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[icecream]

Nope, Namco expected 500k in North America and Japan this year. Let's say it gets 250k combined (I'd say about split sales for both territories), that's 50% below expectation.

500K worldwide actually (NA, Japan, Asia). Their projections for Japan were 120K.

 

[Lagunamov]

Mmmm, good for Vesperia (It was released 08/07)

 

[kay]

500K worldwide actually (NA, Japan, Asia). Their projections for Japan were 120K.

They never broke down estimates for each region.

And I don't see totals out of Japan being too stellar to get to 500k, even if you include Asia.

 

[Narcosis]

Just for reference: Lost Odyssey debuted at less than 100K in japan and still went on to somewhere around 700K in total sales worldwide. 500K for Vesperia is possible.

 

[schuelma]

Just for reference: Lost Odyssey debuted at less than 100K in japan and still went on to somewhere around 700K in total sales worldwide. 500K for Vesperia is possible.

I have my doubts that Vesperia can do as well as LO in N.A

 

[jimbo]

Just for reference: Lost Odyssey debuted at less than 100K in japan and still went on to somewhere around 700K in total sales worldwide. 500K for Vesperia is possible.

That's what I was going to say. But LO probably has more western appeal than something like Tales. See Eternal Sonata.

PS: I just rented LO yesterday, I am like a year behind on 360 games. I haven't even played Halo 3.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Just for reference: Lost Odyssey debuted at less than 100K in japan and still went on to somewhere around 700K in total sales worldwide. 500K for Vesperia is possible.

Sort of.

Shipped, not sold first of all. Second, Microsoft did a fairly large ad campaign for LO and released it in a lull. Namco is releasing Vesperia in the middle of a massive deluge of quality games, including direct competition on the same platform, and isn't likely to advertise the game beyond the bare minimum.

 

[Linkup]

Just for reference: Lost Odyssey debuted at less than 100K in japan and still went on to somewhere around 700K in total sales worldwide. 500K for Vesperia is possible.

source?

 

[jimbo]

Sort of.

Shipped, not sold first of all. Second, Microsoft did a fairly large ad campaign for LO and released it in a lull. Namco is releasing Vesperia in the middle of a massive deluge of quality games, including direct competition on the same platform, and isn't likely to advertise the game beyond the bare minimum.

Unlike consles, shipped pretty much = sold when it comes to software.

 

[gtj1092]

Just for reference: Lost Odyssey debuted at less than 100K in japan and still went on to somewhere around 700K in total sales worldwide. 500K for Vesperia is possible.

I always see this in threads. Not doubting but it seems to be a GAF-->internet-->GAF thing.

Is this a shipped number because looking at the sales that are documented I don't see it?

Someone enlighten me.


edit: seems i wasn't the only one:lol

 

[Narcosis]

I have my doubts that Vesperia can do as well as LO in N.A

Yeah, I'd have to agree, especially considering the marketing push MS put behind LO, but I was just stating the possibility, not probability. 100K debut for a 360 exclusive in Japan is not a bad start at all.

 

[gtj1092]

Unlike consles, shipped pretty much = sold when it comes to software.

Why would it be different?

 

[Stumpokapow]

Unlike consles, shipped pretty much = sold when it comes to software.

Yeah like when Famitsu reported 120k for Mario Strikers Charged and Nintendo reported 210k...

... or last fall, when Sony announced million-ship marks for several titles when lifetime tracked sales in US+JPN were <250k.

Never any disparity!

 

[kay]

I don't see tales having the greatest of launches in NA, not as good as LO. It isn't too high on amazon.com charts right now (330 or so), even Disgaea 3 is about 100 spots ahead of it and they launch on the same day. Lost Odyssey was in the top 25 for a while. Infinite Undiscovery looks like it's going to do really good though.

 

[jimbo]

Why would it be different?

Because unsold consoles sitting on store shelves aren't going to push future software sales, so it affects everyone. Unsold software affects retailers.

Once Namco shipped the game, they got paid. And that is what we are talking about here, profit, right? There's no profit to be made by anyone on unsold consoles.

And it's unlikely they care if there's copies sitting on store shelves, because most games dry up within months. Unlike consoles, which need to have a good shipped/sell through ratio, for re-stocking to continue consistently, major re-ordering and re-stocking on games just doesn't happen.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Because unsold consoles sitting on store shelves aren't going to push future software sales, so it affects everyone. Unsold software affects retailers.

Once Namco shipped the game, they got paid. And it's unlikely they care if there's copies sitting on store shelves, because most games dry up within months. Unlike consoles, which need to have a good shipped/sell through ratio, since re-stock will continue continue consistently, major re-ordering and re-stocking on games just doesn't happen.

Unsold software leads to the retailer ordering fewer copies of the next installment or product. The software companies care about unsold stock, believe that.

 

[Johann]

Lost Odyssey had a lot of good marketing in the form of a large selection of advertisements, the 'from the creator of Final Fantasy" sign plastered on it, and shipping during a less competitive month.

Shipped doesn't do much for a retailer if they only take up space in the store when a better product could be in its place.

 

[Rpgmonkey]

I don't see tales having the greatest of launches in NA, not as good as LO. It isn't too high on amazon.com charts right now (330 or so), even Disgaea 3 is about 100 spots ahead of it and they launch on the same day. Lost Odyssey was in the top 25 for a while. Infinite Undiscovery looks like it's going to do really good though.

*Looks*

Wow it's true...

 

[donny2112]

And it's unlikely they care if there's copies sitting on store shelves, because most games dry up within months.

They do? Then what's with Jonnyram reporting that new NES games can still be found in shops in Japan? Why do games that don't even chart in the weekly Top 30 sell for the next two years?

Games that have short print runs with some demand and a publisher that never makes a second printing run out in Japan. I'd say that most games stick around for quite a while in various shops around the country, though.

 

[jimbo]

Lost Odyssey had a lot of good marketing in the form of a large selection of advertisements, the 'from the creator of Final Fantasy" sign plastered on it, and shipping during a less competitive month.

Shipped doesn't do much for a retailer if they only take up space in the store when a better product could be in its place.

I agree but we are talking about Namco here, not retailers.

They do? Then what's with Jonnyram reporting that new NES games can still be found in shops in Japan? Why do games that don't even chart in the weekly Top 30 sell for the next two years?

Most. Most /= all.

 

[Stumpokapow]

They do? Then what's with Jonnyram reporting that new NES games can still be found in shops in Japan? Why do games that don't even chart in the weekly Top 30 sell for the next two years?

Even in the US/Canada it's not uncommon to still find sealed early PS2/GCN games. You're substantially LESS likely to find them than recently released games, sure, but if every second retailers has one or two copies of a game, you're looking at tens of thousands of unsold copies.

I agree but we are talking about Namco here, not retailers.

Okay but here's where things are going off the rails:

Namco released expectations, which are shipments. You said those expectations are reasonable, citing Lost Odyssey. Lost Odyssey is a pretty notable example shipments, at least initially, being higher than sales. In addition to this, you were presented with the advertising and release calendar arguments, likely to further impact ToV's sales.

We're discussing sale potential; essentially disregarding Namco's ability to ship or dupe retailers and concentrating on whether or not consumers will end up buying the product.

At first you appeared to be discussing sale potential, and then you said that there's no sense distinguishing between shipments and sales, but now you seem to be saying that you're just talking about shipments, which isn't really what we were discussing to begin with.

 

[Jonnyram]

They never broke down estimates for each region.

They did. Namco specifically said 120k for Japan.

 

[PantherLotus]

PS2 	Tales of Destiny 2 							739,028
PS2 	Tales of Rebirth 							596,493
PS2 	Tales of the Abyss 							556,465
PS2 	Tales of Symphonia 							390,414
PS2 	Tales of Destiny 							367,998
PS2 	Tales of Legendia 							342,779
GCN 	Tales of Symphonia 							311,473
PSP 	Tales of The World: Radiant Mythology 					214,128
DS 	Tales of the Tempest 							205,541
DS 	Tales of Innocence 							196,913
Wii 	Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World 				194,219
PSP 	Tales of Eternia 							193,458
GBA 	Tales of the drill WARUDONARI Dungeon 2 				163,043
PS2 	Tales of Destiny Director's Cut 					142,301
GBA 	Tales of Phantasia 							134,608
PSP 	Tales of Destiny 2 							114,757
GBA 	Tales of the World : Narikiri Dungeon 3 				113,414
PSP 	Tales of Phantasia: Full Voice Edition 					111,034
PS2 	Tales of Fandom Vol. 2 (TIABAJON / RUKUBAJON) 				86,337
PSP 	Tales of Rebirth 							75,301
PSP 	Tales of Eternia (PSP the Best) 					55,632
PS2 	Tales of the Abyss (BEST) 						49,945
PS2 	Tales of Symphonia (PlayStation 2 the Best) 				47,873
GBA 	Tales of the World to SAMONAZU to RINEJI 				19,959

Should any of these be combined for charting purposes? This is obviously the Famitsu version of the numbers and does not include Vesperia. Yet.

 

[Busaiku]

Should any of these be combined for charting purposes? This is obviously the Famitsu version of the numbers and does not include Vesperia. Yet.

Your Innocence number is kinda dated, I think. Those seem to be the numbers from the top 500 of last year.
Moor-Angol has it at 210,697. Though I'm not sure where that dates back to.

So, guess I'm not too sure either...

 

[donny2112]

GBOY Tales of Phantasia: Narikiri Dungeon 155K
PS1 Tales of Destiny 830K
PS1 Tales of Destiny (BEST) 66K
PS1 Tales of Eternia 669K
PS1 Tales of Eternia (BEST) 3K
PS1 Tales of Fandom Vol. 1 89K
PS1 Tales of Phantasia 550K
PS1 Tales of Phantasia (BEST) 82K

Moor-Angol has it at 210,697. Though I'm not sure where that dates back to.

20080127

 

[PantherLotus]

donny, what's your source so i can cite it on the chart? this will have to be a mixed-source chart.

PS1 	Tales of Destiny 					830,000
PS2 	Tales of Destiny 2 					739,028
PS1 	Tales of Eternia 					669,000
PS2 	Tales of Rebirth 					596,493
PS2 	Tales of the Abyss 					556,465
PS1 	Tales of Phantasia 					550,000
PS2 	Tales of Symphonia 					390,414
PS2 	Tales of Destiny 					367,998
PS2 	Tales of Legendia 					342,779
GCN 	Tales of Symphonia 					311,473
PSP 	Tales of The World: Radiant Mythology 			214,128
DS 	Tales of the Tempest 					205,541
DS 	Tales of Innocence 					196,913
Wii 	Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World 		194,219
PSP 	Tales of Eternia 					193,458
GBA 	Tales of the drill WARUDONARI Dungeon 2 		163,043
GBOY	Tales of Phantasia: Narikiri Dungeon 			155,000
PS2 	Tales of Destiny Director's Cut 			142,301
GBA 	Tales of Phantasia 					134,608
PSP 	Tales of Destiny 2 					114,757
GBA 	Tales of the World : Narikiri Dungeon 3 		113,414
PSP 	Tales of Phantasia: Full Voice Edition 			111,034
PS1 	Tales of Fandom Vol. 1 					89,000
PS2 	Tales of Fandom Vol. 2 (TIABAJON / RUKUBAJON) 		86,337
PS1 	Tales of Phantasia (BEST) 				82,000
PSP 	Tales of Rebirth 					75,301
PS1 	Tales of Destiny (BEST) 				66,000
PSP 	Tales of Eternia (PSP the Best) 			55,632
PS2 	Tales of the Abyss (BEST) 				49,945
PS2 	Tales of Symphonia (PlayStation 2 the Best) 		47,873
GBA 	Tales of the World to SAMONAZU to RINEJI 		19,959
PS1 	Tales of Eternia (BEST) 				3,000

 

[donny2112]

donny, what's your source so i can cite it on the chart?

Famitsu. That's usually a safe assumption with any software numbers I post.

 

[Somnia]

source?

I don't have a source, but if you add it up it is close. In Japan it broke over 100k, in America its done over 300k and if I remember right it did around 150-200k in Europe. Not counting whatever else its sold since then or in other countries. For a total of 600-650k sold...not shipped. I do not remember where I read about the Europe numbers, but I'm pretty positive that is what it was around. I know for a fact it broke 300k in US and over 100k in Japan. It's not hard to see it more than likely did around 600-650k world-wide SOLD.

 

[Arpharmd B]

Yeah lost oddysey was high up on the NPD charts when it debuted around 300k. Japan 100k dunno Europe numbers.

 

[Slurmer]

I don't see tales having the greatest of launches in NA, not as good as LO. It isn't too high on amazon.com charts right now (330 or so), even Disgaea 3 is about 100 spots ahead of it and they launch on the same day.

wow.

 

[Jasoncheng]

Gpara-Ranking
http://www.gpara.com/ranking/mediacreatebn/ranking_20080814.php

TOP30
NDS:12
Wii:7
PSP:4
PS2:3
XBOX360:2
PS3:2


DQ5 > 1m

 

[FateBreaker]

They never broke down estimates for each region.

And I don't see totals out of Japan being too stellar to get to 500k, even if you include Asia.

I'm pretty darn sure they did.

Man, Vesperia shows good sales and in effect good 360 sales, and all a bunch of people do is claim how much better it could have done on PS3. Sheeesh.

Gpara-Ranking
http://www.gpara.com/ranking/mediacreatebn/ranking_20080814.php

TOP30
NDS:12
Wii:7
PSP:4
PS2:3
XBOX360:2
PS3:2


DQ5 > 1m

so it's 108,000, not 100k? Cool. Also, do these include the 10,000 ToV bundles? Anyone know?

 

[jimbo]

Even in the US/Canada it's not uncommon to still find sealed early PS2/GCN games. You're substantially LESS likely to find them than recently released games, sure, but if every second retailers has one or two copies of a game, you're looking at tens of thousands of unsold copies.



Okay but here's where things are going off the rails:

Namco released expectations, which are shipments. You said those expectations are reasonable, citing Lost Odyssey. Lost Odyssey is a pretty notable example shipments, at least initially, being higher than sales. In addition to this, you were presented with the advertising and release calendar arguments, likely to further impact ToV's sales.

We're discussing sale potential; essentially disregarding Namco's ability to ship or dupe retailers and concentrating on whether or not consumers will end up buying the product.

At first you appeared to be discussing sale potential, and then you said that there's no sense distinguishing between shipments and sales, but now you seem to be saying that you're just talking about shipments, which isn't really what we were discussing to begin with.

No, the argument I was taking part in was Namco's profitability and overall satisfaction with the sales, in which case they should be pretty happy for meeting or exceeding their own shipment forecasts. And also with most games, retailers decide how many to order, only huge releases get shoved down retailers throats, where in that case you could actually talk about anyone being duped. I don't think this is the case here.

Nor do I think ToV would be the type of game you would still see selling brand new in stores 10 years from now regardless of which platform it launched on, or if it did 300k or 150k first week.

Besides, had the game been released on the PS3, it probably would have sold better in Japan, but worse than on 360 everywhere else.

I swear people are making this game out to be like FF. Sometimes the series itself has a lot to do with the sales.

 

[schuelma]

so it's 108,000, not 100k? Cool. Also, do these include the 10,000 ToV bundles? Anyone know?

To clarify, those are two different numbers used by two different trackers. The 100K is Famitsu. The 108K is Media Create. I tend to follow Famitsu because they give numbers for the top 30, making tracking a bit easier.

 

[PuppetMaster]

Wow... this thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=330365&page=11


A lot of crow to be eaten this day.

 

[gkryhewy]

Why was this thread bumped?

 

[Parl]

Because, this day, a lot of crow to be eaten.

 

[VAIL]

Because, this day, a lot of crow to be eaten.

Bumping old threads will get you killed...or

Spoiler

banned

 

[freddy]

Wow... this thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=330365&page=11


A lot of crow to be eaten this day.

Explain yourself.

 

[kay]

Man, Vesperia shows good sales

100k first week for a Tales games of that caliber is/was horrendous, whatever the expectations were.

 

[PuppetMaster]

Explain yourself.

Honestly, I accidentally posted in the wrong thread. This meant for elsewhere. Just let this one settle to the bottom.