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[LanceStern]

Nonononono you got it wrong, the rules are like that:

If sales < 600k and console is Wii, result = BOMBA
if sales < 300k and handheld is DS, result = Nintendo third party #{current_year + 1}
if sales > 600k and console
if console is Wii, result = Well did ok I guess but I thought it would do better
else, result = GREAT SUCCESS!!!
if sales > 300k and handheld
if handheld is DS, result = Well did ok i guess but third party sales still shit
else, result = GREAT SUCCESS, DS DOMINATION FINALLY ENDING NON GAMES ARE DEAD

There, you have it, now you can understand the SDF posts.

Almost there.

I said 600k for Zelda because
a) The Wii Sports/and Play titles shouldn't have such a giant gap over it so soon. By the 3rd week they were embarassing the title.
b) The quality of tht title
c) It's a **** AAA big-name franchise.

The rest is pretty good I must admit. I lawled.

But for consoles, 600k is just too high for most games because they won't get off their lazy wallets and buy the games. I'd like for some Wii third party titles to get over 100k. Like 5 or 6 of them. I mean I'm not even asking 300k which would be preferred, but PLEASE AT LEAST GET REASONABLY OVER ONE-HUNDRED THOUSAND WITH A DAMN 1.5 MILLION USERBASE!!!!

 

[Hcoregamer00]

I think the Wii will be the same situation as the DS where only select 3rd party games will do well at first, like S-E titles. Then over time as the user base becomes much bigger other 3rd party games will start selling to a fraction of the install base they can grab the interest of, which will be fine since a fraction of a big install base can pull in some decent numbers.

That is any console really.

When the console comes out only a select few buy the games, then as the userbase increases more people buy the games.

In Nintendo's instance, it just has to sell A LOT of consoles before getting decent 3rd party sales because the hardcore Nintendo fans typically don't buy third party. Just look at the DS or the Wii forum in Gamespot and count how many threads are deticated to 3rd party in comparison to first party.

 

[LanceStern]

Why would they? Most of the non-gamers aren't buying a console to get these other "quality" titles, it's like asking why most PS2 games don't sell 1 million copies because of the 20 million install base, it's because most of the people buying one aren't interested in all the "quality" titles available on the system.

I think the Wii will be the same situation as the DS where only select 3rd party games will do well at first, like S-E titles. Then over time as the user base becomes much bigger other 3rd party games will start selling to a fraction of the install base they can grab the interest of, which will be fine since a fraction of a big install base can pull in some decent numbers.

You know, I realized this as well, but it just hit me that it might be ok for this to happen.

I mean it just hit me now that it might be ok for one third party to do nicely on Wii for a long time, then others come and grab a few 200 - 300k sellers every once and a while.

Because outside of the Wii, where else are they going to find that success?

 

[ziran]

3 things:

1. for the 500k first day sales that were reported, i'm kind of surprised to see MHP not hit at least 900k. Just something I expected.

2. Why are people calling Fire Emblem a "bomb"? This title is completely in line to sell just as well if not better than its counterparts. 70k is pretty good, for that franchise.

AFAIK MHP2 was limited by its shipments. I think it could've ended up higher had there been more supply.

As for FE, I don't think it's bombed. Considering the size of Wii's installed base and the decline the franchise has been facing over the last few instalments, its sales are okay, and certainly expected. Judging by Nintendo's initial shipment (~135k I think) they might be a little disappointed but they won't be surprised.

What circumstances? Wii is selling great and so is Wii Sports/Play, but other titles aren't getting booted out. 100k would NOT be good by any means. It reminds me of the start of Brain Age/Nintendogs/Any-type-of-training phenomenon. If they are going to pick up the budget pricd titles, they shoudl pick up some quality titles too.

I'm on the fence about Zelda. It debuted very small, and is climbing very slowly. It's legs are similar right now to Children of Mana, which got about 150k extra sales thanks to its legs.

I'll take a wait-and-see approach for Zelda. Show me the 600k Nintendo! Or rather, people in Japan who aren't buying the game for God-knows what reason

Surely you can't plead ignorance after witnessing the Japanese weekly sales for the last two years?

Putting it simply, the quality of a game, as defined by you, means nothing to the Japanese market place. Why is this so difficult to grasp?

In other words, think of a game you don't like, and imagine someone asking you the question, why don't you buy it.

Also, all things considered, Zelda is still showing good legs, as is Warioware.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

No, we'd call that erratic sales.

Legs means staying power, not the ability to jump. Sheesh.

blah... nice term I guess

erratic sales can come from many reasons,

*say someone did not ship enough
*say someone did not advertise enough at first
*say word of mouth just kick started hype for a game

Pokemon just spiked up again on the top 10 so I guess it has erratic legs

 

[starship]

Didn't I just say CoM got 150k extra sales BECAUSE OF ITS LEGS. Learn to read man.

And too many of you guys are responding to me at once, I can't answer them all and quote every single insult thrown at me. How about we save it for the NEXT MC topic (2/19 - 2/25) so it can get the pages it deserves?

Whats the relation between you were saying "Wii games don't have legs" and "CoM got 150k extra sales BECAUSE OF ITS LEGS"?
Isn't CoM a DS game?

 

[Souldriver]

I for one welcome our new PSP overlords....


But seriously. Very nice week: PSP doing well for once, a PS2 game, 4 games for DS of which 3 from third parties (OMGWTF!!!1!) and 4 Wii games (which explains the low DS-games number ).
But if I recall correctly there are 2 next-gen consoles who didn't make the list...

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Almost there.

I said 600k for Zelda because
a) The Wii Sports/and Play titles shouldn't have such a giant gap over it so soon. By the 3rd week they were embarassing the title.
b) The quality of tht title
c) It's a **** AAA big-name franchise.

The rest is pretty good I must admit. I lawled.

But for consoles, 600k is just too high for most games because they won't get off their lazy wallets and buy the games. I'd like for some Wii third party titles to get over 100k. Like 5 or 6 of them. I mean I'm not even asking 300k which would be preferred, but PLEASE AT LEAST GET REASONABLY OVER ONE-HUNDRED THOUSAND WITH A DAMN 1.5 MILLION USERBASE!!!!

Fire Emblem's sales should be taching you something here Lance, especially as a Nintendo first-party IP.

 

[LanceStern]

In other words, think of a game you don't like, and imagine someone asking you the question, why don't you buy it.

It's not that they don't like it, it's that they dont' take the time to even try the game.

And even moreso, out of 15 million owners.... 14.8 million of them DON'T like the game? Not even 200k of them can like the games enough to go out and buy it?

This is DS I'm talking of.

 

[schuelma]

Any hints on Wii hardware sales or Wii Sports software sales?

 

[JavyOO7]

I see Naruto doing pretty good in the coming weeks. Fire Emblem... not so much though.

Zelda has hit 400k with a userbase of 1.5M... not bad at all. It's not unreasonable to say it should hit 600k+... but at the same time its also not unreasonable to say it won't hit anywhere near 500k. Some things aren't all black and white. Everyone knows the market that Nintendo wants to go after (non-gaming people), maybe that market isn't just as interested as the hardcore are when it comes to Zelda. And thats okay. We see Twilight Princess as this super awesome game... others, not so much.

I'm confident that the Wii is going to have software sales shoot up when it comes to 3rd party, quicker than we think. And just remember, it won't be thanks to Zelda/Fire Emblem and any other important franchises for the hardcore that have come to Wii. It'll be thanks to Wii Sports / Wii Play and soon to be Wii Brain Training for kids.

 

[Pureauthor]

Pokemon just spiked up again on the top 10 so I guess it has erratic legs

One short, one long. It be going in circles, mate.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

It's not that they don't like it, it's that they dont' take the time to even try the game.

And even moreso, out of 15 million owners.... 14.8 million of them DON'T like the game? Not even 200k of them can like the games enough to go out and buy it?

This is DS I'm talking of.

You can argue the same thing about the PS2 which had even more sales in Japan.

Why did Tales of the Abyss ONLY sell 560,000 in Japan when there are like 23 million PS2's sold?

 

[LanceStern]

Pokemon just spiked up again on the top 10 so I guess it has erratic legs

No it's not that, but Pokemon is a part of the Fab Four.

The Fab Four sell so consistently well that they always hover in or just out of the Top 10. Their sales are CONSISTENT every week, but sometimes enver enough to get into the Top 10.

When the titles above them finally wear off (the actual erractic titles), then our Fab Four with the legs of steel and their consistency show back up in the Top 10

NSMB
ACWW
BA2
Pokemon

 

[JavyOO7]

It's not that they don't like it, it's that they dont' take the time to even try the game.

And even moreso, out of 15 million owners.... 14.8 million of them DON'T like the game? Not even 200k of them can like the games enough to go out and buy it?

This is DS I'm talking of.

Its the nature of the beast. The DS isn't the only handheld/console that has suffered from this fate. PS2...Xbox360...PS1... and console that has sold reasonably well in the past has had games that were supposed to be sure fire sellers and then nothing. Happens all the time.

Okami, as great as everyone tells me the game is, did'nt set the world on fire...

 

[LanceStern]

You can argue the same thing about the PS2 which had even more sales in Japan.

Why did Tales of the Abyss ONLY sell 560,000 in Japan when there are like 23 million PS2's sold?

THAT'S WHAT BAFFLES ME!!!

Naruto will not do good

Starship the realtionship was when I said they don't have legs, you brought up ZeldaTP as an example. I said it's legs remind me of CoM: started smaller than expected, dropped out of the Top 20 quickly but hovered near #28-#33 in the Top 30. CoM got about 150k+ sales after a year of doing this.

Zelda reminds me of CoM's legs

 

[max-pain]

AFAIK MHP2 was limited by its shipments. I think it could've ended up higher had there been more supply.

Is MHP2 sold out?

 

[Masklinn]

And even moreso, out of 15 million owners.... 14.8 million of them DON'T like the game? Not even 200k of them can like the games enough to go out and buy it?

Yes, I don't see the problem here, they're not interested period, that's all there is to it. Just get over it seriously, play the games you like, don't play the games you're not interested in, analyse the number if you want (or stop doing it for the sake of the MC threads), but please, pretty please, stop being an ass, and stop considering that your tastes are absolute rules and should be ****ing followed by everyone else!

 

[Parl]

Almost there.

I said 600k for Zelda because
a) The Wii Sports/and Play titles shouldn't have such a giant gap over it so soon. By the 3rd week they were embarassing the title.
b) The quality of tht title
c) It's a **** AAA big-name franchise.

The rest is pretty good I must admit. I lawled.

But for consoles, 600k is just too high for most games because they won't get off their lazy wallets and buy the games. I'd like for some Wii third party titles to get over 100k. Like 5 or 6 of them. I mean I'm not even asking 300k which would be preferred, but PLEASE AT LEAST GET REASONABLY OVER ONE-HUNDRED THOUSAND WITH A DAMN 1.5 MILLION USERBASE!!!!

Looking at Zelda sales, and looking at Wii Sports sales, who'd actually think that FE were to sell all that good, even with a 1.5 million userbase?

DQS is what shall tip the Wii over towards being less of a casual gamers' system, albeit still being very mass market (aka, majorly casual).

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Its the nature of the beast. The DS isn't the only handheld/console that has suffered from this fate. PS2...Xbox360...PS1... and console that has sold reasonably well in the past has had games that were supposed to be sure fire sellers and then nothing. Happens all the time.

Okami, as great as everyone tells me the game is, did'nt set the world on fire...

Well, one can argue that the sales when they hit "mainstream levels" that it is made of wide variety of demographics thus making it impossible to make a game that sells well.

Unfortunately the 15 million sold doesn't tell you the demographics of it.
500,000 are horny otaku
1.5 million are old ladies
2 million are Elementary/Middle school Girls
1 million are High School Girls that scare the 500,000 otaku
1 million are Polar Bears
.....etc.

You don't think that all Horny Otaku are all alike, and games that appeal to Horny Otaku will have limited appeal to the Old Ladies, Elementary/Middle schoolers, High School Girls, and Polar Bears.

In the end we are all screwed and good games sell like crap.

 

[Error]

as much as I like FE I knew it wasnt going to be a big seller. the series peak was FE4 after that it's been a steady decline.

70k isnt that bad to me, considering the Wii userbase is relative small right now and FE is a series for hardcore gamers.

but hey it sold more than VF5..... ;P

 

[Jokeropia]

Pokemon just spiked up again on the top 10 so I guess it has erratic legs

Pokemon has remained in the top ten for quite a while in the Famitsu charts. (They combine the two versions.)

 

[Parl]

Yeah, but the Polar Bears were all over NSMB, so you're in fantasy world.

 

[Novid]

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME?

750,000?

IN ONE WEEK?

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Yeah, but the Polar Bears were all over NSMB, so you're in fantasy world.

The problem is that more quality games should have sold to the Polar Bear crowd that didn't.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I mean i think 70k for Fire Emblem is shitty too, especially considering how awesome almost every FE game is (this is why I don't celebrate sales or the industry), but actually I don't think it's really bad in terms of the franchise.

It's definately not what I was hoping for, but considering the userbase size, it's apparent that the FE faithful are attempting to pick up Wiis. The Wii is completely owning the GC, but it's true that the userbase of GameCube was much higher than what the Wii is at now.

I'm hoping that the game will have some sort of legs, but knowing FE games, that doesn't really happen. Still with systems unable to be found, there has got to be some FE faithful that have not had the chance to get their hands on a unit... Plus Nintendo is really advertising it.

I'm still disappointed though.

One, they re-used assets from PoR that much is obvious. Heck, it started as a GCN game right? Development budget has to be pretty low for the game. If they meek out 100k+, I'm sure we'll get another down the road and that's what I am personally interested in.

Oh there'll be another FE on consoles. It's going to sell in the US, of that I am certain. FEGC's sales are phenomenal considering when it was released, the genre it is in and the fact it's a relatively new franchise.

US Wii owners are clearly much more niche-inclined, judging from the stellar sales of Trauma Centre Second Opinion. Atlus has got to be doing backflips over the sales.

The real question: WHERE THE HELL IS FIRE EMBLEM DS?

 

[Pureauthor]

as much as I like FE I knew it wasnt going to be a big seller. the series peak was FE4 after that it's been a steady decline.

70k isnt that bad to me, considering the Wii userbase is relative small right now and FE is a series for hardcore gamers.

Hey, it got a bump at Sacred Stones.

 

[Amir0x]

It's definately not what I was hoping for, but considering the userbase size, it's apparent that the FE faithful are attempting to pick up Wiis. The Wii is completely owning the GC, but it's true that the userbase of GameCube was much higher than what the Wii is at now.

I'm hoping that the game will have some sort of legs, but knowing FE games, that doesn't really happen. Still with systems unable to be found, there has got to be some FE faithful that have not had the chance to get their hands on a unit... Plus Nintendo is really advertising it.

I'm still disappointed though.

You can't help but be a bit disappointed, little Fire Emblem steadfast in its jaw-dropping near perfection. It's a fighter, I think it'll walk a bit further. Not exactly "legs", but at least a tiny stroll.

The real question: WHERE THE HELL IS FIRE EMBLEM DS?

I don't even know! I told you, there's a rule. If Amir0x wants it to happen...

 

[JavyOO7]

Well, one can argue that the sales when they hit "mainstream levels" that it is made of wide variety of demographics thus making it impossible to make a game that sells well.

Unfortunately the 15 million sold doesn't tell you the demographics of it.
500,000 are horny otaku
1.5 million are old ladies
2 million are Elementary/Middle school Girls
1 million are High School Girls that scare the 500,000 otaku
1 million are Polar Bears
.....etc.

You don't think that all Horny Otaku are all alike, and games that appeal to Horny Otaku will have limited appeal to the Old Ladies, Elementary/Middle schoolers, High School Girls, and Polar Bears.

In the end we are all screwed and good games sell like crap.

Its all about finding that happy balance. You as a developer create this magnificant game for the DS and through some research you see that there is a market for this game. You release New Super Mario Bros in May of '06 and it ends up selling over 4M and still selling. =p

I believe that a wide variety of people buying your system is only a good thing. Brain Training 2 is about to sell over 4M I believe? Mind you most of them are from folk who have probably never played a game before or whatever, but some of those people came from the other segment of demographics you were mentioning... the pedo bears and the like. XD

But really, there should not be this mythical number that determines success of a game. The first Castlevania that came out for the DS (I'm sorry I forgot its subtitle) sold like crap (I believe) in Japan, but then very surprising sales came in from North America of that year in December (over 220k). Konami decided then that a sequel for that CV would come out.

Any game developer out there would love to have their game (good or bad one) sell over a million copies. Some have unrealistic expectations (isn't Namco the publisher who overshoots their predictions by many hundred thousand K? :lol ), but as long as support keeps coming through the wayside... then its all good. Besides, variety is a good thing.

 

[ziran]

It's not that they don't like it, it's that they dont' take the time to even try the game.

And even moreso, out of 15 million owners.... 14.8 million of them DON'T like the game? Not even 200k of them can like the games enough to go out and buy it?

This is DS I'm talking of.

Generally speaking, I think you're wrong.

I understand your frustration, when a game you like sells less than you think it deserves, it does feel unjust. However, many people really do have different tastes from you. Even if/when they try whatever game you enjoy, for example Zelda TP, they genuinely don't like it.

If there are people out there who haven't played (something like) Zelda who would enjoy it, these sales are shown in the length of time the game keeps selling.

Is MHP2 sold out?

I'm not sure, but the inital shipment was ~650k:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5644385&postcount=489

Which would mean there has been another shipment over the weekend, so I'm just guessing more could've been sold.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

The real question: WHERE THE HELL IS FIRE EMBLEM DS?

Can I get an Amen?

 

[Pureauthor]

I don't even know! I told you, there's a rule. If Amir0x wants it to happen...

Mother 4 for DS in 3D confirmed.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Ouch at no ToD2 I know that I'll start hoping its #11 and it'll be between 20-25 so more bad news for me tomorrow :lol

Nice to see Layton staying up there, I thought that after selling out there won't be a shipment this soon (soon as in soon for a sold out non-1st party DS title :lol ).

Monster Hunter Portable 2 stunning, seems they got a new shipment for the weekend. Sony should be thanking Capcom and asking when is MH3 PS3 coming...but thats what they should do, so they aren't doing that at all, in fact they are probably screwing Capcom not letting them PS3 libraries for online or something like that :lol

 

[gconsole]

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME?

750,000?

IN ONE WEEK?

This is very normal for popular franchise in japan.
Anyway MH2 could destroy Capcom record for the third highest opening week sale. (The champion still be Biohazard 2 and Biohazard 3 at 1.3M and 1.1M for the first week).

 

[JavyOO7]

The real question: WHERE THE HELL IS FIRE EMBLEM DS?

I would not doubt it comes either this year or early next year. I was engrossed to the series ever since I played the NA GBA one. And I liked the GC version alot too. I'm pretty sure Fire Emblem sales in North America should be good, though...

Honestly I just want another Advance Wars for DS thats online!

 

[Pureauthor]

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME?

750,000?

IN ONE WEEK?

Aren't you that 'licking their wounds to the biggest moneyhats' guy?

 

[Taurus]

Can I get an Amen?

Here you go! Amen is the one with guitar, the chick on keyboards is Awa btw.

 

[LanceStern]

Yes, I don't see the problem here, they're not interested period, that's all there is to it. Just get over it seriously, play the games you like, don't play the games you're not interested in, analyse the number if you want (or stop doing it for the sake of the MC threads), but please, pretty please, stop being an ass, and stop considering that your tastes are absolute rules and should be ****ing followed by everyone else!

You're one to freaking talk. If I DON'T agree with you or say something you don't agree with it, you either

a) Call it bs
b) Come up with some stupid sarcastic remark and insult me
c) Call it stupid and wrong.
d) Act like an ass yourself. Every freking MC topic

You do the same thing only in a different context.

 

[Masklinn]

I don't even know! I told you, there's a rule. If Amir0x wants it to happen...

Then you sell your DS RIGHT NOW and you STOP WANTING IT!

You evil bastard, preventing all of us from enjoying portable FE goodness :/

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

THAT'S WHAT BAFFLES ME!!!

It seems if games sold as you expect, tie ratios would be like... 20:1.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

It seems if games sold as you expect, tie ratios would be like... 20:1.

I'm really not sure what LanceStern is looking for. Software/Hardware sales have finally returned to the Super Famicom era in terms of the DS. The Halcyon era has once more come upon Japanese Game Sales!

It's like he's asking for the Second Coming of Christ along with Odin winning Ragnarok rolled into one here. Maybe a little Buddha ascending to Nirvana somewhere too.

 

[Amir0x]

Then you sell your DS RIGHT NOW and you STOP WANTING IT!

You evil bastard, preventing all of us from enjoying portable FE goodness :/

I would, but then I know they WILL announce it and I'd have to re-buy the DS!

And then they'd cancel it, right then and there!

 

[Yamauchi]

I knew that FE wasn't going to sell well. You can see that in my previous posts. 4 Wii games in the top 10 is impressive, though.

 

[Error]

how is 70k not well?

I mean sure I want it to sell a million but lets be realistic here.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

I didn't think FE was going to sell that well. I don't think enough hardcore Nintendo fans have bought the Wii yet in Japan to push sales as high as say, the GC game. I think the game will chug along in the charts though.

Same with Zelda. I can't really explain Wario Ware though, as that has casual appeal.

 

[Masklinn]

You're one to freaking talk. If I DON'T agree with you or say something you don't agree with it, you either

It doesn't only happen when I disagree with you.

Well overall it does indeed, because I usually tell you to shut up when you go on your non-games retardation posts. Yet it doesn't, because I usually am not interested in the games you brand "non-games".

I would, but then I know they WILL announce it and I'd have to re-buy the DS!

And then they'd cancel it, right then and there!

I think we're in a pinch.

Sorry Amir0x, but I fear we'll have to ... terminate ... you

No hard feelings, it's just, you know, that I want FE/DS more than I want you.

 

[Amir0x]

first you have to establish you want it more than me. It is possible, although rare, to cancel the effects of the "Amir0x rule" if it is established that specific people - maybe you! - want something more than I.

Nobody wants Mother 3 in English more than I do, therefore we will never get Mother 3 in English. See? But it is possible that someone like ethelred or Dragona want Fire Emblem equally as much as I do on Wii, so we got it, even though I wanted it too.

This is a possibility on DS, but I want Fire Emblem on DS VERY BADLY, because most of the library does nothing for me. So you see, we must fight.

 

[ethelred]

Nobody wants Mother 3 in English more than I do, therefore we will never get Mother 3 in English. See? But it is possible that someone like ethelred or Dragona want Fire Emblem equally as much as I do on Wii, so we got it, even though I wanted it too.

This is a possibility on DS, but I want Fire Emblem on DS VERY BADLY, because most of the library does nothing for me. So you see, we must fight.

That's it, then.

Let's go outside, right now. I will take you down, bitch.

 

[linsivvi]

Why would they? Most of the non-gamers aren't buying a console to get these other "quality" titles, it's like asking why most PS2 games don't sell 1 million copies because of the 20 million install base, it's because most of the people buying one aren't interested in all the "quality" titles available on the system.

It's more like because most people aren't going to buy a few games a month, and the PS2 had plenty of "quality" titles coming out each month. The truth is, there are plenty of gamers who bought the PS2 just for their favourite franchise, whether it be Tales, FF, Winning Eleven or Musou. Those players would keep playing their favourite games until the next installment comes out. An unfortunate side effect of a dominate console with a few dominate franchises.

 

[Amir0x]

That's it, then.

Let's go outside, right now. I will take you down, bitch.

I just want you to know in advance that I DO take guns to knife fights.