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[Mrbob]

Well since we can actually discuss FF13 exclusitivity, let me add this:

Looking at current PS3 hardware sales, SE has to be completely stupid to make FF13 exclusive for the PS3. The system is now selling under 10K a week in Japan and under 100K a month in USA. I know some Sony France guy said they were talking exclusitivity with SE on the title, but no amount of money in the world can help the fact the PS3 userbase will not be big enough to sustain a high profile release like FF13 in 2008. If the PS3 currently had a 5.5 million userbase in one territory like the X360 has, then I can see SE making the game exclusive as it would guarantee sales. But the PS3 will be lucky to be over 3 million in any territory by the time FF13 is out. Sony needs to start making a committment to 3rd parties by lowering the price of the system, or they shouldn't expect any exclusive games at all.

 

[HolyCheck]

WOW.

Whens the next BIG 360 game out in japan? eternal sonata or something?

 

[AdmiralViscen]

Wow, what a day for Sony.

 

[Xavien]

I don't believe luck play a major part in Nintendo's success with DS (and Wii).

I guess, maybe the ulterior motive behind Iwata's "Expand the Market" Strategy is that Nintendo will grow massively along with the expansion?

With Sony dancing to the tune of Microsoft (Sony is always trying to best Microsoft this generation and not Nintendo) and Microsoft unable to break out of the Hardcore demographic, its placed Nintendo in a perfect position to take most of the market and expand upon it. Weather the market will expand or not (instead of just shifting to handhelds), i guess we'll find out in a few years.

 

[gimz]

caught the late train, man, the gap between Wii and PS3 is strinking!

in before the thread raise to heaven

 

[titiklabingapat]

Market cap only. It's what the market thinks a company is worth. It indirectly incorporates the worth of LPP (land, property, equipment) IPs and the like. this doesn't measure actual worth in accounting terms though the market would obviously have to take accounting valuations into consideration when they are purchasing stock, which should in turn be reflected on a company's market cap. Markets though sometimes see intangible things accountants can't see and companies can be undervalued/overvalued in this way. Nintendo was clearly undervalued for a long time and they still are.

Saitou has the right idea. The real impressive thing here is how Nintendo, with a narrow focus in business has managed to turn its line of business and the flow of all future profits to be the size of a Sony. It was unthinkable even in Nintendo's old heyday in the 80s and early 90s.

Indeed. And what's good for Nintendo is ultimately good for the health of the entire industry since it seems like Nintendo isn't so keen on expanding anywhere else for the medium term.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Weird, innnit?

 

[Deku]

Well since we can actually discuss FF13 exclusitivity, let me add this:

Looking at current PS3 hardware sales, SE has to be completely stupid to make FF13 exclusive for the PS3. The system is now selling under 10K a week in Japan and under 100K a month in USA. I know some Sony France guy said they were talking exclusitivity with SE on the title, but no amount of money in the world can help the fact the PS3 userbase will not be big enough to sustain a high profile release like FF13 in 2008. If the PS3 currently had a 5.5 million userbase in one territory like the X360 has, then I can see SE making the game exclusive as it would guarantee sales. But the PS3 will be lucky to be over 3 million in any territory by the time FF13 is out, in any territory. Sony needs to start making a committment to 3rd parties by lowering the price of the system, or they shouldn't expect any exclusive games at all.

I happen to believe GAF is focusing on the wrong game. It's not FFXIII but FFXIV that we should be looking at. Or put more bluntly, what happens when FFXIII fails to pull in 2 million units in its first run. How SE reacts will be important.

Conjecture about Wii is selling X amount of PS3 so S-E must be quaking in their boots never really get us anywhere. But thinking about the aftermanth of XIII is reasonable and I personally don't think S-E, despite their goodwill and belief in PS3, can withstand such public humiliation if the platform their premiere franchise is on can't deliver eyeballs and thumbs to SE games.

The dream scenario now is that sales will magically pick up in time for FFXIII and all will be well and good, but it could easily be a much less optimistic scenario and I happen to think the best case scenario assumed to be true (which only held true in 1997 with FFVII, a vastly different PlayStation and market conditions) isn't a realistic one altogether.

 

[RiskyChris]

Well since we can actually discuss FF13 exclusitivity, let me add this:

Looking at current PS3 hardware sales, SE has to be completely stupid to make FF13 exclusive for the PS3. The system is now selling under 10K a week in Japan and under 100K a month in USA. I know some Sony France guy said they were talking exclusitivity with SE on the title, but no amount of money in the world can help the fact the PS3 userbase will not be big enough to sustain a high profile release like FF13 in 2008. If the PS3 currently had a 5.5 million userbase in one territory like the X360 has, then I can see SE making the game exclusive as it would guarantee sales. But the PS3 will be lucky to be over 3 million in any territory by the time FF13 is out. Sony needs to start making a committment to 3rd parties by lowering the price of the system, or they shouldn't expect any exclusive games at all.

It makes you wonder, dunnit?

The key here is how much SE has invested in FFXIII as it stands. There is a point where the cost of finishing development, including a port to the 360, would not return the same profits as scrapping development to move to console X.

What I wouldn't give to sit in on an exec meeting at SE...

 

[AdmiralViscen]

**** you Kutaragi. Stupid ass asshole

:lol :lol

Awesome.

 

[sc0la]

Everybody involved in making these threads awesome thank you! (Cheese, JJsloan, vink)

BUT; I have a suggestion, when adding the hardware numbers to the initial post, is it possible to reference the post number in which they are introduced into the thread? it would make it easier to follow a thread which is segmented by its very nature.

Thanks again, keep up the entertaining work

 

[Garcia]

Edit:

:lol

Holy shit that is awesome.

Oh my god ! :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Sir Alemeth]

Keeping FFXIII on the PS3 exclusively would probably be SquareEnix's biggest financial blunder since that terrible movie.

I agree. And to put things in perspective, keeping FF13 on the PS3 exclusively would probably be a bigger financial blunder than if Square had kept FF7 on the N64...that's how bad I think it would be.

 

[SouthernDragon]

I gotta ask, and have mercy on me, please:

How are the PS3 forums doing?

Aww, hell, I'll check it out.

Edit: Seems they know what's up, and they've just stopped arguing.

"man what is this doing here r u a sony fan?"

:x

 

[speedpop]

Man I knew it was coming but it's still a shock. What the **** are Sony going to do.

 

[michaeld]

Are there any Sony fans who are still in denial about the whole situation? I don't see how there could be.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Usually, after these kinds of megaton MC/NPD stuff, something happens that nails another coffin to the PS3. Hopefully this time around, it will be crowns for the Wii and we get a slew of new game announcements in the next two weeks. Good to great ones, not ****ing Pacman Namco crap.

 

[StevieP]

Usually, after these kinds of megaton MC/NPD stuff, something happens that nails another coffin to the PS3. Hopefully this time around, it will be crowns for the Wii and we get a slew of new game announcements in the next two weeks.

Nintendo scheduled their "Gamers' Day" event just in time to crown themselves, it seems.

 

[titiklabingapat]

I just realized that the phrase "nail another coffin to the PS3" doesn't make sense.

 

[mutsu]

Time to update this

 

[BrodiemanTTR]

Usually, after these kinds of megaton MC/NPD stuff, something happens that nails another coffin to the PS3. Hopefully this time around, it will be crowns for the Wii and we get a slew of new game announcements in the next two weeks. Good to great ones, not ****ing Pacman Namco crap.

I keep waiting to see the results of the fact that the Wii is outselling everything in the world not named "DS". I expected to see third parties start clamoring aboard the train earlier this year and it didn't happen. I thought for sure it would be at the Square-Enix Party and it didn't happen. I keep waiting for some third party to come out and say "Well, after looking at our latest sales data and finally realizing that Nintendo has the industry by the balls, we've actually decided to make a half-decent game for the Wii", and, well, I'm still waiting.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

What's a PSP game doing in our Nintendo Top 21?

 

[Tristam]

I keep waiting to see the results of the fact that the Wii is outselling everything in the world not named "DS". I expected to see third parties start clamoring aboard the train earlier this year and it didn't happen. I thought for sure it would be at the Square-Enix Party and it didn't happen. I keep waiting for some third party to come out and say "Well, after looking at our latest sales data and finally realizing that Nintendo has the industry by the balls, we've actually decided to make a half-decent game for the Wii", and, well, I'm still waiting.

Hm? Dewy's Adventure? Zack & Wiki? Rygar? NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams (okay, NiGHTS is iffy)? All of those were announced post sales rape.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

It's not long now, the streams will be crossing soon, mark my words!

I can't believe the PS3 has dropped below 10k, the funny thing is that I asked when do you people expect it to happen in last week's thread :lol

 

[titiklabingapat]

I keep waiting to see the results of the fact that the Wii is outselling everything in the world not named "DS". I expected to see third parties start clamoring aboard the train earlier this year and it didn't happen. I thought for sure it would be at the Square-Enix Party and it didn't happen. I keep waiting for some third party to come out and say "Well, after looking at our latest sales data and finally realizing that Nintendo has the industry by the balls, we've actually decided to make a half-decent game for the Wii", and, well, I'm still waiting.

Actually, they did trickle in, albeit at a rather slow pace. I think the Wii got the most exclusive announcements in the past 4 months than both the 360 and PS3 combined. Most of them suck but you gotta start from somewhere.

It started with crap movie licenses, b-rate developed games and then suddenly, Wii got Nights. Ghost Squad, Dewy's Adventure, Treasure Island Z(which looks fantastic regardless of the iffy name change) and Rygar out of the blue. I say look out for even bigger and more announcements in the coming months.

 

[BrodiemanTTR]

Hm? Dewy's Adventure? Zack & Wiki? Rygar? NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams (okay, NiGHTS is iffy)? All of those were announced post sales rape.

Dewy's Adventure and Zack & Wiki (ugh, terrible name change) both look interesting and fun, but you're joking yourself if you think they're half as important to Konami and Capcom as MGS4 and DMC4 respectively, or any of their "true next-gen" games. The unbelievable level of market dominance the Wii is currently enjoying demands more than Dewy's Adventure. Rygar was a pleasant surprise, as that's actually a legitimate gamer franchise. Who knows, maybe Tecmo will take a dip in Nintendo's money pool while Square-Enix scratches its head at the lackluster sales of Chocobo's ****ing Dungeon and releases FFXIII exclusively on a console with an install base below 5 million.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

When does FFT come out in the US? I want it.

 

[StevieP]

I'll call it right now... Tecmo Bowl is going to Wii (or DS). Not Star Ocean 4, though. Square's still stupified.

 

[ethelred]

I think the thing S-E should be most worried about is the fact that Nintendo recently bought a controlling share in Monolithsoft. Nintendo now essentially has their own accomplished RPG studio.

You know both Nintendo & S-E have got to be thinking that an epic, Xenosaga or Baiten Kaitos styled RPG, with that respected Nintendo polish and (more importantly) a Nintendo advertising budget, released around the same time could make FFXIII irrelavent, or at least steal a lot of it's thunder.

...

...

...

Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha.

 

[felipeko]

I happen to believe GAF is focusing on the wrong game. It's not FFXIII but FFXIV that we should be looking at. Or put more bluntly, what happens when FFXIII fails to pull in 2 million units in its first run. How SE reacts will be important.

Change plataform in the course of generation would make who bought PS3 just for FFXIII very very happy!

 

[titiklabingapat]

Dewy's Adventure and Zack & Wiki (ugh, terrible name change) both look interesting and fun, but you're joking yourself if you think they're half as important to Konami and Capcom as MGS4 and DMC4 respectively, or any of their "true next-gen" games. The unbelievable level of market dominance the Wii is currently enjoying demands more than Dewy's Adventure. Rygar was a pleasant surprise, as that's actually a legitimate gamer franchise. Who knows, maybe Tecmo will take a dip in Nintendo's money pool while Square-Enix scratches its head at the lackluster sales of Chocobo's ****ing Dungeon and releases FFXIII exclusively on a console with an install base below 5 million.

That's the ideal set-up if the established publishers are still running blind about the Wii's success. The fact that it is already happening with Tecmo and the Wii pretty much squashed any qualms I had similar to yours.

Hopefully, Atlus and any of the smaller jrpg publisher gets a breakthrough mainstream success if SE still treats the Wii like shit.

 

[StevieP]

...

...

...

Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha.

It's funny, but it would be funny if Xenosaga IV: FMV Convolution outsells FFXIII, if this 10k/week shit continues.

 

[BrodiemanTTR]

Didn't the Xenosaga's sell pretty well (obviously not at FF levels but hey what does that isn't made by Nintendo)? Do we have a database for software sales that isn't tainted ala ********?

 

[felipeko]

Market cap only. It's what the market thinks a company is worth. It indirectly incorporates the worth of LPP (land, property, equipment) IPs and the like. this doesn't measure actual worth in accounting terms though the market would obviously have to take accounting valuations into consideration when they are purchasing stock, which should in turn be reflected on a company's market cap. Markets though sometimes see intangible things accountants can't see and companies can be undervalued/overvalued in this way. Nintendo was clearly undervalued for a long time and they still are.

Saitou has the right idea. The real impressive thing here is how Nintendo, with a narrow focus in business has managed to turn its line of business and the flow of all future profits to be the size of a Sony. It was unthinkable even in Nintendo's old heyday in the 80s and early 90s.

What?

1991 - Facts and Stats. Nintendo passes Toyota and becomes the most profitable company in Japan and earned 400 million dollars MORE than the big Sony corporation! Nintendo´s profit was sizzling 1,5 million dollars per employee (!) and since they had around 850 employee´s Nintendo earned around 1,2 billion dollars!

http://www.angelfire.com/ne/Gamewarriors/Nhistory.html

 

[Phife Dawg]

Slow week overall. It seems most of us have underestimated BBA Wii, it shows signs of solid legs.

**** you Kutaragi. Stupid ass asshole

I find this funny. In countless threads people go on, bitching about Wii's power. Yet when Sony delivers an absolute powerhouse (and are bleeding money in the process) people whine because it isn't continueing the success of PS2. You can't have PS3 power at Wii price.

I know it may be hard for fans to fathom but Sony won't be the dominating hardware manufacturer this gen-but strong titles will still be released for it, so no need to go all apeshit.
Though the meltdowns are amusing I must say.

That actually applies to Microsoft more then to Sony.

They havnt made a dime off the game biz. People within that company have to be wondering why the hell they ever got into it in the first place.

I'm sure they know why they got into it. To keep Sony from taking over the living room and to broaden the perspective for MS applications. You're streaming your MS codec encoded video from your MS PC to your MS console in the living room.

 

[GhostSeed]

At what point will Sony basically be forced to cut the price. At like 5,000 a week or even less. And is it even going to get that bad before Ninja Gaiden Sigma and Minna no Golf 5 hit this summer.

 

[soundwave05]

I gauruntee Square-Enix will have some monsterous Wii annoucements in the future.

People forget it takes a while to start a project and actually get it to the point where you can show something concrete, and then on top of that S-E I think would at this time rather emphasize games closer to release -- Dragon Quest Swords and FF: Crystal Bearers.

S-E was the first 3rd party to give the Wii any major lovin', and we know they always take to the market leader in Japan like a groupie around a rock star ... Square-Enix will bring it.

The DS got more from S-E early on because it was basically the successor to the more popular GBA, but it wasn't really until last year that we started to see announcements from them that reflected the success the DS was having on market (FF12 RW, DQIX, etc.).

 

[Krowley]

lets say monolith released a great high budget RPG on the wii with a 20 million install base and square released FF13 on the ps3 with about 4 or 5 million.

who would sell more?

I'm actually not sure. FF is a pretty big deal.

 

[StevieP]

lets say monolith released a great high budget RPG on the wii with a 20 million install base and square released FF13 on the ps3 with about 4 or 5 million.

who would sell more?

I'm actually not sure. FF is a pretty big deal.

That's why SquareEnix has like 66 of them being made right now.

I gauruntee Square-Enix will have some monsterous Wii annoucements in the future.

Chris Michael (God bless his soul) says that Kitase says no. Not sure if I agree, but perhaps somebody who knows a bit more about Square can tell me why I shouldn't agree.

 

[BrodiemanTTR]

I gauruntee Square-Enix will have some monsterous Wii annoucements in the future.

Don't bet on it.

 

[zallaaa]

5. PS3 - 8,839 | 12,974 | 425,895 | 883,453

that's pretty bad... new big games and price cut MUST come quickly or the situation could become congenital...

 

[DCharlie]

just to reiterate - a lot of places have already slashed 5000 - 10,000 yen off the price of a PS3.

The fundamental issue is that there aren't enough Japanese centric games on the machine right now. The machine is as western as the X360 right now to the Japanese.

 

[maynerd]

someone needs to edit this with him holding a wiiimote in his hand or something...

 

[lupin23rd]

I agree. And to put things in perspective, keeping FF13 on the PS3 exclusively would probably be a bigger financial blunder than if Square had kept FF7 on the N64...that's how bad I think it would be

Wow :lol

m

 

[Deku]

What?

http://www.angelfire.com/ne/Gamewarriors/Nhistory.html

Profitability =! market cap. I guess you didn't read my post explaining what market capitalization is. Hint: It's on the same post you quoted.

Edit: Explaining this to you would require me to explain to you what a perpetuity is. Imagine getting 1 dollar every year for the rest of your life and you have a piece of paper telling you that you have a god given right to receive this 1 dollar. If I offer to buy the piece of paper from you, what price should I pay?

Same concept with market caps, except investors view a stream of future profits as try to value the expected peaks and valleys of of all future profitability into one current price known as the stock price. stock price x all stocks held = market cap.

congratulations you've just earned your diploma.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Indeed, Sony's Market Cap stands at 56Billion Dollars... Nintendo is nearing 50 Billion (and surely this Fiscal Year will push their market cap up significantly with their excellent sales), Nintendo is close to becoming bigger then Sony.

Crazy World eh?

Indeed, Take a look at this:

Nintendo (NTDOY)
http://new.quote.com/stocks/overview.action?s=NTDOY

Sony (SNE), Whole Company:
http://new.quote.com/stocks/overview.action?sym=SNE

Check Market Cap on both Companies, not that far apart...

For comparision (just to show how much bigger Microsoft is, compared to the other two):

Microsoft (MSFT), whole company:
http://new.quote.com/stocks/overview.action?sym=MSFT

:O.

I knew that MS was valued at about 300 billion, and sony was about 50 billion, but when the HELL did Nintendo get to be about 50 billion?

 

[.dmc]

I keep waiting to see the results of the fact that the Wii is outselling everything in the world not named "DS". I expected to see third parties start clamoring aboard the train earlier this year and it didn't happen. I thought for sure it would be at the Square-Enix Party and it didn't happen. I keep waiting for some third party to come out and say "Well, after looking at our latest sales data and finally realizing that Nintendo has the industry by the balls, we've actually decided to make a half-decent game for the Wii", and, well, I'm still waiting.

We've started seeing it now, we'll see a lot more of it at neoE3 + we'll see a shitton of it next year. People forget that Wii-dominance only started to become clear around late Feb-early March. Prior to that everyone was assuming that PS3 sales were just about to pick up and Wii sales were going to take a typically-Nintendo post-xmas drop. So that leaves about two months to decide that Wii is the right train to board & prepare accordingly. You can be damn sure that 3rd parties are furiously trying to figure out what they can do to correct course but you can't be surprised that they aren't ready to announce much yet.

 

[FitzOfRage]

:O.

I knew that MS was valued at about 300 billion, and sony was about 50 billion, but when the HELL did Nintendo get to be about 50 billion?

Well you have to factor in their ownership of Japan in their valuation nowadays.

 

[BrodiemanTTR]

We've started seeing it now, we'll see a lot more of it at neoE3 + we'll see a shitton of it next year.

As much as I would love to believe that, I have the feeling that what we'll be seeing is a lot of "[popular franchise] Legends/Swords/Adventures/Gaiden/Outbreak/Chronicles/etc." and more EA Playground and Namco Pacman Cash-In bullcrap while the main series games in those franchises continue to go to 360 and PS3.

 

[Vinnk]

Square Exec #1: Sir, Wii is outselling the PS3 6:1!

Square Exec #2: It's ok, we have our best franchise coming out for it!

Square Exec #1: We do?!

Square Exec #2: Sure, kids love that Chocobo thing!

Square Exec #1: Err.. our biggest franchise is Final Fantasy.

Square Exec #2: Well.. where did we put that?

Exec 1 and 2: Oh shit...