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[damisa]

You are still part of the problem.

And eventually, they will support the market leader. That's how this works. That's not to say they won't make 360 games anymore, but in a year or two you can bet the Wii will have the biggest share of third party support.

360 is the market leader in the only way 3rd parties care about: 3rd party software sales.
Even with the DS which is massively popular (more than PS2 in many areas), nintendo accounts for something like 2/3 of all software sales. I think 3rd parties secretly hope 360or PS3 do better than wii just so they don't have to compete with nintendo software.

 

[Eteric Rice]

360 is the market leader in the only way 3rd parties care about: 3rd party software sales.
Even with the DS which is massively popular (more than PS2 in many areas), nintendo accounts for something like 2/3 of all software sales. I think 3rd parties secretly hope 360or PS3 do better than wii just so they don't have to compete with nintendo software.

Do you know "why" 360 software sells better?

Because it isn't shovelware trash that they've been throwing on the Wii for a quick buck. Most of the 360's games are built from the ground up, and are able to garner some kind of interest. Also, they actually advertise those games.

It's not Nintendo's fault that their software sells like shit. Shitty software/poorly advertised software will have shitty sales/poor sales. And shit deserves to sell like shit. Every "good" game that had something resembeling advertising actually sold.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Do you know "why" 360 software sells better?

Because it isn't shovelware trash that they've been throwing on the Wii for a quick buck. Most of the 360's games are built from the ground up, and are able to garner some kind of interest. Also, they actually advertise those games.

It's not Nintendo's fault that their software sells like shit. Shitty software/poorly advertised software will have shitty sales/poor sales. And shit deserves to sell like shit. Every "good" game that had something resembeling advertising actually sold.

QFT

3rd party devs. on Wii think they can put together random crap and expect it to sell. They got to get rid of that mindset asap

 

[charlequin]

2. So we have should more PS2-like games on Wii?

Given that the PS2 had one of the best and most diverse libraries of any console in history... yes?

And eventually, they will support the market leader. That's how this works.

This entire generation is an object lesson in the fact that "how this works" is subject to change. At the moment, I peg "a few giant-budget projects and a lot of bombs on PS360, mini-games on Wii, and everything else on DS" as at least as possible. If that's not going to happen then at least some effort needs to be put in (from pretty much every side) on making Wii an actual friendly place for core games.

 

[The Innocent X]

Do you know "why" 360 software sells better?

Because it isn't shovelware trash that they've been throwing on the Wii for a quick buck. Most of the 360's games are built from the ground up, and are able to garner some kind of interest. Also, they actually advertise those games.

It's not Nintendo's fault that their software sells like shit. Shitty software/poorly advertised software will have shitty sales/poor sales. And shit deserves to sell like shit. Every "good" game that had something resembeling advertising actually sold.

So how will they realise and make the Wii the third party monster it DESERVES to be? An epiphany?

Cos how it has always worked in the past is that developers go where they make most money, based on previous results.

 

[damisa]

Do you know "why" 360 software sells better?

Because it isn't shovelware trash that they've been throwing on the Wii for a quick buck. Most of the 360's games are built from the ground up, and are able to garner some kind of interest. Also, they actually advertise those games.

It's not Nintendo's fault that their software sells like shit. Shitty software/poorly advertised software will have shitty sales/poor sales. And shit deserves to sell like shit. Every "good" game that had something resembeling advertising actually sold.

So all a 3rd party needs to do is make an AAA game in only non-nintendo genres with lots of advertising to sell their games. How many PS2 3rd party games fit this criteria? 1%?

 

[ksamedi]

360 is the market leader in the only way 3rd parties care about: 3rd party software sales.
Even with the DS which is massively popular (more than PS2 in many areas), nintendo accounts for something like 2/3 of all software sales. I think 3rd parties secretly hope 360or PS3 do better than wii just so they don't have to compete with nintendo software.

I don't see how there is a specific platform for third parties, its not like all the millions of people collectivly decide to only buy third party games on the 360, there is a reason for that. The userbase is never the one to blame.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Tenchu Z was a high quality affair that deserved to sell every copy that it did.

 

[PantherLotus]

So all a 3rd party needs to do is make an AAA game in only non-nintendo genres with lots of advertising to sell their games. How many PS2 3rd party games fit this criteria? 1%?

To answer that you'd have to define what a "non-Sony first party game" would be?

 

[Eteric Rice]

So all a 3rd party needs to do is make an AAA game in only non-nintendo genres with lots of advertising to sell their games. How many PS2 3rd party games fit this criteria? 1%?

Pretty much every big PS2 game fits that criteria.

So how will they realise and make the Wii the third party monster it DESERVES to be? An epiphany?

Cos how it has always worked in the past is that developers go where they make most money, based on previous results.

By making games that don't suck and get the public to realize these games exist?

As the Wii's userbase grows (and it's growing pretty rapidly), more and more games will be bought. If things keep going as they are, the Wii will eventually catch up in terms of attachment ratio.

 

[Belgorim]

I don't see how there is a specific platform for third parties, its not like all the millions of people collectivly decide to only buy third party games on the 360, there is a reason for that. The userbase is never the one to blame.

so there is no way that the wii is catering to a new market of people that are not very interested in buying lots of games regardless of quality?

because if this is the case, you can pretty much blame the userbase

 

[Nolan.]

Tenchu Z was a high quality affair that deserved to sell every copy that it did.

And Two Worlds...

 

[ksamedi]

so there is no way that the wii is catering to a new market of people that are not very interested in buying lots of games regardless of quality?

because if this is the case, you can pretty much blame the userbase

Well numbers don't lie and so far the Wii is definitly a viable platform for software sales.

 

[laserbeam]

So how will they realize and make the Wii the third party monster it DESERVES to be? An epiphany?

Cos how it has always worked in the past is that developers go where they make most money, based on previous results.

Its actually always been they go where the Leader is. Shitty games even on the PS2 bombed and were laughing stocks. its no different on the 360 or the Wii. Bad games don't sell and when they do sell its because people don't know better.

The 360 has had plenty of downright shitty games and some of them have even sold far more then they ever should have. Developers eventually get the clue and realize effort = profit

 

[charlequin]

so there is no way that the wii is catering to a new market of people that are not very interested in buying lots of games regardless of quality?

because if this is the case, you can pretty much blame the userbase

Actually, you can blame the manufacturer. Nintendo chose to release the paucity of core game titles that the Wii currently has, and to focus as heavily as they did on casual gamers. That decision is what's maintaining third-party reticence; Nintendo doing something to make the Wii look like a real gaming machine would probably go a long way towards remedying this issue.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

QFT

3rd party devs. on Wii think they can put together random crap and expect it to sell. They got to get rid of that mindset asap

The thing is, it has already worked. Low budget games, PS2/GCN port-ups, and mini-game compilations have sold well on Wii; at least well enough that most don't see a reason to change the status quo.

No system this gen is going to be the next PS2, the Wii included. There are too many forces pulling different games in different directions. Fatal Frame and Monster Hunter now leading on the Wii, Final Fantasy and Star Ocean leading on PS3, Resident Evil and Ace Combat leading on 360, Kingdom Hearts leading on PSP, Dragon Quest and Mario leading on DS, Parasite Eve leading on cell phones.

Most of the prominent series from last generation already have sequels announced, and they're scattered all over the place. It seems painstakingly obvious that the overwhelming majority of 3rd party titles aren't going to land on any one platform this generation.

Pretty much every big PS2 game fits that criteria.

Every game that sold well on PS2 wasn't AAA, just as every game that sells well now on 360 or Wii isn't AAA. The market is never as simple as quality = sales. Oftentimes gamers at large (and their tastes) are the only reason a game sells well or flops.

 

[First Children]

Why Handhelds will destroy consoles in every market:
1. Hardware Cost (both to develop and to purchase)
2. Cost of Games (both to develop and to purchase)
3. Variety of games
4. Casual Market is interested. (aka 2D gaming)
5. Hardcore Market is interested. (aka old school gaming)
6. The current console race is an atrocity.

I actually think Wii can provide a much more casual experience than DS, much more deep AND simple to play games, people will love it more.

I predict Wii > DS sooner or later.

 

[davepoobond]

I actually think Wii can provide a much more casual experience than DS, much more deep AND simple to play games, people will love it more.

I predict Wii > DS sooner or later.

casuals don't stay home

sorry! you lose!

 

[ksamedi]

Actually, you can blame the manufacturer. Nintendo chose to release the paucity of core game titles that the Wii currently has, and to focus as heavily as they did on casual gamers. That decision is what's maintaining third-party reticence; Nintendo doing something to make the Wii look like a real gaming machine would probably go a long way towards remedying this issue.

But the Wii doing the numbers that it did (and probably will after WiiFit) is all because of expanding into the non gamers area. The DS did 150k a week because all kinds of people bought the system and on top of that a huge number of non gamers as well, this in turn attracted more third party software. The same thing is happening to the Wii, start with some casual content and some hardcore content and expand both ways (pull and push). What the Wii is selling now is what the traditional market consist of, with games like WiiFit you will get into the 100k range.

EDIT: Ofcourse I don't really know what the Wii demographics are but I what I mean with traditional market is people who already were into games be it casual or hardcore. The non-traditional market is the non-game area.

 

[laserbeam]

casuals don't stay home

sorry! you lose!

Wii just needs some sex games and it will explode sales wise to the hardcore cause the casual players actually get the real thing

 

[Kodiak]

word of mouth on how amazing SMG will carry it to the moooooooooooooooooon

 

[The Innocent X]

Semi off topic, but what year do the people expecting a Wii third party surge expect Madden Wii to outsell Madden 360?

 

[Eteric Rice]

The thing is, it has already worked. Low budget games, PS2/GCN port-ups, and mini-game compilations have sold well on Wii; at least well enough that most don't see a reason to change the status quo.

No system this gen is going to be the next PS2, the Wii included. There are too many forces pulling different games in different directions. Fatal Frame and Monster Hunter now leading on the Wii, Final Fantasy and Star Ocean leading on PS3, Resident Evil and Ace Combat leading on 360, Kingdom Hearts leading on PSP, Dragon Quest and Mario leading on DS, Parasite Eve leading on cell phones.

Most of the prominent series from last generation already have sequels announced, and they're scattered all over the place. It seems painstakingly obvious that the overwhelming majority of 3rd party titles aren't going to land on any one platform this generation.



Every game that sold well on PS2 wasn't AAA, just as every game that sells well now on 360 or Wii isn't AAA. The market is never as simple as quality = sales. Oftentimes gamers at large (and their tastes) are the only reason a game sells well or flops.

The DS is already the next PS2. I thought we all agreed on this already?

 

[ElFly]

Saying the 360 is a better fit for old school games is not "scmuckery." A vast amount of genres just don't work on the Wii.

Take fighting games. SSBM may work just okay (I'll likely use a gamecube controller), but a more tradtional fighter, from Virtual Fighter to Soul Callibur, uses a whole lot of buttons, something the Wii doesn't have.

But this is an awful example, as Virtua Fighter sells less and less with each iteration, even when it is probably the best fighting game available, and Melee sold a lot in the last gen, and Brawl will probably sell as much.

Fighting games became too hardcore. That, along with the death of arcades, means they are completely homeless.

 

[Saint10118]

2. So we have should more PS2-like games on Wii? If I'm a developer I could make a PS2 level game on Wii, or I could use the extra firepower available on the other consoles, which would I choose? Lets not forget that some companies are doing what you suggest, and bringing over everything from Bully to Ping Pong to Godfather to the Wii. That's not what I'm looking for in a Wii game -- something that can be done on the PS2.

I really don't think that it is what Panther was going for in his response and examples he listed and in my understanding he in all actuallity was suggesting the opposite of the example you give with PS2 ports such as Bully and Ping Pong. Specifically, that developers should bring an expansive amount of gaming experiences like they did for the previous generation's market leader regardless of the graphic and control capabilities.

I'd rather have 3rd parties "follow Nintendo's lead" and do something new.

Not really something new if all your doing is half-assed emulation of what Nintendo did first (and better).

345. I think you don't give 3rd parties enough credit judging the situation. Like has been mentioned in other threads, a 3rd party has the choice of making both an 360 and PS3 game or a Wii game. The combined userbase of those systems is still fairly substantial.

Still a large, and ever-growing, difference in cost of development and userbase. I don't see how this is an exceptable excuse for not bringing/adapting different genres of games to the Wii.

It also has several advantages: Not competing with Nintendo's games, better online support (no small thing when talking about First Person Shooters), more buttons and better graphics.

Still not an excuse

The Wii has the advantage of a higher userbase, lower development costs and the ability to use motion controls.

And is the market leader and will stay that way in Japan.

I'm sure Wii will get a lot of support this generation. But it won't be as clear cut as 80 percent of 3rd parties supporting the "market leader." 3rd parties still make a lot of money on the 360 with traditional games.

Support one console does not have to come at the exclusion of another.

Saying "traditional games" in reference to the 360 is pretty substantial generalization and again what it seems that Panther was refering to was a broad range of genres the majority of which are not well represented on the Wii (or for that matter the 360).

You're wrong to think there wuill be "less of them" unles they immediatly drop their profitable support of the system to create Grand Theft Auto Vice City 2 on the Wii.

Why say such things?

 

[laserbeam]

Semi off topic, but what year do the people expecting a Wii third party surge expect Madden Wii to outsell Madden 360?

Madden Wii could sell well enough to put up that fight when EA gives the wii version everything the 360 has as far as online. Might take them more effort then just ripping 8 year old online infrastructure to give it but it can be done.

Madden Wii doesn't reach the sales of the 360 due to the limitation in what can be played online currently. People are obsessed with their Virtual leagues and as of 08 version the Wii doesn't give it

 

[Eteric Rice]

Semi off topic, but what year do the people expecting a Wii third party surge expect Madden Wii to outsell Madden 360?

Don't know, a lot of people probably bought a 360 just for HD Madden.

I bet it'd be a lot closer if it wasn't the "360" logo on all of the commercials, though.

 

[davepoobond]

Do you know "why" 360 software sells better?

Because it isn't shovelware trash that they've been throwing on the Wii for a quick buck. Most of the 360's games are built from the ground up, and are able to garner some kind of interest. Also, they actually advertise those games.

It's not Nintendo's fault that their software sells like shit. Shitty software/poorly advertised software will have shitty sales/poor sales. And shit deserves to sell like shit. Every "good" game that had something resembeling advertising actually sold.

well, Nintendo is the one that was advertising "cheap development." And most of the publishers just thought "cheap development compared to PS2."

 

[Magic Mile]

Madden Wii could sell well enough to put up that fight when EA gives the wii version everything the 360 has as far as online. Might take them more effort then just ripping 8 year old online infrastructure to give it but it can be done.

Madden Wii doesn't reach the sales of the 360 due to the limitation in what can be played online currently. People are obsessed with their Virtual leagues and as of 08 version the Wii doesn't give it

Madden 08 Wii was terrible, I returned it to the store.

Completely lacking any features or options. What a waste. I am glad it didn't sell good, maybe next year they will fix it all.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

2. So we have should more PS2-like games on Wii? If I'm a developer I could make a PS2 level game on Wii, or I could use the extra firepower available on the other consoles, which would I choose? Lets not forget that some companies are doing what you suggest, and bringing over everything from Bully to Ping Pong to Godfather to the Wii. That's not what I'm looking for in a Wii game -- something that can be done on the PS2.

But man, that's really cornering Wii into something very narrow. Only things that are impossible on PS2, but that also nobody would care about looking uglier than a potential X360/PS3 version?

I'd rather have 3rd parties "follow Nintendo's lead" and do something new.

I'd rather have 3rd parties "follow Nintendo's lead" and do both.

So all a 3rd party needs to do is make an AAA game in only non-nintendo genres with lots of advertising to sell their games. How many PS2 3rd party games fit this criteria? 1%?

Well, those are the 1% that make for a disproportionately large chunk of attention, love, and sales.

Actually, you can blame the manufacturer. Nintendo chose to release the paucity of core game titles that the Wii currently has, and to focus as heavily as they did on casual gamers. That decision is what's maintaining third-party reticence; Nintendo doing something to make the Wii look like a real gaming machine would probably go a long way towards remedying this issue.

They've been publishing as many core games on Wii as they did on GCN. Fewer third parties were willing to commit early to an underpowered GCN successor than they were to an N64 successor, though, so there haven't been as many well-received mainstream third-party core games like GCN's early Rogue Leader, THPS3, Resident Evil. Checking GameRankings, it appears that by the end of 2001 there were 8 third-party core games with an 80% or greater score. Wii to date, there are 5.

Ironically, it's the western third party support which is most lacking compared to last generation, yet it's the Japanese market without significant competition where Wii stumbled first.

 

[donny2112]

Third-parties will have a much tougher time this generation than last. Last generation, they could just put a game on the PS2 and know they had probably given it the best chance to sell it was going to get. This generation, there is no defacto standard. Publishers have to individually determine which system gives a particular type of game the best shot at selling well. Worldwide, it is not always the 360. It is not always the Wii. It is not determined by how strong of graphics the publisher wants.

Spoiler

Anyone proclaiming that it's a bad idea to put a game on Wii due to the hit in graphics better not have been really happy about any game coming to the PS2 last generation.

The Wii hasn't shown itself to be a big seller for traditional types of games, yet. Eventually a publisher will take the plunge and put a strong PS2-traditional game on the Wii to see how it goes. Monster Hunter 3 may just be that first step.

In Japan, the only strongly viable options are PS2 (not a long-term solution) or DS. The Wii could become a strongly viable option, if its software sales pick up. It happened with the DS, and it could happen with the Wii. Otherwise, the vast majority of the biggest selling games in Japan this generation will reside solely on the DS.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

The DS is already the next PS2. I thought we all agreed on this already?

In sales, yes, but it doesn't cover nearly as many genres, and doesn't do many of them well at all. One would not buy a DS for great fighting games, sports games, racing games (or sims), survival horror games, action games, etc.

Madden Wii could sell well enough to put up that fight when EA gives the wii version everything the 360 has as far as online. Might take them more effort then just ripping 8 year old online infrastructure to give it but it can be done.

Madden Wii doesn't reach the sales of the 360 due to the limitation in what can be played online currently. People are obsessed with their Virtual leagues and as of 08 version the Wii doesn't give it

Don't know, a lot of people probably bought a 360 just for HD Madden.

I bet it'd be a lot closer if it wasn't the "360" logo on all of the commercials, though.

Madden 08 Wii was terrible, I returned it to the store.

Completely lacking any features or options. What a waste. I am glad it didn't sell good, maybe next year they will fix it all.

This Madden spin is sad. The limitations and/or differences of the Wii version have everything to do with the hardware, and not with EA.

- No voice chat isn't EA's fault
- The 360 version does NOT have online leagues either
- The Wii version will never look as good as the 360 version
- The Wii version was the only 'next-gen' version with full color commentary
- The Wii version had tons of content that wasn't in every other version, plus a good implementation of motion controls
- Everyone knows that Madden comes out every year for every platform, regardless of commercials promoting a specific platform (like the GCN logo EA commercials ever helped)

Quite simply, there are certain games that will never be as popular on Wii, no matter how much effort is put into them, as they are on PS2/PS3/360, because of the nature of the hardware and the default control interface. Similarly, there are some games people prefer to play on handhelds (see: Monster Hunter), and some that they'll never touch on handhelds (see: GTA). FIFA's sales should have made this painstakingly obvious by now.

As I said, no console this generation is going to the be 'the next PS2', it's way past time we stopped dreaming up scenarios where this is going to happen.

 

[felipeko]

This Madden spin is sad. The limitations and/or differences of the Wii version have everything to do with the hardware, and not with EA.

Oh c'mon, it's a consensus that this 2008 version is worst than 2007. And Wii version is even worst than PS2's. How come this have nothing to do with EA?

 

[Eteric Rice]

In sales, yes, but it doesn't cover nearly as many genres, and doesn't do many of them well at all. One would not buy a DS for great fighting games, sports games, racing games (or sims), survival horror games, action games, etc.







This Madden spin is sad. The limitations and/or differences of the Wii version have everything to do with the hardware, and not with EA.

- No voice chat isn't EA's fault
- The 360 version does NOT have online leagues either
- The Wii version will never look as good as the 360 version
- The Wii version was the only 'next-gen' version with full color commentary
- The Wii version had tons of content that wasn't in every other version, plus a good implementation of motion controls
- Everyone knows that Madden comes out every year for every platform, regardless of commercials promoting a specific platform (like the GCN logo EA commercials ever helped)

Quite simply, there are certain games that will never be as popular on Wii, no matter how much effort is put into them, as they are on PS2/PS3/360, because of the nature of the hardware and the default control interface. Similarly, there are some games people prefer to play on handhelds (see: Monster Hunter), and some that they'll never touch on handhelds (see: GTA). FIFA's sales should have made this painstakingly obvious by now.

As I said, no console this generation is going to the be 'the next PS2', it's way past time we stopped dreaming up scenarios where this is going to happen.

Of course not, it's a handheld. But one would buy a DS for RPGs, Puzzle games, Rythem games, etc.

There won't be a PS2 this year, but there will be a top one, and it's looking like it will be the Wii or 360 in the future. I'm betting Wii if software picks up some.

 

[donny2112]

Similarly, there are some games people prefer to play on handhelds (see: Monster Hunter), and some that they'll never touch on handhelds (see: GTA).

GTA:LCS sold like crap now?

 

[Arde5643]

GTA:LCS sold like crap now?

It sells badly if it doesn't fit the propaganda being spouted.

 

[Magic Mile]

This Madden spin is sad. The limitations and/or differences of the Wii version have everything to do with the hardware, and not with EA.

- No voice chat isn't EA's fault
- The 360 version does NOT have online leagues either
- The Wii version will never look as good as the 360 version
- The Wii version was the only 'next-gen' version with full color commentary
- The Wii version had tons of content that wasn't in every other version, plus a good implementation of motion controls
- Everyone knows that Madden comes out every year for every platform, regardless of commercials promoting a specific platform (like the GCN logo EA commercials ever helped)

Bull shit! I actually played the Madden Wii 08 version, did you?

Tons of content that wasn't in every other version? What are you talking about? Apart from the telestrator(which is useless) and the Family Mode, it had nothing that was in other versions. No create-a-player, create-a-team, no tournament mode, nothing.

 

[Vic]

Of course not, it's a handheld. But one would buy a DS for RPGs, Puzzle games, Rythem games, etc.

I disagree. The reason why those genres aren't very popular on the DS is because there's barely games of those genres made for the platform (excepted for the action genre, there's already a lot of them on the DS. You're wrong, Sho_Nuff82).

I'm sure that the fighting genre on the DS will kick into the 1st gear in 2008 (Ultimate Mortal Kombat is the breakthrough, Capcom USA and others will follow, I hope).

 

[iidesuyo]

So people are agreeing that DS is the new PS2 because of pure sales? That makes no sense, by that logic the Game Boy Classic would have been the new NES in the early 90s since it sold better than the SNES (and had a very diverse SW library).

 

[PantherLotus]

Quite simply, there are certain games that will never be as popular on Wii, no matter how much effort is put into them, as they are on PS2/PS3/360, because of the nature of the hardware and the default control interface. Similarly, there are some games people prefer to play on handhelds (see: Monster Hunter), and some that they'll never touch on handhelds (see: GTA). FIFA's sales should have made this painstakingly obvious by now.

As I said, no console this generation is going to the be 'the next PS2', it's way past time we stopped dreaming up scenarios where this is going to happen.

That's pretty goddamned bold statement. And considering that there has always been one dominant console that either won the majority outright or won by outlasting the competition (in the SNES case), you'd be betting against history, simple business economics, and against what looks to be an open and shut case of the public making the decision fairly quickly.

 

[Eteric Rice]

So people are agreeing that DS is the new PS2 because of pure sales? That makes no sense, by that logic the Game Boy Classic would have been the new NES in the early 90s since it sold better than the SNES (and had a very diverse SW library).

No, because of the library. The DS's library ranges from RPGs, SRPGs, to rythem, puzzle, sims, etc. It's the "PS2" in the way it's getting supported, as well.

 

[PantherLotus]

I think that's absurd as well. The DS is not the new PS2, it's the new GBA. This time though, it can actually play PS1-level and above type games, generally satisfying what true hardcore gamers could ever want. (true hardcore = rpg playing freaks that don't give a rats ass about GRAFIXXTH)

Also, I challenge anybody to find a comment that suggested the DS was "the new PS2" after its first year, like people are expecting the Wii to be.

 

[ksamedi]

I think that's absurd as well. The DS is not the new PS2, it's the new GBA. This time though, it can actually play PS1-level and above type games, generally satisfying what true hardcore gamers could ever want. (true hardcore = rpg playing freaks that don't give a rats ass about GRAFIXXTH)

Also, I challenge anybody to find a comment that suggested the DS was "the new PS2" after its first year, like people are expecting the Wii to be.

It definitly is more than the GBA. It covers markets that the GBA could never have and thats also why its selling much faster than the GBA.

 

[PantherLotus]

It (the DS) definitly is more than the GBA. It (the DS) covers markets that the GBA could never have and thats also why its selling much faster than the GBA.

Replace (DS) with (Wii), and (GBA) with (PS2), and the statement is still true.

Now do you guys get my point?

 

[Deku]

I think that's absurd as well. The DS is not the new PS2, it's the new GBA. This time though, it can actually play PS1-level and above type games, generally satisfying what true hardcore gamers could ever want. (true hardcore = rpg playing freaks that don't give a rats ass about GRAFIXXTH)

Also, I challenge anybody to find a comment that suggested the DS was "the new PS2" after its first year, like people are expecting the Wii to be.

It's a lot better than the GBA, and is also in the enviable position of outclassing all the next-gen platforms when it comes to software library. It's a position the GBA never enjoyed due to timing issues and largely because even the large publishers put their 3rd run teams or outsourced work to some shabby studio for their GBA games.

That may change in a few years, but the momentum is just awesome on the DS side, stuff like Populus, Hotel Dusk are the kind of games I want to play. Not shooter #1424 or Mini-game waggle Party 21 and it's third party rip off, Partiez

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Well, no one would have expected the DS to be the new PS2 after the first year. We all expected the PS3 would be the new PS2 at that point.

I think people want to call the DS the new PS2 because all of the alternatives have been released, and the only one that looks like it has a shot at going the distance is the Wii, which has its own demons to overcome.

Meanwhile, the DS is getting things like Dragon Quest IX and heavy Square/Atlus support while none of the newer consoles is currently seeing anything like that.

If Wii third-party sales don't pick up soon, regardless of the reason, it's going to start giving the Wii a stigma (one might argue it started with this stigma due to Nintendo having a general stigma about this stuff). The longer it takes to happen, the harder it will be to shake that image. This applies to the PS3's loser stink, and it certainly applies here.

 

[iidesuyo]

The DS's library ranges from RPGs, SRPGs, to rythem, puzzle, sims, etc.

Exactly like the Game Boy! For example Link's Awakening wasn't some poor downgrade, besides the technical aspect it could fully compete with the SNES version. There were puzzles, RPGs, Jump'n Runs, everything.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I think that's absurd as well. The DS is not the new PS2, it's the new GBA. This time though, it can actually play PS1-level and above type games, generally satisfying what true hardcore gamers could ever want. (true hardcore = rpg playing freaks that don't give a rats ass about GRAFIXXTH)

Also, I challenge anybody to find a comment that suggested the DS was "the new PS2" after its first year, like people are expecting the Wii to be.

Ehhh, I think some mangle what they mean when they say this stuff.

Simply put we can all hope their won't be a PS2 this gen. A platform that siphoned in almost all legit development resources in the industry. Leaving everything else to pick up the scraps.

This generation doesn't seem to be that much different at the start. As only one again seems to be making a go of it. But the stark difference is the development resources given. The Wii has next to none of any great big 3rd party exclusives.

The Wii will always have it's place alongside a 360 or PS3, but developers really bought Nintendo's hype. It's a system that goes along with those two, but doesn't compete.
They seem to firmly believe that.

But if there's any PS2 this gen it is the DS, though it's heights may be much higher. And it may grab a stranglehold on big name series. If DQIX is a success, I don't expect any after to see release on a console for a long time.

If Wii third-party sales don't pick up soon, regardless of the reason, it's going to start giving the Wii a stigma (one might argue it started with this stigma due to Nintendo having a general stigma about this stuff). The longer it takes to happen, the harder it will be to shake that image. This applies to the PS3's loser stink, and it certainly applies here.

That it does. Self-fulfilling prophecies.

They think it will do bad, they give it to a small, inexperienced team, they under fund it, they under promote the title, it fails, they believe they were justified in the outset.

Such a stigma can stick very easily.

 

[Deku]

If Wii third-party sales don't pick up soon, regardless of the reason, it's going to start giving the Wii a stigma (one might argue it started with this stigma due to Nintendo having a general stigma about this stuff). The longer it takes to happen, the harder it will be to shake that image. This applies to the PS3's loser stink, and it certainly applies here.

I think third parties are having a hard time on all 3 platforms if recent financials mean anything.

They can sell more units on more mature platforms like the 360 but the dev costs seem to force them to want to go multiplatform or kill off chances of a sequel without expliciti financial support from the hardware manufacturer. That's not a self sustaining 'ecosystem' (to use a trendy business speak). This isn't like the PS2 or PS or SNES generations when profits could be reinvested into the next project. I don't think Capcom has made much off their hits like Lost PLanet, hence the push to port it to the PS3 and PC.

The Wii's advantage is that 3rd parties can afford multiple bombs, they just need one or two hits in between and this was precisely the same kind of business model that sustained the Famicom/NES SNES/SFC/MD in the past. Not every well reviewed title sold like gangbusters back them either.

 

[lupin23rd]

I know a few people are playing DW6 already, but that comes out today in Japan (it's 6am on the 11th there now), correct? Or did Koei release it early? Will be interesting to see the sales numbers for this game since it is a huge franchise and coming to both PS3 and 360 on the same day. Don't think that's happened before in Japan?