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[Fireye]

Huge news, PGI announced their Project Phoenix program. Basically, its the Founders program, but for Launch. Now includes classic mechs like the Locus, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, AND BATTLE-FREAKING-MASTER. *salivates*

Not sure what I think about doubledipping on this.

http://mwomercs.com/phoenix

 

[BattleMonkey]

Oh I see shit storm over this.

 

[Lime]

Get them whales

 

[Woorloog]

No Warhammer or Marauder? Meh.

 

[Discobird]

I love the way Locusts look, and I will probably buy one, but holy crap is this going to be the worst mech in the game or what.

Locust LCT-1V

20T, 0 JJ

Stock Engine: 160STD (max engine rating 170)

Top Speed (stock): 129.6kph

Armor (stock): 128

Hardpoints: RArm-2B CTorso-1E LArm-2B

1 x Medium Laser

2 x Machine Gun

Terrible hardpoints, no JJ and I might be mistaken but I don't think a 20T mech can reach the speed cap with a 170 engine (correct me if I'm wrong). Maybe they will buff the shit out of MGs before October 15.

-edit- I'm wrong, you can reach the speed cap on a 20 tonner with a 170 engine. Will still need additional heatsinks to reach the required 10 minimum, like the Commando.

 

[Woorloog]

Maybe they will buff the shit out of MGs before October 15.

Do you believe that?

 

[Discobird]

Do you believe that?

Well they doubled their damage in May and raised them by another 25% this month. By October they will do 80 damage/tick at 1000m range.

 

[todahawk]

Huge news, PGI announced their Project Phoenix program. Basically, its the Founders program, but for Launch. Now includes classic mechs like the Locus, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, AND BATTLE-FREAKING-MASTER. *salivates*

Not sure what I think about doubledipping on this.

http://mwomercs.com/phoenix

Did I read that correctly? $80 for the tier that includes the Battlemaster?

 

[Woorloog]

Well they doubled their damage in May and raised them by another 25% in the last patch. By October they will do 80 damage/tick at 1000m range.

And perhaps they'll actually rebalance the game.
And pigs... talk? Whatever the idiom was.

Noticed that none of the PP mechs are from Macross, wonder if there are some rights issues even with PP mechs?

 

[dionysus]

12 Mechs for 80 dollars. Way better than the first founder pack. Tempted. I haven't been playing as much recently. I'll probably be heavy into it though once CW is released.

Which reminds me Mechs are waaaayyyy too expensive in this game. A variant should be like 5$, or the whole chassis unlocked for $20.

 

[Nickiepoo]

No MC this time around though, but 12 mechbayslots is niiiice.

 

[Discobird]

Did I read that correctly? $80 for the tier that includes the Battlemaster?

Yup. I wish you could pick which 1/2/3 mechs you get at the $20/40/60 tiers instead of being forced to go from light to heavy, but how else are they going to make people spend money on the Locust. (I know I said I'd buy it anyway shut up)

 

[No_Style]

Hmm... I said I was going to buy some "Founders"-like package if they ever released one but none of these mechs are appealing to me. I guess I'll wait for a Clans package or something. Still keeping the free in F2P over here.

 

[Llyranor]

Nice. Time for some sweet Kurita loyalty bonuses.

That locust is awfully, dreadfully useless, hahaha.

55ton-JJ mech? Count me. The other two seem like decently balanced mechs for their tonnage.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I just want a battlemaster and more mechbay slots :-\

 

[Zaptruder]

A thunderbolt over a marauder or a warhammer?

I guess the main offender here is still harmony gold huh.

 

[BattleMonkey]

They can use the warhammer and such, just no one likes the redesigns they had to make for them which really look nothing like the originals.

 

[weevles]

I would love a SP campaign for this.

Don't really have time for MMOs any more...

 

[Tamanon]

A thunderbolt over a marauder or a warhammer?

I guess the main offender here is still harmony gold huh.

Yuuuuup.

Battlemaster is pretty badass though, I loved that one.

 

[K.Jack]

I would love a SP campaign for this.

Don't really have time for MMOs any more...

I'd pay them $100 for an SP campaign. No lie. Kickstart that shit and they'd be funded so quickly.

 

[teepo]

Huge news, PGI announced their Project Phoenix program. Basically, its the Founders program, but for Launch. Now includes classic mechs like the Locus, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, AND BATTLE-FREAKING-MASTER. *salivates*

Not sure what I think about doubledipping on this.

http://mwomercs.com/phoenix

Spoiler

possibly the only time i've ever used a meme to make my point

 

[Discobird]

That locust is awfully, dreadfully useless, hahaha.

Right? They somehow made a mech that's half as good as a Spider 5K.

 

[Nickiepoo]

Hahaha, maybe this is why they're trying to make MGs relevent since they're literally the only use for what I can only otherwise call 'The Llyranor Mech'.

You can run it up and down on your bridge Llyranor!

 

[Lime]

I would love a SP campaign for this.

Don't really have time for MMOs any more...

I'd pay them $100 for an SP campaign. No lie. Kickstart that shit and they'd be funded so quickly.

.

Anyway, this might interest the singleplayer-oriented Mechwarrior fans: A friend of mine tweeted this to Russ Bullock yesterday and he replied with this:

Take it as you will.

 

[Woorloog]

They can use the warhammer and such, just no one likes the redesigns they had to make for them which really look nothing like the originals.

Re-designs look fine in my opinion, if not exceptionally good, but they can have Alxe re-design them again, with better results.
Other originals ain't nearly as iconic, IMO. Or good.

EDIT don't know about you but all of those four PP mechs have have awful default loadouts. Yeah, i know they're generally pretty bad but those are like exceptionally bad... Battlemaster has somewhat decent loadout but i think heat's going to be a bad problem.
Not that defaults matter much.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Re-designs look fine in my opinion, if not exceptionally good, but they can have Alxe re-design them again, with better results.
Other originals ain't nearly as iconic, IMO. Or good.

Some are ok sure but many are not recognizable either. Assume it will happen but very carefully. The locust is an unseen mech so the others are likely. I just really did not like the warhammer redesign.

 

[Woorloog]

Some are ok sure but many are not recognizable either. Assume it will happen but very carefully. The locust is an unseen mech so the others are likely. I just really did not like the warhammer redesign.

Okay, i admit that Warhammer re-design ain't that great after taking another look at it. I presume Alex can make it look good still though.
Marauder re-design looks better, not perhaps as iconic as the original but pretty good, i think. It has certain functional feel to it, i think it would translate well to MWO's blocky style.
Archer re-design is quite good.
Rifleman is horrible, even worse than Warhammer.

Unfortunately we are not going to see these, or Clan mechs, anytime soon:
FAQ

Q: When will the Standard Variants be purchasable with C-bills or MC?
A: For those who do not Buy a Project Phoenix Package - The Standard Variants release schedule is currently set as:
Oct 15, 2013: Locust
Nov 20, 2013: Shadowhawk
Dec 18, 2013: Thunderbolt
Jan 22, 2014: Battlemaster

As you can see, the earliest we'll get an as-of-yet-unannounced-mech is February 2014.

 

[shuri]

I think machineguns should be deadlier. I know that it's in another universe, but in Chromehounds, they were effective harassment weapons when things were going down you were out of ammo your other guns. They were not quick killers, but they worked!

I tried them with test builds and since you have to be so close for them to really hurt, you get torn apart by regular weapons and its almost comedic.

Or maybe they should modify them so you can use them as some sort of last resort manual ASM but then again people would abuse them and it could make SRMs useless.

 

[BattleMonkey]

They already buffed them twice, it will be ridiculous to make them anymore powerful. Machineguns aren't meant to be a main weapon of any kind.

 

[Woorloog]

I think machineguns should be deadlier. I know that it's in another universe, but in Chromehounds, they were effective harassment weapons when things were going down you were out of ammo your other guns. They were not quick killers, but they worked!

I tried them with test builds and since you have to be so close for them to really hurt, you get torn apart by regular weapons and its almost comedic.

Or maybe they should modify them so you can use them as some sort of last resort manual ASM but then again people would abuse them and it could make SRMs useless.

Add through-armor Crits (why ain't these still in the game?), buff MG damage to 1, 1.5, or 2 DPS (is it one already? I don't remember). Still not deadly but effective up close, you need to get rid of an attacker with them quickly or they will eventually tear through your armor. Should be highly specialized weapon, but effective in good hands.
Spider 5K with a flamer and 4 Machine Guns would be very, very annoying, especially coupled with its high mobility and small size.

(Of course to make Crits important, internal structure needs 50-100% increase in durability. Probably need to buff item health as well then.)

As it is, Machine Guns are still worthless, better to use the weight used for them for extra heat sinks, small lasers, armor, or better engine.

EDIT increasing MG rate of fire could be a good idea, increase DPS at the expense of ammo consumption. An overall buff, but lesser one than increasing damage directly.

 

[Noisepurge]

I just really did not like the warhammer redesign.

Okay, i admit that Warhammer re-design ain't that great after taking another look at it.

what re-design? i've missed something is there a concept of it somewhere? Not based on the classic design:

 

[Woorloog]

what re-design? i've missed something is there a concept of it somewhere? Not based on the classic design:

We were talking about the table-top Project Phoenix Warhammer.

EDIT if that is PP Warhammer 3d render... it looks good. Though it looks a but too much like the original, would probably lead to legal issues...

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Warhammer#BattleMech_Gallery

 

[BattleMonkey]

Add through-armor Crits (why ain't these still in the game?), buff MG damage to 1, 1.5, or 2 DPS (is it one already? I don't remember). Still not deadly but effective up close, you need to get rid of an attacker with them quickly or they will eventually tear through your armor. Should be highly specialized weapon, but effective in good hands.
Spider 5K with a flamer and 4 Machine Guns would be very, very annoying, especially coupled with its high mobility and small size.

(Of course to make Crits important, internal structure needs 50-100% increase in durability. Probably need to buff item health as well then.)

As it is, Machine Guns are still worthless, better to use the weight used for them for extra heat sinks, small lasers, armor, or better engine.

EDIT increasing MG rate of fire could be a good idea, increase DPS at the expense of ammo consumption. An overall buff, but lesser one than increasing damage directly.

Damage of 1 or higher would make MG's god weapons with their tiny weight and amount of ammo they get. They also generate no heat, you can hold down the fire button the entire match and out dps any enery build suddenly for far less weight investment. It's like a never ending pulse ballistic laser boat.

I've run with 4 linked machine guns on one of my builds and for only a little weight investment, I can basically just hold down the fire on four MG's and never let go while I still am firing other weapons at targets. Actually makes good anti light mech weapon since they double buffed the MG's. I still got heavier weapons on my build and the MG's didn't really take up much space at all. Ammo is dirt cheap and you get 1000 rounds per bundle. While i'm fighting with my lasers and big guns, my machine guns are continually firing the whole time doing consistent non stop damage to the target.

 

[Woorloog]

Damage of 1 or higher would make MG's god weapons with their tiny weight and amount of ammo they get. They also generate no heat, you can hold down the fire button the entire match and out dps any enery build suddenly for far less weight investment. It's like a never ending pulse ballistic laser boat.

With very short range, less damage that a small (pulse) laser, and limited ammo that is vulnerable to ammo-explosion...
Hell, total, it weights more than either a small laser or a small pulse laser, for the same weight you can have a small laser with one heat sink.
Or i could add a heatsink and some armor.

As a back-up weapon, it ain't very alluring, other small weapons are much more attractive, even with higher heat generation, its not like light mechs can just stand in fire, they have to retreat at times which gives time for cooling.

EDIT and as it is, there is little reason to pack "anti-light-mech" weapons. I'm better off just aiming carefully and killing them at once with heavier weapons. The weight used for them can be used for ammo or armor, or jump jets or some other useful thing.

 

[BattleMonkey]

With very short range, less damage that a small (pulse) laser, and limited ammo that is vulnerable to ammo-explosion...
Hell, total, it weights more than either a small laser or a small pulse laser, for the same weight you can have a small laser with one heat sink.
Or i could add a heatsink and some armor.

As a back-up weapon, it ain't very alluring, other small weapons are much more attractive, even with higher heat generation, its not like light mechs can just stand in fire, they have to retreat at times which gives time for cooling.

EDIT and as it is, there is little reason to pack "anti-light-mech" weapons. I'm better off just aiming carefully and killing them at once with heavier weapons. The weight used for them can be used for ammo or armor, or jump jets or some other useful thing.

Machine guns have better range than small lasers. For the weight of a small pulse you can get two machine guns. Small pulse laser has 1.24 DPS while the two machine guns together have a DPS of 2 and longer range, as well as no heat generation. You don't have to worry about running out of ammo either with how much you get, it's nonstop firing unlike the small lasers still generating heat and their fire delays. Small lasers just have a better burst upfront hit but sustained dps, the MG's are superior. The ammo is only negative right now to the MG's and needing more slots. But if your running a ballistic slot heavy mech, it makes more sense to probably take MG's especially since your likely using CASE as well.

 

[Noisepurge]

We were talking about the table-top Project Phoenix Warhammer.

oh i see sorry!

 

[Woorloog]

Machine guns have better range than small lasers. For the weight of a small pulse you can get two machine guns. Small pulse laser has 1.24 DPS while the two machine guns together have a DPS of 2 and longer range, as well as no heat generation. You don't have to worry about running out of ammo either with how much you get, it's nonstop firing unlike the small lasers still generating heat and their fire delays. Small lasers just have a better burst upfront hit but sustained dps, the MG's are superior. The ammo is only negative right now to the MG's and needing more slots. But if your running a ballistic slot heavy mech, it makes more sense to probably take MG's especially since your likely using CASE as well.

Missed that range thing... OK, they're not that bad then. Still kinda worthless... Unless they're in large numbers (preferrably 3+), just like Small (Pulse) Lasers.
But burst DPS is current much better than sustained. And that's the problem. Unless they make sustained DPS more desirable, or make MGs viable in other ways (there ain't many mechs that can, or would, boat MGs, unlike Small (Pulse) Lasers)...

CASE: Unless i have Gauss Rifle in either torso, why would i use CASE? Waste of half a ton, i'd rather place my ammo in legs or head (or arms as in my Catapult, i spend that ammo fast enough for it not to be dangerous).
Hell, i'd use the weight for a MG rather than for CASE...

 

[BattleMonkey]

Missed that range thing... OK, they're not that bad then. Still kinda worthless... Unless they're in large numbers (preferrably 3+), just like Small (Pulse) Lasers.
But burst DPS is current much better than sustained. And that's the problem. Unless they make sustained DPS more desirable, or make MGs viable in other ways (there ain't many mechs that can, or would, boat MGs, unlike Small (Pulse) Lasers)...

CASE: Unless i have Gauss Rifle in either torso, why would i use CASE? Waste of half a ton, i'd rather place my ammo in legs or head (or arms as in my Catapult, i spend that ammo fast enough for it not to be dangerous).
Hell, i'd use the weight for a MG rather than for CASE...

Course, but again I'm talking about ballistic boat variants which there are a few and your going to be loaded to the gills in ammo and few to no energy slots

 

[Woorloog]

Course, but again I'm talking about ballistic boat variants which there are a few and your going to be loaded to the gills in ammo and few to no energy slots

Of which there are... what, 2 (Jagers)? 3 if you count that one Spider.
Perhaps Dragon N, though it is just plain silly variant.
All of which are better of using other weapons, usually people try to have much more range than what Small Lasers and MGs offer, or even Medium Pulses.
Yeah, MGs are light but pretty sure there are better ideas for filler.

 

[Zaptruder]

They already buffed them twice, it will be ridiculous to make them anymore powerful. Machineguns aren't meant to be a main weapon of any kind.

SLs, SPLs, MGs, Flamers are all underpowered.

MLs are the correct backup weapons of choice for most mechs.

MGs could stand to be buffed to... 1.5 DPS. Which when you take into account how much it sprays everywhere, isn't that much damage.

In a light mech, attacking another light mech, you'd have to be a supremely talented player to keep your DPS on target the entire time, much more so to keep it on target on a specific spot.

Also, 2MGs to 1SPL is an erroneous comparison - 2SPL to 2MGs is a better comparison, given the ton of ammo you need to carry.

DPS is definetly worth less than upfront damage in this game - having to keep your mech pointed at the enemy mech is a big liability that is wholly underrepresented in the balancing stakes of this game.

At 1.5 DPS (maybe even 2), MGs go from jokey sub par weapons to interesting weapons that could actually be worth while despite their drawbacks. Of course at that DPS, you'd want to take out the 'crit seeking' capabilities of it... not that that ever did much.

At the same time, SLs and SPLs could stand to be buffed. 90m to 150m would be ideal. Maybe a lower recycle time on the weapon as well.

And flamers can definetly stand to see a big damage buff - again to account for the fact that it's a constant DPS weapon where your mech needs to face towards the enemy to deal damage.

 

[Woorloog]

SNIP

With these changes, the Medium Pulse Laser would need a slight range buff at least, i think. 20-30 meters extra.

Would like those changes though, mostly a buff for lighter mechs, which is good.
Big weapons would still rule but at least smaller weapons would be better back-ups, and deadly in skilled hands, especially combined with light mech hit-and-run tactics.

 

[BattleMonkey]

SLs, SPLs, MGs, Flamers are all underpowered.

MLs are the correct backup weapons of choice for most mechs.

MGs could stand to be buffed to... 1.5 DPS. Which when you take into account how much it sprays everywhere, isn't that much damage.

In a light mech, attacking another light mech, you'd have to be a supremely talented player to keep your DPS on target the entire time, much more so to keep it on target on a specific spot.

Also, 2MGs to 1SPL is an erroneous comparison - 2SPL to 2MGs is a better comparison, given the ton of ammo you need to carry.

DPS is definetly worth less than upfront damage in this game - having to keep your mech pointed at the enemy mech is a big liability that is wholly underrepresented in the balancing stakes of this game.

At 1.5 DPS (maybe even 2), MGs go from jokey sub par weapons to interesting weapons that could actually be worth while despite their drawbacks. Of course at that DPS, you'd want to take out the 'crit seeking' capabilities of it... not that that ever did much.

At the same time, SLs and SPLs could stand to be buffed. 90m to 150m would be ideal. Maybe a lower recycle time on the weapon as well.

And flamers can definetly stand to see a big damage buff - again to account for the fact that it's a constant DPS weapon where your mech needs to face towards the enemy to deal damage.

My preference is based off the no heat generation of the machine guns, they aren't great but those SPL's are generating 5 heat per shot while with the machine guns you get zero heat and I don't mean to ever use them as the sole weapon. I'm firing my main guns a the target while I'm also firing those MG's non stop at the target. With the lasers I'm having to hold back from firing my secondaries in favor of the heat generation of my main heavy weapons. Course with alphastrikewarrior online I can see why folks just go pshaw at the idea of having a more prolonged enagements or sustained damage.

Is the extra crit on MG's not working right now? It may not seem like much, but it's still a nice little bonus. Now I won't mind a slight damage increase, I'm ok with the MG's as is, but just don't think they should be made too much more powerful otherwise everything else is going to need some buffing.

 

[Woorloog]

My preference is based off the no heat generation of the machine guns, they aren't great but those SPL's are generating 5 heat per shot while with the machine guns you get zero heat and I don't mean to ever use them as the sole weapon. I'm firing my main guns a the target while I'm also firing those MG's non stop at the target. With the lasers I'm having to hold back from firing my secondaries in favor of the heat generation of my main heavy weapons. Course with alphastrikewarrior online I can see why folks just go pshaw at the idea of having a more prolonged enagements or sustained damage.

Is the extra crit on MG's not working right now? It may not seem like much, but it's still a nice little bonus.

At what range are you fighting usually?
I usually fight at range where Small Lasers or MGs are more less worthless, even if i could keep them trained on my target all the time. (My Quickdraw tries to stay at 200-250 meters , and my Catapult and Blackjack are 600+ meters mechs)
It is not just that the game is badly build around alpha striking, but that the standard engagement ranges are too long.
The original idea was to set the game to urban and other tight environments to avoid circle strafing and jump sniping... If the game were done as intended, then smaller weapons would be slightly more useful even without extra buffs. (Though alpha striking would be still the king)

 

[Zaptruder]

My preference is based off the no heat generation of the machine guns, they aren't great but those SPL's are generating 5 heat per shot while with the machine guns you get zero heat and I don't mean to ever use them as the sole weapon. I'm firing my main guns a the target while I'm also firing those MG's non stop at the target. With the lasers I'm having to hold back from firing my secondaries in favor of the heat generation of my main heavy weapons. Course with alphastrikewarrior online I can see why folks just go pshaw at the idea of having a more prolonged enagements or sustained damage.

Is the extra crit on MG's not working right now? It may not seem like much, but it's still a nice little bonus. Now I won't mind a slight damage increase, I'm ok with the MG's as is, but just don't think they should be made too much more powerful otherwise everything else is going to need some buffing.

Heat is an overrated balancing factor. It's mitigated largely by short range, lack of concentrated damage and the need to face opponents constantly.

As I said - there's a large advantage for front loaded damage weapons in this game in not just been able to seek cover (which helps immensely with heat issues), but even in just been able to juke and turn your mech to defray damage.

The more you have to keep your weapon on target, the more the weapon needs to buffed to accord with that fact.

As a result, a mech with 4 MGs *should* have a large advantage over a mech with 4-6SLs in a straight up brawl, irrespective of the heat it puts out; but in a real battle, where the SL mech gets to weave and juke, it's able to both cool off and defray much of the advantage of the higher DPS MG mech, while also been much more effective at hit and run tactics.

 

[ColonelSkills]

Good lord, the official forums for this game are toxic.

There are balance issues of course but project phoenix isn't any sort of bad.

The locust is great aesthetically, and the MG spam could make it interesting if the MG mechanics change slightly (which I hope they do). Those sort of ultra Lights need a bit more utility across the board though.

 

[Zaptruder]

Good lord, the official forums for this game are toxic.

There are balance issues of course but project phoenix isn't any sort of bad.

The locust is great aesthetically, and the MG spam could make it interesting if the MG mechanics change slightly (which I hope they do). Those sort of ultra Lights need a bit more utility across the board though.

To be honest, I think a large amount of future balancing will rest on the idea of dropship mode. Which I think is to a large extent why the devs have been reluctant to change many things in the game now (because they've demonstrated a tendency to hold out on making changes even though things are clearly broken, at least until whatever subsystem they think will fix things has been brought in to the game - e.g. Raven 3Ls and Ballistic State Rewind).

Under a 4 mech/200 ton limit sort of system, small mechs will have their place to help fill out the larger mechs that players take into the game.

Similarly, having 4 mechs instead of 2-3 PPC/gauss boats might be what they think will be the balancing factor for those types of builds.

But I can't help but feel like that will just push the meta towards 2 Jenner/Raven 3Ls, 2 AC20 Jagermech drops.

 

[Woorloog]

Dragon Slayer coming soon.
Victor Hero, looks like Gauss Rifle, 2xSLAS/MLAS, SRM6, PPC.
I'm probably wrong though, hard to say.
EDIT, wait, if that's Victor, it looks really ugly.

Also, Shadow Hawk reveal.
The shoulder cannon is cool though it looks kinda silly overall.
Still, both revealed mechs look great.

 

[teepo]

who remembers when the game used to look like this?

and for the sake of comparison,

imo, the mechs no longer look like premium warmachines and are slowly starting to resemble toys, with that hideous hero Victor pushing it further towards that direction.

 

[Woorloog]

who remembers when the game used to look like this?

http://www.gamershell.com/static/screenshots/27770/625966_full.jpg[IMG]

and for the sake of comparison,

[img]http://i.imgur.com/uOodjQV.jpg?1p[img]

imo, the mechs no longer look like premium warmachines and are slowly starting to resemble toys, with that hideous hero Victor pushing it further towards that direction.[/QUOTE]
Fucking Forest Colony, looks way too dark nowadays. Hard to see anything.

 

[Orayn]

Okay, so I'm finally working on the OT for full release. Any general thoughts on what essential information and links it needs to include? Tone, content, and length are going to be fairly similar to the OT of this thread, though I am making new images.