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[JoshuaJSlone]

Do you think Capcom is a bit worried about their plans to make Monster Hunter 3 for the wii after what is happening with SMG. I mean if SMG is having trouble selling, and the MH3 adience is far more hardcore, is there a market for MH3 on the wii? They would have to change the formula quite a bit for MH3 to please most of the wii base. And that would seriously piss of most of the MH3 fans (especially me... )

It's a catch-22. The audience for games of Type X won't be there unless games of Type X are released.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Do you think Capcom is a bit worried about their plans to make Monster Hunter 3 for the wii after what is happening with SMG. I mean if SMG is having trouble selling, and the MH3 adience is far more hardcore, is there a market for MH3 on the wii? They would have to change the formula quite a bit for MH3 to please most of the wii base. And that would seriously piss of most of the MH3 fans (especially me... )

I don't think they would have had much trouble selling a good amount of copies, if they made it for PS3, as most of the people buying PS3's are pretty hardcore. Even if they cut some corners in order of keeping the cost down.

Sorry for bringing this up again

Surely Zelda has more in common with Monster Hunter than SMG has, if they're going to base their expectations on Nintendo games?

 

[Eteric Rice]

It's a catch-22. The audience for games of Type X won't be there unless games of Type X are released.

Basically.

I don't think they're worried, really. It's going to cost them significantly less to make the Wii game as it would the PS3 game. Even if it would have sold better on the PS3, the cheaper cost will probably make up for it.

 

[Sage00]

Capcom are just being Capcom. RE4 to Gamecube audience, etc..

 

[Weisheit]

So you... don't want to talk about sales?

What about this exchange led you to believe I did?

Not really. Nintendo created this mess, and it's bloody awesome to see them suffer for it. Iwata, meet petard.

Billions in profit is suffering? Well, shit. I want to suffer too.

 

[charlequin]

It's a catch-22. The audience for games of Type X won't be there unless games of Type X are released.

Well: that's usually what launch period games are intended to accomplish, right? They sell by virtue of being what's available (bypassing the audience issue), and in doing so build the market for future games. That's why it's such a problem for a system a year or two in to try to shift it's demographics.

Of course, moneyhats also work at this. If you can pay for eight games of type X to come out on your system regardless of potential sales, people who love type X games will be more inclined buy the system -- that's certainly part of why I want a 360.

 

[schuelma]

Capcom are just being Capcom. RE4 to Gamecube audience, etc..

Please elaborate on what you mean by this statement.

 

[Sage00]

What about this exchange led you to believe I did?

Third parties couldn't care less about Nintendo's bottom line. What they see is the sales.

 

[Ristlager]

I don't have the numbers in my head, but didn't TP sell quite bad in Japan? And MH is a series which only sells well in Japan. So comparing it with zelda isn't that much more uplifting?

 

[Sage00]

Please elaborate on what you mean by this statement.

They'll carve out their own niche audience inside a system that will buy their games. RE4, RE0 and REmake being all around the 1 million mark points to that audience pretty well. I'm sure they'll do the same with their Wii games.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I don't have the numbers in my head, but didn't TP sell quite bad in Japan? And MH is a series which only sells well in Japan. So comparing it with zelda isn't that much more uplifting?

That's my point, I think. (It would be silly to use Zelda or Mario sales to judge the success of Monster Hunter)

 

[CTLance]

Hoo boy.
Those are some ridiculously bad SMG numbers - and some awesome PS3 sales. It's national opposite week in Japan, right? RIGHT? :lol This is getting very interesting.

 

[davepoobond]

so what was the thread where everyone was saying smg would do amazingly in japan?

 

[charlequin]

I don't have the numbers in my head, but didn't TP sell quite bad in Japan?

Topped off at 534k, compared to Wind Waker's 742k. Galaxy is very likely to show a lower gen-over-gen drop compared to Sunshine, thanks to the holiday; but yes, these two titles together are what I consider fairly solid evidence that the classic "Nintendo audience" aren't really all-in on the Wii (or that it's shrunk, and core gamers who bought the PS2 last gen and/or buy the DS now don't care about console Mario and Zelda.)

 

[Eteric Rice]

so what was the thread where everyone was saying smg would do amazingly in japan?

Now, now. Go easy on us. This is a bit of a surprise for everyone.

If it makes you happy, though.

*eats crow*

 

[avatar299]

Do you think Capcom is a bit worried about their plans to make Monster Hunter 3 for the wii after what is happening with SMG. I mean if SMG is having trouble selling, and the MH3 adience is far more hardcore, is there a market for MH3 on the wii? They would have to change the formula quite a bit for MH3 to please most of the wii base. And that would seriously piss of most of the MH3 fans (especially me... )

I don't think they would have had much trouble selling a good amount of copies, if they made it for PS3, as most of the people buying PS3's are pretty hardcore. Even if they cut some corners in order of keeping the cost down.

Sorry for bringing this up again

Capcom doesn't give a crap. Even if the Wii game bombs( This is assuming 330K sales in 2 weeks is a failure) it still would have done better than a PS3 version, and if worst comes to worst they can downgrade it to a PSP port.

 

[ziran]

I still don't get the freaking out that people are doing right now. This is a slow time for Japan, and the PS3 just got a new color + price drop, it was kind of expected.

I don't think much is changing. The only thing that "may" be changing is Japan's love of minigames. And I mean, I can't blame them. That's all we've been getting for a while.

As for Galaxy, I can't really say what happened there. It could be a number of things. But hopefully, word of mouth will slowly rev it up over time.

If the situation is the same after a few months, then you can celebrate/worry.

But there's no drama in that!

(I agree).

We'll see, I guess. My position is that Nintendo's already made a mistake by not making more efforts of this sort early on -- even if they didn't expect to catapult into the lead. I don't see a lot of effort that they're going to start now -- and if they're only starting today after already seeing SMG start to tank, it's probably too late. But it is still up in the air.

Realistically, I think Nintendo thinks they did make the efforts, or certainly all that they could, profitably. You can say it wasn't enough, and I agree, but without dipping heavily into their warchest more 3rd party support by this time in its life was never going to happen.

At the moment Nintendo is banking on the low installed base of PS3 and its low 3rd party sw sales and by extension the difficulty developers are going to have making money on the system . It's a risky strategy, no doubt about it.

Do you think Capcom is a bit worried about their plans to make Monster Hunter 3 for the wii after what is happening with SMG. I mean if SMG is having trouble selling, and the MH3 adience is far more hardcore, is there a market for MH3 on the wii? They would have to change the formula quite a bit for MH3 to please most of the wii base. And that would seriously piss of most of the MH3 fans (especially me... )

I don't think they would have had much trouble selling a good amount of copies, if they made it for PS3, as most of the people buying PS3's are pretty hardcore. Even if they cut some corners in order of keeping the cost down.

Sorry for bringing this up again

I think Capcom looked at it like this. We should be able to sell at least 500K of a home console MH3 (home console version has historically sold less than the portable), regardless of whether they put it on Wii or PS3. Hardcore gamers bitch and moan the most, but they always buy the games they like on whatever system, so Capcom knows this audience is safe wherever they put the game. The added benefits of Wii are much lower dev costs and a much bigger installed base in Japan and around the world, therefore more potential for profit, and the easier time they would have it porting it to PSP.

Making money is the key here and regardless of personal opinion of Wii, it stands a better chance of delivering on Wii than PS3.

I don't have the numbers in my head, but didn't TP sell quite bad in Japan? And MH is a series which only sells well in Japan. So comparing it with zelda isn't that much more uplifting?

DQS sold nearly 500K, the right 3rd party games can sell on Wii.

 

[Souldriver]

so what was the thread where everyone was saying smg would do amazingly in japan?

There was a thread like that? O-ow, I predict crow eating in the near future. :lol

 

[Eteric Rice]

Anyway, I'm hearing that SMG is selling out in same places in the USA. :O

 

[Oblivion]

Topped off at 534k, compared to Wind Waker's 742k.

Going by Joshua's info, if Galaxy sells at the rate it does compared to TP, it should top out at around 680k. Which is still less than Sunshine, but not too bad, relatively speaking. But uh, yeah.

 

[avatar299]

Going by Joshua's info, if Galaxy sells at the rate it does compared to TP, it should top out at around 680k. Which is still less than Sunshine, but not too bad, relatively speaking. But uh, yeah.

This is including the holidays?

 

[charlequin]

Realistically, I think Nintendo thinks they did make the efforts, or certainly all that they could, profitably. You can say it wasn't enough, and I agree, but without dipping heavily into their warchest more 3rd party support by this time in its life was never going to happen.

This is where I like to hold Nintendo up to Microsoft for comparison. The latter was looking at a far worse position at generation's start than Nintendo, and still managed to put up a significant portion of cash for a few key titles -- each of which has dramatically affected the 360's performance when it has hit. Nintendo does have that warchest -- this would have been exactly the time to dip into it.

I wouldn't expect them to spend as much as MS did, but even a single major (and I mean AAA+ major) title announced at launch and released in 2007, paid for in full -- so we're talking $50m max here, not really a lot for Nintendo -- would have had a pretty major effect on how the system was perceived.

 

[Oblivion]

This is including the holidays?

Tbh, I don't know if the holidays will give Galaxy as big a boost as many people may think. It may be one thing for games released during that period, but it'll be several weeks after Galaxy released, so who knows.

 

[twinturbo2]

Shouldn't there be some new data? PS3 selling more than the Wii, X360 back to 7,000 per week (with one game in the top ten)... it's almost back to normal.

 

[Jiggy]

I'll be buying Galaxy once my TRU gets it in, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't happy that it's bombing in Japan. Hey, if the Sony 3D platformers also fail in the market while (a theoretical) NSMB2 and LittleBigPlanet are successes, I'd get my revival of 2D platforming and then the ball would really get rolling. (Of course, just NSMB1 would be proof enough for any sane company that 2D platforming is an enormously viable market, but Nintendo's not exactly falling in that category of sanity ever since they all but abandoned DS post-2006.)

As for home consoles versus portables, it's reassuring to me that even on an enormous bump week, PS3 barely outsold a midlife PSP. Whatever it takes to get the converged portable/home console future is just excellent by me--any catalyst at all that can force the stubborn hands of Nintendo and Sony. The three home consoles make little room for the likes of 2D platforming, 2D shmups, and other genres, but DS and PSP support all gameplay styles short of peripheral games like Guitar Hero and DDR. If the DS and PSP successors were Nintendo's and Sony's primary systems next gen, I'd be ecstatic--probably not as much as Pureauthor, admittedly, but arguably more so than Dragona and Hcoregamer.

Closing... I kind of hate to say it, but I think I understand the delirious joy Tabris must have felt when he famously believed the tide was turning. Difference being that there are longer trends in favor of portable/2D fans like me, but hey.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Well: that's usually what launch period games are intended to accomplish, right? They sell by virtue of being what's available (bypassing the audience issue), and in doing so build the market for future games. That's why it's such a problem for a system a year or two in to try to shift it's demographics.

I know this goes back to your "as successor to the GBA it didn't have to earn anything" argument, but DS sure turned into an RPG powerhouse for a system where through a year the biggest (only?) RPG was ~90K Naruto RPG 2.

I don't have the numbers in my head, but didn't TP sell quite bad in Japan? And MH is a series which only sells well in Japan. So comparing it with zelda isn't that much more uplifting?

Monster Hunter 2 PS2: 577K
Twilight Princess Wii: 535K
Monster Hunter PS2: 289K
Monster Hunter G PS2: 232K

 

[farnham]

Going by Joshua's info, if Galaxy sells at the rate it does compared to TP, it should top out at around 680k. Which is still less than Sunshine, but not too bad, relatively speaking. But uh, yeah.

700k is far from bad..

Compare that to the top software of the other consoles and it still looks decent.. magnificent actually

 

[Oblivion]

700k is far from bad..

Compare that to the top software of the other consoles and it still looks decent.. magnificent actually

Thing is, we can't just look at it as if it were in a vacuum. 3D Mario may not have been been the powerhouses in Japan that the FFs and DQs are, but for the game that was pegged to be the successor to Mario 64, selling less than the last far less popular entry, well yeah.

Of course, I suppose one could spin this as saying SMS failed to scare off too many Mario fans.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Please elaborate on what you mean by this statement.

I think he's referencing the meme that Capcom traditionally supports doomed systems (Dreamcast, Saturn, Gamecube) however I they broke this tradition with their success of Monster Hunter on the PSP.

 

[farnham]

Thing is, we can't just look at it as if it were in a vacuum. 3D Mario may not have been been the powerhouses in Japan that the FFs and DQs are, but for the game that was pegged to be the successor to Mario 64, selling less than the last far less popular entry, well yeah.

Of course, I suppose one could spin this as saying SMS failed to scare off too many Mario fans.

Same applies to FF though

FF VII almost sold 3.5m

FF X sold about 3 m

FF XII barely cracked 2.5 m..

Im not sure bout FF XIII but I doubt that it will sell even 2 million copies

so yeah..

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

This is where I like to hold Nintendo up to Microsoft for comparison. The latter was looking at a far worse position at generation's start than Nintendo, and still managed to put up a significant portion of cash for a few key titles -- each of which has dramatically affected the 360's performance when it has hit.

Dramatic is as dramatic does. Even in these last 11 weeks where Wii has been selling relatively poorly, it's still sold much more than X360 has in the Blue Dragon-Lost Planet-Idol Master-Armored Core 4-Oblivion-Halo 3-Ace Combat 6 period.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Same applies to FF though

FF VII almost sold 3.5m

FF X sold about 3 m

FF XII barely cracked 2.5 m..

Im not sure bout FF XIII but I doubt that it will sell even 2 million copies

so yeah..

Haven't we seen this pattern with nearly all the big million selling franchises in Japan? Gran Turismo follows this I think. Does DQ?

There always is a bump for when the series makes it's refreshing debut on a new platform however.

 

[x3sphere]

Do you think Capcom is a bit worried about their plans to make Monster Hunter 3 for the wii after what is happening with SMG. I mean if SMG is having trouble selling, and the MH3 adience is far more hardcore, is there a market for MH3 on the wii? They would have to change the formula quite a bit for MH3 to please most of the wii base. And that would seriously piss of most of the MH3 fans (especially me... )

I don't think they would have had much trouble selling a good amount of copies, if they made it for PS3, as most of the people buying PS3's are pretty hardcore. Even if they cut some corners in order of keeping the cost down.

Sorry for bringing this up again

Doubt it. Monster Hunter will sell Wii hardware in Japan for sure, just like it sold PSP hardware.

 

[Moor-Angol]

How much would you expect MH3 will sell on Wii ?

Million seller as PSP titles ? no way out

Around the same as PS2 titles ? bingo!




Japanese are bored about Zelda and Mario ? Maybe...
I read about Wii Sports, the first thought for Nintendo was to use Mario, then they switched to Mii's.
A simple question: if Wii Sports would have used Mario and company instead of Mii's, should it have sold as much as it did ?

Final Fantasy is selling lower and lower, Zelda the same, Mario the same, WE the same... maybe people want more new IP, Monster Hunter, Animal Crossing, Wii Sports show new IP can sell well, just use a good idea and build it on the right platform (MH and AC sold better on handhelds, Wii Sports showed how is easy to create a KA with a simple idea).

You can say "ok, ok, you might be right, but... what about nSMB?"

There are many reasons nSMB sold so well, being the right game on the right system on the right time is the main reason, DS has a huge audience, from children to old people, and if you ask to any japanese a game, he/she will say in the most of case: Suppa Mario Braza!
I think it's not correct to think about nSMB while we are talking about SMG, Mario games on handhelds have always sold more than on consoles since GB introduction, so if someone thinks SMG could have sold around nSMB numbers, he's totally wrong.

Forget SMB 6,1mln, forget nSMB 4,9mln... forget Mario as the biggest system seller for Nintendo, times are changed.
Console market is not more a niche as it was around 10-15 years ago, we are a niche, we are surrounded by casual/non-gamers. They don't buy Mario, they bought Wii Sports and they will buy Wii Fit and Wii Music.

And if i am wrong, why in every videogame forum on the Net, titles as Ouendan, Shenmue, Shadow of the Colossus and Okami have a strong and good reputation, but they didn't sell so much ?

 

[spwolf]

so what was the thread where everyone was saying smg would do amazingly in japan?

just you wait until Wii Fit... we will see who will laugh then... hahahaha (evil, booming laugh).

 

[schuelma]

just you wait until Wii Fit... we will see who will laugh then... hahahaha (evil, booming laugh).

Your posts make me want to take a screwdriver to my brain.

 

[PantherLotus]

Did I miss the second week sales for SMG? What's everyone talking about?

 

[schuelma]

Did I miss the second week sales for SMG? What's everyone talking about?

According to Famitsu it sold about 80K. Not good

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Did I miss the second week sales for SMG? What's everyone talking about?

1.Mario Party DS　242000
2.Musou PS3　176000
3.SMG　78000（335000）
4.Musou360　27000
5.FFTA2　24000（235000）
6.Castlevania PSP　20000
7.Wii Sports　18000（2091000）
8.Nishimura Kyotaro 　16000（112000）
9.Wii Play　15000（1648000）
10.Mario Kart DS　13000（2528000）

New titles
15.Ratchet & Clank Future　11000
18.NBAPS2　8400
20.GRAW2 PS3　8100
....Yosumin　4200
....Just Cause 360　4000
....NBAPS3　3800
....NBAPSP　2600
....Tiger　600
....NBA360　600

Other titles
11.Pokemon MD　13000（1042000）
13.Literatue Collection　12000（91000）
15.Household Diary　10000（277000）
17.Ace Combat 6　8900（75000）
19.Gundam Battle Chronicle　8100（188000）
23.Mario Party 8　6800（884000）
29.Ghost Squad　5600（30000）
30.Ar Tonelico 2　5500（87000）


I reposted all since I think its pretty lost in the thread by now....

 

[*Guaraná]

Same applies to FF though

FF VII almost sold 3.5m

FF X sold about 3 m

FF XII barely cracked 2.5 m..

Im not sure bout FF XIII but I doubt that it will sell even 2 million copies

so yeah..

What about FFVIII and FFIX ?

 

[birdchili]

Iwata actually said a few days ago that they'll be focusing on the core audience more, now that the casuals have had their fill.

Personally, I would have done all of that in reverse (maybe Wii Sports and a big core game that isn't Zelda). But who knows how that would have turned out.

it's pretty hard to argue with how nintendo handled the first year, given that getting a real installed base is generally a top priority during the early days. they've also stolen a huge number of potential mid-cycle sales from the competition, who are chasing the "hardcore" first.

still - wii has a huge image problem amongst the hardcore, and in spite of some "nintendo is forgiven" sentiment in the wake of galaxy's release, there's not much to be really enthusiastic about software-wise in its first year.

if we don't see a few new-ips targeting the "hardcore" post christmas then nintendo is surely on the dangerous path of attracting too many people who won't sustain core software sales going forward.

also: King's Quest (one/two pages ago) should be King Story - a great looking third-party wii fantasy sim/rts/rpg.

 

[Nolan.]

70 something thousand for Smg isn't that bad if we were talking about your average game. The only thing is why are people expecting so much from it in the Japanese holidays. I don't think people will suddenly rush out to boost the numbers.

 

[Rocksteady33]

Topped off at 534k, compared to Wind Waker's 742k. Galaxy is very likely to show a lower gen-over-gen drop compared to Sunshine, thanks to the holiday; but yes, these two titles together are what I consider fairly solid evidence that the classic "Nintendo audience" aren't really all-in on the Wii (or that it's shrunk, and core gamers who bought the PS2 last gen and/or buy the DS now don't care about console Mario and Zelda.)

It's still different circumstances. Especially in Japan, as Wind Waker had a more anime look to it, and was clearly aimed at a Japanese or child like audience. Twilight Princess's art style is entirely directed towards the western market. Not to mention Wind Waker's nice preorder bonus, which probably put some some on-the-fencers over. AND the fact that when it was released, the GameCube already had a pretty solid userbase built around it (nothing great obviously, but it was more then zero that Twilight Princess had to put up.) And let us not forget the declining popularity in the series (Minish Cap anyone?)

 

[Evlar]

Did I miss the second week sales for SMG? What's everyone talking about?

Also PS3 > Wii. Fun times.

 

[PantherLotus]

1. Yeah, that's bad.
2. Now I understand all the hysteria in this thread.
3. It's still unjustified.

 

[Saint10118]

Your posts make me want to take a screwdriver to my brain.

:lol Genius. Now ask yourself if you switched "posts" for "existence" would you still not be lying?

 

[*Guaraná]

Can you guys imagine how many Wii would sell if Nintendo droped the Wii price in the MH3 launch day and launched a silver Wii-Lite version? That’s what happening now wwith the PS3. Quite normal.

 

[Lobster]

1.Mario Party DS　242000
2.Musou PS3　176000
3.SMG　78000(335000)
4.Musou360　27000
5.FFTA2　24000(235000)
6.Castlevania PSP　20000
7.Wii Sports　18000(2091000)
8.Nishimura Kyotaro 　16000(112000)
9.Wii Play　15000(1648000)
10.Mario Kart DS　13000(2528000)

New titles
15.Ratchet & Clank Future　11000
18.NBAPS2　8400
20.GRAW2 PS3　8100
....Yosumin　4200
....Just Cause 360　4000
....NBAPS3　3800
....NBAPSP　2600
....Tiger　600
....NBA360　600

Other titles
11.Pokemon MD　13000(1042000)
13.Literatue Collection　12000(91000)
15.Household Diary　10000(277000)
17.Ace Combat 6　8900(75000)
19.Gundam Battle Chronicle　8100(188000)
23.Mario Party 8　6800(884000)
29.Ghost Squad　5600(30000)
30.Ar Tonelico 2　5500(87000)


I reposted all since I think its pretty lost in the thread by now....

Looks like there are new Wii owners thanks to Galaxy. People bought Galaxy and they also bought Wii Play and Wii Sports. Oh and Ghost Squad is doing fairly well. If it keeps selling 4-5k per week for a while it could hit 50k.

 

[Frillen]

Shouldn't there be some new data? PS3 selling more than the Wii, X360 back to 7,000 per week (with one game in the top ten)... it's almost back to normal.

Is PS3 beating the Wii normal?

 

[ziran]

This is where I like to hold Nintendo up to Microsoft for comparison. The latter was looking at a far worse position at generation's start than Nintendo, and still managed to put up a significant portion of cash for a few key titles -- each of which has dramatically affected the 360's performance when it has hit. Nintendo does have that warchest -- this would have been exactly the time to dip into it.

I wouldn't expect them to spend as much as MS did, but even a single major (and I mean AAA+ major) title announced at launch and released in 2007, paid for in full -- so we're talking $50m max here, not really a lot for Nintendo -- would have had a pretty major effect on how the system was perceived.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, and there's no doubt Wii is lacking in AAA 3rd party content, but then again, we really don't know they didn't try. Obviously Nintendo is a tight company, but they probably went into discussions with most developers but it could've been too big a risk for the 3rd parties. Really, I couldn't see any of them dropping PS3 support for this new, off the wall follow up to GC, and even with incentives there's the probability of a bidding war with Sony, I doubt they'd give up the titles which were associated with their system easily. PS3 was expected to win without question and Playstation was the cause of much of their (Sony and 3rd Party) profits, moving to a new Nintendo home system was always going to take time.

3rd parties also have to think of damaging their IP, and putting major content on a Nintendo home system would've been very risky. I mean, to get Dragon Quest on Wii Nintendo had to develop it themselves! (Genius Sonority, under supervision from Enix and farming out to 8ing). 360 had the advantage of coming after Xbox, which had impressive sw sales for many 3rd parties.


EDIT-

Looks like there are new Wii owners thanks to Galaxy. People bought Galaxy and they also bought Wii Play and Wii Sports. Oh and Ghost Squad is doing fairly well. If it keeps selling 4-5k per week for a while it could hit 50k.

Yeah, the increase in Wii Sports and the other sales is a positive sign for Wii, although it's lower than I expected after Galaxy.