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[Weisheit]

My position (one that I believe has grown more and more strongly supported by the evidence) is that Nintendo is indeed also in the position to need to. Letting the invisible hand of the market do the work is building a Wii install base that aren't interested in software.

Except Nintendo's.

 

[Lobster]

Mario Galaxy sold 250k? thats pretty good.

Did it?

 

[birdchili]

DS and Wii say "hi there", both are MEGA successes without third parties.

You people want Nintendo to win a game they are no longer playing.

wii is a staggering success given how long it's been on the market. still... suggesting that nintendo doesn't want wii to be the new ps2 (or bigger, of course) is naive, in spite of the constant talk of being in a different market.

making tons of money is desirable. making much more money than that is even more desirable.

 

[ethelred]

Really, Nintendogs, Brain Training, ACWW, NSMB ect. ect. ect.
All of the truly big games for DS have come from Nintendo, maybe SE (not third parties) has helped sustain the momentum.

Last time I checked Fami's most wanted games list, I saw four DQ games on it, including DQ9 maintaining its consistent #1 slot. Of course this has spurred hardcore gamer interest in the DS. Capcom's ability to churn out half-million sellers one after the other has played a role, too.

Look, while the top sellers are Nintendo games, they're not the only major factor behind the system's success, and it is simplistic reasoning that suggests otherwise. Why do you think it is that NSMB has sold so much better than other Mario games, or Zelda? Perhaps because the DS is appealing to a much broader set of demographics than prior Nintendo systems after the SNES? People drawn to the system by various third party games will buy Nintendo games as well.

The neat thing about success is it is symbiotic. If DQ9 sells 5 million as Famitsu is predicting, it will have benefitted from the DS overall success. But its success will buoy up many other games as well. The DS has achieved what it has by having a remarkably diverse and deep library -- Nintendo has not and cannot do that on its own. Nintendo can get things started but right now we're seeing with the Wii what happens when third parties aren't there to sustain things.

 

[Weisheit]

wii is a staggering success given how long it's been on the market. still... suggesting that nintendo doesn't want wii to be the new ps2 (or bigger, of course) is naive, in spite of the constant talk of being in a different market.

making tons of money is desirable. making much more money than that is even more desirable.

That audience stopped liking Nintendo back in the N64 days. Frankly I don't ever see them coming back.

Last time I checked Fami's most wanted games list, I saw four DQ games on it, including DQ9 maintaining its consistent #1 slot. Of course this has spurred hardcore gamer interest in the DS. Capcom's ability to churn out half-million sellers one after the other has played a role, too

No, just no.

Like I said, sure some third parties (SE especially) have helped maintain the DS success, but I don't believe they've played a major role in getting it to where it is now.

 

[Eteric Rice]

wii is a staggering success given how long it's been on the market. still... suggesting that nintendo doesn't want wii to be the new ps2 (or bigger, of course) is naive, in spite of the constant talk of being in a different market.

making tons of money is desirable. making much more money than that is even more desirable.

The DS is the new PS2.

Actually, it's going to pass the PS2 in Japan soon.

 

[Neo C.]

You people have been saying "Nintendo must get better third party support for their home consoles" for years. Guess what DS and Wii say "hi there", both are MEGA successes without third parties.

In the end, it would be like this: if the third parties jump in, Nintendo just need to push the Wii software-wise till end of 2008. If they don't, well, Nintendo need to push the Wii a year more with systemsellers.

In the case of DS, Nintendo has brought many systemsellers for two years, after then the third parties has hit the DS with really good games. I think there's a chance to see the same pattern with the Wii. Perhaps it need a few first party games more until it shows itself as a good plattform for third party as well, but I somehow doubt we won't see good third party support.

 

[birdchili]

That audience stopped liking Nintendo back in the N64 days. Frankly I don't ever see them coming back.

based on what? notwithstanding the japanese migration to handhelds (not irrelevant, yes), are you assuming that the massive goodwill that sony and microsoft have going for their new consoles is going to pull all of their predecessor's users to the obvious "successor"?

The DS is the new PS2.

yeah, that. i'm still in denial on that front. sigh.

 

[charlequin]

As evidenced by the tie ratio?

Somewhat as evidenced by the tie ratio once you subtract Wii Play, and (furthermore) the huge disparity between Wii Sports and all other software titles. More specifically, though, as evidenced by extrapolating current trends into the future: if most current owners bought the system for Wii Sports (and don't really want anything else), and then people who purchase it for Wii Fit act similarly....

And I know the Pope made a statement to the contrary and all, but I still don't think a 25% drop on Zelda is that bad considering the smaller userbase and being overshadowed by Wii Sports.

It was a launch title, though. In general, a good game should perform better as a launch title than it does on a small post-launch base four to eight months out from launch.

Except Nintendo's.

This whole conversation started on account of Nintendo's software dramatically underperforming expectations. I guess I could amend that to "games software," if you want.

 

[kottila]

If you for one second pretend that Nintendo isn't run by Japanese conservative 60 year olds who really have no idea about gamers and what they want, why can't Nintendo just put aside e.g 100mln dollars in a 3rd party pool where companys with good ideas for high profile gamers games can get support for both big ad campaigns and for development?

I'm sure they'll make the money back in the long run...or they can start bundling a "hardcore" game of our choice with the console as well, even a 3rd party game like Z&W, NMH or RE:UC. All in the name of customer education

 

[Weisheit]

based on what? notwithstanding the japanese migration to handhelds (not irrelevant, yes), are you assuming that the massive goodwill that sony and microsoft have going for their new consoles is going to pull all of their predecessor's users to the obvious "successor"?


yeah, that. i'm still in denial on that front. sigh.

It seems you've answered your own question.

 

[ethelred]

That audience stopped liking Nintendo back in the N64 days. Frankly I don't ever see them coming back.

No, just no.

Like I said, sure some third parties (SE especially) have helped maintain the DS success, but I don't believe they've played a major role in getting to where it is now.

Wow. "No, I don't believe you." What a thorough and comprehensive response to my post.

 

[Weisheit]

This whole conversation started on account of Nintendo's software dramatically underperforming expectations. I guess I could amend that to "games software," if you want.

I know this is a Japanese thread. Japan, however does not exist in a vacuum, your statement earlier about Nintendo's core games selling worse than their predecessors on GC holds no water worldwide, where the exact opposite is true.

 

[Weisheit]

Last time I checked Fami's most wanted games list, I saw four DQ games on it, including DQ9 maintaining its consistent #1 slot.

Last time I checked Fami's most wanted games list, I saw four DQ games on it

Last time I checked Fami's most wanted games list

Fami's most wanted games list

Yeah, your insight was so wise.

 

[charlequin]

That audience stopped liking Nintendo back in the N64 days. Frankly I don't ever see them coming back.

That's ridiculous. The thing that makes the difference is the games. "Oh, well, they just hate poor little Nintendo, they'll never come back" is no different from "We're Sony, no one will ever topple us!" If Nintendo fails to attract back core gamers this generation, it's because they allowed it to become a self-fufilling prophecy, not because it was some impossible goal that could never have been achieved.

No, just no.

The specific source mentioned here aside, can you even conceivably disagree that the DQ remakes and main-series entry are a huge pull for the DS, and that their presence almost certainly has already contributed sales to the system?

Like I said, sure some third parties (SE especially) have helped maintain the DS success, but I don't believe they've played a major role in getting to where it is now.

You don't think an expectation of third-party support equivalent to the GBA had anything to do with the DS staying ahead of the PSP pre-Nintendogs, or that software like Layton and FF3 got anyone to buy a DS?

It's like ethelred said -- success is symbiotic. Both Nintendo's own titles and third-party titles are better off today than either would be on a system without the other.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

It seems you've answered your own question.

If WiiFit doesn't spur the Wii in any huge way, the console market is dead in Japan. We're sitting at an entire market of 5.2 million units. The entire next-gen market there is less then half that of America's. About two years in. And now none of the consoles are really setting the charts on fire.

The Wii jumped out to the top quckly but has all but died in the past two months. A dead that still averages 2:1 over their largest competitor, but a far cry from the 6:1 and 7:1 of the year. While the handheld market continues to boom.

And by boom we're talking Sony actually gaining relevance.

Sadly consoles are dead. The new kings are definitely the handhelds.

 

[birdchili]

That's ridiculous. The thing that makes the difference is the games. "Oh, well, they just hate poor little Nintendo, they'll never come back" is no different from "We're Sony, no one will ever topple us!" If Nintendo fails to attract back core gamers this generation, it's because they allowed it to become a self-fufilling prophecy, not because it was some impossible goal that could never have been achieved.

truth, that. there's never been a more gaping opening for a new contender, and watching the hd system sales play out, nintendo seems decently well-positioned to capitalize. the wii software situation is nowhere near where it needs to be to get some real traction, as mentioned numerous times here.

 

[Weisheit]

That's ridiculous. The thing that makes the difference is the games. "Oh, well, they just hate poor little Nintendo, they'll never come back" is no different from "We're Sony, no one will ever topple us!" If Nintendo fails to attract back core gamers this generation, it's because they allowed it to become a self-fufilling prophecy, not because it was some impossible goal that could never have been achieved.

Fighting for the gamers your talking cost lots of money, it has nothing to do with "poor little Nintendo", they simply don't want to continue down that road.

The specific source mentioned here aside, can you even conceivably disagree that the DQ remakes and main-series entry are a huge pull for the DS, and that their presence almost certainly has already contributed sales to the system?

Revisionist history ftw. The DS was well on it's way towards the PS2 before the DQ9 announcement.

You don't think an expectation of third-party support equivalent to the GBA had anything to do with the DS staying ahead of the PSP pre-Nintendogs, or that software like Layton and FF3 got anyone to buy a DS?

Nope.

 

[ethelred]

Yeah, your insight was so wise.

So then no, you can't muster any sort of argument about the points I made. Good to know.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Maybe SMG will have legs and will end up selling well, but the fact that Nfans are having to spin a big budget main Super Mario game is blowing my mind. This really shouldn't have debuted this low.

 

[Grecco]

Ok, so we can't count Zack and Wiki. And we can't count RE:UC if that bombs...what is our next legitimate measure of 3rd parties success on Wii?

Monster Hunter 3. The First legitimate main franchise game on the Wii.

Spinoffs and tech demos dont count.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Revisionist history ftw. The DS was well on it's way towards the PS2 before the DQ9 announcement.

Nope.

Not to mention it was selling out so fast that new releases or announcements couldn't have much effect on sales.

 

[Weisheit]

So then no, you can't muster any sort of argument about the points I made. Good to know.

This time read the whole post.

Like I said, sure some third parties (SE especially) have helped maintain the DS success, but I don't believe they've played a major role in getting it to where it is now.

 

[plagiarize]

i just want to stress that this DOESN'T in anyway negate the DS comparison. as noted time and again, this is inline with the sales of DS software at this point. i love how people are saying that since a game sold LESS than it did on gamecube, that despite those numbers being inline with DS software sales, that because of how this particular games first week figures don't to compare to the gamecube game in the same franchise, that the Wii doesn't compare to the DS anymore.

uh? because the Wii sales that compare well with DS sales don't compare with the sales on the traditional not blue ocean strategy GameCube, that Wii and DS don't compare?

WUH?

 

[Vic]

This time read the whole post.

Like I said, sure some third parties (SE especially) have helped maintain the DS success, but I don't believe they've played a major role in getting it to where it is now.

How selling around the half of all the DS software sales is not a major contribution?

 

[charlequin]

Nope.

Alright. Now that we've established that you think that literally no person in Japan bought a DS for Layton or FF3, and that every single sale pre-Nintendogs was made solely to play first-party software, I think I can let my argument speak for itself.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

i just want to stress that this DOESN'T in anyway negate the DS comparison. as noted time and again, this is inline with the sales of DS software at this point. i love how people are saying that since a game sold LESS than it did on gamecube, that despite those numbers being inline with DS software sales, that because of how this particular games first week figures don't to compare to the gamecube game in the same franchise, that the Wii doesn't compare to the DS anymore.

uh? because the Wii sales that compare well with DS sales don't compare with the sales on the traditional not blue ocean strategy GameCube, that Wii and DS don't compare?

WUH?

I think it's best not to try to bring the DS into this, lest we make the unfortunate comparison of Mario to Mario.

 

[plagiarize]

I think it's best not to try to bring the DS into this, lest we make the unfortunate comparison of Mario to Mario.

that comparison doesn't scare me.

how long did it take for the DS to have a great selling traditional core game? was it for lack of traditional core games being released?

Mario Galaxy hasn't sold great in it's first week... would NSMB have sold great released in the same time frame? that's really the question... and i think it's debatable that it would have sold as well.

i'm not saying the Wii is charting the same exact course as the DS, i'm just saying that before we write the *system* off, we should wait a while longer.

 

[Weisheit]

Alright. Now that we've established that you think that literally no person in Japan bought a DS for Layton or FF3, and that every single sale pre-Nintendogs was made solely to play first-party software, I think I can let my argument speak for itself.

You don't think an expectation of third-party support equivalent to the GBA had anything to do with the DS staying ahead of the PSP pre-Nintendogs, or that software like Layton and FF3 got anyone to buy a DS?

I didn't say "literally no person in Japan bought a DS for Layton or FF3", I don't think a significant number of people bought it for those and other third party games, relative to the DS's userbase.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

Last time I checked Fami's most wanted games list, I saw four DQ games on it, including DQ9 maintaining its consistent #1 slot. Of course this has spurred hardcore gamer interest in the DS. Capcom's ability to churn out half-million sellers one after the other has played a role, too.
.

Famitsu's Most wanted doesn't mean anything, you know.

 

[Olaeh]

The DS got to where it is largely thanks to first party efforts, anyone who argues 3rd parties did this is wrong (FF3? Layton? those helped, but they aren't responsible for the DS' monster userbase). Now that the DS is established 3rd parties carry it along further, but they wouldn't have put in the efforts if Nintendo didn't bring the userbase up to the level they did. I don't think we would be seeing DQIX on the DS if Brain Training, Animal Crossing, and Nintendogs didn't happen.

I didn't say "literally no person in Japan bought a DS for Layton or FF3", I don't think a significant number of people bought it for those and other third party games, relative to the DS's userbase.

This is truth.

 

[Evlar]

The neat thing about success is it is symbiotic. If DQ9 sells 5 million as Famitsu is predicting, it will have benefitted from the DS overall success. But its success will buoy up many other games as well. The DS has achieved what it has by having a remarkably diverse and deep library -- Nintendo has not and cannot do that on its own. Nintendo can get things started but right now we're seeing with the Wii what happens when third parties aren't there to sustain things.

I agree with this. Well said.

 

[Weisheit]

The DS got to where it is largely thanks to first party efforts, anyone who argues 3rd parties did this is wrong (FF3? Layton? those helped, but they aren't responsible for the DS' monster userbase). Now that the DS is established 3rd parties carry it along further, but they wouldn't have put in the efforts if Nintendo didn't bring the userbase up to the level they did. I don't think we would be seeing DQIX on the DS if Brain Training, Animal Crossing, and Nintendogs didn't happen.


This is truth.

Yup, DQ9 wouldn't have happened without the huge userbase to begin with.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

If WiiFit doesn't spur the Wii in any huge way, the console market is dead in Japan. We're sitting at an entire market of 5.2 million units. The entire next-gen market there is less then half that of America's. About two years in. And now none of the consoles are really setting the charts on fire.

The Wii jumped out to the top quckly but has all but died in the past two months. A dead that still averages 2:1 over their largest competitor, but a far cry from the 6:1 and 7:1 of the year. While the handheld market continues to boom.

And by boom we're talking Sony actually gaining relevance.

Sadly consoles are dead. The new kings are definitely the handhelds.

An interesting topic is try to explain why Wii's sales dropped so fast and without an apparent reason. I know I already tried to discuss this some time ago, but it should be discussed again because:

1) All started with the loss of momentum. Because before Mario Party 8 the software that was not shit was selling well: Wii Sports, DQ:S, Wii Play, Mario Party 8, Super Paper Mario (and remember that Super Paper Mario sold better the Paper Mario RPG. Don't you think it is a little bit weird that now Super Mario Galaxy is underperforming ? Paper Mario was very hardcore either, but sold quite well). Fire Emblem and Twilight Princess underperfomed, but nobody seems to be worried about after the initial surprise.

2) With the hardware declining, every single game that came out sold bad. Many games really bad and in some cases, even worse the what we would have expected on X360 (Japan !). Super Mario Galaxy is underperforming, but it is not selling like crap.
In other words, the situation was not as good as on DS software-wise, but all started to decline rapidly some weeks ago.

This was a turning point in my opinion. But why this moment ? Why so fast ? And why now the software seems to have difficults to sell as good as before ? There questions are still unanswered.

 

[charlequin]

Famitsu's Most wanted doesn't mean anything, you know.

As I mentioned above, there's no real reason to point that out in this particular case unless you actually want to argue that DQ isn't going to drive any hardware sales.

I didn't say "literally no person in Japan bought a DS for Layton or FF3", I don't think a significant number of people bought it for those and other third party games, relative to the DS's userbase.

Do you have any specific support for this position? Note that it's kind of an extraordinary position, given that (a) the GBA was a very successful platform for third parties, with quite a few franchises (rockman.exe, Castlevania, Gyakuten Saiban, etc.); (b) historically, consoles have always been driven by the totality of their software, first and third party, not by a few individual titles; and (c) the Wii is showing evidence of core-gamer software weakness that the DS never showed, despite "non-game"/casual-gamer software performing at DS-like levels.

This was a turning point in my opinion. But why this moment ? Why so fast ? And why now the software seems to have difficults to sell as good as before ? There questions are still unanswered.

Wii Sports is an incredible, system-moving killer app that's reached saturation point without another killer app or a sufficient volume of diverse software waiting in the wings to pick up the slack.

 

[ethelred]

Famitsu's Most wanted doesn't mean anything, you know.

Yes, it means some things. It isn't a statistically reliable poll (due to self selection bias), but it's a decent enough gauge of what has piqued the interest of the hardcore gamers. These are people that tend to buy plenty of software so they're good to have interested in your machine. In this case, their presence there (and that of Layton, FF4, etc.) tells us something we already know: Japan is hyped for these games and they're going to be very popular. Again, the DS has reached the pinnacles of success by appealing to gamers in Japan across the board, and stuff like this is a key element of that.

 

[Weisheit]

Do you have any specific support for this position? Note that it's kind of an extraordinary position, given that (a) the GBA was a very successful platform for third parties, with quite a few franchises (rockman.exe, Castlevania, Gyakuten Saiban, etc.); (b) historically, consoles have always been driven by the totality of their software, first and third party, not by a few individual titles; and (c) the Wii is showing evidence of core-gamer software weakness that the DS never showed, despite "non-game"/casual-gamer software performing at DS-like levels.

Perhaps you should remember that the DS's success is above and beyond any hand held ever.
I'm not saying third parties have had no impact just not a significant one.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

Yes, it means some things. It isn't a statistically reliable poll (due to self selection bias), but it's a decent enough gauge of what has piqued the interest of the hardcore gamers. These are people that tend to buy plenty of software so they're good to have interested in your machine. In this case, their presence there (and that of Layton, FF4, etc.) tells us something we already know: Japan is hyped for these games and they're going to be very popular. Again, the DS has reached the pinnacles of success by appealing to gamers in Japan across the board, and stuff like this is a key element of that.

Mother 3 disagree with you. Always at the first place and then only 300k. Pokémon Diamond and Pearl was always out of the top 10, but it sold more then 5 millions. Many 360 games are in this top, but they sell like shit in comparison to what is in the same top. Mayn PS3 games are in this top, but how much they will sell ?
And these are only examples. Believe me: this top is only indicative, but even for indications, often it fails badly. It is not reliable, if not for Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games.

 

[Olaeh]

As I mentioned above, there's no real reason to point that out in this particular case unless you actually want to argue that DQ isn't going to drive any hardware sales.

He's not arguing that. He's simply saying its never a good idea to base Famitsu's Most Wanted on how something will sell.

the GBA was a very successful platform for third parties, with quite a few franchises (rockman.exe, Castlevania, Gyakuten Saiban, etc.)

The GBA's success shouldn't be such a factor. I am reminded of the PS2's success and the position of the PS3 now.

 

[Neomoto]

I agree that the DS has been forming the massive succes it is now largely thanks to Nintendo and Nintendo alone. Seriously, every aspect (not just the games/system sellers) came from Nintendo. 3rd party's where seriously jumping on starting the end of 2006/beginning 2007 when a lot of good titles started hitting the shelves (and I mean Japanese third party's, cause western devs are to this day almost no where to be found sadly). 3rd party's are sustaining DS incredible succes, they have not caused it. Even Square Enix, whose impact is far beyond every other third party only "recently" announced the three Dragon Quest remakes and a while before that DQ IX -- the most important 3rd party titles the DS has by far --, obviously when the DS was already doing seriously crazy numbers every fucking week. Just saying, Nintendo sure handled the DS brilliantly and they should be getting props for that. Now it's 3rd party's time to shine though, and they seem eager to do just that.


I searched in the last couple of pages but is the Galaxy 250k number confirmed? Not very good imo, even though it's not much lower than Sunshine's and will most likely have very good legs. How was the marketing for the title in Japan?

 

[Eteric Rice]

So basically the Wii needs more S-E games?

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

I agree that the DS has been forming the massive succes it is now largely thanks to Nintendo and Nintendo alone. Seriously, every aspect (not just the games/system sellers) came from Nintendo. 3rd party's where seriously jumping on starting the end of 2006/beginning 2007 when a lot of good titles started hitting the shelves (and I mean Japanese third party's, cause western devs are to this day almost no where to be found sadly). 3rd party's are sustaining DS incredible succes, they have not caused it. Even Square Enix, whose impact is far beyond every other third party only "recently" announced the three Dragon Quest remakes and a while before that DQ IX -- the most important 3rd party titles the DS has by far --, obviously when the DS was already doing seriously crazy numbers every fucking week. Just saying, Nintendo sure handled the DS brilliantly and they should be getting props for that. Now it's 3rd party's time to shine though, and they seem eager to do just that.


I searched in the last couple of pages but is the Galaxy 250k number confirmed? Not very good imo, even though it's not much lower than Sunshine's and will most likely have very good legs. How was the marketing for the title in Japan?

This is the right answer to the discussion. Very true.

 

[CrisKre]

I think Wii games selling in line with GC's best is very logical at this point. A year after its release Wii has just reached GC's ltd in Japan, so its not too out of line that similar franchises are selling what its predecessors where doing. A year from now things will look different. And about Mario Galaxy's performance, hopefully it willend up selling over a million. My line of thought for this is that it is one of those games that are "hard to resist". Once someone sees it being played or plays it they need to have it. its that much fun...

 

[Innotech]

the Wii needs RPGs. thats your answer to why it isnt selling.

 

[Evlar]

I agree that the DS has been forming the massive succes it is now largely thanks to Nintendo and Nintendo alone. Seriously, every aspect (not just the games/system sellers) came from Nintendo. 3rd party's where seriously jumping on starting the end of 2006/beginning 2007 when a lot of good titles started hitting the shelves (and I mean Japanese third party's, cause western devs are to this day almost no where to be found sadly). 3rd party's are sustaining DS incredible succes, they have not caused it. Even Square Enix, whose impact is far beyond every other third party only "recently" announced the three Dragon Quest remakes and a while before that DQ IX -- the most important 3rd party titles the DS has by far --, obviously when the DS was already doing seriously crazy numbers every fucking week. Just saying, Nintendo sure handled the DS brilliantly and they should be getting props for that. Now it's 3rd party's time to shine though, and they seem eager to do just that.


I searched in the last couple of pages but is the Galaxy 250k number confirmed? Not very good imo, even though it's not much lower than Sunshine's and will most likely have very good legs. How was the marketing for the title in Japan?

I believe the second best launch of the DS's first 12 months was Jump Super Stars, a "core oriented" title if there ever was one. And while that game was published by Nintendo it was developed by a third party and contains all non-Nintendo IP, similar to something like FFTA. I maintain that while Nintendo was powerful in the early DS lineup (as they always are) they weren't alone in driving sales.

It's kinda ridiculous to expect them to be, honestly. GBA was not a Nintendo-only machine and I doubt the knowledgable "hardcore" consumer expected the DS to be unlike its predecessor. That was considered Sony FUD three years ago, it's a little surprising to hear it repeated as a pro-Nintendo talking point now.

 

[Neo C.]

This was a turning point in my opinion. But why this moment ? Why so fast ? And why now the software seems to have difficults to sell as good as before ? There questions are still unanswered.

Except Wii Sports, there aren't any longtime systemsellers. Why this moment? It's a wild guess, but I think Wii Sports just can't carry the Wii any longer without the help of other systemsellers.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I'm gonna let you guys on a little secret: the reason why consoles are no longer "it" in Japan, is because now the portables are sophisticated "enough" ("enough" being a relative term) to handle traditional console games without a problem.

Of course this point will be lost on those who consider hardware horsepower the driving force of the industry.

 

[Weisheit]

I believe the second best launch of the DS's first 12 months was Jump Super Stars, a "core oriented" title if there ever was one. And while that game was published by Nintendo it was developed by a third party and contains all non-Nintendo IP, similar to something like FFTA. I maintain that while Nintendo was powerful in the early DS lineup (as they always are) they weren't alone in driving sales.

It's kinda ridiculous to expect them to be, honestly. GBA was not a Nintendo-only machine and I doubt the knowledgable "hardcore" consumer expected the DS to be unlike its predecessor. That was considered Sony FUD three years ago, it's a little surprising to hear it repeated as a pro-Nintendo talking point now.

I'm not arguing that. If those games hadn't been there do you think the DS would be sitting with a userbase substantially less than it has now?

 

[Kafel]

I'm gonna let you guys on a little secret: the reason why consoles are no longer "it" in Japan, is because now the portables are sophisticated "enough" ("enough" being a relative term) to handle traditional console games without a problem.

Of course this point will be lost on those who consider hardware horsepower the driving force of the industry.

Thank you.

 

[iidesuyo]

I'm gonna let you guys on a little secret: the reason why consoles are no longer "it" in Japan, is because now the portables are sophisticated "enough" ("enough" being a relative term) to handle traditional console games without a problem.

You mean like home consoles nearly killed arcade gaming because at some point they could display Model 3 like graphics? Sounds reasonable.