As much as I would love to believe that, I have the feeling that what we'll be seeing is a lot of "[popular franchise] Legends/Swords/Adventures/Gaiden/Outbreak/Chronicles/etc." and more EA Playground and Namco Pacman Cash-In bullcrap while the main series games in those franchises continue to go to 360 and PS3.
I happen to believe GAF is focusing on the wrong game. It's not FFXIII but FFXIV that we should be looking at. Or put more bluntly, what happens when FFXIII fails to pull in 2 million units in its first run. How SE reacts will be important.
XIII will be staying on the PS3, and unless it completely bombs, XIV will be PS3 as well.
Everytime I read a thread like this I think of Dilbert. Pointy-haired boss (Wada) comes running in and tells Dilbert (Kitase) that the Wii is hot and FF needs to moved/ported/redone/whatever ASAP. Dilbert basically ignores him since it's a ridiculous idea in the first place, and pointy-haired boss gets sidetracked on something else, etc...
Pointy-haired boss doesn't call the shots at this point (as much as he'd like to think he does).
Square will bring out a number of titles on Wii (as well as DS, obviously) and make a ton of cash on smaller budget projects that do well. Maybe Haereisis (sp?) will be a Wii game too. Likely DQX in the first ever case of the big two projects splitting platforms. Maybe even KH3.
Square said a while back they wanted to keep things even this generation. Mainline FF ain't going anywhere this generation, I say. And I will do one better. I will say that FFVII Remake comes out BEFORE XIII does, which in itself may cause the universe to shatter, but if not will ensure a healthy audience for XIII and Versus. By then Sony might have another game out on the shelf as well.
Off-topic somewhat, Star Ocean 4 will be PS3 as well, unless it's taking over Infinitie Undiscovery - but in that case it's probably multi-platform.
Some devs, perhaps many will find their niche on the PS3/360. But I there is certainly a shift towards recognizing the fundamental changes in the market.
The Wii's biggest advantage was the DS. Conventional wisdom has always assumed that all a hardware manufacturer, especially one like Nintendo with a lot of baggage, has to do was put a lot of hardware in consumer's hands and the 3rd parties will follow. This is what Sega was not able to get over after Saturn. The problem with that is most businesses look for a track record and 1 good quarter, 1 good year and 1 platform usually isn't good enough to sway the decision makers. Nintendo had the benefit of going through a year of severe dryspell for third parties with the DS and in light of the great success the company is enjoying, third parties who felt they left money on the table with the DS are now much more eager to not only work on the DS with exclusive content but invest on the Wii in hopes of cashing in before the rush.
EA wouldn't be so bullish on Nintendo had they not seen other 3rd parties making a good run on the DS leaving EA in the dust. Their games will make a huge impact in terms of shaping public perception. Tiger Woods, for all its flaws as a quick cash in, has probably done the Wii a huge favour. The TV ads certainly didn't hurt either.
lupin23rd said:
XIII will be staying on the PS3, and unless it completely bombs, XIV will be PS3 as well.
My point was kind of pointing to the fact that XIII might be a bomba on a FF scale, which of course wouldn't be considered a bomba for a normal game.
And I'm not sure as you that S-E can withstand such a pounding and keep XIV on the same platform, and that's with me assuming XIII stays PS3 exclusive. It might even go 360/PC in which case, Sony has already lost SE's trust.
Hell if I know. Why would Square-Enix essentially announce Star Ocean 4, a game so early in development that it doesn't even really exist yet and a JRPG franchise similar to the Tales games, for the dead-in-Japan 360 and the dying-everywhere PS3 and then announce Chocobo's Magical F*ck-You for the sold-out around the world but especially in Japan Wii? Why would Namco announce Beautiful Katamari, a game that defines niche and quirk, for a $600 HD multimedia device and a console most buy for its online shooters?
Anyone who buys a console for only one or two games deserves what they get, as far as I'm concerned. When you buy a console, you should feel like you're getting the most out of it. I didn't with my GameCube purchase (though it was pretty close, Nintendo tried valiantly to cover all my bases) and I have no intentions of repeating that mistake with a $700 CDN hole in my pocket instead of a $250 CDN one like last time.
just to reiterate - a lot of places have already slashed 5000 - 10,000 yen off the price of a PS3.
The fundamental issue is that there aren't enough Japanese centric games on the machine right now. The machine is as western as the X360 right now to the Japanese.
Anyone who buys a console for only one or two games deserves what they get, as far as I'm concerned. When you buy a console, you should feel like you're getting the most out of it. I didn't with my GameCube purchase (though it was pretty close, Nintendo tried valiantly to cover all my bases) and I have no intentions of repeating that mistake with a $700 CDN hole in my pocket instead of a $250 CDN one like last time.
Oddly enough, the last two consoles I bought before my PS3 were GameCube and Dreamcast, two apparent failures and yet I was more than happy. I guess I'm always going for the underdog
Hell if I know. Why would Square-Enix essentially announce Star Ocean 4, a game so early in development that it doesn't even really exist yet and a JRPG franchise similar to the Tales games, for the dead-in-Japan 360 and the dying-everywhere PS3 and then announce Chocobo's Magical F*ck-You for the sold-out around the world but especially in Japan Wii? Why would Namco announce Beautiful Katamari, a game that defines niche and quirk, for a $600 HD multimedia device and a console most buy for its online shooters?
I'm bitter too but let them have their chance. I say if, in six months and E3 has passed and there is still no significant shift in terms of Wii support for the Wii, then yes, hang them high and let them die.
Also, didn't Namco announced Katamari for the Wii as well. The later release date kinda tells me that they initially planned to only support the 360 and the PS3 but decided at the last minute to announce a Wii version.
Hell if I know. Why would Square-Enix essentially announce Star Ocean 4, a game so early in development that it doesn't even really exist yet and a JRPG franchise similar to the Tales games, for the dead-in-Japan 360 and the dying-everywhere PS3 and then announce Chocobo's Magical F*ck-You for the sold-out around the world but especially in Japan Wii?
Yeah i really did expect star ocean to be a wii game...
I think square might be a problem but i think most other first party's will get with the program.
One good thing square did was announce that CC was more of a single player game with a more mature style. That might be their short term wii strategy... To turn crystal chronicles into a mainline brand and a major singleplayer franchise.
Square has FF13 out there on a limb and they're probably beyond the point of no return. They might be afraid that announcing expaned wii support before it releases will weaken the ps3 even more and ultimatley hurt whatever sales the game will generate.
Most other 3rd party's aren't in the exact same position. They have more flexibility than square because their franchises don't have such an earth shattering effect on console wars. Like if capcom announces a bunch of wii games, it's not gonna make that much difference for DMC... If square signals that the wii is their main console, FF13 could be in even greater danger.
just to reiterate - a lot of places have already slashed 5000 - 10,000 yen off the price of a PS3.
The fundamental issue is that there aren't enough Japanese centric games on the machine right now. The machine is as western as the X360 right now to the Japanese.
I also pointed out the relatively lower PS3 prices in Japan in several threads but they invariably get lost in the PS3 price cut is the panacea hype train that sweeps every thread.
That said has their gamer's day left you with deep disillusionment about their Japanese situation this year? I mean I know the audience was mainly North America and they showed some pretty stuff, but I don't think any of those games will sell in Japan.
BrodiemanTTRWhy would Square-Enix essentially announce Star Ocean 4, a game so early in development that it doesn't even really exist yet
It made sense in context, 'here are remakes of SO 1&2; we're making an SO4 but we're not ready to announce details'.
..and a JRPG franchise similar to the Tales games, for the dead-in-Japan 360 and the dying-everywhere PS3 and then announce Chocobo's Magical F*ck-You for the sold-out around the world but especially in Japan Wii?
Last Remnant is part of their move away from favoring a single console & significant in that it's a concerted effort to woo the international hardcore market. Chocobo, even if it isn't a major effort, is a sign that they're happy to spread the FF brand further on Nintendo consoles as well.
Why would Namco announce Beautiful Katamari, a game that defines niche and quirk, for a $600 HD multimedia device and a console most buy for its online shooters?
The producer of the game has also indicated that they're working on the Wii version + haven't decided how it will control yet.
..I mean, we're all waiting for more major announcements for hardcore-oriented franchises on Wii but it doesn't make too much sense to bitch about every announcement that isn't set for Wii. It'll take time. Tecmo showing off Ninja Gaiden DS + announcing Rygar for Wii and the SC:Legends announcement show that 3rd parties are warming up to the idea that they can push their main franchise on these 'blue ocean' platforms. Expect more and more announcements as the year progesses you know?
Okay, yes it seems laughable, and it is pretty highly unlikely. There's no way Iwata would risk pissing off S-E like that if he doesn't have to. But the fact remains it's something that can be done if the situation warrants it. It ensures that Sony will continue to support the Wii with quality software.
And while I can understand why one wouldn't have much confidence in Monolithsoft, there are a few things to remember.
Matsuno is working with Nintendo now.
Monolithsoft's games have gotten better, with Xenosaga III being the best of the series, and BKO being a major improvement over the original.
They've always got Miyamoto there to throw over tables and make people feel bad.
The Nintendo brand is rising in popularity, the Final Fantasy brand has been waning, and is getting saturated with all the remakes & ports.
Neither of these games is likely to see the light of day before 2008, by which point the Wii's install base should be 4 or 5 times the PS3's.
So while it's unlikely, it's not inconceivable for a Nintendo/Monolithsoft developed RPG to outsell FFXIII. And there will probably be such a thing eventually, but I doubt Nintendo will position it opposite FFXIII. They like S-E now.
Well, unless Kitase decides to get uppity and Iwata has to bring his pimp hand out.
lupin23rd said:
XIII will be staying on the PS3, and unless it completely bombs, XIV will be PS3 as well.
Honestly, I agree with you. At this point, it would be way, way too much of a PR nightmare for them to really consider moving it. I just think that, financially, it's not going to play out for them very well, but I'm sure they've accepted that and moved on.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was no FFXIV at all this generation, if they just kept doing FNC spinoffs to different platforms to keep things fair and balanced.
..I mean, we're all waiting for more major announcements for hardcore-oriented franchises on Wii but it doesn't make too much sense to bitch about every announcement that isn't set for Wii. It'll take time. Tecmo showing off Ninja Gaiden DS + announcing Rygar for Wii and the SC:Legends announcement show that 3rd parties are warming up to the idea that they can push their main franchise on these 'blue ocean' platforms. Expect more and more announcements as the year progesses you know?
Forgive me if I remain somewhat cold on Soul Calibur Legends until I'm shown something that proves that it's anything other than some garbage spinoff Namco handed off to one of their F-teams in order to display some token Wii support alongside Pacman and Tamagotchi. Namco's recent history with Nintendo platforms (Tales of the Tempest says "Hello! I suck!") has me less than enthused.
True, but we know Mistwalker isn't adverse to working with Nintendo, if ASH is any proof. Of course, we haven't actually seen ASH in, what, a year almost? But still....
BrodiemanTTR said:
Has there ever been any solid evidence that the Nintendo/Matsuno relationship extended beyond Nintendo trotting him out for the one Wii PR video?
I believe there was a comment by Miyamoto at one point, but no concrete proof, no. But he is a free agent right now, and it's not like Nintendo couldn't afford him. Whether or not they'd be willing to spend the money is something else entirely.
XIII will be staying on the PS3, and unless it completely bombs, XIV will be PS3 as well.
Everytime I read a thread like this I think of Dilbert. Pointy-haired boss (Wada) comes running in and tells Dilbert (Kitase) that the Wii is hot and FF needs to moved/ported/redone/whatever ASAP. Dilbert basically ignores him since it's a ridiculous idea in the first place, and pointy-haired boss gets sidetracked on something else, etc...
Pointy-haired boss doesn't call the shots at this point (as much as he'd like to think he does).
Yeah.... because pissing off the shareholders by hemorrhaging funds with projects that had no hope of return-on-investment really did wonders for Hironobu Sakaguchi's career at Square.
Kitase can say all he wants, but if he doesn't bow to the shareholders... well, Square Enix isn't strapped for talent.
As much as I would love to believe that, I have the feeling that what we'll be seeing is a lot of "[popular franchise] Legends/Swords/Adventures/Gaiden/Outbreak/Chronicles/etc." and more EA Playground and Namco Pacman Cash-In bullcrap while the main series games in those franchises continue to go to 360 and PS3.
Well we know off the bat, realistically, you can't put the same sku on the Wii as the PS3/360. Even if you give them the same name, you have to make a lot of fundemental changes. So I think in the long run it could start to become an issue of semantics.
I think there will be lots of debates on what the "main" game is in the future, and most people will define it in whateverr way makes their version of choice seem like the "main" one.
Certainly if [popular franchise] Legends/Swords/Adventures/Gaiden/Outbreak/Chronicles/etc. manages to outsell popular franchise] 5 to 1, it raises questions as to which game is really the main one.
Yeah.... because pissing off the shareholders by hemorrhaging funds with projects that had no hope of return-on-investment really did wonders for Hironobu Sakaguchi's career at Square.
Kitase can say all he wants, but if he doesn't bow to the shareholders... well, Square Enix isn't strapped for talent.
It wouldn't have to come to that level of individual staff tastes. The public humiliation of a big budget Final Fantasy title underperforming would be too much for management. Losing face would be huge. Probably on the same scale as TSW tanking.
It may have been why Horii eschewed the problem altogether and put DQ on DS, the one sure sales winner.
Well, it is kinda weird that they haven't shown anything new about FFXIII all this time. It's probably going to be delayed for quite a while at the very least, possibly into 2009 in hopes of a modest increase in the PS3 install base. Has there been any kind of precedent for something like that? A big game being delayed on a platform struggling to get it's momentum going?
Square Exec #1: Sir, Wii is outselling the PS3 6:1!
Square Exec #2: It's ok, we have our best franchise coming out for it!
Square Exec #1: We do?!
Square Exec #2: Sure, kids love that Chocobo thing!
Square Exec #1: Err.. our biggest franchise is Final Fantasy.
Square Exec #2: Well.. where did we put that?
Square Exec #1: PS3, but wait a minute.. why put it out for Wii? PS2 sold 20.5 millions, Wii is only at 2.5. Isnt it more profitable to put it out for PS2 then?
Square Exec #2: You're right! Here is a fat raise for your good work.
Yes, im the first person that uses "fixed". Its getting out of control if people copy me! Heeelp!. Anyway, you're alittle to late for that. It got out of controll hundres of posts ago.
You're right, let's keep on making games for the NES. Lower dev costs and a huge audience!
Look, you were trying to make a cute comparison, I guess to attempt to explain away how the PS3 Japanese failure of Dreamcast magnitude shouldn't affect the upcoming third party slate. It didn't work out. Just walk away.
Man that would be a dream come true, seriously! NES is my favorite system so if you can make that happend i will personaly call you and thank you.
Segata Sanshiro said:
Look, you were trying to make a cute comparison, I guess to attempt to explain away how the PS3 Japanese failure of Dreamcast magnitude shouldn't affect the upcoming third party slate. It didn't work out. Just walk away.
What do i know now? Ok, we'll let you go with a warning this time, but remember it for the next time to not take me so serious when i use "" so its no problem, ok? And why do you come with a personal attack at me because i made a console joke? My point was that, should people make games for Wii just because it have a bigger install base than PS3? Then why not make it for PS2 or DS instead? Both got bigger install base Oh, and Final Fantasy is out for basicly every system. I should have wrote that in the quote instead of just PS3.
Forgive me if I remain somewhat cold on Soul Calibur Legends until I'm shown something that proves that it's anything other than some garbage spinoff Namco handed off to one of their F-teams in order to display some token Wii support alongside Pacman and Tamagotchi. Namco's recent history with Nintendo platforms (Tales of the Tempest says "Hello! I suck!") has me less than enthused.
Has there ever been any solid evidence that the Nintendo/Matsuno relationship extended beyond Nintendo trotting him out for the one Wii PR video?
