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[Pureauthor]

I've said it before, but it bears repeating... until 3rd parties allocate AAA level resources to Wii, they won't be seeing AAA level returns. Honestly, the first 3rd party game I think even qualifies in this area (for JP pubs at least) is probably Monster Hunter 3.

And I think the point here is not that we're not seeing AAA level returns for B/C level software, but that we're seeing F level returns for B/C software.

 

[schuelma]

And I think the point here is not that we're not seeing AAA level returns for B/C level software, but that we're seeing F level returns for B/C software.

Bingo

 

[jarrod]

Well, that depends on what you mean by 'completely forgo', but yes, I do think the publishers have every reason to be wary, because these titles are performing worse on the Wii than on the PS2.

What B/C tier games were doing better year one on PS2 in Japan though? I think there's a bit of revisionist history spreading here, PS2 was generally considered a sales wasteland too it's first year... remember all the Matrix/DQ7 jokes?

 

[Stumpokapow]

And I think the point here is not that we're not seeing AAA level returns for B/C level software, but that we're seeing F level returns for B/C software.

The cavalry arrives!

 

[Core407]

And I think the point here is not that we're not seeing AAA level returns for B/C level software, but that we're seeing F level returns for B/C software.

So basically Xbox 360 owners buy anything and everything, Nintendo Wii owners buy only the AAA products and PS3 owners don't buy anything. :lol

 

[Pureauthor]

The cavalry arrives!

Shit, I'm the cavalry?

Pack it up folks. Our argument's done, the Wii's a great 3rd party success, etc.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Well, that depends on what you mean by 'completely forgo', but yes, I do think the publishers have every reason to be wary, because these titles are performing worse on the Wii than on the PS2.

So what do you suggest 3rd party devs due when the PS2 dries up? Or are you suggesting that they ride the PS2 for another 5 years?

 

[ThanosOTitan]

Once again, ppl are listening to music and watching their anime on their psp,not pirating. pirating a psp slim is a complicated process,much more so than just getting an r4 and throwing some games on it for the DS,yet the DS software sales are huge,thats cause the DS is a gaming system frist,while the psp can be used for most of your multimedia needs. you'd have to be really ignorant to think that 4 million psp users in japan know how to install a custom firmware. they are just too busy doing other things with their psp to be bothered with playing games.

Also Used Games are being sold in Large quantities. no one is buying new PSP games cause Nothing ins being released. Repeat USED GAMES. they do not show up on charts.

 

[Pureauthor]

So what do you suggest 3rd party devs due when the PS2 dries up? Or are you suggesting that they ride the PS2 for another 5 years?

DS.

Or X360, since that's the best software mover on the home console front. Just have to ensure their games can appeal to a western audience.

 

[schuelma]

The cavalry arrives!

What's that supposed to mean?

 

[Core407]

You're all crazy.

 

[jarrod]

And I think the point here is not that we're not seeing AAA level returns for B/C level software, but that we're seeing F level returns for B/C software.

Not all of it... again, outsourced and spinoffy stuff like BHUC or DQ Swords, etc. has put in comparably exceptional figures. What comparable PS2 stuff was pulling in significantly better figures year one really?

 

[Stumpokapow]

What's that supposed to mean?

It means that I'm glad Pureauthor started posting in the thread because I've been repeating myself for several posts now and having someone else saying it is a good thing. It wasn't sarcastic.

What B/C tier games were doing better year one on PS2 in Japan though? I think there's a bit of revisionist history spreading here, PS2 was generally considered a sales wasteland too it's first year... remember all the Matrix/DQ7 jokes?

Eternal Ring - 77k
Kessen - 366k
A-Train - 38k
Fantavision - 175k
Evergrace - 134k
SSX - 35k
The Bouncer - 350k
Bloody Roar 3 - 50k
Okage - 75k
Gallop Racer 5 - 65k
Gungriffon Blaze - 50k
Driving Emotion Type-S - 75k
Eikan wa Kimi ni: Kasshien e no Michi - 35k

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

It means that I'm glad Pureauthor started posting in the thread because I've been repeating myself for several posts now and having someone else saying it is a good thing. It wasn't sarcastic.



Eternal Ring - 77k
Kessen - 366k
A-Train - 38k
Fantavision - 175k
Evergrace - 134k
SSX - 35k
The Bouncer - 350k
Bloody Roar 3 - 50k

I`m....not seeing your point.

 

[davepoobond]

I've said it before, but it bears repeating... until 3rd parties allocate AAA level resources to Wii, they won't be seeing AAA level returns. Honestly, the first 3rd party game I think even qualifies in this area (for JP pubs at least) is probably Monster Hunter 3.

unfortunately its a vicious cycle, because you can't just decide to put in lots of resources if their lower "test" games do shitty.

just because sales are high for WII doesn't mean sales will be high for any AAA game -- and what happens when they do it and it sells like shit? they're out millions of dollars.

 

[Pureauthor]

Not all of it... again, outsourced and spinoffy stuff like BHUC or DQ Swords, etc. has put in comparably exceptional figures. What comparable PS2 stuff was pulling in significantly better figures year one really?

Wait, what the blimey flip? Suddenly DQ:Swords' 500K (in line with that standalone game from before) is 'comparably excellent'?

I'll give you RE:UC, though, it is a 3rd party success, which is good, since Capcom is one of the best developers in the world. But then we look to Namco and Sega and... look, it's an exception.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I`m....not seeing your point.

The point is that 3rd party B-level stuff was doing better on the PS2 back then then 3rd party B-level stuff is doing on the Wii now, so "LOL SHOULDA MADE AAA GAMES" is a canard?

 

[Pureauthor]

I`m....not seeing your point.

His 'point' is that B/C level games on the PS2 put up (Gasp! Shock!) B/C level performance on the PS2.

Which is largely unlike B/C level games on the Wii that put up F level perfomances on the Wii.

 

[ksamedi]

I'm still waiting for an answer stumpokapow.

 

[John Harker]

Man these threads suck these days.

And to some people above:

You cannot say bringing in "new gamers that don't want innovation"
That's like, an oxymoron. If you're new to something, everything and nothing is an innovation to you. Everything is novel, its your first experience, there is no difference in old vs new technology. If Wii brings in a gamer for the first time they aren't "choosing" innovation, they are choosing to be a gamer, that is thus that tech becomes their status quo.

Innovation only applies to the converted/comittied or the established user.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

The point is that 3rd party B-level stuff was doing better on the PS2 back then then 3rd party B-level stuff is doing on the Wii now, so "LOL SHOULDA MADE AAA GAMES" is a canard?

The Bouncer wasn`t a B-Level game by any measure but game quality. It was the biggest title for the system at the time. Ditto Kessen.

edit: The only point I see this proving is that this software got pushed because it was the best the console had to offer at the time.

 

[Oblivion]

I'll concede that it's more important to them, but that's about it.
Not that I don't understand the profound quandary to an extent... I'm a creative writer by hobby, and whenever I meet someone who hates my subject matter and wants to see something more traditional and "realistic" from me, all I can think, "Hey, there are hundreds of thousands of alternatives for you. As for me, I'll write what I want."

But I can't agree that the reasoning carries over to gaming; since it's an interactive medium instead of something more static, I'd say what the gamers want is at least equally important to what the developers want. Certainly nobody hopes for bored people putting in weak efforts on games they don't really want to be a part of, though, can't argue that one.

No, you're 100% right. I was hoping someone would call me on that, but alas. I was just simply making fun of the rationale that some people here have that they'd rather have some of their favorite developers work on something they like at the cost of something that person likes. If I had my way, I'd force Takashi Tezuka to direct 2D Marios and Zeldas for life, but alas..

 

[Pureauthor]

I'm still waiting for an answer stumpokapow.

To this?

You still can't give a reason as to why 5 million people don't buy third party games. I'm open for anything.

The answer: Who cares? They're not selling, that's the whole problem.

 

[ksamedi]

To this?



The answer: Who cares? They're not selling, that's the whole problem.

So the crowd that likes Mario Galaxy doesn't like Nights, or even We Love Golf because it doesn't fit there tastes?

EDIT: Fast edit there but maybe, they don't sell because the market doesn't want them? Maybe third parties should try a little harder.

 

[Pureauthor]

So the crowd that likes Mario Galaxy doesn't like Nights, or even We Love Golf because it doesn't fit there tastes?

Of course not. They're braindead Nintendo cultists.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I'm still waiting for an answer stumpokapow.

I'm still waiting for an answer as to why you're such an off-the-deep-end Nintendo fan that you can't tolerate it when a regular Nintendo fanboy (me) makes level-headed sales analysis about Nintendo products.

You still can't give a reason as to why 5 million people don't buy third party games. I'm open for anything.

Beats me. Quite frankly, I don't care. I've never been normative in my analysis because I think that's a load of garbage. The point is that they aren't. In past consoles, 3rd party software... even shitty 3rd party software... even unmarketed shitty 3rd party software... even on consoles that are doing worse than the Wii... even on consoles that are doing worse than the Wii that followed other consoles that are doing worse than the Wii... did better.

And that's a problem. I don't feel it's a problem when you have an early DS situation where only Nintendo and select third parties are getting good sales and everyone else is getting mediocre-poor sales. I do feel it's a problem when you have a situation like the Wii where only Nintendo and select third parties are getting good sales and everyone else is getting AWFUL-HORRENDOUS sales.

Even relative to its stature as a game, Soul Calibur Legends bombed hard. Same goes for Nights, Chocobo, SSX Blur, Zack and Wiki. Same goes for Castle Shikigami 3 which inexplicably sold better on the 360 than the Wii. This is a problem.

If I had to make a normative analysis as to why, I'd guess it's because the sort of people who are buying the Wii are less frequent game buyers than people who have historically bought many consoles at the same point in the lifespan. But again, you're asking me into a ballpark where I don't play. I prefer descriptive analysis to normative analysis.

 

[jarrod]

Eternal Ring - 77k
Kessen - 366k
A-Train - 38k
Fantavision - 175k
Evergrace - 134k
SSX - 35k
The Bouncer - 350k
Bloody Roar 3 - 50k
Okage - 75k
Gallop Racer 5 - 65k
Gungriffon Blaze - 50k
Driving Emotion Type-S - 75k

Koei did bank early on with PS2 (both Kessen and Shin Musou hit it pretty big)... but the rest? Those sales are pretty sadly Wii-ish, bar The Bouncer which is way more it deserved. :/

Gun Griffon's actually a huge drop compared to what the series was doing on Saturn (~200k for GG1, ~120k for GG2 iirc).

unfortunately its a vicious cycle, because you can't just decide to put in lots of resources if their lower "test" games do shitty.

just because sales are high for WII doesn't mean sales will be high for any AAA game -- and what happens when they do it and it sells like shit? they're out millions of dollars.

Granted, userbase in itself isn't a sign games can move decent units (see: PSP). But it helps, and it's not like the Wii base even holds any conrete pattern here so far... there's been both notable success and failure for 3rd party stuff. Just like basically every other mainstream game platform really.

Besides, AA games tend to sell even in spite of base trends (see again: PSP). I mean, if something like Kingdom Hearts III was suddenly announced for Wii, do you think it would tank? Really?

 

[Frillen]

That's fine. I mean, I'm not disagreeing with it. Still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't have worthwhile third party support and as a consumer, I can't play an excuse on my Wii.

I'm sure others could and would make the argument that most people don't buy third party titles on Nintendo platforms and that's why you don't see the big titles.

Or the argument that Nintendo basically segmented themselves from Sony and MS on purpose to grab the new market that is mainly interested in Ninty products and thus, increasing their sales ten fold.

Ok, so let's look at some of the third-party titles that actually was/are succesfull on the Wii and what they did right. Let's see if we can figure a pattern.

Rayman Raving Rabbids: You can argue that this title sold well because it was a launch title, but that's not the entire truth. The game had hype. It was well hyped and advertised by Ubisoft. It also relied on a semi powerfull brand name, and it worked. + the game was actually good (!). A good amount of effort put into this title.

Red Steel: The first game showcased for the Wii. Sold well mostly because of hype, the fact that it was the first FPS for the system and again, it was advertised well by UbiSoft. A good amount of effort put into this title.

RE4Wii: A great example that Wii owners buy third-party games if they actually HAVE some sort of quality. RE4 was a great game. RE4Wii sold well because of the budget price, it was a fantastic game, Wii controls and the 4-5 extra hours of gameplay. A good amount of effort put into this title.

RE:UC: Fits the casual crowd actually. Light Gun games are extremely easy-to-learn games. Secondly, it was also a great advertised game. Oh, and it was also good. A good amount of effort put into this title.

Dragon Ball 2/3 Wii: Sold percentage wise userbase vs userbase, better on the Wii compared to the PS2. Sold well most because they actually were great games and because of the brand name obviously. A good amount of effort put into this title.


So, what have we learned here? Oh yes, that's right. If you put some decent effort into your Wii games, when it comes to advertisement, hyping it up or by actually make it a great title, there's a pretty big chance that the specific game will have some decent sales as well.

 

[ksamedi]

Of course not. They're braindead Nintendo cultists.

I really don't believe that, even the most braindead Nintendo fanboy loves to have third party games. Besides, there arn't that many Braindead Nintendo fans anyway.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Besides, AA games tend to sell even in spite of base trends (see again: PSP). I mean, if something like Kingdom Hearts III was suddenly announced for Wii, do you think it would tank? Really?

No. It'd sell quite well, I suspect.

Most of the games I buy aren't AAA and quite frankly I would prefer that software of all stripes, including the B/C level, continues being developed.

Rayman Raving Rabbids: You can argue that this title sold well because it was a launch title, but that's not the entire truth. The game had hype. It was well hyped and advertised by Ubisoft. It also relied on a semi powerfull brand name, and it worked. + the game was actually good (!). A good amount of effort put into this title.

Red Steel: The first game showcased for the Wii. Sold well mostly because of hype, the fact that it was the first FPS for the system and again, it was advertised well by UbiSoft. A good amount of effort put into this title.

These both bombed in Japan relative to the other territories, by the way. Guess their sales and I'll post the answer in spoilers:

Red Steel:

Spoiler

forty-five thousand

Rayman Raving Rabbids:

Spoiler

fifteen laughable thousands

If you consider these to be good sales, that's cool... But they're not.

 

[Pureauthor]

I'll see your 'effort' and raise you a 'We Love Golf', "Chocobo Mysterious Dungeon', and "NiGHTS'.

I really don't believe that, even the most braindead Nintendo fanboy loves to have third party games. Besides, there arn't that many Braindead Nintendo fans anyway.

It was a joke, as my smiley indicated. The truth is - I don't know. And I don't care. I care that those games aren't selling. That's all.

 

[Pureauthor]

Rayman Raving Rabbids:

Spoiler

fifteen laughable thousands

Hey, don't be dissing fifteen thousand! That's like... five whole thousands more than ten thousand!

That's a lot of thousands.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

No. It'd sell quite well, I suspect.

Most of the games I buy aren't AAA and quite frankly I would prefer that software of all stripes, including the B/C level, continues being developed.



These both bombed in Japan relative to the other territories, by the way. Guess their sales and I'll post the answer in spoilers:

Red Steel:

Spoiler

forty-five thousand

Rayman Raving Rabbids:

Spoiler

fifteen laughable thousands

If you consider these to be good sales, that's cool... But they're not.

45000 for Red Steel In Japan is good, considering.

 

[Pureauthor]

45000 for Red Steel In Japan is good, considering.

Tracking below the Gamecube is good for PS3 in Japan, considering.

 

[Core407]

Ok, so let's look at some of the third-party titles that actually was/are succesfull on the Wii and what they did right. Let's see if we can figure a pattern.

Rayman Raving Rabbids: You can argue that this title sold well because it was a launch title, but that's not the entire truth. The game had hype. It was well hyped and advertised by Ubisoft. It also relied on a semi powerfull brand name, and it worked. + the game was actually good (!). A good amount of effort put into this title.

Red Steel: The first game showcased for the Wii. Sold well mostly because of hype, the fact that it was the first FPS for the system and again, it was advertised well by UbiSoft. A good amount of effort put into this title.

RE4Wii: A great example that Wii owners buy third-party games if they actually HAVE some sort of quality. RE4 was a great game. RE4Wii sold well because of the budget price, it was a fantastic game, Wii controls and the 4-5 extra hours of gameplay. A good amount of effort put into this title.

RE:UC: Fits the casual crowd actually. Light Gun games are extremely easy-to-learn games. Secondly, it was also a great advertised game. Oh, and it was also good. A good amount of effort put into this title.

Dragon Ball 2/3 Wii: Sold percentage wise userbase vs userbase, better on the Wii compared to the PS2. Sold well most because they actually were great games and because of the brand name obviously. A good amount of effort put into this title.


So, what have we learned here? Oh yes, that's right. If you put some decent effort into your Wii games, when it comes to advertisement, hyping it up or by actually make it a great title, there's a pretty big chance that the specific game will have some decent sales as well.

You're missing my point. My whole argument is that since none of the things you mention to improve third party games is happening, I could care less. If people want third party titles that are AAA or at least AA, they're not going to buy the Wii right now. Just because you figured out the cause of the lack of AAA games, doesn't make me want a Wii.

 

[ksamedi]

I'm still waiting for an answer as to why you're such an off-the-deep-end Nintendo fan that you can't tolerate it when a regular Nintendo fanboy (me) makes level-headed sales analysis about Nintendo products.



Beats me. Quite frankly, I don't care. I've never been normative in my analysis because I think that's a load of garbage. The point is that they aren't. In past consoles, 3rd party software... even shitty 3rd party software... even unmarketed shitty 3rd party software... even on consoles that are doing worse than the Wii... even on consoles that are doing worse than the Wii that followed other consoles that are doing worse than the Wii... did better.

And that's a problem. I don't feel it's a problem when you have an early DS situation where only Nintendo and select third parties are getting good sales and everyone else is getting mediocre-poor sales. I do feel it's a problem when you have a situation like the Wii where only Nintendo and select third parties are getting good sales and everyone else is getting AWFUL-HORRENDOUS sales.

Even relative to its stature as a game, Soul Calibur Legends bombed hard. Same goes for Nights, Chocobo, SSX Blur, Zack and Wiki. Same goes for Castle Shikigami 3 which inexplicably sold better on the 360 than the Wii. This is a problem.

If I had to make a normative analysis as to why, I'd guess it's because the sort of people who are buying the Wii are less frequent game buyers than people who have historically bought many consoles at the same point in the lifespan. But again, you're asking me into a ballpark where I don't play. I prefer descriptive analysis to normative analysis.

Why am I automatically a blind fanboy when I question stuff? I just want to see the logic of people not buying third party software and I don't see how anyone can claim that they should have sold better when they don't even know why they don't sell in the first place. Because of these argumants I have been misunderstood and wrongfully tagged 'Nintendo's answer to spwolf' while I own a PS3, am interested in a PSP and I hated the Gamecube. I just want to take the discussions here to a deeper level and stop debating the userbase but debating what was wrong with the game if that particular game didn't sell. I think I have been misunderstood by many while I actually enjoy most of the posts by those who misunderstood me, including you.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Tracking below the Gamecube is good for PS3 in Japan, considering.

So tell me, what do you think Red Steel would have sold on PS2 in Japan? Come on.

 

[Pureauthor]

So tell me, what do you think Red Steel would have sold on PS2 in Japan? Come on.

Shitty sales are shitty sales. In this particular case, how it would have performed on another system doesn't change that the performance was crap.

But since you ask, I'm guessing 50K.

 

[Stumpokapow]

45000 for Red Steel In Japan is good, considering.

Yeah, it's good considering that the game was culturally insensitive, a genre that Japan didn't like, on a launch system with a small userbase, published by a pub that does poorly in Japan, wasn't really that great, etc, etc, etc

There are two points to be made, though:
1) He held this up as an example of "good" sales, not "good, considering" sales.
2) "Good, considering" is the entire argument I've been making. Yes, you can rationalize EVERY SINGLE BOMB. Zack and Wiki? Niche. We Love Golf? Saturated genre, no marketing. Chocobo? Niche genre, series decline. Games would sell more if they were better. Games would sell more if there was less competition. Games would sell more if they were cheaper.

... but historically people haven't had to do all this.

I went through every first-year PS2 title on Josh's database. There were a few 10k-level bombs, but matching for the quality and profile for the game, the 10k-level bombs were all Simple series-style garbage. The B/C level titles were doing 35-70k. There were a number of 200k+ A-level titles.

I don't want to speak for why this isn't happening on the Wii, but it isn't. On an aggregate basis, Nintendo's success more than makes up for 3rd parties failures in the numbers game. The problem is that this could be very harmful going forward, because 3rd parties care about THEIR numbers, not aggregate numbers.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Shitty sales are shitty sales. In this particular case, how it would have performed on another system doesn't change that the performance was crap.

But since you ask, I'm guessing 50K.

 

[Frillen]

These both bombed in Japan relative to the other territories, by the way. Guess their sales and I'll post the answer in spoilers:

Red Steel:

Spoiler

forty-five thousand

Rayman Raving Rabbids:

Spoiler

fifteen laughable thousands

If you consider these to be good sales, that's cool... But they're not.

I just gave some examples of games that sold well because of various reasons that I mentioned. And the reasons are completely the same for the US and Japan, so Rayman and Red Steel are two examples that fits no matter if we only talk about Japan.

 

[jarrod]

Wait, Chocobo "bombed hard"? It moved almost 50k 1st week... hey Stumpy, how about giving us your PS2 hitlist in terms of 1st week then? :lol

 

[Stumpokapow]

I just want to see the logic of people not buying third party software and I don't see how anyone can claim that they should have sold better when they don't even know why they don't sell in the first place.

I use descriptive analysis, which uses facts and historical comparisons, not emotive and normative analysis. I personally am not concerned much with the "what it ought to do", rather with "what it does relative to what everything has has done"

I think I have been misunderstood by many while I actually enjoy most of the posts by those who misunderstood me, including you.

I enjoy a great number of your posts as well because you do get things right a good percentage of the time and you're clearly spirited. But I think that just like the dearly departed BlindNFan, your preferences in the debate often cloud your ability to do good analysis. Please don't take what I said as an implication that you're as bad as Tabris or tjhooker or any of that crew, because you're not.

Wait, Chocobo "bombed hard"? It moved almost 50k 1st week... hey Stumpy, how about giving us your PS2 hitlist in terms of 1st week then? :lol

Chocobo is more in the "disappointing / Children of Mana" category than the "megabomba / Heroes of Mana" category. The sentence that due to an ambiguous clause included Chocobo with Soul Calibur Legends is incorrect. I meant to list five titles that were disappointing relative to their statures, with Soul Calibur Legends as an example of an exceptionally poor showing, but it ends up reading like a list of five titles that are exceptionally poor.

 

[Pureauthor]

Wait, Chocobo "bombed hard"? It moved almost 50k 1st week... hey Stumpy, how about giving us your PS2 hitlist in terms of 1st week then? :lol

Relative to the precursor? Sure looks like a bomb to me.

 

[jarrod]

Relative to the precursor? Sure looks like a bomb to me.

Really? So how much did Chocobo Dungeon WS sell then?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Yeah, it's good considering that the game was culturally insensitive, a genre that Japan didn't like, on a launch system with a small userbase, published by a pub that does poorly in Japan, wasn't really that great, etc, etc, etc

There are two points to be made, though:
1) He held this up as an example of "good" sales, not "good, considering" sales.
2) "Good, considering" is the entire argument I've been making. Yes, you can rationalize EVERY SINGLE BOMB. Zack and Wiki? Niche. We Love Golf? Saturated genre, no marketing. Chocobo? Niche genre, series decline. Games would sell more if they were better. Games would sell more if there was less competition. Games would sell more if they were cheaper.

... but historically people haven't had to do all this.

I went through every first-year PS2 title on Josh's database. There were a few 10k-level bombs, but matching for the quality and profile for the game, the 10k-level bombs were all Simple series-style garbage. The B/C level titles were doing 35-70k. There were a number of 200k+ A-level titles.

I don't want to speak for why this isn't happening on the Wii, but it isn't. On an aggregate basis, Nintendo's success more than makes up for 3rd parties failures in the numbers game. The problem is that this could be very harmful going forward, because 3rd parties care about THEIR numbers, not aggregate numbers.

The point of me bringing it up is that taking a a genre that Japan didn't like, on a launch system with a small userbase, published by a pub that does poorly in Japan, wasn't really that great, etc, etc, etc would only have netted terrible sales to begin with. So yelling `See! Red Steel bombed in Japan!`` says nothing.

I`m not saying 3rd party devs should look at the Wii and ignore the bombs that have occurred on the system, but saying `Wow, Chocobo bombed, ok, Pull support!`` is ridiculous long term. It`s just like I wouldn't advocate all developers completely pulling out on the PS3 in Japan. Yeah it`s not market leader and yeah high profile titles bomb on the system, but if you have a title that works on the system from a development and sales standpoint, why not go for it? The DS can`t house EVERY title.

 

[PantherLotus]

I went through every first-year PS2 title on Josh's database. There were a few 10k-level bombs, but matching for the quality and profile for the game, the 10k-level bombs were all Simple series-style garbage. The B/C level titles were doing 35-70k. There were a number of 200k+ A-level titles.

I don't want to speak for why this isn't happening on the Wii, but it isn't. On an aggregate basis, Nintendo's success more than makes up for 3rd parties failures in the numbers game. The problem is that this could be very harmful going forward, because 3rd parties care about THEIR numbers, not aggregate numbers.

how about comparing them to PS1 titles in its first year?

 

[ksamedi]

From now on I will try to be more balanced then.

Because descriptive analysis uses facts and historical comparisons, not emotive and normative analysis?

I'm all for that but blaming the Wii userbase for not buying those under performing games is against my logic because of how big the userbase has become. I think third parties are the one to blame for not giving the public what they want.

 

[KINGMOKU]

Man. Same damn thing again in here. Oh well, doesnt matter anyway. Nintendo rules the roost in Japan, and unless third-parties want to become irrelevant in said country, make games that people will buy/like, or go away.

Everyone(Inlcuding myself) can argue until they are blue in the face about third-parties on Wii, but it doesnt matter in the end, becuase they are the market third parties have to deal with, wether they like it or not.

Have your games bomb on the PS3/360 in japan for all I care.

 

[AlternativeUlster]

This is the year for the 360, I feel it.