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Media Create Sales: Aug 31-Sep 6, 2009
- Thread starter donny2112
- Start date
Soundwave2000
Banned
It attribute *part* (not all) of the weak Wii and PSP sales on the economy.
The economy is terrible, especially in Japan, they have now their highest unemployment rate in post WW2 history. That is a big deal. They have just elected their first opposition government to power as people have gotten pissed in the post-WW2 era. That is unprecedented.
I believe the DS would be down this year too if it was not for the DSi revision and the monstrous release of DQIX + Tomadachi.
PS3 is up YoY in Japan, but really its 2008 sales were so pathetic that surpassing them this year with the FF13 demo/bundle + now PS3 Slim was never really a stretch.
Perhaps what Nintendo could do is price cut in Japan only and go with a new bundle for North America and Europe. They're not moving huge volumes of Wii in Japan anyway, it's not like a price cut would impact their bottom line all that much.
The economy is terrible, especially in Japan, they have now their highest unemployment rate in post WW2 history. That is a big deal. They have just elected their first opposition government to power as people have gotten pissed in the post-WW2 era. That is unprecedented.
I believe the DS would be down this year too if it was not for the DSi revision and the monstrous release of DQIX + Tomadachi.
PS3 is up YoY in Japan, but really its 2008 sales were so pathetic that surpassing them this year with the FF13 demo/bundle + now PS3 Slim was never really a stretch.
Perhaps what Nintendo could do is price cut in Japan only and go with a new bundle for North America and Europe. They're not moving huge volumes of Wii in Japan anyway, it's not like a price cut would impact their bottom line all that much.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Liabe Brave said:
I wasn't implying that handheld gaming would be the end of console gaming (like how console gaming was the end of arcade gaming for pretty much everywhere but Japan), but more so handhelds will take over while consoles will merely start becoming niche in comparison. Think computing as of today. Yes desktops are still selling alright but most people are heading toward laptops and netbooks for their needs.
markatisu said:
Yeah, but in a few weeks, MHP2G will be ahead of 3, but both will be falling eventually, even the great MHP2G will one day cease to sell. It's not like MHP3 is going to come out today, but announcing it at TGS that they're working on it with a release of mid next year would be a nice thing to do, as MHP2G and MH3 are going to be done selling by then.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Well, to be fair, it took MHP2G a LONG time to hit that pace. And this is the RERELEASE we're talking aboutmarkatisu said:
Soundwave2000
Banned
Tmac said:
This is actually wrong IMO.
The theater industry is up strongly this year, even though I think the lineup of movies this summer was fairly crappy.
The game industry as a whole (like most industries) is way down as a whole.
Recession helps movies more because people actually do still want to go out and get away from their troubles, and a $8 movie ticket can do that easily. It's also easier to take the kids out to the movies than that trip to Disneyland you promised or that $250 (well really $300 plus after controllers and tax) Wii you promised.
charlequin said:
And perhaps in future cycles it will be well understood that starting out at a reasonable price, and sticking to it, can work wonders for your bottom line and for the perception of value of your product.
charlequin said:
The difference in price between the two is around about the price of one game. Historic console pricing means nothing, just as walkmans didn't used to cost as much as iPods do.
Considering Wii is often bought for families, rather than individuals, the difference in price seems like OK value relative to the 'accessible to everyone' DS.
The 360 costs less than Wii in Japan, yet it doesn't sell better. If PS3 is outselling Wii at a very-near price in a few months time, then Nintendo will probably want to get the price advantage back. But if it isn't, then Nintendo are still on top in hardware, with no price drop, whilst their competitors continue to incur losses.
All the evidence says to me that a $50 drop in Wii price would see it sell well for a few weeks, then go back to 20k a week, but with each one netting Nintendo $50 less in hardware sales, and no where to go for the next bump. It may well be unavoidable if they need to hit their numbers, but we don't have enough information to predict either way.
AdventureRacing
Member
DMeisterJ said:
Why would they do this? Announcing it now wouldn't cause any extra sales to the PSP or MHP3. What it could do is cut the legs of MH3 and MHP2G.
Why not wait on it a bit longer allow their current software to keep selling and announce it closer to release.
I don't think capcom would announce it just because "it's a nice thing to do". They want to make money and to me that announcing it now would be a really silly move.
AdventureRacing said:
Exactly my point, what good would announcing it this month do anybody? Its not like the MH fanbase is going to walk away from the current games anytime soon
The pace may slow but a sold 5-10k a week is better than a lot of games. MH3 will get to a million slowly and MH2PG will keep going.
They gain absolutely nothing announcing the MH3P this month besides making a few PSP fanboys excited that its coming (not like we dont know it is) but risk cutting any legs out from under the 2 current games...especially MH3 whose main draw is that fact there is no MH3P available
They will still get the killer/monumental sales if they announce it closer to the holidays or even next Spring, but risk far less as MH3 would most likely be in a BEST OF edition
Torhthelm Tídwald
Member
swerve said:
This may be true. On the other hand, if the Wii doesn't get a price drop, it might well drop into the low 10ks a week.
Each year the Wii has done worse than the last. My argument is that this trend will continue unless Nintendo makes the Wii a better value proposition to a larger number of gamers.
AdventureRacing
Member
onken said:
We will have to wait and see but i think it basically is guaranteed.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Especially if the technical gap continues to decrease.AdventureRacing said:
Just wait until consoles become a 10 million unit (or lower) niche next generation.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Well, they were securing stuff a few years back, but it's taken forever for stuff to get released.charlequin said:
Luckily that 2006 securing of Crystal Bearers has paid off--for nearly a month they'll have a captive audience of people waiting in line for XIII to sell to.
I don't think this matters. Though I'm not familiar with Japanese price histories as well as I am US ones, the year in the US that GameCube and GBA SP were the same price was their biggest holiday ever. They were both at a great price, and sold well for it.cvxfreak said:
The no-legged man would LOVE to be the one-legged man, sure.EDarkness said:
31. [PS3] Grand Theft Auto IV（PlayStation 3 the Best) (Capcom)
32. [NDS] Blood of Bahamut (Square Enix)
33. [PS2] Hakuouki: Zuisouroku (Idea Factory)
34. [PS2] J-League Winning Eleven 2009: Club Championship (Konami)
35. [PSP] Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven Portable (From Software)
36. [PS3] Valkyria Chronicles (Playstation 3 the Best) (Sega)
37. [PS2] Melty Blood: Actress Again (Ecole)
38. [NDS] New Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo)
39. [PS2] Pro Baseball Spirits 6 (Konami)
40. [PSP] Hakuouki Portable (Idea Factory)
41. [PS3] Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (Playstation 3 the Best) (SCE)
42. [NDS] Pokemon Platinum (Pokemon Co.)
43. [NDS] Paul Sloan & Des MacHale's Mysterious Story (Level 5)
44. [NDS] Mario Kart DS (Nintendo)
45. [PS2] Kamen Rider: Climax Heroes (Namco Bandai)
46. [WII] Taiko Drum Master Wii (Namco Bandai)
47. [PSP] Armored Core 3 Portable (From Software)
48. [WII] SD Gundam G Generation: Wars (Namco Bandai)
49. [PSP] Sly Wolf (Konami)
50. [DS] Rhythm Heaven: Tap into the Rhythm (Nintendo)
__. [ALL] Total Software Sales - 933.631 / 39.520.326
3 PS3 games from 31-50 and total software a little up from the previous week (848.940)
32. [NDS] Blood of Bahamut (Square Enix)
33. [PS2] Hakuouki: Zuisouroku (Idea Factory)
34. [PS2] J-League Winning Eleven 2009: Club Championship (Konami)
35. [PSP] Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven Portable (From Software)
36. [PS3] Valkyria Chronicles (Playstation 3 the Best) (Sega)
37. [PS2] Melty Blood: Actress Again (Ecole)
38. [NDS] New Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo)
39. [PS2] Pro Baseball Spirits 6 (Konami)
40. [PSP] Hakuouki Portable (Idea Factory)
41. [PS3] Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (Playstation 3 the Best) (SCE)
42. [NDS] Pokemon Platinum (Pokemon Co.)
43. [NDS] Paul Sloan & Des MacHale's Mysterious Story (Level 5)
44. [NDS] Mario Kart DS (Nintendo)
45. [PS2] Kamen Rider: Climax Heroes (Namco Bandai)
46. [WII] Taiko Drum Master Wii (Namco Bandai)
47. [PSP] Armored Core 3 Portable (From Software)
48. [WII] SD Gundam G Generation: Wars (Namco Bandai)
49. [PSP] Sly Wolf (Konami)
50. [DS] Rhythm Heaven: Tap into the Rhythm (Nintendo)
__. [ALL] Total Software Sales - 933.631 / 39.520.326
3 PS3 games from 31-50 and total software a little up from the previous week (848.940)
Let's not forget that you can also hook up a PSP to a TV and play it that way. This kind of thing may continue with future hardware too, reducing the gap between handheld and console, and if they drop the drives and go for network distribution, the merging of the two will be quite seamless.AdventureRacing said:
Oh yeah, one thing that we need, and is actually happening, is wireless transmission of video to the TV screen. Big developments are happening in that area.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
A note on PSP's lowness. The last times it's had weeks this low were in valleys preceding bumps. It did so shortly before PSP-2000's release in 2007, and just before going over 150+K in October 2008 due to something I don't immediately remember. Other than those times, we have to go back to 2006 to find weeks below 24K.Dalthien said:
onken
Member
Look I'm not say it's not possible. I'm not saying it's not likely. I'm saying it's not a certainty and "handhelds are the future" is becoming posted far too much without it being thought through.
This console generation has been a total cluster fuck. You have one console with zero brand power and terrible hardware quality. You have one console which has bucked the trend of advancing tech and isolated the "hardcore", which is now coming home to roost. You have one console which was overpriced. On top of this, you have spiralling costs on game development due to the jump to HD, causing a severe drop in numbers of releases. All of which have contributed to big chunks being knocked off sales across the board, leading to a bevy of "CONSOLES BE DOOMED" posts. What people seem to be forgetting is, these problems won't last forever.
Let's consider the next generation. Microsoft *may* have gained some brand power and will have learnt their lesson regarding quality of tech. Sony aren't even going to consider releasing an over-priced console. Both will no doubt have some form of "accessible" controls as an option. I don't think anybody really knows what Nintendo are thinking, Nintendo HV is an easy guess. The jump in production costs will be nowhere near as drastic. All signs are pointing towards a more accessible, more reliable and cheaper next generation, and I think it's premature and foolhardy to write it off before it's even begun.
Or I could be wrong and in five years time be hunched over a 10cm screen playing Final Fantasy 16 on my DSi+.
This console generation has been a total cluster fuck. You have one console with zero brand power and terrible hardware quality. You have one console which has bucked the trend of advancing tech and isolated the "hardcore", which is now coming home to roost. You have one console which was overpriced. On top of this, you have spiralling costs on game development due to the jump to HD, causing a severe drop in numbers of releases. All of which have contributed to big chunks being knocked off sales across the board, leading to a bevy of "CONSOLES BE DOOMED" posts. What people seem to be forgetting is, these problems won't last forever.
Let's consider the next generation. Microsoft *may* have gained some brand power and will have learnt their lesson regarding quality of tech. Sony aren't even going to consider releasing an over-priced console. Both will no doubt have some form of "accessible" controls as an option. I don't think anybody really knows what Nintendo are thinking, Nintendo HV is an easy guess. The jump in production costs will be nowhere near as drastic. All signs are pointing towards a more accessible, more reliable and cheaper next generation, and I think it's premature and foolhardy to write it off before it's even begun.
Or I could be wrong and in five years time be hunched over a 10cm screen playing Final Fantasy 16 on my DSi+.
JoshuaJSlone said:
Hmm. Good point, but the difference is that we're supposed to be led to believe that handhelds and consoles are not so distinct and separate anymore. I don't think this argument existed last gen. Also, the US market is pretty different from Japan. I doubt handhelds and consoles steal much of each other's sales outside of Asia myself.
I doubt anyone considered the GBA SP as big a competitor to the GC as the PS2 and Xbox were. But now, the DS and PSP seem like legitimate Wii-sales-stealing products and vice versa.
swerve said:Of my five PS3 Slim purchasing friends here, only one already had a PS3.
So, FOOLPROOF and WATERTIGHT anecdotal evidence suggests 30,000 of those 150,000 went to current PS3 owners.
Of course then there was this guy;
http://kotaku.com/5352317/who-is-this-ps3-slim-shopper-who
Never can have too many right. haha
Dead Prince
Banned
Jtyettis said:
looks like cvxfreak.
Pureauthor
Member
You know, it just struck me that this has been the most volatile/dynamic generation in terms of hardware sales in... well, I honestly can't find a comparison, really.
As a Sales-Ager, it's really interesting.
As a Sales-Ager, it's really interesting.
slaughterking
Member
The only notable release this week happens tomorrow.
BattleMonkey
Member
Why would we see sudden increases in PS3 old software when most of it is available used in large quantities?
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
HK-47 said:
Look, dude, you don't understand. My analyst instincts tell me that throwing good money after bad is a good idea! If only those IDIOTS at Sega knew what the hell they were missing out on.
charlequin
Banned
freddy said:
Yep, you've figured it out. Deep down in my heart I know that our benevolent Nintendo overlords are infinitely wiser and more moral than us mere mortals and the satanic overlords at Microsoft and Sony, but then one day I decided I would continuously troll the Wii with false and misleading information just to make you suffer.
swerve said:
I don't know why that would be "well understood" in future generations when it's not actually true. The Wii definitely started out at a reasonable price, yet now its value is seen quite poorly because it hasn't actually maintained relative value compared to the marketplace over time.
Now it is, but not comparing the launch price of the original DS to the launch price of the Wii. If the DS had originally launched at the DSi's current price, it would've clearly had room to capture more sales by moving downmarket.
(And, again, the floor price is always going to be somewhat dependent on demand. If 100,000 people wanted to buy a Wii at its current price every single week, without fail, then I think you could meaningfully argue that there was no sense in ever making a pricedrop. But that's clearly not the case.)
No, historical console pricing means quite a bit as it's one of the most significant determiners of perceived value in the marketplace. The wholesale, brutal rejection of higher price points this generation has been driven in part by the incredible inertia demonstrated by previous generations' winning pricing: people have become well used to valuing a game console at certain levels and aren't particularly willing to consider a major price hike (or its equivalent, a lack of a price drop) acceptable from a value standpoint.
Sure, and the Gamecube was the cheapest system everywhere. This is an irrelevant point, because no one is arguing that systems sell purely on the basis of price, only that price is a major determinant of sales and that every system above a certain point is missing out on potential sales to consumers who would buy it at a lower price.
This is not particularly relevant in comparison to the point where Nintendo is now selling 20k units a week rather than 60k. "Beating" the PS3 is fairly irrelevant, but the opportunity cost of selling weakly when one could be selling strongly is quite relevant.
Well, inasmuch as that's true, it would be because Nintendo has also failed to deliver a compelling software lineup.
onken said:
Given how long the trend towards portables has been accelerating, given the economic wall home consoles are running up against (i.e. it simply won't be possible to make money fully tapping the capabilities of increasingly powerful machines), and given the degree to which Japan is focused on mobile electronic devices (like cellphones) even outside of gaming...
I mean, it's "possible" it won't continue, but that's a "it's possible a meteor will wipe out all life first" kind of "possible" and not the kind that any sensible person would ever take a bet on.
Pureauthor said:
The 16-bit generation is the only other one where interesting and meaningful sales jockeying, and differing levels of performance in different territories, made for an unclear market with room for surprises this far out into the generation, but even then you're really only looking at a two-way battle (with TG16 as an also-ran) rather than the relatively intricate situation we've got now.
It seems people are confusing winning the console war with maxing potential sales. The latter is the thing most of the sensible people here are arguing that Nintendo isnt doing a good job of at the moment. Sony and MS arent really in the picture, though Sony may have appeared on the outer edge of the Japanese sales photo with the Slim.
HK-47 said:
Well unless you think your opinion is worth the opinion of millions of others they tend to be one in the same. Nintendo constantly holds most of the sales charts, it's really hard to say it's accidental. What you seem to be doing is forcing a hardcore versus casual debate in that what you like is bettter than what other people like.
Pureauthor
Member
Somnid said:
But we're not discussing Nintendo as a company - we're discussing the Wii. Not quite the same thing.