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Media Create Sales: Dec 6-13, 2009
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
Pokemon is nowhere near as front loaded as Final Fantasy and aims for different demographics, so it wouldn't interfere with TOV nearly as much as TOG has been stunted by FF13.
That and the fact that Pokemon isn't about finishing the main story, so people could easily start TOV after Pokemon HG/SS and play both alongside each other if they wanted to. Few people will want to play TOG alongside a new Final Fantasy game though, so one gets sacrificed for another.
Plus on top of that, you also have NSMB Wii and Samurai Warriors 3 that came out just before it, so there's even more competition!
In short, Graces faced much stronger competition than Vesperia PS3 did.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Nuclear Muffin said:
And Graces has like 3 million more install base margin to sell the game than Vesperia on PS3, in the end Graces did worse than Vesperia on PS3, than TOS2 and most PSP spinoff.
Maybe it will recover or not, we don't know, but right now, Graces undesold.
Some interesting pics from today:
Monster Hunter 3 in Sofmap's bomba bin; priced at ¥2480 and there were at least 25 copies on sale.
A stack of 7 Tales of Graces bundles; systems are usually never kept outside the back counters unless they're used or unable to be stored. Seems like the PS3 has gobbled up storage space in Japanese shops.
Tons of PS3 FFXIII bundles to go around.
Monster Hunter 3 in Sofmap's bomba bin; priced at ¥2480 and there were at least 25 copies on sale.
A stack of 7 Tales of Graces bundles; systems are usually never kept outside the back counters unless they're used or unable to be stored. Seems like the PS3 has gobbled up storage space in Japanese shops.
Tons of PS3 FFXIII bundles to go around.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Is that the MH3 + CC bundle or the standalone? The box looks larger than usual. At 2480 yen if it's the bundle it'd be worth it just for the classic controller! 
TheRagnCajun
Member
That's an ugly-ass PSP sign.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
:lol at people who are implying that I said it'd sell more than Vesperia. Go back and read my post where I specifically stated it would have sold an additional 50K, maybe more. Last I checked that'd still track beneath Vesperia PS3.
The games-don't-sell-on-Wii force is out in, erm, full force. The only point I ever made was that this game would have sold better outside of FFXIII's shadow. Had it been DQX (announced for Wii), the result would have been the same.
You're making the assumption that everyone who owns system X all must have the exact same taste and buy all the exact same games. There are more people who own PS3s in Japan than those buying FFXIII, the argument can work both ways.
What doesn't work both ways is that FF is infinitely more popular than Tales of. That is all.
The games-don't-sell-on-Wii force is out in, erm, full force. The only point I ever made was that this game would have sold better outside of FFXIII's shadow. Had it been DQX (announced for Wii), the result would have been the same.
Sage00 said:
You're making the assumption that everyone who owns system X all must have the exact same taste and buy all the exact same games. There are more people who own PS3s in Japan than those buying FFXIII, the argument can work both ways.
What doesn't work both ways is that FF is infinitely more popular than Tales of. That is all.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Relaxed Muscle said:
Of course it undersold, but it undersold becuase of the competition that it was up against, not becuase it was on the Wii.
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
:lol
So good.
So good.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
Such a profound argument. You're going places
on GAF
oldie-newbie
Member
Please, do not forget the basic laws:
- Every third party game that sold between 100k and 1,000k on the Wii is a complete failure or a bomba (the word choice is yours) and if any sold beyond 1,000k, it will become automatically a non-game.
- Every third party game that sold beyond 100k on the PS3 is a complete success and if any sold beyond 1,000k, it will become automatically a stellar success (even if there is a price collapse on the day launch).
:lol :lol :lol
- Every third party game that sold between 100k and 1,000k on the Wii is a complete failure or a bomba (the word choice is yours) and if any sold beyond 1,000k, it will become automatically a non-game.
- Every third party game that sold beyond 100k on the PS3 is a complete success and if any sold beyond 1,000k, it will become automatically a stellar success (even if there is a price collapse on the day launch).
:lol :lol :lol
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
gkrykewy said:
Had Tales of Graces been released a week before DQX, the result would have been the same.
Durante said:
It's a high possibility, considering that DQX is a ways off, and that huge additional fanbase also partially consists of the people who prefer the unique Wii offerings like Wii Fit.
Let me put this argument a different way; had Tales of Graces been a PS3 game, the result would most likely have been the same, despite Vesperia's success.
thestopsign
Member
Durante said:
I'm going to guess that most Tales fans at least own a PS3, and maybe even a 360 depending on how hardcore they are, which means that a lot of them are probably buying FFXIII. I still personally think that Graces sales are fucking terrible, but it has a wee bit of an excuse.
Zerodoppler
Member
Tales of Graces bomba was expected. Why would you own a Wii if you enjoy RPG's? And if you don't own one, why pick one up for a single Tales game when you have every other console RPG going to the PS3?
oldie-newbie
Member
obonicus said:
No, basic laws must be shared by all the camps
Especially if the camp of intelligency is the little small camp :lol
BattleMonkey
Member
oldie-newbie said:
Trying to start something that isn't even happening.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
obonicus said:
2? I only remember Knight of Ratatosk. And that wasn't against the FFXIII juggernaut.
Nuclear Muffin said:
Bullshit.
Did FF13 possibly play a factor? I'll give you that. I think it probably took a bit of buzz away from it. But still, it released in the prime selling time for Wii software- right in the middle December where it looks like sales are going to be at their highest point in a year and a half or more, so IMO any lost sales from FF13 should more than be offset by foot traffic leading to extra sales.
It had a horrible first week, period, and unless it shows legs like the DS Tales games its going to be a massive disappointment, period.
Bel Marduk
Banned
Graces sales are disappointing but not a "bomba." Then again, GAF has a weird definition of bomba and MH3 was a bomba at one point too, so if even MH3 can't be defended why can ToG? :lol
The game's still gonna end up making a profit for them and I find it hard to believe they won't ever make another Tales game for the Wii and drop all the resources they made for Graces.
Also, I don't understand the mainline/spinoff thing. Did you guys realize or not that some of the PSP spinoffs outsold the DS ones? Last examples were RM2 outselling Hearts. Hearts came out same week as Dissidia and in this case ToG came right before FF XIII. So we have two possible scenarios:
1. Tales fans don't give two shits about mainline/spinoffs.
2. DS can't sell third party SW!
Hell even Graces sold better than Innocence/Hearts first week on the Wii.
Because there's a lot of RPGs on the Wii already released in Japan? You're probably on the other side of the world and don't know this though and/or don't keep up. Not to mention the VC. RPG fans will pick up a Wii for DQ X too.
The game's still gonna end up making a profit for them and I find it hard to believe they won't ever make another Tales game for the Wii and drop all the resources they made for Graces.
Also, I don't understand the mainline/spinoff thing. Did you guys realize or not that some of the PSP spinoffs outsold the DS ones? Last examples were RM2 outselling Hearts. Hearts came out same week as Dissidia and in this case ToG came right before FF XIII. So we have two possible scenarios:
1. Tales fans don't give two shits about mainline/spinoffs.
2. DS can't sell third party SW!
Hell even Graces sold better than Innocence/Hearts first week on the Wii.
Zerodoppler said:
Because there's a lot of RPGs on the Wii already released in Japan? You're probably on the other side of the world and don't know this though and/or don't keep up. Not to mention the VC. RPG fans will pick up a Wii for DQ X too.
Zerodoppler
Member
obonicus said:
I bet a lot of Tales fans traded in their console once Vesperia was announced for PS3.
BattleMonkey
Member
Bel Marduk said:
People really were not saying MH3 was bomba though, it was below expectations. Game shipped 1 million it's first week yet still has not sold off that initial shipment after almost 6 months? 1 million is good and capcom got their money already, but people were making some wild guesses on how much it was going to sell and reach almost PSP MH level of sales.
Tales situation is based on previous sales trends, this is one of the worst starts for the Tales series in a while, simple as that. And yes there is a trend of mainline versus side story sales of the Tales series. If this was on PS2 or any other platform people would be saying the same thing, but everyone is dead set thinking this is a Wii being picked on situation. Low sales are low sales.
oldie-newbie
Member
Durante said:
In fact, there is always an excuse : new IP, old franchise on the decline, number of spin offs, userbase, fans userbase, advertising, visibility on the store, etc...
I think you are right concerning the budget but not concerning expectations. In fact, even in the game companies, expectations are often wrong. Expectations are like predictions, i.e., just a bet...
It's just a matter of budget and profitability...
BattleMonkey
Member
schuelma said:
Many of the die hard Wii fans. Lot of them were making wild speculation based on that the franchise has grown greatly since it went to PSP and that it could not be compared to the sales of the PS2 games since it's now a much bigger monster. It went on for months in the Media Create and MH threads especially with people going "lol MH3 PSP port coming soon after"
Bel Marduk
Banned
BattleMonkey said:
Anyone who thought MH3 would reach PSP MH sales was stupid, simple as that. And what you're saying is that MH3 "bombed" at retail? Do we know if ToG "bombed" at retail, or according to Namco's expectations? We don't even have shipment numbers yet.
I never saw the DS Tales being picked on when they sold similarly and even less than ToG or the PSP spinoff Tales or whatever but everyone is really dead set on making it out to be that the Wii sucks at selling SW or some BS like that.
BattleMonkey said:
I think you're remembering things how you want to remember them. For better or worse I've been in this thread for almost 3 years and I'm struggling to think of any poster who seriously thought MH3 was going to sell anywhere close to the PSP versions.
The constant downplaying of MH3 is getting very tiring.
Bel Marduk said:
The issue is the DS has many other successful 3rd party franchises to hang its hat on. The Wii has had literally 3 mainline entries in somewhat popular series since its launch so when one of those games performs poorly it gets more attention.
BattleMonkey
Member
Bel Marduk said:
I didn't say it bombed, and I'm sure to Capcom it didn't especially since they already sold a million copies, like I said they got their money and I wouldn't doubt a budget rerelease in the future or updated version at a later date to cash in even more. Again like many others, those who do not see someone say the game was a success is immediately trolling the game and calling it a bomba when people are not. The game was a success for Capcom but these types of situations also put a negative impact on publishers for future releases/installments as retailers will see how long it took to sell that excess stock and in many cases they had to drop prices to get that excess stock to sell over half a year.
It basically tells capcom that they have to try harder, make even better game, hype it better, or whatever they need to do to insure future installments can sell just as good or even beat this ones. In the same sense capcom can easily see this as reaching new market on the Wii and that a future installment is going to be open to even larger install base as well as a whole bunch of new customers who jumped into the franchise with MH3.
Bel Marduk
Banned
schuelma said:
The point still stands that Graces is outselling the DS games. So really it's not the Wii's problem. Graces got caught up in the middle of bigger games. People are buying the other games instead. That's Namco's own problem. Still not a "bomba" though. If the game already made profit I'd hardly be surprised.
Bel Marduk
Banned
BattleMonkey said:
I think the problem with MH3 was that there were too many standalones. The CC bundles were selling loads. Next time Capcom should take that in mind. But, when it comes to me, if the publisher got money (and loads of money in the case of MH3) then it's in no way a bomba. Sales might be disappointing for some, but not to the extent of bomba, and definitely not in Graces' case.
BattleMonkey
Member
Bel Marduk said:
Again it's not about bomba but showing a decline in sales. So when this happens again it's another people are picking on the Wii issue? It just shows to Namco that the franchise is on decline or that the fans just aren't buying the game as much on the Wii and that they can do better elsewhere possibly.
And also your comparing portable side games to console mainline games. The mainline games have always trended higher than the portable side games. Also the portable games selling less is not much of an issue since the general production costs for portable titles tends to less than console games.
Bel Marduk
Banned
BattleMonkey said:
This gen, the portable ones have been selling similarly to the console ones, and in most cases more (in Japan). Namco need to stop overstuffing the market with Tales though and then maybe they'll sell more...
Though there is a rumor that they'll only do biannual releases from now on. Or...not kinda a rumor. It was on some Namco guy's blog. Read it on the Tales forums.
BattleMonkey said:
The only thing MH3 told Capcom was to ship more black controller bundles and don't flood the channel with standalones.
It was a documented problem with MHG Wii, MH3 Wii and even Koei saw it with SW3 if you look at what sold in the shipments.
schuelma said:
Yeah he is remembering a series of posts that never really existed, nobody was ever calling for 1m+. After MHG Wii sold ~200-300k most people were expecting maybe 2.5-3x for an excellent debut
markatisu said:
A few people were expecting ridiculous things from MH3 (like a >2M LTD) prior to launch based on MHP2G. A few of people were expecting low sales (<500k) prior to launch, based on previous home console sales of Monster Hunter, and low third party Wii sales for other franchises. Most people fell somewhere in between like you said.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Based on the latest Famitsu hardware numbers...
PSP comparisons: After 261 weeks, PSP is where PS2 was at 200.1 (+0.3) weeks (December 29, 2003), where DS was at 106.5 (+0.1) weeks (December 14, 2006), and where GBA was at 183.1 (+1.1) weeks (September 20, 2004).
X360 comparisons: After 209 weeks, X360 is where GCN was at 22.1 (+0.3) weeks (February 11, 2002), where PS3 was at 43.9 (+0.3) weeks (September 8, 2007), and where Wii was at 6.4 (+0.1) weeks (January 10, 2007).
PS3 comparisons: After 161 weeks, PS3 is where PS2 was at 62.9 (+1.1) weeks (May 12, 2001), where PSP was at 91.6 (+1.7) weeks (September 7, 2006), where GCN was at 226.7 (+3.0) weeks (January 13, 2006), and where Wii was at 53.3 (+0.6) weeks (December 4, 2007).
Wii comparisons: After 158 weeks, Wii is where GBA was at 106.1 (+0.7) weeks (March 31, 2003), where DS was at 81.4 (+0.6) weeks (June 21, 2006), where PS2 was at 128.4 (+1.3) weeks (August 14, 2002), and where PSP was at 176.5 (+1.1) weeks (April 24, 2008).
PSPgo comparisons: After 6 weeks, PSPgo is where GBm was at 0.4 (+0.0) weeks (September 14, 2005).
Famitsu Software Stuff
New Super Mario Bros. Wii has one of the quickest starts ever for a game not Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, or Pokémon; slightly outdoing its DS predecessor's first week.
FWIW it also passes up all the Super Mario Advance games; those are the only non-"New" 2D Marios we have modern data for.
Phantasy Star Portable 2 starts a bit lower than its predecessor.
Samurai Warriors 3 starts a LOT lower than 2004's original and 2006's sequel,
though it also creams Koei's previous Wii releases combined.
Layton 4 is starting slower than the previous two, though it's still pretty close to 2007's Layton 2.
Famitsu Software Pie: This week is notable for three reasons. First, Wii has its best percentage ever, beating the weeks of SSBB (47.0) and MK Wii (48.8). Second, thanks to a strong PSP week we get a rare week where DS is third. The last time DS was under 20% was... well, the week of MK Wii again. Third, PS2 has its lowest week ever.
Wii: 49.4
PSP: 24.7
DS: 18.3
PS3: 5.2
X360: 1.8
PS2: 0.5
Other: 0.1
PSP comparisons: After 261 weeks, PSP is where PS2 was at 200.1 (+0.3) weeks (December 29, 2003), where DS was at 106.5 (+0.1) weeks (December 14, 2006), and where GBA was at 183.1 (+1.1) weeks (September 20, 2004).
X360 comparisons: After 209 weeks, X360 is where GCN was at 22.1 (+0.3) weeks (February 11, 2002), where PS3 was at 43.9 (+0.3) weeks (September 8, 2007), and where Wii was at 6.4 (+0.1) weeks (January 10, 2007).
PS3 comparisons: After 161 weeks, PS3 is where PS2 was at 62.9 (+1.1) weeks (May 12, 2001), where PSP was at 91.6 (+1.7) weeks (September 7, 2006), where GCN was at 226.7 (+3.0) weeks (January 13, 2006), and where Wii was at 53.3 (+0.6) weeks (December 4, 2007).
Wii comparisons: After 158 weeks, Wii is where GBA was at 106.1 (+0.7) weeks (March 31, 2003), where DS was at 81.4 (+0.6) weeks (June 21, 2006), where PS2 was at 128.4 (+1.3) weeks (August 14, 2002), and where PSP was at 176.5 (+1.1) weeks (April 24, 2008).
PSPgo comparisons: After 6 weeks, PSPgo is where GBm was at 0.4 (+0.0) weeks (September 14, 2005).
Famitsu Software Stuff
New Super Mario Bros. Wii has one of the quickest starts ever for a game not Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, or Pokémon; slightly outdoing its DS predecessor's first week.
FWIW it also passes up all the Super Mario Advance games; those are the only non-"New" 2D Marios we have modern data for.
Phantasy Star Portable 2 starts a bit lower than its predecessor.
Samurai Warriors 3 starts a LOT lower than 2004's original and 2006's sequel,
though it also creams Koei's previous Wii releases combined.
Layton 4 is starting slower than the previous two, though it's still pretty close to 2007's Layton 2.
Famitsu Software Pie: This week is notable for three reasons. First, Wii has its best percentage ever, beating the weeks of SSBB (47.0) and MK Wii (48.8). Second, thanks to a strong PSP week we get a rare week where DS is third. The last time DS was under 20% was... well, the week of MK Wii again. Third, PS2 has its lowest week ever.
Wii: 49.4
PSP: 24.7
DS: 18.3
PS3: 5.2
X360: 1.8
PS2: 0.5
Other: 0.1