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[Magic Mile]

Whats with the doom and gloom on Wii software sales? If those are so bad, what does that make PS3 and 360 software sales, which are far worse?

Would anyone actually expect Zack & Wiki PS3/360 or Super Mario Galaxy on PS3/360 to do better?

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Whats with the doom and gloom on Wii software sales? If those are so bad, what does that make PS3 and 360 software sales, which are far worse?

Would anyone actually expect Zack & Wiki PS3/360 or Super Mario Galaxy on PS3/360 to do better?

No, we're expecting Zack and Wiki DS and NSMB2 to perform well.

 

[birdchili]

I'm gonna let you guys on a little secret: the reason why consoles are no longer "it" in Japan, is because now the portables are sophisticated "enough" ("enough" being a relative term) to handle traditional console games without a problem.

and by extension, given a similar experience, people prefer the relative advantages of a handheld (portability, no competition with the family tv) over that of a console (more comfortable interface, bigger sound/display)?

ummm... go consoles!?

 

[Mariah Carey]

I'm gonna let you guys on a little secret: the reason why consoles are no longer "it" in Japan, is because now the portables are sophisticated "enough" ("enough" being a relative term) to handle traditional console games without a problem.

Of course this point will be lost on those who consider hardware horsepower the driving force of the industry.

That's true, but it's really only half the story. People who grew up with the Famicom are growing up and having families and are getting busier than ever. They can't keep up the lifestyle of playing in their living rooms for hours anymore. They need a pick-up-and-play experience, and handhelds now provide a pick-up-and-play-anywhere version of the core games they were used to.

Handheld videogames aren't a "cause," but a way of still capturing PS2 customers who've moved on from consoles (and, with the DS, also hitting that "everyone" demographic).

 

[taconinja]

and by extension, given a similar experience, people prefer the relative advantages of a handheld (portability, no competition with the family tv) over that of a console (more comfortable interface, bigger sound/display)?

ummm... go consoles!?

That might be Nintendo's strategy concerning the Wii and the plethora of party games. Use the DS as its main hardcore platform while still offering up some hardcore Wii titles, but focus on what the DS can not do when developing for the Wii, such as better multiplayer, etc.

Please note, I'm not saying this will or should make people happy.

 

[pswii60]

Whats with the doom and gloom on Wii software sales? If those are so bad, what does that make PS3 and 360 software sales, which are far worse?

Would anyone actually expect Zack & Wiki PS3/360 or Super Mario Galaxy on PS3/360 to do better?

Stop repeating yourself.

 

[Neomoto]

I believe the second best launch of the DS's first 12 months was Jump Super Stars, a "core oriented" title if there ever was one. And while that game was published by Nintendo it was developed by a third party and contains all non-Nintendo IP, similar to something like FFTA. I maintain that while Nintendo was powerful in the early DS lineup (as they always are) they weren't alone in driving sales.

It's kinda ridiculous to expect them to be, honestly. GBA was not a Nintendo-only machine and I doubt the knowledgable "hardcore" consumer expected the DS to be unlike its predecessor. That was considered Sony FUD three years ago, it's a little surprising to hear it repeated as a pro-Nintendo talking point now.

Jump Super Stars had hype, it was a "Nintendo title" no matter who made it for Nintendo, it had the marketing and iirc there was also a bottleneck with the licenses for all the characters and such. It was the first time such a game was made right? And except for the sequal no other game like that came forth from anyone. Even if we were to asume that JSS could be a normal 3rd party ds game, I would be very surprised if it would have performed as well as it did software and hardware pushing wise.

And of course they weren't alone, but they had the lion share.

Even to this day, years later first party titles are ridiculously high compared to everything else..

This comes from a thread on gaf about DS / PSP software LTD and such

80 Nintendo - 51,498,065 Avg - 643,726
12 Square Enix - 4,746,359 Avg - 395,530
28 Bandai - 3,962,256 Avg - 141,509
23 Sega - 2,725,047 Avg - 118,480
12 Capcom - 2,011,083 Avg - 167,590
32 Konami - 1,835,333 Avg - 57,354
17 Namco - 1,475,827 Avg - 86,813
15 IE - 893,544 Avg - 59,570
11 Marvelous - 781,287 Avg - 71,026
5 Rocket - 740,267 Avg - 148,053
14 Hudson - 601,047 Avg - 42,932
1 Level 5 - 593,852 Avg - 593,852
4 Tomy - 490,128 Avg - 122,532
6 Spike - 465,770 Avg - 77,628
5 Banpresto - 456,532 Avg - 91,306
9 Takara Tomy - 416,446 Avg - 46,272
2 Shogakukan - 322,846 Avg - 161,423
6 TDK - 306,614 Avg - 51,102
6 MTO - 282,591 Avg - 47,099
7 EA - 250,723 Avg - 35,818
13 Success - 221,570 Avg - 17,044
11 D3 - 201,174 Avg - 18,289
11 Taito - 199,376 Avg - 18,125
3 Atlus - 168,881 Avg - 56,294
5 Koei - 145,125 Avg - 29,025
3 Tecmo - 115,582 Avg - 38,527
10 Interchannel - 90,600 Avg - 9,060
1 Agatsuma - 86,917 Avg - 86,917
2 Benesse - 72,987 Avg - 36,494
1 Paon - 65,276 Avg - 65,276
1 Sammy - 46,353 Avg - 46,353
2 Kadokawa - 43,397 Avg - 21,699
3 Ertain - 43,020 Avg - 14,340
4 Genki - 38,297 Avg - 9,574
3 SNK - 32,959 Avg - 10,986
1 Milestone - 29,000 Avg - 29,000
1 Gust - 27,000 Avg - 27,000
4 Gakken - 25,296 Avg - 6,324
1 Dimple - 21,284 Avg - 21,284
1 From - 20,997 Avg - 20,997
1 Now - 19,000 Avg - 19,000
1 Arc System - 17,664 Avg - 17,664
1 Plato - 16,000 Avg - 16,000
1 Four Wings 15,713 Avg - 15,713
1 ASK 12,000 Avg - 12,000
1 3 O'Clock 11,958 Avg - 11,958
1 Kids Station - 11,383 Avg - 11,383
1 Aruze - 9,613 Avg - 9,613
8 Starfish - 9,550 Avg - 1,194
1 Mycom - 8,400 Avg - 8,400
1 VU 5,463 Avg - 5,463
1 ASNetworks - 5,000 Avg - 5,000
1 Disney - 5,000 Avg - 5,000
2 THQ - 3,500 Avg - 1,750
2 Compile Heart - 3,000 Avg - 1,500
1 Jaleco - 2,000 Avg - 2,000
1 Kokuyo - 1,000 Avg - 1,000
1 Culture Brain - 900 Avg - 900
1 Pi Arts - 650 Avg - 650

404 - 76,708,502

Even though my post wasn't about games alone which you thought so apparently, this doesn't paint a pretty picture for 3rd party's in Japan since launch (obviously, the DS is still a very viable system for third party's all around and they make a decent/good profit but that wasn't the argument). But like I said, this is the time for 3rd party's to shine and they are starting to do so. More and more higher profile games are hitting the system, better sales are happening (like Layton who have become a huge succes) and I think that say Square Enix will most likely see it's numbers more than double with DQ IV and DQ IX alone when it's all said and done. And of course it helpes a great deal that Nintendo has already released most of it's huge killer apps (until, of course, the third pokemon edition comes out and who knows what else they have in the works).

 

[ethelred]

Okay, people. You win; I give up. Clearly early DS adopters did so without the expectation that the system would function as a recipient of successful, sales-driving third party games like those of Square Enix (who announced a slew of games before and during the DS launch) or Capcom. And clearly the DS's subsequent popularity was driven not by the totality of its deep and diverse software library; rather, it was driven only by Nintendo games' popularity, which is why third parties across the board have consistently since launch performed poorly. Clearly there were no significant segments of the DS userbase that bought in based on personal interest in any of the third party games over half a million. Clearly DRAGON QUEST 9 played no role in helping the DS continue to exceed every expectation. And just as Weishit says that the Wii need no third party games in the sense that the DS needed none of them, clearly the DS would have performed just as monumentally well with such a consistent level of broadbased popularity without any third party games.

You win. I finally give up.

 

[charlequin]

He's not arguing that. He's simply saying its never a good idea to base Famitsu's Most Wanted on how something will sell.

Yes, I understand that. I'm saying the Fami list thing is a side note, a diversionary point. You can edit ethelred's post and remove all mention of it, and the actual point -- that the DS is getting four DQ games which are going to sell like coke-smeared pancakes -- is completely unchanged.

The GBA's success shouldn't be such a factor. I am reminded of the PS2's success and the position of the PS3 now.

I think this is a false dichotomy.

The way console transitions work is pretty well understood, really. The level of success a console sees is something like {predecessor's succeess} + {gain from changes that make new system better} - {harm from changes that make new system worse}. In the absence of market shifts, notable changes in strategy, or other such adjustments, systems will tend to do similarly to their predecessor.

PS1 -> PS2 is a good example of this. The third-party support of the PS1 transferred pretty much straight up to its successor system, not because it did anything that made it better than its competitors, but because third parties were dancing with the guy what brung 'em. It's when disruptive elements are introduced that things work out differently, and even then, those disruptions don't always affect every aspect of a console.

The point is that a system's success obviously isn't the same as its predecessor, but it does tend to be based on it -- i.e. the more successful you were last time, the more slack you get cut in your areas of success.

The DS had a disruptive element -- the introduction of non-games -- but otherwise it started out carrying over the GBA's success by default. Someone who was happy with the GBA and its third-party offerings could have purchased the DS under the assumption that they'd get more of the same, and they'd be right -- Castlevania, Gyakuten Saiban, FFTA, Rockman.exe -- these franchises all did indeed carry over to the DS.

So basically the Wii needs more S-E games?

The DS owes the lion's share of its third party success to S-E and Capcom; both are at least partially on board with the Wii, but more support from both could easily be the tipping point between the Wii as a good and a lousy third-party system.

 

[Magic Mile]

Stop repeating yourself.

I am repeating myself because some people are thick headed. People call out the Wii userbase as casuals who buy no games, and that Wii has terrible software sales, and I think both of those statements are myths.

Wii is the most viable home console software platform in Japan right now. It's either the Wii or nothing. Zack & Wiki would have done worse on PS3/360. Dragon Quest Swords would have done worse on PS3/360. etc. etc. etc. Would someone like to name a Wii Exclusive that would have done better on PS3/360?

 

[pswii60]

I am repeating myself because some people are thick headed. People call out the Wii userbase as casuals who buy no games, and that Wii has terrible software sales, and I think both of those statements are myths.

Wii is the most viable home console software platform in Japan right now. It's either the Wii or nothing. Zack & Wiki would have done worse on PS3/360. Dragon Quest Swords would have done worse on PS3/360. etc. etc. etc. Would someone like to name a Wii Exclusive that would have done better on PS3/360?

PS2?

See recent Dragon Ball Z sales figures for reference.

 

[charlequin]

Wii is the most viable home console software platform in Japan right now.

Relative standards aren't super important here. All home consoles are performing badly in Japan re: software sales, and the conclusion people are drawing is that third parties might move more and more resources to portable titles and leave consoles behind.

 

[Magic Mile]

PS2?

See recent Dragon Ball Z sales figures for reference.

Obviously, but I was referring more to the next-gen market.

Most console manufacturers will put games on platforms they see best fit.

Why didn't Sega do Master Chief & Sonic at the Olympic Games? Because that doesn't have as much sales potential or appeal as Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games.

The Wii does have a large casual fanbase, but that doesn't mean that that casual fanbase doesn't buy games.

 

[Weisheit]

Relative standards aren't super important here. All home consoles are performing badly in Japan re: software sales, and the conclusion people are drawing is that third parties might move more and more resources to portable titles and leave consoles behind.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

I'm gonna let you guys on a little secret: the reason why consoles are no longer "it" in Japan, is because now the portables are sophisticated "enough" ("enough" being a relative term) to handle traditional console games without a problem.

Of course this point will be lost on those who consider hardware horsepower the driving force of the industry.

This could be an explication. Of course time is today a big factor and maybe people have no time or will to get into the consoles where there are two handheld that have a vast library.

80 Nintendo - 51,498,065 Avg - 643,726
12 Square Enix - 4,746,359 Avg - 395,530
28 Bandai - 3,962,256 Avg - 141,509
23 Sega - 2,725,047 Avg - 118,480
12 Capcom - 2,011,083 Avg - 167,590
32 Konami - 1,835,333 Avg - 57,354
17 Namco - 1,475,827 Avg - 86,813
15 IE - 893,544 Avg - 59,570
11 Marvelous - 781,287 Avg - 71,026
5 Rocket - 740,267 Avg - 148,053
14 Hudson - 601,047 Avg - 42,932
1 Level 5 - 593,852 Avg - 593,852
4 Tomy - 490,128 Avg - 122,532
6 Spike - 465,770 Avg - 77,628
5 Banpresto - 456,532 Avg - 91,306
9 Takara Tomy - 416,446 Avg - 46,272
2 Shogakukan - 322,846 Avg - 161,423
6 TDK - 306,614 Avg - 51,102
6 MTO - 282,591 Avg - 47,099
7 EA - 250,723 Avg - 35,818
13 Success - 221,570 Avg - 17,044
11 D3 - 201,174 Avg - 18,289
11 Taito - 199,376 Avg - 18,125
3 Atlus - 168,881 Avg - 56,294
5 Koei - 145,125 Avg - 29,025
3 Tecmo - 115,582 Avg - 38,527
10 Interchannel - 90,600 Avg - 9,060
1 Agatsuma - 86,917 Avg - 86,917
2 Benesse - 72,987 Avg - 36,494
1 Paon - 65,276 Avg - 65,276
1 Sammy - 46,353 Avg - 46,353
2 Kadokawa - 43,397 Avg - 21,699
3 Ertain - 43,020 Avg - 14,340
4 Genki - 38,297 Avg - 9,574
3 SNK - 32,959 Avg - 10,986
1 Milestone - 29,000 Avg - 29,000
1 Gust - 27,000 Avg - 27,000
4 Gakken - 25,296 Avg - 6,324
1 Dimple - 21,284 Avg - 21,284
1 From - 20,997 Avg - 20,997
1 Now - 19,000 Avg - 19,000
1 Arc System - 17,664 Avg - 17,664
1 Plato - 16,000 Avg - 16,000
1 Four Wings 15,713 Avg - 15,713
1 ASK 12,000 Avg - 12,000
1 3 O'Clock 11,958 Avg - 11,958
1 Kids Station - 11,383 Avg - 11,383
1 Aruze - 9,613 Avg - 9,613
8 Starfish - 9,550 Avg - 1,194
1 Mycom - 8,400 Avg - 8,400
1 VU 5,463 Avg - 5,463
1 ASNetworks - 5,000 Avg - 5,000
1 Disney - 5,000 Avg - 5,000
2 THQ - 3,500 Avg - 1,750
2 Compile Heart - 3,000 Avg - 1,500
1 Jaleco - 2,000 Avg - 2,000
1 Kokuyo - 1,000 Avg - 1,000
1 Culture Brain - 900 Avg - 900
1 Pi Arts - 650 Avg - 650

404 - 76,708,502

HOLY CRAP. Nintendo has the 67.1 % of all software. CRAZY. And who said that Nintendo needs Third Parties is better for him to change argument.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

SMG Number: ~250,000

Great ! Such things raise the interest of these threads and give them a worthy EPO injection shot.

I'll go for a two weeks ban.

So :

SMG numbers > 350'000 = Squirrel banned for two weeks
SMG numbers < 350'000 = Kenka watches ass to mouth videos when he comes back from school for practically the rest of november

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

Okay, people. You win; I give up. Clearly early DS adopters did so without the expectation that the system would function as a recipient of successful, sales-driving third party games like those of Square Enix (who announced a slew of games before and during the DS launch) or Capcom. And clearly the DS's subsequent popularity was driven not by the totality of its deep and diverse software library; rather, it was driven only by Nintendo games' popularity, which is why third parties across the board have consistently since launch performed poorly. Clearly there were no significant segments of the DS userbase that bought in based on personal interest in any of the third party games over half a million. Clearly DRAGON QUEST 9 played no role in helping the DS continue to exceed every expectation. And just as Weishit says that the Wii need no third party games in the sense that the DS needed none of them, clearly the DS would have performed just as monumentally well with such a consistent level of broadbased popularity without any third party games.

You win. I finally give up.

This is bullshits. But what you said previously was also partly wrong. The reality is in the middle: Third Parties played a role (and not insignifiant), but Nintendo does not depend from them as Sony or Microsoft. DS success comes mostly from Nintendo, but it wouldn't be as complete and total without third parties.

 

[Eteric Rice]

SO who wants to bet that Nintendo's next console will be a handheld with A/V output much like the PSP has? That way you can play at home, or on the go!

Though I don't know how the Wii-mote would work with that...

And backwards compatability would take a hit... >_>

 

[noonche]

I am repeating myself because some people are thick headed. People call out the Wii userbase as casuals who buy no games, and that Wii has terrible software sales, and I think both of those statements are myths.

Wii is the most viable home console software platform in Japan right now. It's either the Wii or nothing. Zack & Wiki would have done worse on PS3/360. Dragon Quest Swords would have done worse on PS3/360. etc. etc. etc. Would someone like to name a Wii Exclusive that would have done better on PS3/360?

No, you're repeating yourself because you are trying to set up a straw-man argument. The argument is wether or not Wii software sales are good enough to support a large base of developers generating product. People are asserting that it is not.

It isn't a question of being 1st. There isn't some magical prize awarded for being 1st that makes you profitable. Not a single person is saying that PS3/360 are bastions of good sales. All they are saying is that Wii software sales are currently insufficient to support the amount of games that where made for the SNES, PS1 and PS2. More importantly, what is being argued is that it appears as if a similar climate of profitability is not developing around the Wii.

 

[VultureDude]

~250,000?

that's it? I guess I didn't realize how many times more popular Pokemon really is than Mario in these times...

 

[Aeris130]

~250,000?

that's it? I guess I didn't realize how many times more popular Pokemon really is than Mario in these times...

I don't think Pokemon Battle Revolution skyrocketed the system either.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

One thing I've really noticed today is that making comparisons to early November 2005 DS is a pain. Through Japan Game-Charts I can find first weeks and totals, but not what games had reached at an arbitrary date. Ioi's site allows you to check a game at a certain week, but of course that's futzed data. Something in between the two could be fun, though a bit of a heavy data wrangling task to put together.

The specific source mentioned here aside, can you even conceivably disagree that the DQ remakes and main-series entry are a huge pull for the DS, and that their presence almost certainly has already contributed sales to the system?

They might have been and certainly will be in a bit, but the major Dragon Quest presence is more an effect of DS's great success than a cause. Of course one breeds the other eventually, but DQ didn't get the motor running unless we greatly magnify Rocket Slime's importance.

The DS had a disruptive element -- the introduction of non-games -- but otherwise it started out carrying over the GBA's success by default. Someone who was happy with the GBA and its third-party offerings could have purchased the DS under the assumption that they'd get more of the same, and they'd be right -- Castlevania, Gyakuten Saiban, FFTA, Rockman.exe -- these franchises all did indeed carry over to the DS.

If DS were just another GBA, though, we wouldn't expect its sales to be 8 million (or 66%) beyond where GBA was at the same time, so it's probably fair to credit that boost largely to what are the new elements unlike those found on GBA. If anything, a plain GBA successor with no "DS magic boost" might have been expected to underperform GBA, thanks to new competition from PSP.

You win. I finally give up.

Well... good luck. I don't know whether strawmen honor the Geneva Conventions.

PS2?

See recent Dragon Ball Z sales figures for reference.

PS2 is on the way down, Wii is on the way up. If you're starting a game now to be released in 2008 or 2009, it's probably not a good idea to count on PS2.

SO who wants to bet that Nintendo's next console will be a handheld with A/V output much like the PSP has? That way you can play at home, or on the go!

Though I don't know how the Wii-mote would work with that...

And backwards compatability would take a hit... >_>

No way. Ask me five years ago and I'd say sure, they're headed toward that. However, with DS and Wii they've finally differentiated in a big way. There are things you'll do on a touch screen that you couldn't do as well with the pointer, and you're not going to get the full motion experience with a handheld system.

 

[charlequin]

They might have been and certainly will be in a bit, but the major Dragon Quest presence is more an effect of DS's great success than a cause.

I don't disagree with the basic argument here -- DQ showed up because the DS was already selling well -- but this is just the snowball effect in motion. System sells well -> early games sell well -> more games -> system sells better -> later games sell better.

If the Wii fails on one level of that chain -- what we're positing here is the "early games sell well" part -- it's going to hurt the console's long-term growth.

If DS were just another GBA, though

Stop there. What I'm saying is that the DS had the benefit of the GBA's carryover library to start with, and then bolted the first-party non-game-driven success on top of that -- not that it's just another GBA. The Wii isn't getting any carryover success because the GCN was a huge flop, so it's bolting casual-game success onto... nothing. Thus my argument that Nintendo is building from a much lesser foundation for third-party success on Wii than they had to on DS.

 

[Lightning]

I can't wait to see if the Media Create numbers actually are close to these Famitsu numbers. :lol

 

[ccbfan]

No, you're repeating yourself because you are trying to set up a straw-man argument. The argument is wether or not Wii software sales are good enough to support a large base of developers generating product. People are asserting that it is not.

It isn't a question of being 1st. There isn't some magical prize awarded for being 1st that makes you profitable. Not a single person is saying that PS3/360 are bastions of good sales. All they are saying is that Wii software sales are currently insufficient to support the amount of games that where made for the SNES, PS1 and PS2. More importantly, what is being argued is that it appears as if a similar climate of profitability is not developing around the Wii.

He's thinking in a purely fanboy state of mind.

Wii is beating PS3 and 360 so it must be good. He doesn't care about the quality of gaming on the Wii, he's only focused on the fact that since Wii is beating the PS3 and 360, since Nintendo is winning the next gen console war then its good news for him. He doesn't think of other things such as games that normally on consoles are on handhelds now or that its causes third parties to stay on the PS2 as long as possible which only hurts the Wii gamers.

He's thinking in term of Nintendo wins so I am happy, instead of the consoles I own will have a large selection of games (which is really the true reason to ever be a fanboy). Its the truest sense of fanboyism. The good of the company is greater than the good of my gaming.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Stop there. What I'm saying is that the DS had the benefit of the GBA's carryover library to start with, and then bolted the first-party non-game-driven success on top of that -- not that it's just another GBA.

Yes yes. I'm using "another GBA" as a way to measure DS's additional success; that which isn't the crossover. That's the difference that took it from "NES/SNES/PS1/PS2/GBA-like success" to "biggest success ever".

I can't wait to see if the Media Create numbers actually are close to these Famitsu numbers.

That could be even worse. We don't have Media Create data going back as far as Famitsu data, so we have no basis for making an MC to MC comparison between SMS and SMG.

One thing I've really noticed today is that making comparisons to early November 2005 DS is a pain. Through Japan Game-Charts I can find first weeks and totals, but not what games had reached at an arbitrary date. Ioi's site allows you to check a game at a certain week, but of course that's futzed data. Something in between the two could be fun, though a bit of a heavy data wrangling task to put together.

So I've been thinking about this some more. It might not be THAT bad to try and process certain chunks of data at a time. Like, trying to get all of PS2 would be troublesome and probably with gaps, but starting off by getting all of PS3/Wii/X360 would be a reasonable starting task. Maybe a couple tables like

GameInfo:
*Japanese name
*English name
*Unique game ID
*Publisher
*Release Date
*System

SalesData:
*Unique game ID
*Tracker
*Week
*Weekly sales, if available
*Lifetime sales, if available
*Price
*Weekly ranking

would allow us to do most anything we'd want? Maybe even keep track of things like Famitsu's running guys if we wanted to get crazy?

 

[Stumpokapow]

GameInfo:
*Japanese name
*English name
*Unique game ID
*Publisher
*Release Date
*System

SalesData:
*Unique game ID
*Tracker
*Week
*Weekly sales, if available
*Lifetime sales, if available
*Price
*Weekly ranking

would allow us to do most anything we'd want? Maybe even keep track of things like Famitsu's running guys if we wanted to get crazy?

This is mostly fine but there are anomalies in the data that require slightly different treatments; for the vast majority of games, here's what data we have:
- Day 1
- Week 1-X
- At least one week where we have no data
- Some combination of weeks where we have data and weeks where we don't
- No further data until a compilation like halfyear or fullyear listings.

And it's not sufficient simply to interpolate the fullyear listings back into the weekly listings. They need to be kept distinct. So, essentially, I think you need a separate table for "adjusting entries" to sales. An adjusting entry consists of:
- Game ID
- Adjusting amount (whether in the form of "adjust +x" or "adjust to x"; even use a boolean column to distinguish between the two?)
- Date adjustment comes into effect
- Notes ("half-year", "full-year", "special case data release")

With this you'd be able to remove the static "lifetime sales" information and be able to compute it from the game sales and the adjusting sales entries.

I'd be happy to continue bouncing database ideas for this sort of stuff, so feel free to reply with any musings you might have on this.

 

[donny2112]

(You act like AC is a bad thing btw)

I was just sitting here having a revelation.

GCN (used) - $50
Animal Crossing (new) - $20
Action Replay for GameCube - $20 (?)

$90 gets you:
Clu-Clu Land
Clu-Clu Land D
Golf
Soccer
Super Mario Bros.
Legend of Zelda
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong, Jr.
Donkey Kong Math
Wario's Woods
Baseball
Ice Climbers
Punch-Out!
(and maybe a couple of others?)

That's at least $65, if you were to buy all of them on the Virtual Console.

Have I mentioned on this board that I love the GameCube Animal Crossing and feel the DS version is a lazy port whose inclusion of a useless online mode in no way makes up for removing real holidays, NES games, and GBA connectivity (e.g. Animal Island, eReader)? I fear for the Wii version.

 

[Lightning]

Now I am not trying to troll with this post, just throwing out my thoughts/ideas.

Even with the biggest Wii release of the year on a week where nothing notable was released for the PSP, the Wii still got outsold. Japan are making their intentions known that they prefer the handheld market. Now the PSP software sales, except for a few, are not great but I also don't believe that Sony have put their best effort into the handheld.

What I am suggesting is that Sony take a back seat with their PS3 love and focus a bit more on the PSP. FFXIII and Versus XIII are probably too far in to change now, as is GT5 but I do think that Sony/S-E/Konami etc... should get onto getting PSP versions of these games released as well. I can see gaming becoming more handheld centric as the years go on and I think Sony do need to jump on the bandwagon and support their system a little more.


I don't see how anyone can be happy or try and spin those Galaxy numbers as they are well below expectations and the hardware bump was next to nothing. As far as I am concerned Japan have made their intentions quite clear, it's up to developers to provide now if they want the best Japan sales.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

And it's not sufficient simply to interpolate the fullyear listings back into the weekly listings. They need to be kept distinct. So, essentially, I think you need a separate table for "adjusting entries" to sales. An adjusting entry consists of:
- Game ID
- Adjusting amount (whether in the form of "adjust +x" or "adjust to x"; even use a boolean column to distinguish between the two?)
- Date adjustment comes into effect
- Notes ("half-year", "full-year", "special case data release")

With this you'd be able to remove the static "lifetime sales" information and be able to compute it from the game sales and the adjusting sales entries.

The reason I'm thinking listing both is good is to accomplish basically the same stuff you're talking about, but with less hassle behind the scenes; even if it is a bit redundant. If we get a new total but it's in a "Top 100 first half of year" list or whatever, no need to include the regular weekly data, but grabbing lifetime sales from the entry would work just as any other week. To chart the changing total would be as simple as getting the date and LTD columns for a particular game, while with weeklies and adjustments the addition would have to be factored in.

It would also be better than the adjustment method for the "Top 100" type lists for both ease of use and possible new old data. Say a game drops off the charts in February at 288,729. We get a "Top 100" list at the end of the year and it's at 329,113. Using the adjustment method, for each entry we'd have to bother to find the difference: in this case, 40,384. What if at a later time we receive a "Top 100" for the middle of the year, though, where the game is at 322,094? Then the old adjustment data would be obsolete and need changing. If we're just inputting totals, though, all we'd need do is put the new middle value in the middle, and it works.

Day 1 data would be interesting to keep ahold of, but it doesn't have the same level of official as the weekly numbers we get, so I wouldn't store them in the same place.

Notes is a good one, though.

Another slightly icky thing would be cases where different trackers treat games differently. Like, Famitsu having a combined Diamond/Pearl number while Media Create treats them separately. In such cases they couldn't simply share a GameID... though I suppose things could be made even more meta and games could be put in groups, similarly to how with my hardware information it knows that DS and DS Lite are part of the same "hardware family".

That's at least $65, if you were to buy all of them on the Virtual Console.

Yeah, one of the old pro-Animal Crossing things I used to say to people who didn't seem interested was that it was like a retro compilation with an N64 game as skin.

 

[Tideas]

It doesn't matter how much love the PSP gets as long as there are ppl out there that's gonna hack the PSP and make those custom firmware.

The ppl who make those custom firmware are almost as bad as the people that writes viruses and spywares.

 

[schuelma]

I don't see how anyone can be happy or try and spin those Galaxy numbers as they are well below expectations and the hardware bump was next to nothing. As far as I am concerned Japan have made their intentions quite clear, it's up to developers to provide now if they want the best Japan sales.

I agree with you that Galaxy's sales are worrying, but I think we should wait until January is over and Wii Fit and Smash have arrived before we conclusively say that Japan has turned its back on the Wii; remember that for most of the year the Wii was handidly outselling the PSP and tracking above the PS2.

 

[Oblivion]

So it just occured to me that the actual numbers tend to be lower than what Sinobi/whoever originally posts. Makes the already ET-esque failure of Mario Galaxy even worse. D:

I'm guessing the real number will be 180k.

 

[Tideas]

is 250k really that bad people? Come on, it's a week's purchase. Let's just say, it holds to that for 4 weeks, which is a month.

That's a mil right there for a month. That's pretty good.

Unless all games that comes out in japan drop pretty fast after their initial week?

 

[Krowley]

Relative standards aren't super important here. All home consoles are performing badly in Japan re: software sales, and the conclusion people are drawing is that third parties might move more and more resources to portable titles and leave consoles behind.

This is a frightening possibility to me.

Japan needs to pick a console and start buying it more than the DS. At this point I don't even care which console they pick.

 

[Deku]

HOLY CRAP. Nintendo has the 67.1 % of all software. CRAZY. And who said that Nintendo needs Third Parties is better for him to change argument.

That still leaves the other 33% of software. In anycase its not like third parties do better on other platforms. Didn't Ethelred go through this already or did you miss the memo.

 

[gimz]

do we get new number tonight?

 

[tanod]

do we get new number tonight?

Nope. Media Create is a subsidiary of NPD.

 

[Tideas]

Nope. Media Create is a subsidiary of NPD.

are you serious?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

are you serious?

Incredibly serious. And stop calling him Shirley.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

And stop calling him Shirley.

I've never gotten this joke. What is "Shirley" a reference to?

 

[Tideas]

Incredibly serious. And stop calling him Shirley.

I never did....dot dot dot

 

[schuelma]

I've never gotten this joke. What is "Shirley" a reference to?

Shirley Temple, a well known child actor from the 1st half of the 20th century.

 

[Oblivion]

I've never gotten this joke. What is "Shirley" a reference to?

In the movie Airplane, Leslie Nielson tells this guy to fly a plane cause the pilot got knocked out or died or something. The guy then says "Surely, you can't be serious' or something to that effect.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Shirley Temple, a well known child actor from the 1st half of the 20th century.

That was my first thought... but I call shenanigans.

In the movie Airplane, Leslie Nielson tells this guy to fly a plane cause the pilot got knocked out or died or something. The guy then says "Surely, you can't be serious' or something to that effect.

Was the pilot's name Shirley or something?

Now I'm even more confused.

EDIT: I went over that line again imagining it read in an american accent. I get it now. I'm embarrassed :|

 

[perfectchaos007]

NPD isn't with Media Create. We should still get numbers.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So I decided to begin work on gathering the weekly PS3 and Wii Famitsu sales data. Only about a year to deal with and most rows of most weeks I can ignore since PS3 and Wii didn't have a giant presence. This way I can run into unconsidered issues, and here are some.

On some weeks, Famitsu combines two weeks of data into one. I see a few ways of working around this.

1) Treat it like I do on the hardware side; split it in half and give it to both weeks. Pro: Checking either week would give you the proper raking. Con: Neither week would actually be correct.
2) Put in weekly data for neither week, but just use the new total on the second week. Pro: No false data. Con: No ranking data.
3) Like #2, but the rank number is given for one or both weeks. Con: The ranking really isn't exact for either week. Pro: Would anyone really care?
4) Create a special way to mark multi-week segments and treat them differently. Perhaps even explicitly list a start date and end date, rather than merely one date for the beginning of the week? Pro: Accurate. Con: More trouble than it's worth?


Another: Listing price seemed an obvious thing since each tracker gives it... but sometimes there are multiple SKUs with different prices combined to one entry. That might be something to stick in a generic "Notes" section.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

That was my first thought... but I call shenanigans.

Was the pilot's name Shirley or something?

Now I'm even more confused.

EDIT: I went over that line again imagining it read in an american accent. I get it now. I'm embarrassed :|

OT:

its @ 2:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaXvFT_UyI8

 

[Jokeropia]

You haven't read that?

I know that it was said, I just didn't know when.

What's your definition of "so much"? It shipped a million. Didn't mean it sold a million. Barely made NPD of September, and hasn't it disappeared from Media Create top 20?

A game doesn't have to be in the top 10/20 whatever to sell over time, and the game has also been doing well in Europe. It's almost assuredly near 1 million sold through since Capcom never shipped that much initially and only sent out new shipments when retailers re-ordered it.

nintendo is truely clueless if they aren't aware of the massive and increasing backlash from the hardcore community wrt wii games. there was a lot of initial derision from these circles, of course, but there was quite a bit of excitement about the controller possibilities as well - so much of this has faded, and the wii-collecting-dust meme is spreading.

Uh, fanboys will always bitch and even moreso now that it turned out to be so successful. As the wii-is-a-fad meme becomes more and more delusional, they're moving to wii-collecting-dust instead.

It was a launch title, though. In general, a good game should perform better as a launch title than it does on a small post-launch base four to eight months out from launch.

TP was on GC as well. Only through online orders in Japan, yes, but it almost definitely had some impact and the Wii version didn't sell that much worse than Wind Waker to begin with.

SMG has a very good chance of outselling SMS lifetime.

 

[Manberg900]

I still don't know what the fuck Zack and Wiki is and apparently Japan doesn't either. Bottomline is that Ace Combat boosted the 360 sales more than Mario Galaxy did for Wii sales. 360 sales almost tripled while Wii sales stayed the same. Bottomline. It's surprising yes but it's an anomaly. It won't last. 360 sales will plummet once again and the Wii's sales will continue to level off.