an old notification pops up.

 

[adelante]

Shitty on Sony. The least you could do is port over the PS1 and PS2 emulator to PS4 from the PS3.

With that said, let's not count MS' chickens yet because they have already failed doing a similar BC system on the 360. You gotta go by a company's track history.

The emulation system on the 360 was a more complicated. Every OG Xbox game needed a specific emulator modifications for them to run properly whereas the one they've got here runs the same for every 360 game (ie it's practically a 360 console in your XboxOne). That, and the fact that they're requesting fan feedback on which games should be top on the emulation queue means they're a different, more hopeful approach of doing things now.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Surprised at no mention of PS Now as at least a semi-comparison.

Because it's not. PSNow is them getting the jump on something that'll blow up 5-10 years from now. It's not an alternative to BC.

 

[alatif113]

Quick question: if its running the original code why is there a download required for every game?

 

[etta]

Quick question: if its running the original code why is there a download required for every game?

You have to download the wrapper.

 

[MrGreencastle]

Same process. Publishers have to request them, and they have to be compiled with an emulator within the package for 360.

Now perhaps the compiler they are using is a lot more effective and requires 0 work, but it's still an emulator compiler which means they need to test every game opted in which requires resources. And MS has shown they aren't willing to put the resources in after covering a generic checklist of games by their history.

This is wrong and not how it works. There is no recompile.

Aaron Greenberg on Gamertag Radio:

With the architecture design, this is something we didn’t think we were able to do. But we have some of the best and brightest software engineers in the world working at Microsoft and they went off and spent a lot of time trying to emulate this. So what they’ve been able to do – which is an amazing breakthrough – is it runs an Xbox 360 in full emulation on the Xbox One, so the games actually think they’re on an Xbox 360. And that’s brilliant for a lot of reasons:

One Developers don’t have to do any work for their games to be enabled. If you remember with 360, backward compatibility we actually had to touch a lot of the games. And the other reason is that you’re able to chat with people on 360. And it runs within Xbox One, so you can do screenshots, you can do all that.”

“What that means is that we’re going to have a hundred games this holiday, then we’ll have hundreds more in a matter of months. You’re going to see the ramp up of those titles really fast. We want people that invested in these games on the 360, whether its digital or on disk, to be able to play these games.”

 

[jond76]

Just listened to an interview with Aaron Greenberg and he explains how the system works. I suggest all the armchair engineers on here saying its half baked etc should have a listen.
They have emulated the 360 so when the 360 disc is inserted or downloaded it thinks its still being payed on a 360. This is why no adjustments are required to the actual games and the original developers/publisher don't have to do anything other than give the ok.
He said that from the launch later this year it will go from the launch 100 games to hundreds more in a matter of weeks/months.
He also said that because its running through the X1 you'll be able to use all its features like DVR, Twitch streaming and streaming to Win 10 devices.
So how is this a bad thing? When we get a remaster of a PS3 game its seen as great because "many 360 owners never got to play these games".
Now on X1 you can literally go into a game store and buy cheap or 2nd hand 360 games you may not have got to play for $5 etc., not $60 ($100NZD). I will also have access to my library of arcade games that I still love and want to play. Yes I have a 360 still but now that is one less device I need plugged in and can finally sell it on.

Can you link the interview?

 

[vcc]

This is wrong and not how it works. There is no recompile.

Aaron Greenberg on Gamertag Radio:

None of what greenberg said is a technical description. He's just hand waving at things.

 

[Tumeke NZ]

Can you link the interview?

It was on Gamertag Radio as someone said above.
http://www.gamertagradio.com/2015/0...with-marketing-head-for-xbox-aaron-greenberg/

 

[MrGreencastle]

Quick question: if its running the original code why is there a download required for every game?

The full game plus wrapper (Xbox 360 OS, VM, and Xbox One manifest) needs to download and it runs from the hard drive, just like every other Xbox One game. The system doesn't run games off discs. Xbox 360 discs are simply used as authentication for the download and while running the game.