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[botticus]

Iwata's comments seem to suggest that they're not going to do that again.

It seems to me Iwata has been suggesting similar things long enough that we would have seem some change if there were going to be any. Perhaps this time it will be different.

 

[gogogow]

I was talking more software releases I guess. I think PS3 hardware sales have been incredibly impressive, no question, but I haven't seen much to think "wow, what an amazing software situation".

Well, TOV is one of the better selling PS3 game and that one was released in September. And I do think it was "wow, what an amazing software situation" for the PS3. There has been a healthy stream of popular games for 2 months since the PS3 slim was launched in Japan. The software line-up has been much better than the PSP and Wii. Of course the DS is still the software king.

 

[Brofist]

Wait for next week or the week after.

From 43k to under 10k in one week. Sounds doable.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

And that is certainly possible. If NSMB Wii isn't a system mover then I think Dragona's chart might be very apt. Nintendo is clearly banking a lot on it and like I said in a previous post I don't see much in 2010 yet.

Also, GT5 moving to March might be good for Sony in the long run. Releasing it in Dec. might very well have given PS3 the 2009 YTD crown, but IMO having such a strong release in early 2010 could lead to a better overall situation.

Yes, yes, and yes.

 

[cvxfreak]

Anyone who would have thought hard about how the PS3 Slim could sell should not be surprised at its increased sales over the last 2.5 months. Making fun of the PS3's sales was so fashionable last summer that I feel it clouded a lot of reasonable judgment as to its potential.

The PS3 returning to its original model sales or marginally higher was always an unreasonable expectation for 2009 and early 2010. I don't know why it was widely accepted myself. I said the PS3 Slim was gonna be huge and so far that hasn't been a mistaken assumption.

 

[schuelma]

Wii Sports: ~4K yen
$200 U.S. dollars ~= 18K yen

Wii without Wii Sports should then be ~14K yen. Wii is actually at 20K yen (~$220). Wii is most expensive, without a pack-in, in the territory where it's selling the worst. Any idea why?


.

Yup. Makes zero sense to me. I don't know if its arrogance or what, but having your console the most expensive in your home region where sales are the worst is ridiculous.

 

[schuelma]

The PS3 returning to its original model sales or marginally higher was always an unreasonable expectation for 2009 and early 2010. I don't know why it was widely accepted myself. I said the PS3 Slim was gonna be huge and so far that hasn't been a mistaken assumption.

My original line of thinking was that the price was still too high for mainstream acceptance and that without it being accompanied by huge releases, it wasn't going to have nearly the impact it has had. I also didn't think the form factor would make any real difference.

Obviously I was very mistaken which is why I live in New Jersey and not Tokyo.

 

[cvxfreak]

Yup. Makes zero sense to me. I don't know if its arrogance or what, but having your console the most expensive in your home region where sales are the worst is ridiculous.

The high Yen is still considered a financial and economic irregularity. In general, the better the world economy, the lower the Yen. When various countries around the world begin raising interest rates (the U.S. and Japan will be the last to do so), the Yen and Dollar will weaken. The Yen will generally strengthen or weaken faster than the Dollar. So, if the Yen weakens, then Nintendo will be left in a pretty bad position for Japanese pricing. It's still a weak argument and I'm not sure why it keeps getting brought up.

Plus, Nintendo's a Japanese company. Japanese pricing shouldn't be high on their priority list. I mean, look at the DS Lite and DSi prices, which are certainly not priced for international consideration either.

 

[[Nintex]]

All Nintendo needs to do is release games, which seems like an easy task for a software company that's been around forever. Instead they wasted resources on Wii No Ma and other ideas that end up nowhere. It would've been nice if they had more than a single game for the Motion Plus too. Didn't anyone at NCL say: "Lets make a Star Fox game for this!". I don't understand what went wrong they handled the DS much, much better in terms of software support. The system is out for 5 years and never suffered a drought, sure third parties are helping alot but Nintendo did a great job with numerous titles.

How hard can it be to build a Kirby Wii platform game? Why does it take 5 years? It seems that for a while 'all' of Nintendo was in development hell instead of just a few projects like before:lol

 

[onipex]

Wasn't the PS3 supposed to be under 10k by now? That's what I was told anyway.

Yup, people forgot the slim model affect. Current owners upgrading plus new owners leads to good sales. Plus a price cut and good soofware. Sony has done a good job.

 

[schuelma]

I don't understand what went wrong they handled the DS much, much better in terms of software support. The system is out for 5 years and never suffered a drought, sure third parties are helping alot but Nintendo did a great job with numerous titles.

I may be really off base here, but my impression isn't that Nintendo has supported the DS that much better first party wise. I think the difference is 3rd parties started picking up the slack very early on which led to a much healthier market.

 

[gogogow]

Wii Sports: ~4K yen
$200 U.S. dollars ~= 18K yen

Wii without Wii Sports should then be ~14K yen. Wii is actually at 20K yen (~$220). Wii is most expensive, without a pack-in, in the territory where it's selling the worst. Any idea why?

Because it doesn't work that way, with direct conversions and stuff. Why isn't the PS3 €199 in Europe? Why are Blu-Rays 6090 yen/$66 and DVDs 5040 yen/$56 in Japan? Which is like 3 times more expensive than in the US and Europe.

 

[donny2112]

I mean, look at the DS Lite and DSi prices, which are certainly not priced for international consideration either.

There, the "software overcomes price" mantra is being utilized, though. I think it has more to do with the perception of a price drop in Japan predicting a price drop in the rest of the world. It wouldn't, but Nintendo's probably concerned that it may weaken demand outside of Japan in unwarranted expectation of a price drop.

When the Wii was first launched at 25K yen, I think that worked out to about $225, IIRC. In that sense, Wii is only back at its launch price in Japan.

Why isn't the PS3 €199 in Europe?

Mostly VAT.

 

[[Nintex]]

I may be really off base here, but my impression isn't that Nintendo has supported the DS that much better first party wise. I think the difference is 3rd parties started picking up the slack very early on which led to a much healthier market.

Just look at this list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_published_by_Nintendo#Nintendo_DS
Plenty of games every year overall a very diverse line-up compared to the Wii.

 

[Brofist]

Wii Sports: ~4K yen
$200 U.S. dollars ~= 18K yen

Wii without Wii Sports should then be ~14K yen. Wii is actually at 20K yen (~$220). Wii is most expensive, without a pack-in, in the territory where it's selling the worst. Any idea why?

.

Well we know none of the 3 price in accordance to the exchange rates. They all still seem to go by the old 100 yen = $1 standard, which with the current rates make all the systems look more expensive.

beaten

 

[donny2112]

Well we know none of the 3 price in accordance to the exchange rates. They all still seem to go by the old 100 yen = $1 standard, which with the current rates make all the systems look more expensive.

Even going with the 100 yen = $1 standard, we have a Wii without a pack-in game selling at the same price as a Wii with a pack-in game. As I've said before, price parity doesn't make sense when there's not SKU parity, too.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I may be really off base here, but my impression isn't that Nintendo has supported the DS that much better first party wise. I think the difference is 3rd parties started picking up the slack very early on which led to a much healthier market.

No, I don't think you're off base at all. I remember reading sales threads back before the DS Lite came out and before the system really took off and there was a general sense that the DS was only rewarding Nintendo, that there were few third party successes (was this around the time of the "300k is the benchmark for success"?) etc. There had been a reasonable amount of third party support even then but around that time we started seeing the first big wave of serious third party effort on the system and it started to tear away.

If the DS had had to struggle on with Nintendo support only, with a few token "big" games here and there from third parties, I doubt it would be as successful as it is today - phenomenons like Brain Training could only have taken it so far, just as Wii Sports and Wii Fit have for Wii.

 

[Grampasso]

I posted this in the SE earnings thread, but I thought I'd repost it here, since you guys will probably have a better informed response.

This is interesting. In the MC thread, I was asking just how high a game's attach rate cold be, and doubting that FF13 could hit 2M. I didn't realize a previous game had reached close to 50%. I guess 2M isn't impossible.

There is no doubt that amount can be reached LTD, but in the last (or the former one?) thread we were debating about how much FFXIII could sell until the end of the year. I also posted a link to a query to garaph showing the dropoff in latest official FF releases after 2 weeks. My only question now is, will the X360 version affect in any way PS3 sales? This is unprecedented for a FF title so it's quite a wildcard to make assumptions.

 

[cvxfreak]

There, the "software overcomes price" mantra is being utilized, though. I think it has more to do with the perception of a price drop in Japan predicting a price drop in the rest of the world. It wouldn't, but Nintendo's probably concerned that it may weaken demand outside of Japan in unwarranted expectation of a price drop.

When the Wii was first launched at 25K yen, I think that worked out to about $225, IIRC. In that sense, Wii is only back at its launch price in Japan.

That sense happens to be irrelevant. Why would the US Dollar be the main factor for Japanese consumers in pricing their goods? Worker X who has been earning Yen since 2006 will still save ¥5000 when buying a Wii today and not anytime before November 1.

And I have to repeat myself: exchange rates are fluid. The Yen was at ¥95 to $1 when Monster Hunter 3 hit with the Black Wii. Now it's at ¥89. The Wii is priced and SKUed in accordance with domestic Japanese sales situations and not foreign ones. If the Yen hits ¥95 in December, which is possible, then this argument just becomes that much more useless.

You can argue the value proposition by not including Wii Sports in the package, but that didn't stop Wii sales three years ago, so I don't know why it would now.

 

[schuelma]

My only question now is, will the X360 version affect in any way PS3 sales? This is unprecedented for a FF title so it's quite a wildcard to make assumptions.

I really don't think so, considering its only planned for a Western release right now.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Couldn't Nintendo easily begin bundling Wii Sports in Japan at minimal cost?

Seems like an easy way to give a minor sales bump.

 

[schuelma]

Couldn't Nintendo easily begin bundling Wii Sports in Japan at minimal cost?

Seems like an easy way to give a minor sales bump.

Considering that it barely sells anymore on its own (at least based on the weekly data we get), that seems like a reasonable option.

 

[gogogow]

Mostly VAT.

Yeah, 50% VAT, sure.

And why are you suddenly talking about the Wii price, like that has anything to do with the situation the Wii is in. The Wii was selling like hotcakes a year ago when the system was more expensive. It doesn't have (good) games atm (outside of MHT released a while ago) and that's the only reason it's doing poorly for the last I don't know how many weeks/months, but should do better in the coming weeks. 99% of the Japanese consumers who buys or wants to buy a Wii doesn't care about dollar/yen exchange rates or whatever.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Couldn't Nintendo easily begin bundling Wii Sports in Japan at minimal cost?

Seems like an easy way to give a minor sales bump.

I think they need to do more than that, TBH. Europe now has a Wii Sports/Wii Sports Resort/MotionPlus bundle, and I think that would be a better start going forward - another price drop would not be a good idea, so bundling and other ways of improving the value of the system at the price point they're at seems a better option.

 

[schuelma]

Yeah, 50% VAT, sure.

And why are you suddenly talking about the Wii price, like that has anything to do with the situation the Wii is in. The Wii was selling like hotcakes a year ago when the system was more expensive. It doesn't have (good) games atm (outside of MHT released a while ago) and that's the only reason it's doing poorly for the last I don't know how many weeks/months, but should do better in the coming weeks. 99% of the Japanese consumers who buys or wants to buy a Wii doesn't care about dollar/yen exchange rates or whatever.

I agree that content is always most important, but I do think Nintendo could be more aggressive in Japan whether its further price drops or bundling.

 

[duckroll]

Second week PSPgo sales at 15,000: :lol :lol :lol

So can we confirm that the "first week" of the PSP Go is now factually 43k, and that it bombed? We've been patient and waited a whole week, and the result is exactly what we said it would be.

 

[donny2112]

That sense happens to be irrelevant.

Basically. I just found it an interesting point. However, I very much think that Nintendo chose 20K yen in part because it looks like price parity with foreign markets. Nintendo is not blind to those comparisons, and if the Wii was 18K Yen in Japan, Reggie Fils-Aime would be asked multiple times why the Wii is cheaper in Japan than the U.S. and when's the next Wii price cut coming.

You can argue the value proposition by not including Wii Sports in the package, but that didn't stop Wii sales three years ago, so I don't know why it would now.

It's been discussed before that the lack of a pack-in could've very well aided the start of Wii's decline two years ago. At this point, a pack-in of just Wii Sports wouldn't make much difference, though. Europe's Wii Sports + WSR pack-in, maybe.

And why are you suddenly talking about the Wii price, like that has anything to do with the situation the Wii is in.

Because I said before the 20K price drop was in effect that Nintendo needed to take drastic actions in Japan and that a drop to 15K yen would be a good start. i.e. I'm not "suddenly" talking about the Wii price in Japan.

 

[fanboi]

So can we confirm that the "first week" of the PSP Go is now factually 43k, and that it bombed? We've been patient and waited a whole week, and the result is exactly what we said it would be.

You feel good huh? Well go and play your Xbo... oh wait

 

[duckroll]

2006-03-27 - [NDS] Contact (Marvelous Entertainment) - 6,064
2009-11-05 - [NDS] Sakura Note (Marvelous Entertainment) - 2,000

I don't see Audio Inc sticking around much longer. The guy should really get a job in another industry...

 

[cvxfreak]

Basically. I just found it an interesting point. However, I very much think that Nintendo chose 20K yen in part because it looks like price parity with foreign markets. Nintendo is not blind to those comparisons, and if the Wii was 18K Yen in Japan, Reggie Fils-Aime would be asked multiple times why the Wii is cheaper in Japan than the U.S. and when's the next Wii price cut coming.

I think it's ¥20,000 because of the DSL and DSi myself, as well as Nintendo not being too cautious should the Yen return to its traditional value of above $1. And looking back, the Wii wasn't cheaper in Japan in 2006/2007 because it didn't have Wii Sports in it; it was cheaper because the Yen was undervalued at that time. The look of price parity helps, I suppose, but I can't imagine Nintendo prioritizing that very much, and I'm not convinced the DS's software offering or increased sales making that the exception to the rule either.

Nintendo's never priced handhelds and consoles exactly the same in Japan, and handhelds have always been cheaper except for the two years when the GC and DS were Nintendo's frontline products.

 

[DMeisterJ]

So can we confirm that the "first week" of the PSP Go is now factually 43k, and that it bombed? We've been patient and waited a whole week, and the result is exactly what we said it would be.

Yes duckroll!

Wasn't the PS3 supposed to be under 10k by now? That's what I was told anyway.

Oh man, those were hilarious weeks! I'm so glad I stuck my ground in firm belief that that wouldn't be the case for a time to come.

 

[duckroll]

You feel good huh? Well go and play your Xbo... oh wait

What the fuck dude. Seriously, why did you have to get personal.

 

[Grampasso]

I really don't think so, considering its only planned for a Western release right now.

Oh, I think that is a smart move for Square at least to take a while to launch in Japan (it would be quite stupid IMHO not doing it at all considering they don't have to translate anything =))

 

[fanboi]

What the fuck dude. Seriously, why did you have to get personal.

My name + Sony = <3

 

[ilbambino]

And to think that some people expected the PS3 to be around 10K by november :lol

 

[schuelma]

And to think that some people expected the PS3 to be around 10K by november :lol

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[donny2112]

I think it's ¥20,000 because of the DSL and DSi myself,

Quite possibly. In that case, DSiL

Spoiler

iving

L

Spoiler

arge

being the Wii's price could mean that the Wii won't be seeing another price drop anytime soon.

as well as Nintendo not being too cautious should the Yen return to its traditional value of above $1.

Since they'd likely still be profiting on the system, I think this would be more of a justification to keep the price high than an actual motivating factor (Hopefully that distinction makes sense).

I'm not convinced the DS's software offering or increased sales making that the exception to the rule either.

Iwata did say that price cuts would only be used if they couldn't rejuvenate sales with software. So far, DS hasn't needed much rejuvenation in sales to warrant a price cut. If/when DSL is fazed out, maybe DSi/DSiLL would shift down into the DSL/DSi price arenas, but I still think they'd only do that if sales were being impacted (or if they needed to clear out a price range for a new handheld system).

Nintendo's never priced handhelds and consoles exactly the same in Japan,

Will the DSiLL/Wii be the first equivalency since GCN's clearance days, then?

 

[Brofist]

Even going with the 100 yen = $1 standard, we have a Wii without a pack-in game selling at the same price as a Wii with a pack-in game. As I've said before, price parity doesn't make sense when there's not SKU parity, too.

True, but when the Wii came out in Japan at the exchange rate then it was basically $210 without the game. Didn't really seem like a big deal at that time. Now it seems like a bigger difference, but as you mentioned the pack-in would do little now anyway.

 

[jcm]

Nice for PS3- was expecting a nice little bump from WE. Thought Wii might hold a bit better since it actually went up last week. Should be interesting for sure- with Crystal Bearers impending bomb there really isn't much for Wii (outside of Taiko 2) until NSMB Wii on 12/3.

A couple weeks ago people were calling the Wii's end of year software lineup the best ever. Are all the biggies in December?

 

[gogogow]

Because I said before the 20K price drop was in effect that Nintendo needed to take drastic actions in Japan and that a drop to 15K yen would be a good start. i.e. I'm not "suddenly" talking about the Wii price in Japan.

They've just dropped the price and it didn't do much. Which proved that the HW sales has absolutely nothing to do with the Wii price to begin with. It was already at an very affordable price (original launch price), also see Gamecube. Iwata knows that, but he was pressured by the 299 PS3 Slim, otherwise we wouldn't have seen a 20k yen Wii to begin with.

 

[ilbambino]

Was COD:MW2 already released in Japan? Any expectations for it?

 

[donny2112]

They've just dropped the price and it didn't do much.

Possibly because it wasn't enough. PS3 dropped 10,000 Yen. Wii dropped 5,000 Yen. I think the psychological impact of matching the amount of PS3's drop would've made a much bigger difference.

Which proved that the HW sales has absolutely nothing to do with the Wii price to begin with.

It proved that Wii's price was not as big an impacting factor as PS3's. I think most would've agreed to that before either had dropped.

Iwata knows that, but he was pressured by the 299 PS3 Slim, otherwise we wouldn't have seen a 20k yen Wii to begin with.

The last two years of Wii sales in Japan might've been a motivation, too.

Was COD:MW2 already released in Japan? Any expectations for it?

December.

Edit:
What he said.
\/\/\/

 

[cvxfreak]

Was COD:MW2 already released in Japan? Any expectations for it?

I think 12/10, and it's getting a 360 bundle. Should do okay for what it is.

 

[Yoboman]

Oh, I think that is a smart move for Square at least to take a while to launch in Japan (it would be quite stupid IMHO not doing it at all considering they don't have to translate anything =))

Pretty sure Sony locked it down in Japan, even if they couldn't lock down FFXIII in the rest of the world

Interestingly, if Sony had the momentum they do now before I don't think it would've gone multiplatform

 

[Somnid]

A couple weeks ago people were calling the Wii's end of year software lineup the best ever. Are all the biggies in December?

I'd say from this point out Wii has the advantage in software releases, if it is going to climb back up these next few weeks will be the time.

 

[gogogow]

Possibly because it wasn't enough. PS3 dropped 10,000 Yen. Wii dropped 5,000 Yen. I think the psychological impact of matching the amount of PS3's drop would've made a much bigger difference.

It proved that Wii's price was not as big an impacting factor as PS3's. I think most would've agreed to that before either had dropped.

The last two years of Wii sales in Japan might've been a motivation, too.

Why is there no motivation to develop games? It's their own fault, they dropped the ball. Their last minute measure was to announce a price drop. Annoucing something only takes a minute, but developing games takes years.

Giving it away for free would made a much bigger difference too. Lowering the price by 10,000 yen of a 25,000 yen product is not realistic. Nintendo needs some room for further pricecuts.

 

[schuelma]

A couple weeks ago people were calling the Wii's end of year software lineup the best ever. Are all the biggies in December?

Mostly. NSMB Wii, Pikachu game, SW3, ToG.

November should have been good, but M&S had a poor first week and Crystal Bearers will likely be disappointing.

 

[Somnid]

Was the original M&S a seller right off the bat? I want to say it wasn't but achieved success over time.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Was the original M&S a seller right off the bat? I want to say it wasn't but achieved success over time.

IIRC, it did something like 60k first week and a couple of hundred lifetime. Will check...

EDIT:

67k FW / 594k LTD, according to Famitsu. I doubt the Winter Olympics version will match it, but it might give some indication as to the legs of the title.

 

[Yoboman]

Mostly. NSMB Wii, Pikachu game, SW3, ToG.

November should have been good, but M&S had a poor first week and Crystal Bearers will likely be disappointing.

What does PS3 have?