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[Oblivion]

The funny thing about the argument about Wii owners not buying enough third party games is that, judging by the current library, if those third party games DID sell, you'd have the same people bitching about how Wii owners love buying shovelware and mini game compilations, and thus killing the industry, etc.

 

[Vic]

So people are agreeing that DS is the new PS2 because of pure sales? That makes no sense, by that logic the Game Boy Classic would have been the new NES in the early 90s since it sold better than the SNES (and had a very diverse SW library).

The difference is that both the PSP and DS are hosting games that should could have been on the main home consoles.

 

[Deku]

The funny thing about the argument about Wii owners not buying enough third party games is that, judging by the current library, if those third party games DID sell, you'd have the same people bitching about how Wii owners love buying shovelware and mini game compilations, and thus killing the industry, etc.

Before RE4 Wii came out, I asked rhetorically what the implications were if it sold well.
Now that it did very well for Capcom financially, everyone who has a counterpoint to the Wii's success is avoiding it like the plague.

Monster Hunter 3 happened because Capcom saw what a well made game can do on the Wii. It's not a guarantee a game will sell well, there is always a risk to everything, especially in the games business, but the hypothesis that gamers of a particular platform don't want to buy 3rd party titles is pretty much a fairytale people like to tell themselves.

 

[charlequin]

But the Wii doing the numbers that it did (and probably will after WiiFit) is all because of expanding into the non gamers area. The DS did 150k a week because all kinds of people bought the system and on top of that a huge number of non gamers as well, this in turn attracted more third party software. The same thing is happening to the Wii, start with some casual content and some hardcore content and expand both ways (pull and push).

The same thing is not happening with Wii; instead of sales rising to heaven, they're dropping, and core games are underperforming. That's the whole issue. If the same thing is going to happen, it needs to actually be reflected in console and software sales.

They've been publishing as many core games on Wii as they did on GCN.

Well, that's really part of the problem: "as they did on GCN" isn't really good enough.

In sales, yes, but it doesn't cover nearly as many genres, and doesn't do many of them well at all. One would not buy a DS for great fighting games, sports games, racing games (or sims), survival horror games, action games, etc.

Totally irrelevant. The PS2 didn't have a lot of 2d platformers, puzzle games, or, I dunno, cart racers either. Part of the result of the DS picking up PS2's mantle is that those genres you list are (relatively) hurt in the Japanese marketplace, while the DS' most prominent genres are relatively helped.

 

[Concept17]

QFT

3rd party devs. on Wii think they can put together random crap and expect it to sell. They got to get rid of that mindset asap

I think its because even Nintendo has gotten away with selling very mediocre games in very large quantities. Wii sports for instance is a very very shallow game, yet is still the best game in terms of utilizing the controller. I imagine many devs are trying to get away with the same.

EDIT: Also, they probly think, "well we can try and make a unique game with the potential to sell tons on the Wii, or we can make a very deep, epic game with the potential to sell tons on the 360/ps3." Its almost as if they reserve the 'bigger' games for the 360/ps3, and leave the 'other stuff' to the Wii.

 

[The Innocent X]

I think its because even Nintendo has gotten away with selling very mediocre games in very large quantities. Wii sports for instance is a very very shallow game, yet is still the best game in terms of utilizing the controller. I imagine many devs are trying to get away with the same.

Run now, whilst you can. This is media create.

What have you done

Oh God

Won't someone think of the children!

 

[Deku]

The same thing is not happening with Wii; instead of sales rising to heaven, they're dropping, and core games are underperforming. That's the whole issue. If the same thing is going to happen, it needs to actually be reflected in console and software sales.



Well, that's really part of the problem: "as they did on GCN" isn't really good enough.



Totally irrelevant. The PS2 didn't have a lot of 2d platformers, puzzle games, or, I dunno, cart racers either. Part of the result of the DS picking up PS2's mantle is that those genres you list are (relatively) hurt in the Japanese marketplace, while the DS' most prominent genres are relatively helped.

Nintendo's had a free pass for 12 months on the Wii. They launched with a GameCube port, and a bunch of party games.

The saving grace so far is the VC for the more hardcore/lapsed crowd. I hope they put those 12 months to good use to get a headstart on multiple projects. I doubt even lapsed console gamers can tolerate the dearth of quality games (not hardcore, not casual, just games) on the Wii coming from Nintendo.

With the DS, Nintendo supported it with some pretty amazing stuff for 24 months. It didn't start well but there was a 16 month window in the first 2 years when they had something big coming down the pipeline every couple of months. They don't have that for the Wii until very recently and we have no guarantee they will continue the push in 2008.

It's a big concern.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Before RE4 Wii came out, I asked rhetorically what the implications were if it didn't bomb. Now that it did very well for Capcom financially, everyone who has a counterpoint to the Wii's success is avoiding it like the plague.

Monster Hunter 3 wasn't moneyhatted, it was probably directly because Capcom saw what a well made game can do on the Wii. It's not a guarantee a game will sell well, there is always a risk to everything, especially in the games business, but the hypothesis that gamers of a particular platform don't want to buy 3rd party titles is pretty much a fairytale people like to tell themselves.

But just like all stigma's unless you get some smarties in there, to cut through the crap, you end up with a bunch of people that believe it.

The Wii will probably always be called the minigame console because that stuck early on. The PS3 will always be viewed as "too expensive" as long as it has any price difference over either other console. Just as the Xbox is called the Halobox to this day.

I've always respected Capcom. They make great games, seemingly always. Sure they've got their filler series in MegaMan, whored out to any idea they have.

A few missteps along the way. A few platforms they shouldn't have supported quite as heavily.

I forgot where I was going...

 

[Oblivion]

Before RE4 Wii came out, I asked rhetorically what the implications were if it sold well.
Now that it did very well for Capcom financially, everyone who has a counterpoint to the Wii's success is avoiding it like the plague.

Monster Hunter 3 happened because Capcom saw what a well made game can do on the Wii. It's not a guarantee a game will sell well, there is always a risk to everything, especially in the games business, but the hypothesis that gamers of a particular platform don't want to buy 3rd party titles is pretty much a fairytale people like to tell themselves.

Well, I have heard a few trying to say that it's only cause there was nothing else on it, but yeah not as much as before.

Wonder what the current state of mind is for the detractors who think Nintendo fans only buy Nintendo games with Galaxy's current sales.

 

[Concept17]

Run now, whilst you can. This is media create.

What have you done

Oh God

Won't someone think of the children!

lol I know, but to say every Nintendo franchise is "omguberawesome" is just silly

 

[RobertM]

lol I know, but to say every Nintendo franchise is "omguberawesome" is just silly

Everything made Nintendo has a touch of God.

 

[C.T.]

lol I know, but to say every Nintendo franchise is "omguberawesome" is just silly

the other way around is silly as well.

 

[Nolan.]

I think it's a big expectation to think the wii will be like the ds. Personally I think the wii might be verging on loosing it's momentum. The thing with the ds is that it has become a bit of a snob gadget and with it ''cool''. I don't see the wii being like that unless that is they do some new kind of wii.

 

[ksamedi]

The same thing is not happening with Wii; instead of sales rising to heaven, they're dropping, and core games are underperforming. That's the whole issue. If the same thing is going to happen, it needs to actually be reflected in console and software sales.

Yes that is true but that was also sort of my point, the core market is getting smaller and smaller in Japan, or lets call this the traditional market. Without the DS or Wii the Japanese market was in decline. The Wii selling such low numbers is because it has far too few titles like WiiFit and Wiisports. Those kind of titles is going to get people into gaming again and grow the market or help bored people get into gaming again.

 

[Innotech]

lol I know, but to say every Nintendo franchise is "omguberawesome" is just silly

Well, consider that Nintendos main games so far have been pretty damned good. Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy, and Smash bros of course. Prettyo much "omg uberawesome" games there.

 

[charlequin]

I think that's absurd as well. The DS is not the new PS2, it's the new GBA.

No way. The GBA was never more than a supplemental system, and never had the support to aim at being anything else. Even Nintendo's support was pretty minor -- no real Marios, no in-house Zelda, etc. The DS already has a library of 100% balls-out good games that gives lots of past consoles a run for their money, and more coming in all those genres -- it also has first-party support that's arguably better than either of Nintendo's last consoles (since all the big series -- AC, Mario, Zelda, MK, etc. have been hit up, plus several others like AW that don't even appear on consoles.)

"The next PS2" is a loaded phrase because it can mean a lot of different things, but in the meaning of the default platform, the one you can assume every gamer owns and which the majorest of the major titles can most easily get the greatest market penetration on, it's far and away the leader out of currently supported systems -- something that was not true of GBA vs. PS2. The fact that DQ9 there is really the most solid proof imaginable.

Simply put we can all hope their won't be a PS2 this gen.

We can? Someone could buy a PS2 and play 90+% of all the great games released last generation. That seems like a consumer "win" to me.

I think third parties are having a hard time on all 3 platforms if recent financials mean anything.

I agree with this, and also that the lower Wii dev costs could mean that third parties could live effectively off of only 1 out of X games "succeeding" as they did last gen, but... they do need to actually publish games that have any chance of succeeding before that happens... and they need to get people who will buy them on board with the console as well.

The funny thing about the argument about Wii owners not buying enough third party games is that, judging by the current library, if those third party games DID sell, you'd have the same people bitching about how Wii owners love buying shovelware and mini game compilations, and thus killing the industry, etc.

Like I've said before, it's a lose/lose choice. When third parties put out shitty cashgrab titles, there's no good choice: if they sell we get more ports/shitty games, if they don't sell we get no more third-party support. The third parties need to be blamed for half-assing their support, and Nintendo needs to be blamed for not bothering to create an environment where third parties use their whole ass; once the bad games are getting released it's already too late to fix the situation.

Yes that is true but that was also sort of my point, the core market is getting smaller and smaller in Japan, or lets call this the traditional market.

The market for core games as a whole is not that much (if any) smaller than it was before; the issue is that games which are increasingly hardcore played to an increasingly small audience. The DS' success illustrates that the market of people who want to play things that are unabashedly, inarguably games -- titles like NSMB and FF3 -- isn't smaller, it just wants games that are more approachable (but which can still be quite challenging -- see FF3 again). The Wii could be tapping this market, but isn't; that's exactly the failure we're talking about here.

 

[ethelred]

Saying that the DS is just the new GBA is kinda a ludicrous remark, actually.

 

[Tristam]

I think its because even Nintendo has gotten away with selling very mediocre games in very large quantities. Wii sports for instance is a very very shallow game, yet is still the best game in terms of utilizing the controller. I imagine many devs are trying to get away with the same.

EDIT: Also, they probly think, "well we can try and make a unique game with the potential to sell tons on the Wii, or we can make a very deep, epic game with the potential to sell tons on the 360/ps3." Its almost as if they reserve the 'bigger' games for the 360/ps3, and leave the 'other stuff' to the Wii.

No, it isn't. Metroid Prime 3 is by far the best showcase for the controls.

Anyways, the ongoing debate here is pretty interesting. charlequin's post is spot on.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Well, that's really part of the problem: "as they did on GCN" isn't really good enough.

Whether it's good enough or not, it seems silly to blame an apparently different third party perception on a situation that far precedes this new perception. If I said more games were being released for Wii than GameCube because it's a disc-based system, that would be silly too.

 

[Eteric Rice]

No, it isn't. Metroid Prime 3 is by far the best showcase for the controls.

Anyways, the ongoing debate here is pretty interesting. charlequin's post is spot on.

Also, Zack & Wiki.

 

[charlequin]

Whether it's good enough or not, it seems silly to blame an apparently different third party perception on a situation that far precedes this new perception.

I'm not saying it's a different third party perception. I'm saying that the Wii carried over the GCN's "no third parties" BO and therefore hardware sales alone aren't enough to improve the situation; Nintendo needs to change their approach.

 

[PantherLotus]

Somebody please (JJ? Ethel? donny?) describe the first year of DS, its games relative to its sales (what were the big games?), and the moment that it started changing. The Wii IS following the DS model for success, and I think we can prove it.

I also think that a lot of people are making the same exact mistake in their description of where the market stands today (in regards to the Wii in Japan) as they did with the DS v. PSP in their respective first years.


It's a pretty easy correlation to make.

 

[charlequin]

Somebody please (JJ? Ethel? donny?) describe the first year of DS, its games relative to its sales (what were the big games?), and the moment that it started changing. The Wii IS following the DS model for success, and I think we can prove it.

I think ethelred's on my side here, dude.

I would agree with you, by the way, if my position was that the Wii itself were going to fail here. I don't think that; absent absolutely crazy shit happening, the Wii is the market leader for Japan and Tabris' wildest comeback dreams will never come true.

My position is solely with regard to the Wii as a home for core game titles. It hasn't done almost anything to differentiate itself from the GCN yet. The only argument seems to be "well, the market leader always gets all the third-party support" -- but that's ignoring the fact that the market is weird enough this time around, and enough seemingly viable alternate approaches (Capcom's "dev on 360 for the western market" plan, S-E's "support the fuck out of the DS" plan, Konami's "have you heard the gospel of Kojima?" plan) exist, and Wii third-party sales are seemingly poor enough, that third parties are facing a "which bad choice do you take" decision here, not a cut-and-dried "Wii is obviously a software-selling machine" choice.

And it's not like I think no core titles will ever come out for the Wii, just that it'll stay a lot like it is now: PS360 getting the lion's share of titles despite their relative dissuccess in the market.

 

[ksamedi]

I think ethelred's on my side here, dude.

I would agree with you, by the way, if my position was that the Wii itself were going to fail here. I don't think that; absent absolutely crazy shit happening, the Wii is the market leader for Japan and Tabris' wildest comeback dreams will never come true.

My position is solely with regard to the Wii as a home for core game titles. It hasn't done almost anything to differentiate itself from the GCN yet. The only argument seems to be "well, the market leader always gets all the third-party support" -- but that's ignoring the fact that the market is weird enough this time around, and enough seemingly viable alternate approaches (Capcom's "dev on 360 for the western market" plan, S-E's "support the fuck out of the DS" plan, Konami's "have you heard the gospel of Kojima?" plan) exist, and Wii third-party sales are seemingly poor enough, that third parties are facing a "which bad choice do you take" decision here, not a cut-and-dried "Wii is obviously a software-selling machine" choice.

And it's not like I think no core titles will ever come out for the Wii, just that it'll stay a lot like it is now: PS360 getting the lion's share of titles despite their relative dissuccess in the market.

For a company to ignore the best selling home console would be absolutely bad buisness. No company could leave out support for a machine like the Wii while Nintendo and its partners are laughing all the way to the bank. If anything, third parties will fire there producers that fail to make games that sell to the Wii audiance. I do think that some companies will fail to adapt, but these are most likely American companies who miss a lot of creative aspects in there development models. Japanese companies will do just fine, Capcom is already making a potential million seller We love golf, I have high hopes for that one.

 

[Tristam]

For a company to ignore the best selling home console would be absolutely bad buisness. No company could leave out support for a machine like the Wii while Nintendo and its partners are laughing all the way to the bank. If anything, third parties will fire there producers that fail to make games that sell to the Wii audiance. I do think that some companies will fail to adapt, but these are most likely American companies who miss a lot of creative aspects in there development models. Japanese companies will do just fine, Capcom is already making a potential million seller We love golf, I have high hopes for that one.

Did you not even read his post? The point is that as it currently stands some (or more accurately, many) games can do just as well (or better) on the PS360 side of things as they would on the Wii. And it may well be that way in the future, too.

 

[PantherLotus]

I did not mean to suggest that Ethel was on my "side," but rather was thinking that one of those may have access to the relevant information.

And it's not like I think no core titles will ever come out for the Wii, just that it'll stay a lot like it is now: PS360 getting the lion's share of titles despite their relative dissuccess in the market.

And that's simply a bad business decision.


===============

I'm not saying they you're patently wrong, but those in your school of thinking are betting against an awful lot of history and simple business sense.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Did you not even read his post? The point is that as it currently stands some (or more accurately, many) games can do just as well (or better) on the PS360 side of things as they would on the Wii. And it may well be that way in the future, too.

The thing is, better doesn't mean they'll profit on it. They can afford to bomb on the Wii much more than they can on the 360 or PS3.

Interestingly, the guys who made Elebits and Dewey are supposedly making another game. Don't know if it's a Wii game, but that would be interesting if it was.

 

[ksamedi]

Did you not even read his post? The point is that as it currently stands some (or more accurately, many) games can do just as well (or better) on the PS360 side of things as they would on the Wii. And it may well be that way in the future, too.

There is no proof of that in any way, but if it does better on the PS3 or 360 than it has no place on the Wii. Also, a true Wii game should not be able to work on the PS3 or 360 and this should be true the other way around as well unless its some universal thing like Guitar hero.

 

[Tristam]

There is no proof of that in any way, but if it does better on the PS3 or 360 than it has no place on the Wii. Also, a true Wii game should not be able to work on the PS3 or 360 and this should be true the other way around as well unless its some universal thing like Guitar hero.

Actually there's plenty of proof that Madden performs miles better with the 360 crowd than it does on Wii. And I guarantee it would be that way even if the game pushed the Wii's specs to the limits and featured the cleverest control scheme that can be possibly be adapted using the Wii Remote and Nunchuk, so it's not an issue of quality. It's an issue of userbase.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Somebody please (JJ? Ethel? donny?) describe the first year of DS, its games relative to its sales (what were the big games?), and the moment that it started changing. The Wii IS following the DS model for success, and I think we can prove it.

Well, it's hard to get a good picture of "then-current DS sales" without going through a bunch of two-year-old threads, because sources one finds today include the sales from the time since, so a lot of games from 2005 appear bigger than they did at the time. That's why I started my new software project a few days ago, but with only PS3 and Wii in there it's not very good for historical purposes yet.

That said, using Japan Game-Charts, here are the top 10 third party DS titles released through this point in its life, and their most recently known sales.

Tamagotchi: 1.11 M
Naruto something something 3: 221K
Naruto RPG 2: 132K
Ace Attorney: 118K
Harvest Moon DS: 107K
Mega Man EXE 5 DT: 107K
Yu-Gi-Oh! Nightmare Troubadour: 102K
Feel the Magic: 100K
Pac-Pix: 99K
SD Gundam G: 94K

Now Wii

Dragon Quest Swords: 471K
DBZ BT2: 158K
RE4 Wii: 105K
Ennichi no Tatsujin: 105K
Naruto something something: 97K
One Piece: 95K
Something Gundam 0079: 86K
Power Pro Wii: 72K
Bleach SB: 69K
Fishing Master: 66K


Each DS game on the list is above its Wii counterpart, but they're nowhere near some of the third party successes we've seen since then. DQS is well above the non-Tamagotchi DS games. Tamagotchi sold more than #2-6 combined. Both lists have some Capcom upgrade ports hanging just over 100K.

In the following couple months, the biggest third-party release of the 2005 holidays were DBZ Supersonic Warriors 2 (eventually reached 317K) and DQ Rocket Slime (eventually reached 294K).

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I think ethelred's on my side here, dude.

Well, I agree with you so that counters if ethelred is on your side

Also, DS isn't GBA or PS2, but it shares quite a few more resemblances to GBA, just its not a dominant handheld, its the dominant console. And no, I don't see any resemblance between DS and Wii first years, unless Nintendo selling 75% of the games can be called a resemblance rather than a fucking disgusting thing in common.

 

[ksamedi]

Actually there's plenty of proof that Madden performs miles better with the 360 crowd than it does on Wii. And I guarantee it would be that way even if the game pushed the Wii's specs to the limits and featured the cleverest control scheme that can be possibly be adapted using the Wii Remote and Nunchuk, so it's not an issue of quality. It's an issue of userbase.

First of all, thats a big claim you make there because a true Madden on Wii would not be able to work on the 360 and thus be a totally different game.
Second of all there is proof that software sales are good on Wii but Nintendo has more succes than third parties so even if what you say is true, that means that you should make something different from Madden (depending on the succes ofcourse, a good selling Wii Madden could still be second place but make some good profit)
Third, this is a Japanese sales thread and I was talking about Japanese sales in which Madden doesn't sell, PS3 games hardly make the charts and the 360 is a dead system.

 

[charlequin]

And that's simply a bad business decision.

For a company to ignore the best selling home console would be absolutely bad buisness.

It's only a bad business decision if core game titles do well after they are put on the Wii.

Right now, there's a couple examples that did: RE4 and DQ:S. There's also a lot more that didn't, and (this is the big thing) that includes Nintendo's own titles, the one area that's been previously unassailable on even Nintendo's biggest failure console. If you're a conservative company that doesn't want to spend a lot of money on shifting development priorities

If we were still in the "handhelds lol" past, I would expect to see Wii eventually become the system of choice regardless (though you shouldn't underestimate the stubbornness of companies wanting to stick to a more familiar business model.) But it isn't: in the five-system videogame market that exists today, Wii is really just the second place system, and plenty of companies choose not to support whoever's in second place.

You guys need to remember that the case for third party development on DS was always based on the most important kind of evidence: sales of third party games. If Wii sees more of those (say MH3 does MH-PSP-like numbers) then its place as the new default third-party system is assured; if other core games slip like SMG has, it's going to settle down, third-party-wise, as another GameCube or N64.

Well, I agree with you so that counters if ethelred is on your side

Sales arguments make strange bedfellows! I'm only a fanboy for one glorious system here: the truth.

 

[Tristam]

First of all, thats a big claim you make there because a true Madden on Wii would not be able to work on the 360 and thus be a totally different game.
Second of all there is proof that software sales are good on Wii but Nintendo has more succes than third parties so even if what you say is true, that means that you should make something different from Madden (depending on the succes ofcourse, a good selling Wii Madden could still be second place but make some good profit)
Third, this is a Japanese sales thread and I was talking about Japanese sales in which Madden doesn't sell, PS3 games hardly make the charts and the 360 is a dead system.

A "true Madden" on Wii should be mechanically identical (or at least extremely similar) to a "true Madden" on 360.

But you're right: this is a thread about Japanese sales. But so far few "core gamer" third-party games have displayed success. DQ:S and RE4:Wii are a couple of examples, but there are many examples to the contrary (Z&W, Opoona, Elebits, Dewy's Adventure; the list goes on). Sure, you can chalk up all failures to poor marketing or game appeal, but pretty soon you're going to run out of chalk.

Even big first party titles for core gamers (like Mario Galaxy) are showing less-than-stellar sales. It's certainly too early to form any verdict on Mario Galaxy's sales (I hope it sells fucking millions), but right now it doesn't look too hot.

 

[ksamedi]

You guys just don't get it.

It's only a bad business decision if core game titles do well after they are put on the Wii.

Right now, there's a couple examples that did: RE4 and DQ:S. There's also a lot more that didn't, and (this is the big thing) that includes Nintendo's own titles, the one area that's been previously unassailable on even Nintendo's biggest failure console. If you're a conservative company that doesn't want to spend a lot of money on shifting development priorities

If we were still in the "handhelds lol" past, I would expect to see Wii eventually become the system of choice regardless (though you shouldn't underestimate the stubbornness of companies wanting to stick to a more familiar business model.) But it isn't: in the five-system videogame market that exists today, Wii is really just the second place system, and plenty of companies choose not to support whoever's in second place.

You guys need to remember that the case for third party development on DS was always based on the most important kind of evidence: sales of third party games. If Wii sees more of those (say MH3 does MH-PSP-like numbers) then its place as the new default third-party system is assured; if other core games slip like SMG has, it's going to settle down, third-party-wise, as another GameCube or N64.

I don't believe that Wii software sales are as bad as you make it out to be. I really have to see total numbers for that to believe you, Nintendo was quite happy with the software sales. I also think that Japanese companies who want growth and answer to share holders will try anything in thee power to find succes on Wii, and this is how it should be because these are the rules of the buisness. You have to please the customer. Yes they have to think differently and yes there are alternatives like the 360 but I think a lot of Japanese companies would fail on the 360 because they have to think western. I think the DS can help them with this transition period of finding the Wii sweetspot. But then again, I really don't think that Wii software sales are bad, I remember it being said to be very good actually.

 

[donny2112]

Wii sports for instance is a very very shallow game,

Pac-Man is an even more shallow "game," if you can even call it that. Shame about all those sales that could've gone to "real" games.

 

[charlequin]

I don't believe that Wii software sales are as bad as you make it out to be. I really have to see total numbers for that to believe you, Nintendo was quite happy with the software sales.

I'm not saying they're already so bad, I'm saying they're on a poor trend. And I guarantee you Nintendo are not "quite happy" with SMG sales.

I also think that Japanese companies who want growth and answer to share holders will try anything in thee power to find succes on Wii

See, this is also factually inaccurate: companies won't "try anything in their power" to find success on Wii, because so far companies are trying some things, but by no means "anything in their power," to find success on the Wii. If third parties were throwing their full effort behind Wii titles, the system would already be selling to more core gamers and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

I think the DS can help them with this transition period of finding the Wii sweetspot.

Why would you use DS to help you transition to Wii when the DS already prints money?

 

[PantherLotus]

Uh...it's a bad business decision to pour high dollar amounts into a system with a smaller userbase, regardless of genre or success therein.

It's a good decision to put the majority of your games on the console with the biggest userbase.




I think the real competition this generation is between the Wii and the DS.

 

[ethelred]

Uh...it's a bad business decision to pour high dollar amounts into a system with a smaller userbase, regardless of genre or success therein.

It's a good decision to put the majority of your games on the console with the biggest userbase.

Not necessarily.

 

[PantherLotus]

Not necessarily.

en generale

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Wii software sales are exceptionally bad. I don't see how anyone can conclude otherwise.

 

[Vic]

You guys are jumping to conclusions way to quickly.

 

[schuelma]

Wii software sales are exceptionally bad. I don't see how anyone can conclude otherwise.

"exceptionally bad"?

I agree the last few months they've been disappointing, but I don't think they've reached that kind of territory...yet.

 

[ksamedi]

I'm not saying they're already so bad, I'm saying they're on a poor trend. And I guarantee you Nintendo are not "quite happy" with SMG sales.

We will have to wait and see for that one but you are right, they could have been higher but still not bad by any means.

See, this is also factually inaccurate: companies won't "try anything in their power" to find success on Wii, because so far companies are trying some things, but by no means "anything in their power," to find success on the Wii. If third parties were throwing their full effort behind Wii titles, the system would already be selling to more core gamers and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.




Why would you use DS to help you transition to Wii when the DS already prints money?

What shareholders care about is profit and growth. Companies answer to these shareholders. Even if the DS is your main platform, the Wii has proven to be a viabeble system for software sales as well. Not only that but the profit margins on Wii software are much higher than DS software. (DS software cost less but also sell for less profit, Wii software cost more but sell for more profit, once you break even, Wii software is more profiteble) If Nintendo can sell a diverse selection of software ranging from Mario to Zelda to Warioware to Wiisports than so should third parties (yes third parties would kill for Zelda sales even if its the lowest selling Zelda in Japan).

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

/me grabs popcorn

I wonder if you guys still think Wii is getting shafted in terms of 3rd party support. Compared to PS3 that is...

I don't.

 

[schuelma]

/me grabs popcorn

I wonder if you guys still think Wii is getting shafted in terms of 3rd party support. Compared to PS3 that is...

I don't.

Putting a 3rd party game on the PS3 still seems like a hell of a lot riskier move to me.

 

[Cosmozone]

It seems to me they must build a new user base. The biggest part of the old one has been lost, especially for Nintendo.

 

[ksamedi]

Putting a 3rd party game on the PS3 still seems like a hell of a lot riskier move to me.

True, its selling bad in the western markets as well.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

If anything, third parties will fire there producers that fail to make games that sell to the Wii audiance. I do think that some companies will fail to adapt, but these are most likely American companies who miss a lot of creative aspects in there development models. Japanese companies will do just fine, Capcom is already making a potential million seller We love golf, I have high hopes for that one.

This is quite the generalization, that American devs are less creative than Japanese developers. And it flies in the face of the abundance of new IPs that have done exceptionally well over the last two years, Red Steel included. If we're talking about Japanese sales alone, its impossible to make a valid comparison, because Western games almost never sell in Japan, innovative or not.

And firing your talent for their refusal to work on hardware that they don't want to work on is an easy way to end up with a portfolio of mediocre games.

First of all, thats a big claim you make there because a true Madden on Wii would not be able to work on the 360 and thus be a totally different game.

Madden as it exists on Wii could not be done on the 360. It's a football sim that uses motion controls to perform analogous actions on the field. But at the end of the day, its selling point is (and should be) that it's a football sim.

But as you say, Madden should be a non-issue in a Japanese thread.

There is no proof of that in any way, but if it does better on the PS3 or 360 than it has no place on the Wii. Also, a true Wii game should not be able to work on the PS3 or 360 and this should be true the other way around as well unless its some universal thing like Guitar hero.

Okay, this argument is fundamentally flawed. You're now asking 3rd parties to not make the games that they want to make (the 'fire the producer' bit), but games that have to be based on motion controls in order to sell? Doesn't this argue against every dev putting the majority of their resources into making traditional games on Wii? There are some games that work just as well with regular controls, and for those games the Wii has to present a convincing argument to Japanese devs that it's a better choice than PSP, DS, or PS3/360/PC.

Uh...it's a bad business decision to pour high dollar amounts into a system with a smaller userbase, regardless of genre or success therein.

This isn't true and you know it.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Putting a 3rd party game on the PS3 still seems like a hell of a lot riskier move to me.

I agree. PS3 software sales are inarguably bad worldwide.