Well, they didn't overship for the purpose of beating the PS3 for the year (they still lost that battle to the 3DS anyway). Retailers legitimately expected the 360 to sell more during Christmas than it ended up selling. But yeah, I expect that they did end up overshipping during the Oct-Dec period.
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Media Create Sales: Week 14, 2012 (Apr 02 - Apr 08)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Well, they didn't overship for the purpose of beating the PS3 for the year (they still lost that battle to the 3DS anyway). Retailers legitimately expected the 360 to sell more during Christmas than it ended up selling. But yeah, I expect that they did end up overshipping during the Oct-Dec period.
Well it's not like Sony has been rolling in the dough from their own software in the west. Certainly I don't think it's nearly worth completely destroying their Japanese presence.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
bleuuugh
no thanks - the Vita can and possibly will be the right move. I see a few people saying wrong machine at the wrong time. If it gets a price cut - then what?
It's by the by, theres a few issues with the Vita but the biggest one is the support. I'm pretty sure it's got at least some support but the Vita is almost certainly going to be under the same pressures that the 3DS was from 3rd Parties : "either this thing starts selling or we look at alternatives..."
Again - i like the vita a lot, it's a great machine but it's a luxury item in rought times at the moment and there's little that would drive non-hardcore gamers to it. It either needs a killer exclusive title (difficult), a raft of good/upper tier support (less difficult), and a reduction in costs (painful, but looking like a "necessary evil" from Sony's perspective)
test_account
XP-39C²
True, i was just thinking about where they have invested the most. They havnt invested as much in Japan, and i was wondering why they havnt done more there. They didnt do that much on the PSP either there as far as i know.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Of the three titles you mentioned, only Gran Turismo sells to a Japanese audience and even that title didn't light the Media Create charts up and was the lowest selling of past games.
Yes, unfortunately the only one Sony can really quickly implement is a price drop or some sort of bundling initiative. Software support takes time and while I have been extremely pleased with the launch titles of the Vita the MC numbers tell me that Japan is less so and will need something else.
Is a price cut for the VITA even a possibility at this point in time? How does Sony go about making that feasible?
Sony made the fucking mistake of not building their first party IP's and now it is biting them in the ass. Why should Square Enix, CAPCOM, SEGA, Konami etc invest near PS3 level resources developing for the VITA when they could either develop for the 3DS or PS3? (platforms that have both sold more than the VITA) The VITA is a gaming unit that has no identity and until Sony does something drastic the status quo aint changing much.
Sony made the fucking mistake of not building their first party IP's and now it is biting them in the ass. Why should Square Enix, CAPCOM, SEGA, Konami etc invest near PS3 level resources developing for the VITA when they could either develop for the 3DS or PS3? (platforms that have both sold more than the VITA) The VITA is a gaming unit that has no identity and until Sony does something drastic the status quo aint changing much.
They've got the cash in the bank to take the short term hit in order of going for the long term gain. It's the same scenario as Nintendo and the 3DS when that got a price drop.
More, obviously. It would also be a different game.
They really should have been aware of the perception 358/2 Days and Re:Coded left behind and released a KH3D demo. It was used quite effectively with Theatrhythm, and they seem to have an aggressive demo strategy for Bravely Default.
Souldriver
Member
Wut?
This is really weird. South Korea is like the alternate reality twin of Japan. Very high tech and advanced. It weirds me out to think there isn't a decent Nintendo or Playstation presence on that market. To think markets like Ukraine get those products earlier than South Korea... It's just weird.
You learn something new every day.
frankie_baby
Member
sony are nowhere near in the same position as nintendo were
Are you sure about that?
They haven't got as much as Nintendo but $10 Billion in the bank is more than enough to cope with a Vita price drop.
frankie_baby
Member
when the company is spread so thinly and far and raking up huge losses 10b in the bank dont stretch far, not to mention unlike nintendo they have a shit ton of debt
Assuming they sold 3 million Vitas at a $50 loss (they're currently thought to be roughly breaking even on each Vita) they would lose $150m. Yea, they have enough because they aren't going to be selling 3 million Vitas without making money elsewhere.
Sony as a conglomerate does a lot of business in various fields and sectors (eg insurance, movies, music, imaging, consumer electronics etc). The amount Sony has saved up is for all of Sony and not just for bailing out the PlayStation unit.
Another thing is that Sony may already be taking a hit on the PSVITA. So expecting them to take further losses doesn't sound like a good business decision especially as they just posted losses of multiple billions of dollars.
frankie_baby
Member
i personally doubt they break even currently on vitas sold (at least not the wifi model) though i doubt any losses are much, but without games to back it up the price cut would do nothing more than a small bump for a few weeks
napkin math
150m per quarter => 600m
$10 back on software (someone said $5 earlier, so $10 doesn't seem bad) to compensate for $600m => 60m software on 12m hardware for the year. 5 tie ratio.
For launch through Jan 1 in Japan, they were at ~ a 1 tie ratio.
Large diff between what they'd need and what they're getting.
Assuming they were even just satisfied with breaking even and didn't need those funds in other areas of the business or to just prop up their bottom line.
/napkin math
150m per quarter => 600m
$10 back on software (someone said $5 earlier, so $10 doesn't seem bad) to compensate for $600m => 60m software on 12m hardware for the year. 5 tie ratio.
For launch through Jan 1 in Japan, they were at ~ a 1 tie ratio.
Large diff between what they'd need and what they're getting.
Assuming they were even just satisfied with breaking even and didn't need those funds in other areas of the business or to just prop up their bottom line.
/napkin math
Father_Brain
Banned
There'd be a major bump in the first week, but after that, it'd at best settle at around twice Vita's current weekly 10K range.
There's a wishful implication in the "a price drop will solve everything!" line of thinking that the titles Vita has now (or will in the coming months) would be major system sellers if only the system was 5000Y/$50 cheaper, but if that were the case, the software would be selling much better as it is.
As a point of reference. Each Vita costs $160 to make. This means they could already be making a profit on each console. I am somewhat sceptical but it's likely when you consider a Vita alone costs close to $370 in Europe.
Sony also set the $250 when Vita development began in 2008, meaning it's probably not selling at a loss or much of a loss right now. (I'm working on finding that link but I believe it was an interview with 1up where this was claimed)
Sony also set the $250 when Vita development began in 2008, meaning it's probably not selling at a loss or much of a loss right now. (I'm working on finding that link but I believe it was an interview with 1up where this was claimed)
Does Sony employ Santa's little workers to assemble, package, distribute and promote their products? You have to factor in assembly costs, packaging costs, R&D costs etc. A BOM estimate is pretty useless when it comes to knowing the cost of getting a product into the hands of the customer.
That's exactly why I said I'm sceptical that they make much or any profit but a minimum margin of $90 for the US likely means that they are roughly breaking even after costs.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
KH3D numbers are a damn shame, hope SE doesn't do anything rash over them. I also hope the international market will buoy the bomb a bit.
On the bright side, DDD is selling better than the previous Nintendo-based KHs. So, that's something.
On the bright side, DDD is selling better than the previous Nintendo-based KHs. So, that's something.
frankie_baby
Member
difference between bill of materials and retail price does not equal profit!!!!!!!, also you bring up the european price there (which seems a pretty inflated to me) dont forget they include 20% tax
Not to mention when your product doesn't sell and you are forced to slow or shut down the manufacturing process that lowers production efficiency and just makes the entire operation more expensive overall.
frankie_baby
Member
when its been estimated that marketing costs alone have been about $100 per vita sold
If you'd had read my next post you'd know that I clarified what I meant. Also 20% doesn't equal $120. They're definitely making bank on the Vitas that are sold where it's priced like that.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Are you talking with these people at the GameCube Hut, by chance?
Was this listed in one of their financial reports from today or what?
Actually it's about $40 per Vita sold. Once again your numbers are off
That's a small assumption based on the fact that it's nearly double the price in places where the additional costs don't reflect that. The additional costs themselves usually only amount to around $40-50.
Other than Famitsu, who doesn't really matter, what indication do we have that this is such a great game?
I get it. Disney + Square. People eat it up. The novelty has probably worn off now though.
Why are we rooting for a game that, outside of the fans, won't really be considered that hot?
It's a GAF Fact* that anecdotal evidence favors Sony systems.
The BOM estimate on the 3DS is about a $100 yet Nintendo was taking a hit on the $150/15,000 Yen price point. I think Iwata even said he expects to start making profit on the 3DS hardware late 2012 or early 2013 (I am not sure). If Nintendo is loosing money on the 3DS hardware what makes you think that Sony isn't also loosing money on the PSVITA hardware?
frankie_baby
Member
vita on amazon uk £198 converts to $315, minus 63 dollars in tax makes $252
I don't think price cut will save it if more people than a small niche don't see software that is compelling to THEM. Sony basically tried to do exactly the same thing with the Vita as the PSP ... but moreso. And the truth is most people didn't want the original PSP until Monster Hunter. I don't think any of the announced titles have the ability to replace that Monster Hunter effect and resuscitate the system in the public's mind and frankly I don't see a reason for Capcom to give Vita a monster hunter title.
That's not the RRP, that's an Amazon discount. It's £230 which is actually $366 and then $293. Even though tax in the US works differently so that shouldn't really even be factored in.
frankie_baby
Member
and in the us the 3ds isnt $150 its $170
frankie_baby
Member
amazon has a big discount though because retailers get a huge margin
Nope, it's selling far worse than 358/2 Days. And Coded was a reworked version of a shitty mobile phone game, so outselling that is hardly an achievement.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
It's a pretty big leap. We know Nintendo is taking losses on the 3DS at $170, and the 3DS's BOM is around $100. Assuming 3DS only really costs Nintendo $180 overall, that's $80 at a minimum that has to be added to most consoles' BOM before we get their true price. It also probably scales up the higher the system actually costs to produce.
I highly, highly doubt Sony is "making bank" on Vita anywhere.
I completely blocked 358 out of my memory, heh. But it's selling better than two of them at least.
bigtroyjon
Member
Actually it's about $40 per Vita sold. Once again your numbers are off
They had a $50 million launch marketing budget in the US and have sold less than 500K units. Probably have sold less than 400K but I guess we might find out tomorrow.
Actually it's about $40 per Vita sold. Once again your numbers are off
That's a small assumption based on the fact that it's nearly double the price in places where the additional costs don't reflect that. The additional costs themselves usually only amount to around $40-50.
Assumptions like this are stupid to make.
frankie_baby
Member
or more likely not find out
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Cookie18 isn't the smartest cookie.
bigtroyjon
Member
I said might find out. I'm holding out hope on leaks like we got last time
frankie_baby
Member
unless the numbers are so bad sony pulls a psp and gets npd to stop counting them
Yea, I make one safe assumption based on the technology market as a whole in Europe and that's stupid. Meanwhile every other stupid remark from from frankie_baby goes unchallenged because he's been bashing Sony for the whole thread?
I think it's time for me to...
