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[SovanJedi]

back to the "japan hates difficult games" stereotype? didn't it used to be the other way around?

I was actually going by the Famitsu review which marked the game down for being too difficult.

I don't think that's the problem. This is not the gamecube audience that's buying the wii right now... Not the majority of them.

TP would have sold just fine on the cube if it had been released in a timley fashion... I think the majority of the wii owners in japan are the DS "touch generation" people... Or as i called them earlier in this thread "Hardcore non-gamers"..

These people are not the same people that bought a gamecube.

Some of the people in japan that bought a wii are regular nintendo fans... those are the people that bought zelda. The rest of them come from the DS pool and they have completley different tastes. It's a good sign for nintendo believe it or not... it suggests that japan see's the wii as being connected to the DS and that's exactly what nintendo hoped would happen.

The situation in america is very different. The DS is popular here, but i think the "touch generation" audience is still in the minority, even on the DS.

I think a larger number of american wii buyers from last months NPD fall into two catagories.. former ps2 owners and former cube owners. That's why the zelda tie ratio was so high... It's a highly regarded traditional game and the traditional gaming audience where the only ones hyped enough about the wii to get in line and beat the rush.

I think wii sports will have attracted a new audience through word of mouth over the last several weeks and by the time decembers NPD numbers come out zelda's tie ration is likley to drop significantly.

That sounds plausible, but it means that Nintendo would have been in a lose-lose situation with the Wii's launch regardless - had Zelda been outselling Wii Sports and Wii Play at an existential rate then it would have meant the system was being picked up only by the hardcore Nintendo fans, which would mean the audiences aren't interchangeable and Nintendo's "Blue ocean" strategy would have failed for the Wii. Harsh!

 

[AniHawk]

Nintendo DS Lite - 396,193
Nintendo Wii - 83,248
PlayStation 3 - 54,371
PlayStation Portable - 36,290
PlayStation 2 - 28,293
Xbox 360 - 18,092
Game Boy Advance SP - 2,900
Game Boy micro - 2,178
Gamecube 1,241
Nintendo DS - 256
Game Boy Advance - 20
Xbox - 5

 

[Furoba]

I kind of expect the Wii's launch software sales to pick up when the userbase gradually grows over time. Almost everyone with a Wii has a DS, so if there is a lot of strong DS software, people might go for that first.

 

[SovanJedi]

D'oh! Very cunning use of the predictions title in the post there Ani.

 

[soundwave05]

The other problem in Japan is most people are getting Wii Sports which is natural because it's the best demonstration of how to use the controller.

Then they're getting Wii Play with their second controller. So they already have 2 games ... I think that's making Zelda a harder sell. It's batting third in the rotation in Japan (4th now with Pokemon BR out).

In North America it's no.1 or no.2.

 

[DefectiveReject]

Nintendo DS Lite - 396,193
Nintendo Wii - 83,248
PlayStation 3 - 54,371
PlayStation Portable - 36,290
PlayStation 2 - 28,293
Xbox 360 - 18,092
Game Boy Advance SP - 2,900
Game Boy micro - 2,178
Gamecube 1,241
Nintendo DS - 256
Game Boy Advance - 20
Xbox - 5

Yeah so the world is round…… and the sun isn’t the centre of the universe?

 

[Taurus]

Nintendo DS Lite - 396,193
Nintendo Wii - 83,248
PlayStation 3 - 54,371
PlayStation Portable - 36,290
PlayStation 2 - 28,293
Xbox 360 - 18,092
Game Boy Advance SP - 2,900
Game Boy micro - 2,178
Gamecube 1,241
Nintendo DS - 256
Game Boy Advance - 20
Xbox - 5

Sooo... Are these final?

Well, compared to the last week:
DS goes up 90k
Wii comes down 1,5k
PS3 goes up 4k
The rest... Who cares?

Final judgement: PS3 is gaining momentum and should be starting it's world domination very, very soon. Nintendo HW is diving. Japan is turning into Sonyland (again). Nintendo going 3rd party Spring 2007 confirmed.

 

[DefectiveReject]

Sooo... Are these final?

Well, compared to the last week:
DS goes up 90k
Wii comes down 1,5k
PS3 goes up 4k
The rest... Who cares?

Final judgement: PS3 is gaining momentum and should be starting it's world domination very, very soon. Nintendo HW is diving. Japan is turning into Sonyland (again). Nintendo going 3rd party Spring 2007 confirmed.

I am a fan of Elton John, George Michael and Pee-Wee Herman.......Who am I?

 

[AniHawk]

Again to make it clear

DS goes up 90k
Wii comes down 1,5k

he was being sarcastic, chief.

 

[Hyoushi]

note: Anihawk just made those numbers up.

 

[Taurus]

Again to make it clear

DS goes up 90k
Wii comes down 1,5k

So? Nobody cares about non-gaming devices!













[/sarcasm] (the earlier post was too) :lol

 

[DefectiveReject]

he was being sarcastic, chief.

Sorry
it wasn't from you so i couldn't tell. [/sarcasm]

 

[Grampasso]

predictions

 

[Taurus]

Soooo, how long til we get the real hw numbers?

(Grrr AniHawk... :lol)

 

[The Innocent X]

Soooo, how long til we get the real hw numbers?

(Grrr AniHawk... :lol)

Give it half an hour and some website will be reporting those as the real numbers!

 

[Bo130]

My prediction:

1. Nintendo DS Lite - 405.425
2. Wii - 97.636
3. PlayStation 3 - 49.667
4. PlayStation 2 - 36.793
5. PlayStation Portable - 31.573
6. Xbox 360 - 11.256
7. Game Boy Advance SP - 2.105
8. Game Boy Advance Micro - 1.726
9. Nintendo DS - 732
10. GameCube - 621
11. Game Boy Advance - 32
12. Xbox - 8

 

[D.Lo]

Give it half an hour and some website will be reporting those as the real numbers!

Nah, they're not dramatic enough. The only time that happened was when the 'prediction' was that the 360 sold 200,000 or something.

 

[ram]

japanese gaming taste is really beyond death. i mean wtf? only shitty pokemans and non games?

 

[Battersea Power Station]

japanese gaming taste is really beyond death. i mean wtf? only shitty pokemans and non games?

Lol, I love it! Is this how entertaining it was for Sony fans when Ninthings went over the edge?

 

[MasterMFauli]

Wow, even that PSP title at #24 beat Blue Dragon and Zelda.

wow, the only thing Sony-fans can be happy about now, is the relatively low sales of Zelda? Oh my...:lol

@topic: Cant wait for hardware-sales....are we already at that time of the year, when NDS sold 300.000 units last year?

 

[Taurus]

japanese gaming taste is really beyond death. i mean wtf? only shitty pokemans and non games?

 

[Souldriver]

Zelda has not even hit 300k yet and it is OUT of the TOp 30

GAF calls it a bomb.

It is bombing hard.

I wish I could just slap every single Japanese Wii/GCN owner and yell at them as to why they are not picking up Zelda... it's the BEST version out there since OOT and yet they don't get it. They just don't get it.

N64 Majoras Mask < 600k
GBA Link to the Past < 400k
GBA Minish Cap < 300k
GCN Wind Waker < 900k
Wii Twilight Princess < 250k

This is a sad day for me. At least Mario, Pokemon D/P and Kirby's performance has me hopeful

Chirst,
Wind Waker launched in one of those last weeks of december when sales are extremely high and the Gamecube had a userbase of more than 1.800.000. In Januari the game very quickly dropped to less than 20.000 a week.
Twighlight Princess did not launch in one of those crazy weeks, and it started on a console with no userbase at all, that seems to have problems (which I think is not well managed form nintendo) to get in stores.

It's not like TP will just stop selling from this day on and won't reach your supermagical all determining barrier of 300k sold.

That it's out of the top 30 doesn't bode well, that's true. But calling it the worst selling Zelda ever when it's only 3 weeks out is just plain stupid.

 

[Souldriver]

japanese gaming taste is really beyond death. i mean wtf? only shitty pokemans and non games?

1. Pokemon Diamond (NDS) - 123.573
2. Pokemon Pearl (NDS) - 97.409
3. Kirby (NDS) - 92.173
4. Fushigi dungeon thingy Shiren (NDS) - 88.242
5. New Super Mario Bros (NDS) - 77.761
6. Love & Berry (NDS) - 72.841
7. Jump Super Stars 2 (NDS) - 71.339
8. Wild Arms (PS2) - 70.476
9. Wii Sports (WII) - 69.923
10. Pokemon Battle Revolution (WII) - 67.607

All non-games people.

 

[MasterMFauli]

There are, generally, two types of games:

1) Immersive Games- These games focus on withdrawing you from the real world to put you in an immersive world. You play these games alone in a dark room. These games focus on graphics, sounds, and other elements (such as extensions to a home theater) to help immerse you. These games tend to be more 'epic'.

2) Supplement Games- These games are not interested in replacing your life, but supplementing it. These games tend to be shorter, easier to use, but more useful. Brain Age is a perfect example of this since the game was not trying to remove you from the real world, it was to help you in the real world (by improving your brain).

You can really see the split in entertainment philosophies of how Sony is fully embracing immersion while Nintendo is embracing supplement gaming. The Wii's channels, like the Forcast Channel and News Channel, are there to supplement your real life. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo came out with a Stock Channel or Banking Channel. Contrast this with the Playstation 3 that is focused on providing cinema experiences from both games and movies.

The trend for Japan is clearly toward supplement gaming. This is why people would rather play Wii-Sports over Zelda or Brain Age over PSP games. Animal Crossing DS did outsell Final Fantasy 12 in Japan after all.

This trend towards supplement gaming in Japan is exactly what Yamauchi predicted years ago.

There is a silver lining to you core gamers: 2d gaming is back. Those NSMB sales are incredible which ought to give us some sequels. Zelda DS could sell gangbusters where Zelda TP could not. 2d gaming > 3d gaming in Japan at the moment (and hopefully the rest of the world soon). <3

Your mistake:

Yes, Sony features "movie-like"-games, but those are NOT immersive.
In fact, games that present themselves like a movie are less immersive. Take your typical J-RPG. No immersion at all, because you are just watching a preset character, a story you cannt change and without deep gameplay.
So, yes, Wii doesnt have many movie-like games...but it has, not only due to its new controller, immersive games, and Zelda is the best example. Metroid Prime 3 will be next ;-)

 

[elostyle]

japanese gaming taste is really beyond death. i mean wtf? only shitty pokemans and non games?

I am waiting for the day that this goes the way of "downgrade".

 

[big_z]

If stores are short on wii i can see zelda drop out of the top 30... or if the game is in short supply. If nintendo ships a massive load of wii for the super happy shopping season in japan zelda will be back.

Wii sports is going to be on the list forever. It's one of those games that you pick up when you have a couple of $$$ lying around. When nintendo unleashes the puppies all hell will break loose.

 

[deadhorse32]

I'm in Europe

I got my hand on Wii (without pre-ordering and with lots of luck)

Zelda is NOWHERE to be found


Maybe Nintendo had a production problem with Zelda or something. I could understand hardware shortage but that kind of software shortage is kinda strange

 

[Pureauthor]

Your mistake:

Yes, Sony features "movie-like"-games, but those are NOT immersive.
In fact, games that present themselves like a movie are less immersive. Take your typical J-RPG. No immersion at all, because you are just watching a preset character, a story you cannt change and without deep gameplay.
So, yes, Wii doesnt have many movie-like games...but it has, not only due to its new controller, immersive games, and Zelda is the best example. Metroid Prime 3 will be next ;-)

No, I think both of you have different meanings of the word 'immersive'.

 

[Phife Dawg]

I'm in Europe

I got my hand on Wii (without pre-ordering and with lots of luck)

Zelda is NOWHERE to be found


Maybe Nintendo had a production problem with Zelda or something. I could understand hardware shortage but that kind of software shortage is kinda strange

I preordered and thus got my copy on launch day but when I was searching the shops for a classic controller the only stuff available were loads of copies of CoD3 and some other games like Cars. Equally the classic controller was nowhere to be found either .
But I got the controller yesterday and it seemed that they got new shipments in, Zelda was taking up a lot of shelf-place-no Wiis in stock though . Maybe try again the next couple of days.

 

[Tempy]

I am waiting for the day that this goes the way of "downgrade".

It won't be a day too soon.

 

[thestopsign]

I propose anyone who calls a game a "non-game" should be banned. This is just getting out of hand. People calling perfectly good games like Pokemon, Kirby, Jump Ultimate Stars, Wild Arms, and Mario. How the hell are any of these games "non-games". It's just a a term that most trolls here on GAF are using to downplay Japanese Nintendo sales.

 

[Sloane]

I propose anyone who calls a game a "non-game" should be banned. This is just getting out of hand.

IAWTP.

 

[geox]

The top 30, nicely formatted and sort of translated.

http://www.dendenstyle.com/games/ra...a-create-top-30-2006-12-11-to-2006.12.17.html

In other news, they have a nice 'Montage' video of Virtua Fighter 5 in HD over at http://gamevideos.com/video/id/8074 the file is 1.5gigs... 1248x702 damn...

 

[charlequin]

Ok, seriously, what the hell is wrong with you guys that you think a 50% tie ratio is a bomb? You're nuts.

Don't you understand how the unimaginably poor sales of Zelda in Japan have already led to the authorization to create a collection of Zelda-themed minigames! Just to punish people!

PEOPLE'S INSANE RETARDED APOCALYPSE THEORIES ARE ALWAYS WELL GROUNDED AND ROOTED IN THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION

FURIOUS ANGER

I propose anyone who calls a game a "non-game" should be banned. This is just getting out of hand. People calling perfectly good games like Pokemon, Kirby, Jump Ultimate Stars, Wild Arms, and Mario. How the hell are any of these games "non-games". It's just a a term that most trolls here on GAF are using to downplay Japanese Nintendo sales.

At this point it's probably more a term that people use to pre-emptively troll the trolls by calling things like Dragon Quest a "non-game." "Shitty" is the new "non-game" for people who want to downplay the DS' success.

 

[MrSardonic]

You don't need Zelda to show japan audience taste is diverging from western taste.

Because we all know that NSMB, AC:WW, Brain Training, Pokemon, etc bombed in US/EU while EBA, Phoenix Wright, Trauma Center, etc sold by the truck load.

I think it's pretty clear why Zelda/Wario and 3rd party Wii titles didn't make the top 30 this week:

- It's Wii launch
- Wii hardware sales are lower than DSL due to short supply
- Wii userbase is lower than DSL, PS2, GBA
- Top 30 sales are much higher at this time of year than normal
- Wii doesn't come with Wii Sports bundled
- Wii owners are just buying ~2 games in the launch window
- Wii Play comes with a controller
- Wii Sports is the game Nintendo are advertising for the console

The real deal will be how Zelda/Wario sells over the long term rather than this month.

 

[Pureauthor]

while EBA, Phoenix Wright, Trauma Center, etc sold by the truck load.

I hurt inside.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Given that Brain Age has been selling ~30k per week and is normally around position 12-15, it's pretty clear that the entire top 30 is higher than usual this week (unless Brain Age magically lost its legs and tanked, which is unlikely) There are very very few weeks where the top 10 starts at 60odd-k.

So assuming Brain Age got a small boost and sold around 35k or so, that makes it likely that Zelda sold around 30k, which would be in line with the 30-40% tie ratio it demonstrated so far assuming the Wii sold 90-100k, which is a reasonable assumption.

 

[Flo_Evans]

DS DS DS!

wtf?! Is the DS domination really all that strange signaling the end of console gaming in japan? Did not the GBA outsell even the mighty PS2? Bussiness as usual or end of an era?

 

[cank stoochie]

where the hell are the hardware numbers?

 

[LOCK]

Given that Brain Age has been selling ~30k per week and is normally around position 12-15, it's pretty clear that the entire top 30 is higher than usual this week (unless Brain Age magically lost its legs and tanked, which is unlikely) There are very very few weeks where the top 10 starts at 60odd-k.

So assuming Brain Age got a small boost and sold around 35k or so, that makes it likely that Zelda sold around 30k, which would be in line with the 30-40% tie ratio it demonstrated so far assuming the Wii sold 90-100k, which is a reasonable assumption.

I've been thinking that the whole time while I read this thread.

Gotta love Gaf and how they over react. :lol

 

[ethelred]

Lol, I love it! Is this how entertaining it was for Sony fans when Ninthings went over the edge?

Yes, I believe so. It's like the N64 meltdown all over again. :lol

 

[Private Hoffman]

Lol, I love it! Is this how entertaining it was for Sony fans when Ninthings went over the edge?

I don't think this is entertaining. I find it disturbing that people pronounce the Japanese games industry dead simply because the top 10 or even top 30 software sales for one week does not suit to their taste.

I feel sorry for whoever feels like this, sorry for them and their ignorance. But hey:

BETTER YOU THAN ME

 

[plagiarize]

Because we all know that NSMB, AC:WW, Brain Training, Pokemon, etc bombed in US/EU while EBA, Phoenix Wright, Trauma Center, etc sold by the truck load.

I think it's pretty clear why Zelda/Wario and 3rd party Wii titles didn't make the top 30 this week:

- It's Wii launch
- Wii hardware sales are lower than DSL due to short supply
- Wii userbase is lower than DSL, PS2, GBA
- Top 30 sales are much higher at this time of year than normal
- Wii doesn't come with Wii Sports bundled
- Wii owners are just buying ~2 games in the launch window
- Wii Play comes with a controller
- Wii Sports is the game Nintendo are advertising for the console

The real deal will be how Zelda/Wario sells over the long term rather than this month.

seriously, last week, i was right there with you... but not any more. zelda fell off the charts. like a rock. it's a shame, but maybe japan just don't like that kind of game much these days. what's the game most similar to it that came out recently?

okami.

and elite beat agents sold rather well in the us, just below reggie's expectations. over 100,000 for a new ip is never bad.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

seriously, last week, i was right there with you... but not any more. zelda fell off the charts. like a rock. it's a shame, but maybe japan just don't like that kind of game much these days. what's the game most similar to it that came out recently?

okami.

and elite beat agents sold rather well in the us, just below reggie's expectations. over 100,000 for a new ip is never bad.

There aren't enough Wii's to play the game on. How could it possibly be on a loaded top thirty list?

 

[ethelred]

and elite beat agents sold rather well in the us, just below reggie's expectations. over 100,000 for a new ip is never bad.

Elite Beat Agents did not sell over 100,000. Not even close.

 

[Pureauthor]

Elite Beat Agents did not sell over 100,000. Not even close.

Reggie said it was at around 120,000. *shrugs*

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Elite Beat Agents did not sell over 100,000. Not even close.

Reggie said it sold roughly 130000.

 

[ethelred]

Reggie said it sold roughly 130000.

Reggie said it was at around 120,000. *shrugs*

Reggie lied.

Nintendo may have shipped that many, but the game did not sell over 100,000.

 

[Pureauthor]

Then that makes no sense. He claimed he was disappointed by those sales (he expected 300,000), so why would he artificially inflate those numbers even more?

*sigh* PR men...

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Reggie lied.

Nintendo may have shipped that many, but the game did not sell over 100,000.

Uh, ok....