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[Discobird]

So I've played a bunch of games on my Jenner F and 3D after the JJ shake. My thoughts:

• Shooting during the burn is pretty much impossible at any range if you care at all about hitting a specific part of your target
  
  
• Shooting during the descent is the same as before, except you can't burn during your descent to cushion your fall or else you won't be able to hit anything
  
  
• -> skilled PPC/Gauss users don't need that much time to aim and fire and are less affected by the shake because they can do all that while falling (unskilled users will have a lot more trouble)
  
  
• -> laser users were hit harder than PPC/Gauss because you need a full second of stable aim to get all your damage in. This means you need to either (a) jump higher to maximize your falling time, which exposes you to enemy fire for longer and in combination with the second point above results in more leg damage (bad news for lights) or (b) resign yourself to not jumping and shooting as often as before.

All told I think that lights (who are more likely to use lasers) got nerfed harder than heavies and assaults (who can effectively boat PPCs and Gauss and don't care about a few points of leg damage). It does not feel like lights shake any less than heavies, or if they do it's barely perceptible, so I hope they scale down the shake for lights because no one thought jumping lights were overpowered before. I haven't played a JJ medium since the patch so I won't comment on them.

I am now running with just 1 JJ on my Jenner for turning and getting over obstacles. Losing the second JJ plus 0.5 tons of unneeded armor on my arms lets me take an extra DHS. Here's the build: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=76&l=696af854f5a69c82b99970eccbcf31b7b10ef8f5. (I copied it from the streamer PEEFSmash, a high level light player.)

I have seen less sniping and more brawling since the patch which is awesome in my book. SRMs could use more love though.

 

[Woorloog]

Normal PPCs. These things are pretty awful, they have long reload for their range, high heat, and minimum range. At close-to-mid ranges, AC10, Large Laser and Medium lasers are much better, while at longer ranges, ERPPC (despite their even higher heat), Gauss Rifle, ER Large Laser and AC5/2 are much better.

Swapped my Blackjack's AC2s to PPCs (didn't have ERPPCs and wasn't going to spend 1.2 million for them) but now the thing ain't very useful. 20 point alpha is nothing to sneer at, but... well, i don't really find any good situation to use them. Blackjacks can't close to 500 meter range, they're too slow and vulnerable there, though this depends a bit on the map.
Guess i'll have to go back to AC2s, can't really with AC5s with reasonable ammo load.

 

[Discobird]

Welp I don't think I'm going to top this Jenner game from over the weekend anytime soon: http://i.imgur.com/WpQEIlP.jpg

Our team reacted badly to a split cave rush and it ended up 2v5 with me and a badly damaged friendly Stalker vs their Atlas, Misery, both Jagers and the Spider.

One of the Jagermechs looked like he was using an XL engine so I'd been shooting him in the rear LT for a while and got it down to red structure. Eventually he realized the danger and torso twisted to face me. But then my friendly Stalker got his attention-- the otherwise healthy Jager turned his back on me again for a moment and I blew up his XL. The second Jager was right next to him and was pretty heavily damaged already, he went down in one more alpha.

That left the Atlas, Misery (both of whom were near full health) and Spider. The Misery was focused on my ally so I got right behind him on a hill and started legging him. By the time the Misery killed my Stalker buddy and started fighting me, I had taken his left leg. The Atlas and Spider were too far away to help and I took the Misery's other leg shortly after without taking damage.

Ran away from the Atlas to try and fight the Spider one on one, taking jumping shots as I went. Spider was pretty damaged and decided to go for a base cap instead of dueling me. I think this was a mistake--he should've stuck by the Atlas since there was no way I was going to let him complete the cap. I didn't go back to base immediately because I wanted to avoid a 1v2, so I fought the Atlas first, legged him without taking too much damage and then headed home to deal with the Spider alone. He was already damaged so he went down in a few shots and at that point I figured the game was won if I didn't screw up. Spent another minute stalking the Atlas and carefully taking off his other leg while jumping from cover to cover and then it was all over. Hands were shaking pretty much the whole time.

Lots of errors on the enemy's part, they ignored me for way too long (I still had CT armor at the end) and if more of them had seismic or it had been a desert map I don't think I would've been able to pull off the win. Still, it was a really fun match and I'm definitely a fan of the Jenner build I posted above.

Normal PPCs. These things are pretty awful, they have long reload for their range, high heat, and minimum range. At close-to-mid ranges, AC10, Large Laser and Medium lasers are much better, while at longer ranges, ERPPC (despite their even higher heat), Gauss Rifle, ER Large Laser and AC5/2 are much better.

Say what, the normal PPCs are probably the best overall weapon in the game right now. Their damage is instant (huge advantage vs the lasers and smaller ballistics), they are fairly light (big advantage vs the larger ballistics--you can fit two PPCs for the weight of an AC10 plus two tons of ammo) and they do good damage over a pretty wide engagement range. They're not even appreciably less heat efficient than medium and large lasers. The 90m minimum range isn't as big a drawback as you might think since it's not like they do zero damage at 89m, the damage just scales linearly down to 0m (compare that to LRMs which do absolutely nothing within 180m). If you position well, most of the time you can make it difficult for people to close within 90m of you without getting pummelled by the rest of your team. The minimum range is a liability if you get jumped without support though.

You don't necessarily need to close within 540m before you start firing either, it's still worth shooting your PPCs at pretty much anything within say 700-800m since their heat is not that bad unless you're boating 6 of 'em.

The ability to put all your damage in one packet in one location is key, it gives the enemy no opportunity to spread the damage around their body and exposes you for the shortest possible time unlike AC2/5 and lasers. There's a reason everyone on the official forums is proposing this or that nerf to PPC boats.

 

[Zaptruder]

Wow dude. I don't think I've ever seen a light crack the 1k damage mark. So bloody well played.

I mean, not only did things have to go wrong the right way, but to have the skill and fortune to capitalize on it... is a pretty impressive feat! Should have gotten an achievement for that shit. Like a feats of strength or something like that.

 

[Nickiepoo]

Welp I don't think I'm going to top this Jenner game from over the weekend anytime soon: http://i.imgur.com/WpQEIlP.jpg

Hahahah, oh wow. I think that's the highest damage I've ever seen a light do. Even if you can say that the other team were disorganized and poor shots it's still really impressive.

...particually compared to the jenners we've fought against in the last few days who seem to think that they're immune to a highlanders arm aimed AC20 + triple streaks.

 

[akira28]

LOOOOOONG LIIIIIIVE THE JUMPJET FIIIGHHTTAAAAAAHHHHS!!!

 

[BattleMonkey]

Does weight of the mech affect how much leg damage they take from falling? If not, that could help balance out the heavies just ignoring the JJ fall damage when shooting. They should be taking more damage from all that weight

 

[Discobird]

Hahahah, oh wow. I think that's the highest damage I've ever seen a light do. Even if you can say that the other team were disorganized and poor shots it's still really impressive.

...particually compared to the jenners we've fought against in the last few days who seem to think that they're immune to a highlanders arm aimed AC20 + triple streaks.

Yeah when I see anything with two or more streaks I pretty much fuck right off unless it's nearly dead or 100% focused on someone else. Even if I win the fight I know I'll take a ton of CT damage, not worth it. The worst is when you go around capping and run into a pair of Raven 3Ls who had the same idea, you're pretty much hosed then. No light can fight two 3Ls. Seismic helps a lot with avoiding that situation though.

AC40 Jagers are also really scary, you can try and juke them all you want but they just need one lucky (or skilled) shot and there goes your leg.

Does weight of the mech affect how much leg damage they take from falling? If not, that could help balance out the heavies just ignoring the JJ fall damage when shooting. They should be taking more damage from all that weight

Yes and it's the opposite of what you would expect. My 3D can fall from further heights than my Jenner before taking any leg damage. Makes no sense. You can try and explain it by saying heavies are supposed to have stronger legs but then that should be reflected in higher armor/structure HP, not more fall damage immunity.

 

[Nickiepoo]

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/122300-gameplay-update-june-112013/page__pid__2442114#entry2442114

'Last update, I let it be known that we would be investigating a heat penalty for high alpha builds. It is understood that this raised the eyebrows of the many but at the same time a lot of assumptions were made which should hopefully be cleared up here.

We considered the notion of doing a max heat threshold reduction but this would have ended up nerfing every weapon system and every Mech in the game. This is why the heat scale penalty path was chosen since it lets us address every weapon individually and also allows us to take into consideration all Mech builds.

How it works:

We set a threshold of the number of weapons fired simultaneously. By simultaneously fired, we mean weapons of the exact same type being fired in under a 0.5 second time range. This 0.5 second time comes from the amount of time between weapon switches when Chain Fire is engaged. Chain Fire is a mechanism meant to help MechWarriors manage their heat and we do not want to punish those who use this mechanic.
If a player fires a number of weapons beyond the threshold, the heat scale will increase significantly for every weapon fired beyond the threshold.'

Awesome.

 

[Woorloog]

Awesome.

Are still crap.
I can't remember when i last saw one. It died fast for sure though.

This week's challenge is horrible. 10 games of both modes? Ugh. Conquest sucks so hard at the moment.

And LRMs are kinda pointless still. ECM still makes them worthless... Don't think ECM/BAP balance is fine at the moment, far from it still.
Considering equipping my Catapult with quad SRM6 but i can't afford a fast XL engine (Standard doesn't allow me to equip the mech as like otherwise). 64KPH is not enough for a close range combatant... not that Catapults are fast even with max engine (without Speed Tweak, i can't afford to buy 3 variants per mech and equip them... nor do i care to).

Can't wait to get a Quickdraw, hopefully they'll un-nerf Jump Jets a bit.

 

[teepo]

oh man, that's what i've been advocating for months

though i've been doing it in complete silence :|

Spoiler

suck it zap

 

[Discobird]

It's great that PGI is addressing PPC boats but tbh I think those are the only type of boats that are a serious balance problem nowadays and I'm worried about collateral damage from this change.

Laser boats of any type are not really OP right now with the possible exception of 5-6 LLAS Stalkers if PPCs were to get nerfed and LLAS were untouched. The proposed heat change hurts Hunchback 4Ps and Blackjack 1Xs for no real reason. You could say "just delay your extra lasers by 0.5s" but (a) that's a serious penalty, it's 0.5s that your opponent can use to get into cover or shield a vulnerable part and you can't, and those mechs don't need a new penalty and (b) if it weren't a serious penalty, then you could use that argument to say that the change doesn't effectively nerf PPC boats either and we're back to square one. If anything, PPCs suffer less from waiting another 0.5s than lasers since they don't have to hold a beam for a whole additional second after firing. I guess it would hurt 4x PPC Highlander 733Ps quite a bit though since the delay makes a big difference when poptarting, so there's that.

Streakcats won't be a problem after the separate Streak changes go in (which I'm very happy for as a light pilot). MG boats, AC/2 boats, pulse laser boats, even LRM boats are not currently an issue IMO. I see a lot of complaints about AC40 Jagers on the forums, but even if they're a problem this seems like a weird way to address them since you cannot really "boat" AC20s, you either have zero, one or two. I think a targeted nerf to PPCs would have been enough. (When I say PPCs in this post I mean both normal and ER of course.)

Rest of the patch notes look pretty good to me.

 

[Zaptruder]

oh man, that's what i've been advocating for months

though i've been doing it in complete silence :|

Spoiler

suck it zap

It's what they mentioned before. But like the JJ nerf, I think it'll probably have some unintended consequences and not fully fix the behaviour, just reduce it.

Unless they tweak it carefully for all weapon combos so as to pretty much nerf the current high alpha builds - then it sounds like 6ML jenners will get a nice kick in the head. 1gauss + 2 PPC builds probably won't. 2 AC20 builds could, but might not. 2 gauss builds is very improbable.

Which means mostly PPCs and probably large laser boats.

If they do it wrongly, then it impacts even simple builds like 3ML, 2LL like I've got going on my trebuchet. Which is really a mech that shouldn't see *any* penalties from whatever they're introducing.

Oh well. This is the way PGI does things... slowly reduce the symptomatic problems until months and months down the track they're gone, after years of complaining.

 

[Discobird]

In the dev post they said that the heat penalty doesn't kick in until the 7th MLAS so 6 MLAS Jenners won't be affected. Still kinda bizarre since MLAS are really well balanced as-is IMO.

They also said the change affects only "weapons of the exact same type being fired in under a 0.5 second time range" which if read literally means that PPCs and ERPPCs would count separately, as would PPCs + Gauss or other high alpha builds with mixed weapon systems.

 

[Zaptruder]

In the dev post they said that the heat penalty doesn't kick in until the 7th MLAS so 6 MLAS Jenners won't be affected. Still kinda bizarre since MLAS are really well balanced as-is IMO.

They also said the change affects only "weapons of the exact same type being fired in under a 0.5 second time range" which if read literally means that PPCs and ERPPCs would count separately, as would PPCs + Gauss or other high alpha builds with mixed weapon systems.

Yeah, so basically pushing the problem around rather than fixing it.

Come the fuck on PGI. Player's are creative. They will break your fix within a couple matches if you don't do it properly.

 

[Discobird]

I wonder if they are planning to buff the shit out of pulse lasers and this is a preemptive move to stop abuse. Paul said in his post that pulse lasers will be "tuned as we move toward launch."

 

[Sax Russel]

Seems like it would be on a per mech basis, since they specifically pointed to the 6 grouped hardpoints in the Hunch example, so those silly Jenners probably aren't as safe as they seem.

 

[Woorloog]

I wonder if they are planning to buff the shit out of pulse lasers and this is a preemptive move to stop abuse. Paul said in his post that pulse lasers will be "tuned as we move toward launch."

They buff SPLS and LPLS but what about MPLS? Because it is a tad weak at the moment, i think, though better than the other versions. Just not really competitive with Medium Laser.

 

[Nickiepoo]

People are really complaining about adding a risk/reward mechanic to boating builds?

 

[BattleMonkey]

Oh well. This is the way PGI does things... slowly reduce the symptomatic problems until months and months down the track they're gone, after years of complaining.

Several weeks is now years of complaining? The game hasn't even been out a single year

 

[Zaptruder]

Several weeks is now years of complaining? The game hasn't even been out a single year

Hyperbole - not something you understand?

Point is, it's slow as fuck.

 

[Discobird]

People are really complaining about adding a risk/reward mechanic to boating builds?

Well I think PGI should take a step back and look at which boating builds are actually a balance problem currently.

• MLAS boats? You have the Hunchback 4P, the Blackjack 1X and I guess the Jenner F, all of which already involve significant risks to play and aren't overpowered by anyone's reckoning. The Jenner F might be a little too strong compared to the other lights after the SSRM nerf but that would be better fixed by buffing SRMs and small ballistics so that energy hardpoints aren't king on lights.
  
• SLAS boats are worse than MLAS boats. I'll get to LLAS in a bit.
  
• Pulse lasers of all kinds are underwhelming and will still be underwhelming after the tweaks Paul mentioned in his post. They could be good in a future balance pass but who knows.
  
• MGs are so bad they're getting another 25% damage buff on top of the double damage they got in May.
  
• AC/2s and (U)AC/5 boats are fun but come with the significant drawback of usually being slow and/or underarmored and needing to expose yourself while you're DPSing.
  
• AC/10s, LB-10xs, AC/20s and Gauss are too big to boat effectively.
  
• LRMs are in a good spot right now, maybe even on the weak side (but PGI has to be really careful about buffing them since it is by nature easier to fire lots of launchers at one target compared to other weapons).
  
• SRMs are still weak at the moment even when boated.
  
• Streaks are strong but they're getting a big nerf due to not hitting CT all the time, and the Streakcat is the only practical Streak boat right now anyway (you can fit a bunch of Streaks on certain assaults but then you need your enemy to pretty much walk into your range).
  
• That leaves (ER) PPCs and LLAS. Everyone knows PPC boats are way too strong right now so I won't go into that. LLAS boats are very good but significantly worse than PPCs. They might need slight tweaking if PPCs get nerfed, not sure.

So if you look at the current boat builds I think you'll find that risk/reward is already present and working except for PPCs and maybe LLAS. PGI is introducing a complicated system that will probably create more balance problems than it solves, nerf mechs that don't need nerfing and confuse new players even more, when they could solve the existing boating issues with a targeted nerf to PPCs.

I don't want to understate the new player problem either. I think most of us here who play the game have experience with Battletech or the old Mechwarrior games. I introduced MWO to a few of my friends last month who don't have that kind of background, and it is a BIG hurdle to learn all the mechanics and how mech customization works and the various ways this game differs from FPSs. They told me that if I wasn't there to hold their hands and guide them through what dynamic structure/armor means, how heatsinks work (in-engine vs out of engine), the 90m PPC minimum range (which is documented nowhere in-game as far as I know), etc., they would not have bothered playing the game for more than a few hours. One of them did quit after he saved up for a Spider 5K and realized too late that it was garbage. And these are guys who pick up new MMOs every month and are used to learning complex systems. The new heat system is going to look like an arbitrary, Rube Goldberg-esque balancing system to players like this.

All of that said, maybe PGI is just laying the groundwork for balancing Clan weapons, which makes a certain amount of sense. But there is still no need to mess with IS weapon balance so thoroughly.

 

[Nickiepoo]

I don't want to understate the new player problem either. I think most of us here who play the game have experience with Battletech or the old Mechwarrior games. I introduced MWO to a few of my friends last month who don't have that kind of background, and it is a BIG hurdle to learn all the mechanics and how mech customization works and the various ways this game differs from FPSs. They told me that if I wasn't there to hold their hands and guide them through what dynamic structure/armor means, how heatsinks work (in-engine vs out of engine), the 90m PPC minimum range (which is documented nowhere in-game as far as I know), etc., they would not have bothered playing the game for more than a few hours. One of them did quit after he saved up for a Spider 5K and realized too late that it was garbage. And these are guys who pick up new MMOs every month and are used to learning complex systems. The new heat system is going to look like an arbitrary, Rube Goldberg-esque balancing system to players like this.

Yeah, I've had to do this too and it sucks, but that's a UI/tutorial issue, not a 'complexity of the game' issue because, as you've noted, equally complex games don't cause these problems.

As far as nerfing only PPCs goes. PPCs are popular in the current meta, but that wasn't always the case, they USED to be utter rubbish and fast ML boats dominated, then streak boats dominated, then SRM boats, then LRM boats then ect ect. I'm not aguing against targetted nerfing of overpowered weapons, I'm encoraging a system which rewards balanced builds and forces players that dont balance to think before they alpha or else take an addtional skill check before they're able to knock the leg off a medium with a single shot at 800 meters.

Because the alternative is a nerf which also 'unfairly' hurts every other build using PPCs despite their overall DPS being in about the right place when you ignore the boating.

btw, with this system I guess that 2 AC20s would be considered a 'boat' and that forcing brawling Jagers to either spread their damage or limit their fire-rate isn't something I'd argue against.

 

[Discobird]

Sounds to me like your problem is more with high pinpoint alphas than boating per se, which is a related but distinct issue (you will still be able to do high alphas with mixed weapon systems under PGI's change).

You make a good point about other types of boats being historically OP, and that's what makes me think this change is really meant to help balance Clan weapons eventually. Which is fine in itself, but why sacrifice the present balance for future balancing. (And that last sentence doesn't just apply to Clan weapons, it could mean anything that might be OP in the future.)

Put another way, I think I'd appreciate the change more if PGI had announced that they're just testing it out on PPCs first and that they may or may not apply it to other weapons in the future depending on the then-existing state of balance. When they talk about nerfing medium lasers using Hunchbacks as an example I question their priorities.

-edit- Also I think PPCs are still too strong even when not boated--they are just too efficient on a per-weapon basis compared to other weapons. Obviously not every mech that carries a PPC is automatically overpowered for that reason alone but that doesn't mean the weapon is balanced either, just that it doesn't guarantee a strong build all by itself.

tl;dr they're futureproofing the game in a way that unnecessarily hurts the present

 

[Nickiepoo]

Pinpoint damage builds are the problem with energy/ballistic boating, yeah.

 

[Woorloog]

http://mwomercs.com/game/battlemechs/heavy/quickdraw

Quickdraw at Mechlab.
Variants: QKD-4G, QKD-4H, QKD-5K
Quickdraw at Sarna.net http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Quickdraw

 

[Nickiepoo]

http://mwomercs.com/game/battlemechs/heavy/quickdraw

Quickdraw at Mechlab.
Variants: QKD-4G, QKD-4H, QKD-5K
Quickdraw at Sarna.net http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Quickdraw

So 5K is a laserboat, but 4G and H seem identical given that MWO doesn't use rear-firing weapons. I guess tweaks are going to make the difference but like I said a little while back, this mech looks like it's going to be a bit samey.

 

[Woorloog]

So 5K is a laserboat, but 4G and H seem identical given that MWO doesn't use rear-firing weapons. I guess tweaks are going to make the difference but like I said a little while back, this mech looks like it's going to be a bit samey.

I reckon either H or G will have more missile slots and less energy slots, and vice versa.
Like, G could have 4 energy slots and 4 missile (2/2 or 1/3), and H would have 6 energy and 2 missile. K would be 6-8 energy and 1-2 missile perhaps.

Yeah, they're a bit too similar. Unfortunately there isn't many 3050 variants of Quickdraw, at least not if they don't add one-shot versions of weapons (enabling 5M though as with 5A, it is very similar to existing variants).
Perhaps we'll get a Hero Quickdraw?

EDIT wait... could the mech really have 8-9 hardpoints with JJs? Hmm... Only Stalker has as many, i think.

 

[Nickiepoo]

EDIT wait... could the mech really have 8-9 hardpoints with JJs? Hmm... Only Stalker has as many, i think.

Yeah, that might be a few too many but you make a good point about 'spare' hardpoints.

I do wonder if hand-held weapons ranged will go in at some point though I admit that I only know that they exist rather than how they're actually implimented in TT

 

[Discobird]

Ask the Devs #40

Biggest takeaway points:

• 3rd person view (3PV) is coming and the game will be split into a normal queue (1PV and 3PV) and "hardcore" queue (1PV only, like now). Scheduled community warfare matches will be 1PV only, regular matches will be 3PV. Bryan says 3PV won't really give that big an advantage but wouldn't specify how (seems like a big advantage to me when popping out of cover and keeping track of nearby enemy lights).
  
  
• Community warfare will bring assymetrical game modes where each team has different objectives (e.g. attack/defend)
  
  
• PGI is considering a "try before you buy" system for mechs (YES PLS)
  
  
• In response to a question about heavy and assault mechs being too common compared to TT and lore: "We have some plans in the works to limit the amount of tonnage on the battlefield and encourage balance through rewarding w[e]ll structured teams." This will include 8v8s.
  
  
• "we are tuning the shake amount to make it a little easier on the eyes"
  
  
• PGI is working on "the current large energy weapon alpha build meta." (That's an awfully wordy way to say PPC boats.) Bryan went on to say "We’re working on heat and beam weapons now."
  
  
• We will be able to see ally weapon loadouts eventually
  

Lots of "well see" or "we're looking into it" or "when our dev team has extra time" kinda replies. Disappointingly little new info about jumpjet shake (I'm hoping they tune it down for lights and mediums) or how they plan to nerf seismic.

I do wonder if hand-held weapons ranged will go in at some point though I admit that I only know that they exist rather than how they're actually implimented in TT

I will be happy when mechs with hand actuators can pick up dismembered limbs from the ground and beat mechs to death with them

 

[Nickiepoo]

I will be happy when mechs with hand actuators can pick up dismembered limbs from the ground and beat mechs to death with them

Won't we all

I'd love to see melee in the game, as hard as it might be to impliment, particually with brawling back on the rise. Game is more fun now than it's been for a long time, lots of nice furballs.

 

[Zaptruder]

There's some rather excellent discussion going on the MWO forums about a divergence based solution.

https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/1...lution-to-alphas-convergence-boats-and-clans/

Essentially, the TLDR of it is that it's a combination of the energy system and non-convergence/COF solutions been bandied around.

i.e. Mechs have Targeting Computers.

Targeting computers require 'energy' to use. Starts with 100 and recharges to full within a second.

Weapons tax targeting computer and drain energy. Amount varies depending on energy use.

If weapons exceed the 'energy', shots diverge.

A weapon like the Gauss Rifle takes 75 energy, PPCs 50 energy. AC20s 100 energy.

So fire 1 gauss/1 AC20 at a time, 2 PPCs at a time, upto 7 MLs at once, etc.


On the UI front, you could make this system very simple and intuitive for players by simply using color coded weapon groups. Groups that are under energy limit = green. Groups over energy limit = yellow. The weapon group boxes surrounding the reticle also turn green/yellow/red for converges/non convergent/reloading.

And of course the colours are dynamic; at 75 energy the gauss rifle group turns green again.



So for the end user, it boils down simply to - Green = will hit where you point. Yellow = Will spray a bit. Red = won't hit.

 

[Llyranor]

Man, as much as I dislike the unnecessary changes to light/medium JJ's (which seems like they'll be ?adjusted next patch anyway), I have to admit this has actually been one of the better patches in a long time. Nearly every match I've played since the patch has featured a satisfying brawl. With the upcoming boating fix, things should get even better. PGI is (slowly but) surely getting to that sweet spot.

<3 <3 MWO

 

[Llyranor]

After a bit of experimenting with it, I've come to the conclusion that the network of bridges on canyon is actually pretty awesome. I've had some surprising success with them. Great fields of fire, easy to spot enemies and snipe at them, easy to get out of harm's way if you're being focused on, and easy to lure enemies into trying to approach you while your team sets up ambush positions in the periphery. Best thing is that they *seem* like such a dumb idea that the enemy team won't take you that seriously until it's too late and you've decimated them. My KDR has gone way way up on the canyon ever since I started using the bridges.

Gosh, I love my 6PPC build. Get on bridge, one-hit-kill fool (or at least strip off their armor) who didn't bother getting into cover fast enough, rinse & repeat. People say alphastrike online is a skill-less thing, but there's actually a tremendous amount of skill involved in that level of precision sniping. It's a thankless job. But anyway, the point is that the bridges are pretty rad on canyon, such a well-designed map.

 

[Discobird]

Canyon's easily my favorite map in the rotation. Always happy to see that one come up, it has something for everyone and rewards both smart sniping and smart brawling. (And I always groan at Alpine and Forest.)

This might be stating the obvious but when I lose on Canyon it's usually because my team tries to fight on the low ground--either in the canyons or, more commonly, in the riverbeds on the side. Elevation is always an advantage in this game but it's especially pronounced on Canyon where the low ground doesn't have much good cover at all and the high ground has those nice rock pillars everywhere.

The map is also just big enough that a lighter and more mobile team can outcap on Conquest or pose a real base cap threat in Assault, without being so huge that lights pretty much have to play a different game from everyone else in order to not lose (hi Alpine).

People say alphastrike online is a skill-less thing, but there's actually a tremendous amount of skill involved in that level of precision sniping. It's a thankless job. But anyway, the point is that the bridges are pretty rad on canyon, such a well-designed map.

Try poptarting after the JJ shake, it actually takes quite a bit of skill and speed to do accurately now and I love the challenge. The shake is so bad that you have to do all your aiming during the descent--you can't even roughly line up a shot during the ascent--so shooting a moving, torso twisting Highlander in the dick to core him as you're falling is pretty much the best feeling ever. I just wish they didn't mess with lights and mediums so hard

There's some rather excellent discussion going on the MWO forums about a divergence based solution.

https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/1...lution-to-alphas-convergence-boats-and-clans/

This is pretty well thought out and I appreciate that guy's reasoning. He's clearly thought a lot about his proposal and it makes a lot more sense than PGI's heat penalty idea. All the same, I still don't think it's necessary to do something this complicated to balance the game in its current state. Right now the "high pinpoint alpha" problem is really a PPC boat problem. Balance PPCs, preferably by making them worse at brawling and giving them close range counters (stronger SRMs / pulse lasers) rather than just straight up nerfing everything about them--then those 60 alpha Stalkers become less of an issue.

Something like this proposal might be necessary when clan weapons are introduced though, because there is pretty much no good way to balance them along existing dimensions that I can think of.

What I'd really like to see, as sort of a soft counter to potential unbalanced builds in the future, is (a) tonnage limits or something else to make lighter mechs more attractive so that you don't see 6 assaults per side so often in pug matches--this will have a huge beneficial effect on balance and (b) some way to designate targets and accept targeting orders so that you can better focus on high threat targets. I think it's incredible that we have this interesting and sophisticated targeting system with information warfare and everything but no way to call targets to our fellow pubbers other than typing.

 

[Nickiepoo]

After a bit of experimenting with it, I've come to the conclusion that the network of bridges on canyon is actually pretty awesome.

No it isn't. That's why we call them the Llyranor bridges.

Right now the "high pinpoint alpha" problem is really a PPC boat problem. Balance PPCs, preferably by making them worse at brawling and giving them close range counters (stronger SRMs / pulse lasers) rather than just straight up nerfing everything about them--then those 60 alpha Stalkers become less of an issue.

Yeah, I can agree with this. PPCs on non-boats are pretty balanced so no need to hurt those, but they should really be for skirmishing and direct fire support rather than the front line so I think the damage dropoff on their minimum range needs to be much steeper and the heat of the ER version increased as a downside to plugging this massive hole in its functionality. Mechs that only use one ERPPC shouldn't really notice the difference since 10 DHS can keep them under control, and mechs that use two need to balance heat vs refire rate by deciding to take two ERs or one of each.

 

[Woorloog]

When are the patches usually up? I usually miss patch days...

Anyone excited for the patch in general? Quickdraw?

 

[Discobird]

I think servers will go down for patching at 10AM tomorrow judging by the last few patches

I'm curious to see what they do with JJ in the patch. Half of me expects PGI to fuck it up totally and reduce the shake for all weight classes across the board so much that it brings back poptarts.

 

[Woorloog]

I think servers will go down for patching at 10AM tomorrow judging by the last few patches

I'm curious to see what they do with JJ in the patch. Half of me expects PGI to fuck it up totally and reduce the shake for all weight classes across the board so much that it brings back poptarts.

10AM... what timezone?
In UTC, if you will, so practical system yet no one seems to be using it.

 

[Discobird]

Whoops meant to say 10AM Pacific. So 5PM UTC.

 

[Woorloog]

Whoops meant to say 10AM Pacific. So 5PM UTC.

So... 8PM here (UTC+3 (DST). Just when i like to play the game. Sigh...
Looks like i'll be getting my Quickdrawn Wednesday. I mean, patching downtime, plus actual patch DL and installing, will be a tad late to play afterwards, and i'm not too keen on starting that late, i'll be up till 6AM otherwise...

As for Jump Jet changes... i really hope they reduce the shake, etc. slightly for heavies and assaults, and heavily for lights and mediums.

 

[Woorloog]

Quickdraw video

QKD-4G: 4 energy, 2 missile hardpoints, 5/7 Jump Jets
QKD-4H: 4 energy, 3 missile hardpoints, 5/5 Jump Jets
QKD-5K: 6 energy, 1 missile hardpoints, 5/5 Jump Jets

 

[Discobird]

That CT looks like it could be pretty narrow, like Centurion-sized if it's just the center box and not the boxes on the side. If so I think this thing is going to make the Dragon obsolete pretty fast (lack of ballistics notwithstanding). Maybe the Treb too.

I'll probably get it eventually because I love me some jumpjets.

 

[Woorloog]

That CT looks like it could be pretty narrow, like Centurion-sized if it's just the center box and not the boxes on the side. If so I think this thing is going to make the Dragon obsolete pretty fast (lack of ballistics notwithstanding). Maybe the Treb too.

I'll probably get it eventually because I love me some jumpjets.

Definitely Standard Engine mech. If one goes with XL, max Jump Jets and very fast Engine are required, i think.
The Dragon still has the advantage of being extremely good XL Engine mech, one must take advantage of that.

EDIT still thinking i'm going with the build i thought of earlier.

 

[teepo]

ballistics are what make the dragon fun

but this will easily trump it

 

[Woorloog]

ballistics are what make the dragon fun

but this will easily trump it

I have no doubt that Dragon will still have its place in the game.
I mean, people still play with mediums and lights and even Awesomes...
I was thinking of getting a Dragon after i've played enough with Quickdraws, i want to play with a mech with Gauss Rifle for a change at some point (Blackjack doesn't work as Gauss-platform in my hands).

 

[teepo]

dragons are universally viewed as being subpar mechs since a player's preformance in one is almost entirely dependent on their skills as a pilot more so than the build they are running. the vast majority of the time, regardless of how well the mech can twist its torso, they're an easy target with their huge center torso and easy to hit sides; furthermore it easily has one of the worst hitboxes in the game where being hit from the back almost guarantees the damage extending to the front and vice versa. with that in mind, i can see why they chose to introduce the quickdraw into the meta and i'm hopeful a hero variant will have a ballistic option of some sort, even if it's attached to the torso like the flame, which is easily my favorite hero mech after the... X-5

 

[Zaptruder]

The main reason they opted for the quickdraw over the Orion is because the Orion is a natural Gauss + 2ERPPC boat.

And its introduction would essentially exacerbate the woes of the current meta (kinda like the Highlander made the first week after its launch entirely about pop-tarting mechs, only to regress to a norm of pop-tarting snipers well above the previous mean).

The quickdraw will be not unlike Jager week - where LRMpocalypse 3 and the big ass head hitbox, made the jagermech a bit of a joke. At least until LRMpoclypse was sorted and ballistic state rewind was brought in.

 

[Nickiepoo]

i'm hopeful a hero variant will have a ballistic option of some sort, even if it's attached to the torso like the flame, which is easily my favorite hero mech after the... X-5

Yeah, the Flame is the only Hero that's really tempted me. <3<3 Dragons but man are they a hard mech to use, and I do worry that dropship/team weight limits will further sideline them for slightly lighter mechs that can fill the same fast ballistic role (cent, jack ect).

 

[Discobird]

Patch notes for June 18, 2013

No change to JJ or seismic D:

Open Beta Update #19

Upcoming Patch - Tuesday June 18th @ 10AM – 1PM PDT

Patch Number: 1.2.227

Change Log

UPDATE

Give me a Q! Q!

Give me a U! U!

Give me an I! I .... don't want to do that any more. I want to stomp around in a new 'Mech. F.Y.I. I was spelling "Quickdraw", which is the new 'Mech.
This heavy 'Mech weighs in at 60 tons and likes long walks on the beach, as long as there is glorious 'Mech combat at the end of that beach.

What happened to the Orion? The factory had some issues with orbital bombardment... production of the Orion will resume once the factory can be rebuilt. These 'Mechs don't just grow on trees, you know.

Which reminds me of a joke. If a tree falls in a forest... you must not be playing MWO.

We also added a new Champion 'Mech and made it a trial at the same time. The HBK - 4P(C). A nice loadout at a good price with a 10% XP boost. Try it then buy it.

Design is tweaking weapon numbers, so read on and if you think this patch is small, all I can say is enjoy the calm before the storm because big things are aligning for July.

Many, many, things.

See you on the Battlefield

Matt Newman

Content

New Battlemechs

Quickdraw QKD-4G

- Tonnage: 60
- Engine: 300
- Top Speed: 81 kph
- Max Engine Rating: 360
- Torso Movement:
- 100 degrees to each side.
- 25 degrees up and down.
- Arm Movement:
- 35 degrees to each side.
- 40 degrees up and down.
- Armor: 256 (Standard)
- Internal Structure: Standard
- Weapons & Equipment:
- Left Arm: Medium Laser
- Left Torso: LRM 10
- Center Torso: SRM 4
- Right Torso: Medium Laser x2
- Right Arm: Medium Laser
- Hardpoints:
- Left Arm: 1 Energy
- Left Torso: 1 Missile, 1 AMS
- Center Torso: 1 Missile
- Right Torso: 2 Energy
- Right Arm: 1 Energy
- Heat Sinks: 13 Single
- Jump Jets: 5 (7 Max)
- ECM Capable?: No
- Module Slots: 2
- Quirks: +33% arm movement speed

Quickdraw QKD-4H

- Tonnage: 60
- Engine: 300
- Top Speed: 81 kph
- Max Engine Rating: 360
- Torso Movement:
- 90 degrees to each side.
- 20 degrees up and down.
- Arm Movement:
- 30 degrees to each side.
- 35 degrees up and down.
- Armor: 256 (Standard)
- Internal Structure: Standard
- Weapons & Equipment:
- Left Arm: Medium Laser
- Left Torso: LRM 10
- Center Torso: SRM 4
- Right Torso: Medium Laser x2
- Right Arm: Medium Laser
- Hardpoints:
- Left Arm: 1 Energy
- Left Torso: 2 Missile, 1 AMS
- Center Torso: 1 Missile
- Right Torso: 2 Energy
- Right Arm: 1 Energy
- Heat Sinks: 13 Single
- Jump Jets: 5 (5 Max)
- ECM Capable?: No
- Module Slots: 2

Quickdraw QKD-5K

- Tonnage: 60
- Engine: 300
- Top Speed: 81 kph
- Max Engine Rating: 360
- Torso Movement:
- 90 degrees to each side.
- 20 degrees up and down.
- Arm Movement:
- 30 degrees to each side.
- 35 degrees up and down.
- Armor: 286 (Ferro-Fibrous)
- Internal Structure: Standard
- Weapons & Equipment:
- Left Arm: Medium Laser
- Left Torso: Medium Laser x2
- Center Torso: SRM 4
- Right Torso: Medium Laser x2
- Right Arm: Medium Laser
- Hardpoints:
- Left Arm: 1 Energy
- Left Torso: 2 Energy, 1 AMS
- Center Torso: 1 Missile
- Right Torso: 2 Energy
- Right Arm: 1 Energy
- Heat Sinks: 17 Double
- Jump Jets: 5 (5 Max)
- ECM Capable?: No
- Module Slots: 2

New Champion Battlemech

Hunchback HBK-4P(C)

- Tonnage: 50
- Engine: 260
- Top Speed: 84.2 kph
- Max Engine Rating: 260
- Torso Movement:
- 120 degrees to each side.
- 16 degrees up and down.
- Arm Movement:
- 40 degrees to each side.
- 28 degrees up and down.
- Armor: 338 (Standard)
- Internal Structure: Endo-Steel
- Weapons & Equipment:
- Head: Medium Laser
- Left Arm: Medium Laser
- Right Torso: Medium Laser x6
- Right Arm: Medium Laser
- Hardpoints:
- Head: 1 Energy
- Left Arm: 1 Energy
- Left Torso: 1 AMS
- Right Torso: 6 Energy
- Right Arm: 1 Energy
- Heat Sinks: 18 Double
- Jump Jets: 0 (0 Max)
- ECM Capable?: No
- Module Slots: 1
- 10% XP Bonus.

Cockpit Items

- Spider Statue.

Maps

- Slight change to out of bounds location in River City (and River City Night) near upper city capture base to allow 'Mechs walking within visual city limits to not be considered out of bounds. Mini-map updated accordingly.
- Completed art beautification pass and asset optimization pass on Caustic Valley.
- Updated lighting in Caustic Valley - Extended fog distance, Extended depth of field distance, increased cloud layer fog amount, added fog pools to tailing ponds, general sunlight and ambient light tweaks.

Gameplay

Weapons

- Flamer damage increased to 0.7 (up from 0.4).
- Machine Gun damage increased to 0.1 (up from 0.08).
- Pulse Laser Normalization (See Command Chair post on this).
- Small Pulse Laser damage up to 3.4 (up from 3.0) and heat lowered to 2.4 (down from 3.0).
- Large Pulse Laser damage up to 10.6 (up from 10.0) and heat increased to 8.5 (up from 7.3).

Bug Fixes

- Extended view distance on many buildings on River City to solve problem where low spec machines were seeing through buildings or buildings were disappearing completely potentially revealing hidden 'Mechs.
- Fixed various level stuck bugs.
- Fixed some issues that were occurring in the Front End.
- Made more improvements to the bandwidth costs.
- Fixed a few crash issues some users were having.

General

- Improved Lance and Team order icons for better visibility on the compass, mini-map and battlegrid.
- The F9 button displaying FPS and location has been removed and is being reworked.

We thank you for your patience and we look forward to seeing you on the battlefield!

The MechWarrior® Online™ Team