lunchwithyuzo
Banned
So Nintendo signed this huge exclusivity deal for the biggest 3rd party franchise in Japan and just decided to keep quiet about for the next 9-10 months? Even while 3DS was flopping?
Media Create Sales: Week 13, 2013 (Mar 25 - Mar 31)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
DR2K
Banned
Are we applying common sense to Nintendo's business tactics?
If there was any cash involved, then a portables only deal doesn't make any sense at all, unless it was for a lot longer than 3 years. Why would Nintendo drop moneyhats for a deal that might not get them anything at all. If Capcom had their mind set on bringing MH to Vita, then they could scam the cash from Nintendo, then release MH4 on the PS3 1.5 years later, and then drop MH4P on Vita exactly 3 years to the day after the deal was over (and everyone would have been expecting it to be coming to Vita as soon as MH4 on PS3 was announced).
And then Nintendo paid for what exactly?
MH4 is on 3DS because Capcom wanted it to be on 3DS. I don't doubt that Nintendo agreed to help out with marketing/promotion, as well as agreeing to help publish MH4 and MH3U in the west. But if they were going to do a moneyhat deal, the moneyhats would be for the game MH4, not for some nebulous, semi-meaningless portables only exclusivity.
If Capcom wants to bring MH to Vita, they'll do so. For now, they are on the 3DS because that's where they want to be.
Well that was a post full of naïvety!
Anyway, let's for the sake of argument say there is a three year exclusivity deal in place, as rumours have suggested.
With MH4 due out this summer, MHP4th could come out in December 2014, which would honour the exclusivity deal, and would be the same distance from MH4 as MHP3rd was from MH3. Considering the ridiculous amounts of other "hunting" games coming to Vita this year, I would be surprised if the Vita audience isn't primed for a major MH game at that point in time.
The main issue with working on a title for Vita is that their previous assets would be mostly unusable. PS2 > PSP > Wii > PSP > 3DS largely worked with the same models, textures etc. Moving to a higher resolution would obviously mean some extra effort. They'll have to do it at some point, of course, but are they ready for it now?
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
BTW that's very often what "moneyhatting" IS
Well yeah - I'll be the first to admit that I'm not on the board with either Nintendo or Capcom, so I automatically fall within the realm of being naive with any opinions that I proffer - but what is it that you disagree with specifically?
Absolutely. But I'm referring specifically to all the posts that seem to suggest there were these giant transfers of cash going from to Nintendo to Capcom. Helping out with some publishing and co-marketing is a whole different level from just cutting checks for the tens of millions of dollars that would be necessary to get Capcom to switch one of their premiere series off of their preferred platform and exclusively onto a platform that they were lukewarm about at best anyway.
electroplankton
Banned
I like all this wishful thinking but 1. when MH4 will be released the userbase will already be moved to 3DS (not 100%, of course, but a good part of it), hence it will be difficult to impose another MH title on another platform with an abysmal installed base; 2. nothing assures that Capcom will develop a full new entry on Vita when eventually it brings the IP there; it might well be a Portable 3rd G with HD graphic enhancement and nothing more.
The point you are missing is that the discount was for the digital version through Square-Enix's online shop, so even if all 600K Wii buyers upgraded on Day 1, it wouldn't be tracked in MC or Famitsu.
Uh no. We don't need the digital version sales to know that it didn't sell well. The Wii U hardware sales would be much higher if it did sell well digitally. Think a little bit.
Man, where are yesterday's US eShop charts? I didn't remind you because I thought it wasn't needed, boy was I wrong
Well we only have a few months to wait until MH4 releases, then we'll see how your userbase assumptions pan out.
Roland Deschain
Member
Do software prices in Japan plummet as fast as they do in the west? I haven't bought a retail game on day 1 in a long time because in a month's time (if that) it'll have dropped significantly in price.
What you actually rent is the install discs, at Tsutaya. It's free and you also get a trial registration code which allows to play for free for one week. After that you can buy a full registration code for around 3500 yen, so basically the game is discounted at Tsutaya.
I'm not sure if they are following up this promotion with a Wii U trial but the Wii one runs on Wii U as well, obviously. You still need a USB stick.
It's #1 but that doesn't say much. Hokuto no Ken was #1 too when it released. Yesterday it had just above 200 ratings, 4 1/2 stars. Game & Wario is #2, had just above 100 ratings, 4 1/2 stars.
These games are actually well received, people liked the beta on Miiverse too. One said he bought the U for MH but ended up playing the DQX beta because it is so much fun.
I still think the Wii U price is hindering the console's mainstream success. MH could sell more, DQX could sell more, especially to fans of MH. DQIX tried to get extra sales from handheld multiplayer fans and it worked, online multiplayer could do the same on Wii U. If it could tap into the audience that bought the games on Wii.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
I doubt its going to surpass MH3P but we will see.
You don't think MH4 is going to sell well?
I really don't think it's going to do MHP3rd numbers. Define "sell well" in this case.
Somewhere in between 3.5 and 4 million seems like a good target.
Edit: Including the BEST releases in that total too, btw.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
MH3P did 2.1 million in its first week and 4 million by 7 weeks. LTD is 4.5 million iirc.
I see MH4 doing 1.5 million -1.8 million in its first week and 3 million by 7 weeks. Possible LTD of 4 million.
I see MH4 doing 1.5 million -1.8 million in its first week and 3 million by 7 weeks. Possible LTD of 4 million.
And Stadium even was a million seller in Japan alone and the 5th best selling game on N64, just below OoT.
It is similar to the I11 games on Wii. Console companion games to handheld franchises never quite rival their original success and they usually are pure multiplayer and lacking proper single player campaigns but if the franchise is big enough they can even reach million seller status.
You think MH would've sold on par with the PSP releases if it was on Vita day 1?? That's as wishful as thinking it will outgrow them on 3DS, if not more.
Magicpaint
Member
There was a lot of MH titles leading to MHP3 that really drove those sales to the stratosphere. MH4 has had just MH3G for preparation. But yeah MH4 doing beyond 2.5 - 3 million LTD seems rather optimistic to me, but we'll see I guess. Now a MH4G...
Bruno MB
Member
You're asking for the impossible, some people will never get over it.
Monster Hunter 3G is going to reach 2 million mark, so over 3 million units should be an easy target for Monster Hunter 4.
Moor-Angol
Banned
Project X Zone says yes.
just one game in one shop in one city....
PxZ actually is sold at 2980yen at Sofmap, i saw a used copy for 980yen in Liberty ( don't know why i didn't grab it....)
BishopLamont
Banned
MH3G did extraordinarily well on the 3DS and on top of that the franchise is still growing.
4M is a lock. How much over 4M is the question.
4M is a lock. How much over 4M is the question.
Magicpaint
Member
I guess a BEST release would crawl it past the 3m mark, but I still feel the original release will be somewhere around that ball park mainly because the entire fanbase is still not here with just MH3G. It will however show noticeable growth with MH4 and then there can be a 4G that completes the transition.
Yeah, it's going to do well. You don't change platforms (even if it would be the successor of the last one) and expect everybody to switch from day 1.
So it was always going to take a couple releases to grow the userbase and lure existing players.
In my opinion Vita doesn't 'need' Monster Hunter anymore. It's always had bigger problems.
Of course it won't reach MHP3rd numbers. MH4 wouldn't be able to sell as much as its predecessor on any platform right now. That's kind of a silly condition to have.
Haha. It will never stop
Vita does need Monster Hunter more than the 3DS did. But Vita will not get a Monster Hunter. Getting MH on the Vita would involve significant effort on Capcom's part when it comes to creation of new assets and visuals and that simply isn't the way MH works. MH switched from PS to Nintendo on consoles simply because Capcom wanted to keep using the same assets and it's doing the same on handhelds.Capcom are being smart here and trying to get the most money for the small investment.
metalslimer
Member
No MH switched because Capcom realized they had a much better opportunity to expand on the 3DS along with some likely incentives. By your logic, most new games would go to wiiu this coming generation. They could have easily kept the same assets for Vita.
electroplankton
Banned
Is Capcom expecting MH4 to sell as well as MHP3rd? I would say no way.
Probably, no other MH is going to do MHP3rd numbers. Even if it would have been released cross-platform PSP / Vita in 2013. I mean, those are not numbers to consider as a benchmark for the series. MH4 is gonna sell several millions but there's no way it's going to push close to the 5 million frontier.
I like this reasoning. Problem is that a new MH wouldn't have the effort you're implying, and it would have probably been a slightly better MH3 with HD graphics. MH fanbase is so dedicated that they don't care the graphics a lot. MH4 is on 3DS mainly because it was the only viable option at that time.
Of course. But no, Capcom did it on 3DS because Nintendo gave them money. How much are we sure of that by the way? Or am I wrong at all?
I'm curious about MH4 numbers. Because MH "portable / portable G" spin-offs always did better than the main entries!
My logic only applies to how Capcom is dealing with MH. Honestly there was a time when both Vita and 3DS were at the same price tag, 3DS was selling awfully and Capcom still made the jump to the 3DS even getting Nintendo to create an accessory so that people could play MH easier, or in the same way they could have on the Vita.
If you really look at the assets used in MH games from the PS2 era they have pretty much stayed the same, along with the graphics. You have PS2-Wii jump that ensured that, then Portable series on the PSP which maintain the same standard of graphics and now PSP or Wii jumping to 3DS.
Now I don't doubt that Nintendo offered incentives, whereas Sony thought 'we made this awesome handheld that developers actually contributed to creating, it's what they wanted so they're bound to make games for it' and left it at that (it was a half step away from their PS3 attitude and one mistake that they seemed to have remedied with the PS4.
All I'm saying is that even if there is a 3 year deal with Nintendo for MH, I doubt we'll ever see MH coming to Vita simply because staying on the 3DS is making too much sense when it comes to the games' development.
metalslimer
Member
What? MH went to 3ds before vita even came out and it was in development before the 3ds came out. Hell the logic is flawed simply because things like mhp3rd hd and 3U exists. If Capcom is so concerned about being cheap, why are they investing in ps4 at all. Surely Deep Down should be using ps3 assets? The whole Capcom is so cheap angle only works if you selectively ignore the rest of the company.
electroplankton
Banned
What're you saying it's not factually correcy.
3DS and vita were not in the market at the same time with the same price, since 3DS price cut happened before vita launched. And it was announced just 5 months after the launch of the platform. MH development started on 3DS in December 2010 as a previous Iwata Asks confirmed, so when both 3DS and Vita weren't in the market.
MH on 3DS likely came after some agreements with Nintendo, but it was also a smart business decision. How the successor of the DS couldn't have had a MH game? DS didn't because of hardware issues.
The post being responded to implied that sales were low despite the prospect of people upgrading for a discount, which was the exact opposite of the reality of what the discounted upgrade would result in. You just missed the point of the post.
grimshawish
Banned
Nintendo would not pay for MH.
Face it. If the DS could run MH it would have had it.
It makes sense to Capcom not to be competing with the 3DS. If Sony won't support its handhelds then why on earth should Capcom AND have to pay Sony for it?
Face it. If the DS could run MH it would have had it.
It makes sense to Capcom not to be competing with the 3DS. If Sony won't support its handhelds then why on earth should Capcom AND have to pay Sony for it?
djplaeskool
Member
I think PxZ is special in this case, as it must have been hilariously overshipped.
I just bought the First Print Limited Edition yesterday for Y1850
test_account
XP-39C²
I agree, i dont really like that the word 'clone' is used for games just because they looks similar to something else. Maybe that is what people mean when they say clone though, but i feel there should be made a distinction between being inspired and being a clone. With clone, i think of a game that pretty much doesnt have anything different compared to something else.
I think Square Enix had a deal with Nintendo, then it makes sense why it is only on Wii and WiiU. I do however agree that it is a bit surprising that there is not PC version announced by now. Maybe we will see it in a few months.
I think it is much better that the steep decline is happening right now at the end of the second trilogy, rather than giving Level5 false hope that the formula isn't completely stale yet resulting in another trilogy announcement with more of the same. This way, with the second trilogy closing on such a low note, it should definitely motivate them to take a fresh look at the franchise and consider carefully how to expand on it in a different way. In the end that's probably better for both fans of Layton and for Level5.
WAR recon zero
Banned
So we need to wait another week for vita?
wow, I hope the Vita Jump game will be wise to offer a mass market gameplay for the mass market characters ...Project X Zone says yes.
BlackLagoon
Member
...you seem to be forgetting the Wii U release. If the assets are good enough for "next gen", they ought to get by on the Vita, no?
cj_iwakura
Member
Wow, no love for Fate's success? I hope we managed to get it localized.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
That would mean Level-5 actually putting some effort into Layton and not just shitting out another 3 games with a new coat of paint.
Not very likely.
The latest Layton released in USA has tanked and it doesn't seem to be doing much better in Europe.
I would think Hino is going to make drastic changes to the series or give it a break.
Takamura-San
Member
Wait for what?
slaughterking
Member
for Vita
I think they put a lot of effort into Layton. The formula has definitely gotten rather stale, but it's not really for lack of effort but rather lack of a pressing need to shake it up. I'm sure they'll shake it up after this.