Support NeoGAF

[Lightning]

The DS has helped the Zelda's franchise to not sink again. For me it's the best news of the year, because after TP's disappointed sales in Japan, I was seriously worried.

Yeah, the funny thing is that outside of Japan Twilight Princess was a big hit and is selling really well. I personally loved the game, although I got it for the Gamecube.

 

[Error]

PH is still selling nicely. A little TOO nicely, some might say.

Japan shunned matoor Zelda, time for more kiddy Zelda (I approve)

 

[Hwang Seong-Gyeong]

When is PS3 expecting it's Minna no Bump? Next week?

Is that when the next Gundam game is coming?

 

[jarrod]

Numbers seem good for DQ: S, but I was expecting 400k in the first week.

Didn't it only ship 350k though?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Didn't it only ship 350k though?

Oblivion saw Man of Le Mancha and really took it to heart.

 

[jimbo]

the only ones that should be crying are each and every one of you that can't even spell Dynasty Warriors correctly

:lol Perfect.

 

[Innotech]

Its the cel shading. thats seriously the selling point for Zelda in Japan now. I have to say I definitely approve of another Zelda in that direction. In fact, Im begging for another one.
Holy shit @ Wii/DQS sales. I underestimated the Wii by about 15k. Square, you better make FFCC2 a really damned good game.

 

[ksamedi]

Its the cel shading. thats seriously the selling point for Zelda in Japan now. I have to say I definitely approve of another Zelda in that direction. In fact, Im begging for another one.
Holy shit @ Wii/DQS sales. I underestimated the Wii by about 15k. Square, you better make FFCC2 a really damned good game.

I dont think so, i think its the combination of making it accesible to new gamers with the simple touch controls and yet still keeping it true to Zelda for the hardcore gamers. The touch sceen also makes it feel new and fresh again (although this is what i heard since i never player it). The same thing happened to Mario, dont be surprised if Zelda PH sells 3 million when all is said and done.

 

[Innotech]

I dont think so, i think its the combination of making it accesible to new gamers with the simple touch controls and yet still keeping it true to Zelda for the hardcore gamers. The touch sceen also makes it feel new and fresh again (although this is what i heard since i never player it). The same thing happened to Mario, dont be surprised if Zelda PH sells 3 million when all is said and done.

I agree about the game being made well for the DS demographics, but seriously, the cel shaded style is a lot more successful than the mature style in Zelda. It just looks right.

 

[Sharp]

I agree about the game being made well for the DS demographics, but seriously, the cel shaded style is a lot more successful than the mature style in Zelda. It just looks right.

So Wind Waker was/is a lot more successful than OoT and Twilight Princess? That's a little ridiculous. Cell shading didn't help Zelda in the US, and it certainly didn't do anything to affect the franchise's downward spiral in Japan. The DS and the touch-screen appeal to casual gamers is what's making PH sell so well.

 

[Link]

I'll be curious to see how DQS manages in the states. It'll be met with some serious opposition in the way of big blockbusters for Wii like BWii, Endless Ocean and Mario. I hope it can garner similar enthusiam and encourage SE to release more action titles.

Mario, sure, but I really wouldn't consider BWii or Endless Ocean "big blockbusters."

 

[jarrod]

I agree about the game being made well for the DS demographics, but seriously, the cel shaded style is a lot more successful than the mature style in Zelda. It just looks right.

Funny enough, back when TWW came out, it's lower than expected JP sales were attributed to the toon style... I remember something about girls wanting "hot Link" back or something. :lol

 

[evilromero]

Mario, sure, but I really wouldn't consider BWii or Endless Ocean "big blockbusters."

If you consider the tastes of US gamers BWii should be a strong seller (despite the lackluster sales of the original, which was more an effect of GameCube's flagging success). I say those three because they'll receive the full Nintendo promotion.

 

[ethelred]

:lol

I think you're just trying to piss off Ethelred

 

[LanceStern]

+ I cannot wrap my mind around Zelda pH's sales. It has passed my expectations and the DS has once again saved another franchise in Japan. This is truly UNPRECEDENTED for a Zelda title (console or handheld) to have this good of legs AND a beautiful launch. The same thing happened for Mario Kart DS which is still selling mind you.

+ I'm glad to see Dragon Quest Swords has sold it's first 300,000 in just one week, and now it's officially made a profit for Square Enix. I'm interested in it's second week sales.

+ Another great week of sales for the Nintendo DS, doing 130k. It is impossible to believe it is still over 100,000 each week. Also a very good boost to the Nintendo Wii +30k.

+ Nice to see some legs on the obscure Chibi Robo.

- It's a little sad to see no apparent boost to any other Wii titles despite DQS. Also, the second week might prove dastardly for DQS's software (I believe less than 50k) which would thus NOT disprove the idea of 3rd party games selling badly on Wii, considering it's the only game to break decently over even 100k (in which the link clearly states for developers to make a profit, Wii titles must average around 300k).

If the next MC threaders are looking for a "stupid poster argument". Someone can take that and run with it

 

[loosus]

Hey, maybe Phantom Hourglass actually is a decent game. I certainly agree with Japan that New Super Mario Bros. is among the best games ever. Zelda certainly needed a good game after that terrible trainwreck that was Twilight Princess. Don't ever do that to me again, Nintendo.

 

[LanceStern]

Hey, maybe Phantom Hourglass actually is a decent game. I certainly agree with Japan that New Super Mario Bros. is among the best games ever. Zelda certainly needed a good game after that terrible trainwreck that was Twilight Princess. Don't ever do that to me again, Nintendo.

I've been hearing EXCELLENT things about PH, and I was even going to make a topic that I, like a few other posters, were not even giving the title a second look, but after seeing it's sales and impressions and reviews, it's now one of my most wanteds

The only thing trainwreck about TP was it's ending/final battle, it was rushed and haphazard, like a trainwreck.

Other than that, begone demon spirit

 

[Frillen]

+ I cannot wrap my mind around Zelda pH's sales. It has passed my expectations and the DS has once again saved another franchise in Japan. This is truly UNPRECEDENTED for a Zelda title (console or handheld) to have this good of legs AND a beautiful launch. The same thing happened for Mario Kart DS which is still selling mind you.

+ I'm glad to see Dragon Quest Swords has sold it's first 300,000 in just one week, and now it's officially made a profit for Square Enix. I'm interested in it's second week sales.

+ Another great week of sales for the Nintendo DS, doing 130k. It is impossible to believe it is still over 100,000 each week. Also a very good boost to the Nintendo Wii +30k.

+ Nice to see some legs on the obscure Chibi Robo.

- It's a little sad to see no apparent boost to any other Wii titles despite DQS. Also, the second week might prove dastardly for DQS's software (I believe less than 50k) which would thus NOT disprove the idea of 3rd party games selling badly on Wii, considering it's the only game to break decently over even 100k (in which the link clearly states for developers to make a profit, Wii titles must average around 300k).

If the next MC threaders are looking for a "stupid poster argument". Someone can take that and run with it

DQ:Swords was pretty much the first major third-party effort for the Wii in Japan though. The others have been small titles or titles that only have a niche market. Dragon Ball 2 has sold 150k which is pretty good for a PS2 port. Hasn't Naruto 5 also sold slightly above 100k? Just wondering.

 

[MasterMFauli]

Hasn't Naruto 5 also sold slightly above 100k? Just wondering.

Was around 80k afaik. Very disappointing, but 8ing f*cked up the gameplay by changing parts of it...sometimes change isnt good :-/

 

[Frillen]

Was around 80k afaik. Very disappointing, but 8ing f*cked up the gameplay by changing parts of it...sometimes change isnt good :-/

Wasn't that number from the beginning of June?

 

[MasterMFauli]

Wasn't that number from the beginning of June?

Then perhaps it is around 90k, but i doubt it broke 100k.
And even if so, it´s disappointing. The first 3 games made it to 1 million together.

 

[the thoroughbred]

Ok, firstly there is way too much hate for TP here. The game is a masterpiece, so don't any of you dare say "trainwreck". It was just unfortunate for some very good games to not do well as expected. It was released too early for the Japanese market, who are very front loaded. Its only expanded audience games (NSMB, AC, Wiisports etc etc) that are consistent and have those sexy long legs. I honestly did beleive that eventually TP will reach 1 million, once the user base goes up. But I don't know any longer whether the Japanese have the memory to remember older games that were really good.

 

[mutsu]

- It's a little sad to see no apparent boost to any other Wii titles despite DQS. Also, the second week might prove dastardly for DQS's software (I believe less than 50k) which would thus NOT disprove the idea of 3rd party games selling badly on Wii, considering it's the only game to break decently over even 100k (in which the link clearly states for developers to make a profit, Wii titles must average around 300k).

I think you have underestimated the power of the Dragon Quest brand in Japan by quite a bit.

I am guessing second week will be around 150K (if they can ship that much).

Dragon Quest is not your normal RPG in Japan. It is the "kokumin RPG" (RPG for the entire country so to speak).

 

[The Friendly Monster]

I think we need to rethink this attitude of games selling systems, although it may be that way for many of us, in general a hardcore game is not going to encourage a more widespread audience to purchase a console.

What we are seeing with the DS is the system being able to sell games, quite amazing sales numbers have been posted recently. Zelda, Yoshi's Island, Ouendan 2, Phoenix Wright, Kirby and New Super Mario Brothers have all gone against trends of decline in a franchise, and these are all hardcore games. However I feel that hardware has been pushed much more strongly by the likes of Brain Training, Pokemon, Animal Crossing and Nintendogs, less hardcore games (softcore?).

On the other hand PS3 sales have been consistently poor, big hardcore franchises like Gundam and Virtua Fighter have been unable to ignite them. What PS3 really needs is a softcore game that uses the features of the PS3 to a great capability. Perhaps something like Little Big Planet or a PSP/PS3 crossover online "experience" could help.

Anyway that's my take on things, let me know what you think.

 

[jarrod]

Then perhaps it is around 90k, but i doubt it broke 100k.
And even if so, it´s disappointing. The first 3 games made it to 1 million together.

Eh, at least it still outsold VF5.

Bleach Wii sort of fizzled too actually, as did DOA4... new gen fighting am dead?

 

[MasterMFauli]

Eh, at least it still outsold VF5.

Bleach Wii sort of fizzled too actually, as did DOA4... new gen fighting am dead?

Bleach Wii is, afaik, crap, and the video from E³ seems to confirm that.
And i REALLY hope that Gekitou Ninja Taisen! EX 2 gets the series back on track. I love these games even more than the Zelda-series, and THAT has to mean something

 

[Frillen]

Eh, at least it still outsold VF5.

Bleach Wii sort of fizzled too actually, as did DOA4... new gen fighting am dead?

You just wait till Smash Brawl

 

[oatmeal]

What time do these sales usually come out at?

 

[C.T.]

Bleach Wii IS crap. I imported the gamecube version and doubt they really improved on it...

 

[Stealth Editor]

What time do these sales usually come out at?

We usually wait until you fall asleep

 

[ethelred]

Here's kinda an interesting little thing I noticed.

Sometimes people write off Dragon Quest Swords -- "it's Dragon Quest, of course it's selling" (nevermind that it's selling well even within the context of being a Dragon Quest game, a point I've made far too frequently now).

But then it seems like they turn around and say "Of course the PS3's not selling yet -- wait for Final Fantasy XIII." The implication seems to be something along the lines of: it's okay for the PS3's success to hinge on a major franchise, but any major franchise that sees success on another platform is inconsequential, expected, and an irrelevancy to publishers and analysis.

It seems a little odd to me.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

Ok, firstly there is way too much hate for TP here. The game is a masterpiece, so don't any of you dare say "trainwreck". It was just unfortunate for some very good games to not do well as expected. It was released too early for the Japanese market, who are very front loaded. Its only expanded audience games (NSMB, AC, Wiisports etc etc) that are consistent and have those sexy long legs. I honestly did beleive that eventually TP will reach 1 million, once the user base goes up. But I don't know any longer whether the Japanese have the memory to remember older games that were really good.

Don't be daft. Many were disappointed by Twilight Princess and they have a right to be, just as much as you do to say it was a masterpiece. I think Nintendo fans don't understand the company they love sometimes. Wind Waker was the finest game from EAD on the Gamecube but it really wasn't given a fair chance by the "fans". Even the media hounded Nintendo asking juvenile questions about a more "mature" Zelda. It is this that is regrettable and not the couple of people shouting "trainwreck".
I think people forget that game designers are artists, can you imagine such a situation happening in another industry? I think not.
This is not an attack at you, I've reread your post and it's totally reasonable, just one comment stirred this argument up in me which I wanted to share.

 

[Frillen]

What time do these sales usually come out at?

Look at what time the OP was posted and add one week

 

[Xeke]

Hasn't famitsu always tracked the PS3 higher than MC? I remember weeks where they had it at over 10k and MC had it under 9k. Or I've imagined those.

Great numbers for DQ and Zelda. Observation Training is showing great legs.

 

[Innotech]

Don't be daft. Many were disappointed by Twilight Princess and they have a right to be, just as much as you do to say it was a masterpiece. I think Nintendo fans don't understand the company they love sometimes. Wind Waker was the finest game from EAD on the Gamecube but it really wasn't given a fair chance by the "fans". Even the media hounded Nintendo asking juvenile questions about a more "mature" Zelda. It is this that is regrettable and not the couple of people shouting "trainwreck".
I think people forget that game designers are artists, can you imagine such a situation happening in another industry? I think not.
This is not an attack at you, I've reread your post and it's totally reasonable, just one comment stirred this argument up in me which I wanted to share.

Zelda WW seriously butts heads with OOt as my favorite Zelda game. the animations and art style in it felt really special and really brought Links world to life. Words cant accurately portray how much I loved that game. they just cant.

 

[jarrod]

The Wind Waker was a half finished dissapointment, no way around that. It's quite easily one of the weakest games to come out of EAD in their 22 year history.... the aesthetic was the best thing it had going for it honestly.

EAD's best GC game was Pikmin, no question.

 

[Frillen]

Hasn't famitsu always tracked the PS3 higher than MC? I remember weeks where they had it at over 10k and MC had it under 9k. Or I'm imagined those.

Great numbers for DQ and Zelda. Observation Training is showing great legs.

Yes, Famitsu is usually a couple of Ks higher than m-create when it comes to PS3's HW sales. Famitsu Sony fanboys? I think so.



















j/k

 

[Xeke]

Don't be daft. Many were disappointed by Twilight Princess and they have a right to be, just as much as you do to say it was a masterpiece. I think Nintendo fans don't understand the company they love sometimes. Wind Waker was the finest game from EAD on the Gamecube but it really wasn't given a fair chance by the "fans". Even the media hounded Nintendo asking juvenile questions about a more "mature" Zelda. It is this that is regrettable and not the couple of people shouting "trainwreck".
I think people forget that game designers are artists, can you imagine such a situation happening in another industry? I think not.
This is not an attack at you, I've reread your post and it's totally reasonable, just one comment stirred this argument up in me which I wanted to share.

Except the triforce bit at the end made me put it down and just not deal with it anymore. That was just a pain in the ass and I don't have the patience for it. TP was devoid of such ridiculous busy work.

 

[oatmeal]

We usually wait until you fall asleep

Damn

 

[LanceStern]

Zelda WW seriously butts heads with OOt as my favorite Zelda game. the animations and art style in it felt really special and really brought Links world to life. Words cant accurately portray how much I loved that game. they just cant.

I forget what topic it was (probably a PH topic) but they were complimenting Wind Waker and such so much that I went back last night and started a new file.

The animations of the enemies (especially the giant pigs with spears in the Forsaken Fortress) are a marvel to behold. It look ahead of it's time

 

[The Friendly Monster]

Except the triforce bit at the end made me put it down and just not deal with it anymore. That was just a pain in the ass and I don't have the patience for it. TP was devoid of such ridiculous busy work.

Yeah, the triforce hunt was ridiculous in retrospect, for some reason it didn't bother me so much at the time though. I still haven't finished TP, stopped at the start of the Ice Dungeon so I try to refrain from commenting, however the fact that I haven't touched the game for a few months does say something. So far I've had a feeling of the non-dungeon parts of TP playing more like a point-and-click adventure. Very forced puzzles and not much sense of "adventure". I don't remember ever feeling like this in Wind Waker.

I really can't wait for Phantom Hourglass, it looks incredible.

 

[CoolTrick]

What we are seeing with the DS is the system being able to sell games

I really don't think this is accurate. I hate to shoot it down with such an obvious "the size of the userbase", but it's true. When you've sold 20 million systems and are the new craze in Japan, of course most games are going to have higher sales than systems with a quarter of that userbase...

 

[titiklabingapat]

I think we need to rethink this attitude of games selling systems, although it may be that way for many of us, in general a hardcore game is not going to encourage a more widespread audience to purchase a console.

What we are seeing with the DS is the system being able to sell games, quite amazing sales numbers have been posted recently. Zelda, Yoshi's Island, Ouendan 2, Phoenix Wright, Kirby and New Super Mario Brothers have all gone against trends of decline in a franchise, and these are all hardcore games. However I feel that hardware has been pushed much more strongly by the likes of Brain Training, Pokemon, Animal Crossing and Nintendogs, less hardcore games (softcore?).

On the other hand PS3 sales have been consistently poor, big hardcore franchises like Gundam and Virtua Fighter have been unable to ignite them. What PS3 really needs is a softcore game that uses the features of the PS3 to a great capability. Perhaps something like Little Big Planet or a PSP/PS3 crossover online "experience" could help.

Anyway that's my take on things, let me know what you think.

It's the same with Wii, somewhat. The system selling game is a nontraditional game, but the reviving franchise part has yet to be seen. We do have a fairly good example with Super Paper Mario but it might have just been statistical noise because of the small sample(small userbase, not enough games released).

In time, we'll hopefully see this happening on the console since the Wii is more or less the product of the DS formula and has been consistently mirroring how it is ascending to the high heavens, only at a more accelerated pace.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I really don't think this is accurate. I hate to shoot it down with such an obvious "the size of the userbase", but it's true. When you've sold 20 million systems and are the new craze in Japan, of course most games are going to have higher sales than systems with a quarter of that userbase...

Someone needs to revisit PS2 software sales.

 

[Xeke]

I really don't think this is accurate. I hate to shoot it down with such an obvious "the size of the userbase", but it's true. When you've sold 20 million systems and are the new craze in Japan, of course most games are going to have higher sales than systems with a quarter of that userbase...

I'm pretty sure that isn't totally true because PS2 games never had the legs that DS games do. Mario Kart DS is still in the top 20 regularly and sometimes in the top 10 on slow weeks. It released over a year a half ago. Hell, how long did Animal Crossing stay in the top 10.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

I really don't think this is accurate. I hate to shoot it down with such an obvious "the size of the userbase", but it's true. When you've sold 20 million systems and are the new craze in Japan, of course most games are going to have higher sales than systems with a quarter of that userbase...

Exactly, I don't think it's some magic Nintendo potion they have. The system is selling the games. All of the games I mentioned outsold what the general consensus on GAF thought. This is because a lot of us believe in "fans of the series" because that's how we purchase games.

edit. er yeah plus what those guys above said.

 

[Oblivion]

Oblivion saw Man of Le Mancha and really took it to heart.

I like Don Quixote and all, but..what?

Don't be daft. Many were disappointed by Twilight Princess and they have a right to be, just as much as you do to say it was a masterpiece. I think Nintendo fans don't understand the company they love sometimes. Wind Waker was the finest game from EAD on the Gamecube but it really wasn't given a fair chance by the "fans". Even the media hounded Nintendo asking juvenile questions about a more "mature" Zelda. It is this that is regrettable and not the couple of people shouting "trainwreck".

What? The reason TP disappointed (for the majority) hardly had anything to do with the style that they chose to go under. Whatever flaws it had were gameplay related.


As for the argument about which style Japan prefers, I don't think we can come to any conclusions just yet. WW sold much worse than OoT. TP sold worse than WW, but the gap wasn't that huge. Then there's the fact that we have to take userbases into account, as well.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

What? The reason TP disappointed (for the majority) hardly had anything to do with the style that they chose to go under. Whatever flaws it had were gameplay related.

Yup. There's a couple of my problems with it further up. I didn't say I wanted a direct sequel to the Wind Waker in the same style instead of Twilight Princess. I just feel that the negative feedback surrounding WW, particularly before it came out, was not only unwarranted, but also served to restrain the creativity allowed on Twilight Princess. I feel this is regrettable.

As for the argument about which style Japan prefers, I don't think we can come to any conclusions just yet. WW sold much worse than OoT. TP sold worse than WW, but the gap wasn't that huge. Then there's the fact that we have to take userbases into account, as well.

I don't really think it's possible, or useful to compare these titles in this way.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I like Don Quixote and all, but..what?

:lol It's an incredibly non-obvious reference, and scant hours later I'm not sure what I was thinking. Annnnyway, you were hoping for 400k sales of DQS, when the shipment was only 350k. Thus your hope was impossible, and you were "dreaming the impossible dream", which is the main song from "Man of La Mancha".

Man, I don't even know sometimes.

 

[Innotech]

:lol It's an incredibly non-obvious reference, and scant hours later I'm not sure what I was thinking. Annnnyway, you were hoping for 400k sales of DQS, when the shipment was only 350k. Thus your hope was impossible, and you were "dreaming the impossible dream", which is the main song from "Man of La Mancha".

Man, I don't even know sometimes.

that was deep man. DEEP.