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Media Create Sales: Week 31, 2014 (Jul 28 - Aug 03)

Lernaean

Banned
If my opinion was wrong you could point out where it is wrong. Maybe you don't explain your opinion because it would show that yours is wrong?

That you don't like mobile but like arcades doesn't change that there are similarities in spending patterns in both fields. And that each was a dominating gaming platform at a time, succeeded or succeeding another. Mobile too will be succeeded in popularity at some point.

I never post something if i can't back it up. In your case i didn't want to back it up because your argument, that mobile is like arcade, is laughable to say the least for everyone old enough to know what arcades were in the 90s.

But if you really want to know why you are wrong, here goes.

While both arcades and mobile share the mentality of 'pop a coin to get an extra life', the similarities end there.

The arcades were a place were the gaming community could meet in person, hang out, share tips, talk about home console games and how they go through them or which was worth a buy. It was a place where you could pop a soda and hang out with fellow gamers and form a real community.

They were a place of friendly competition, side by side, or a place of long standing feuds between different groups. It was both a practice cage and a gladiatorial arena, a place of bets and shouts and a couple of swears now and then. A place were the tech geeks were 'gang' members at the same time; Gangs that beat each other to pulp on Street Fighter and Rival Schools.

The games themselves were original, unique. their production value was high, way too high; we never even imagined games would be so cool on home consoles. And when the software was awe inspiring the hardware was out of this world. The screens were the best you could lay your eyes on at the time, and by the time i was 14, i knew which hardware each cab was packing. I would pass next to a NAOMI cab back then and i was wishing i had one of these in my life; fate was kind enough and i do now.

The controls were ground breaking. You had 6buttons, and 8buttons, and sticks, and lightguns, and those damn awesome Virtual On double sticks, and full driving kits, and even a Namco cab you were enclosed into and it was doing full rotation, and countless other controls.

You were paying a coin for a pop, but you played something you would never be able to play at home.

Mobile now? Mobile are cheap, uninspired touchscreen mini-games that the non-gamers use to spend their time, or they use them so their kids spend their time so they can have some spare moments. They are empty, anti-social, time-wasting experiences aimed to those that were watching us entering the arcades back then, and were spitting an insult between their teeth.

In a few words? as i said, if you haven't lived that time, you can't really know.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Yes, this is a fair point, as long as software is selling well, publishers will often support a device even if the hardware isn't doing great.

A good example of this is also the late era of the PSP and PS3, which were on the decline but still got a lot of support. In the case of the PS3, it's still getting good support.

However, this is part of why I started following hardware more than software as a leading indicator. Neither the follow-up to the PSP or PS3 got great support, especially out the gate. Sony had to make a herculean effort with the Vita to get it to where it is now and that's still not an amazing place.

This also actually supports your proposition that the 3DS will be well supporting for years after the 4DS comes out, even if it's just by virtue of publishers wanting to sell to the 3DS installed base.

I feel the reason for failed transitions though is that a lot of publishers operate on a three year software slate, and generally like to play it safe. If you're sitting here and greenlighting a game coming out in 2015 or even 2016, if you're making a game that would traditionally be for a dedicated device, the odds that you will greenlight it for the 3DS are pretty good, since it should still have the best and most active audience by then.

If you're deciding on your games that are for 2017 however, you have to look at the current situation and make a decision what you're going to focus on. The 3DS is likely to be a tapering software market at this point. Do you make a game for 3DS anyway? Do you make a bet that the next Nintendo handheld will take off? Do you make a cross-gen game? Do you add the staff on to a console title that needs more staff? Do you combine two teams to meet the increased standards that the 4DS has? Do you consider breaking up the team and making three mobile titles? Do you have them work on an f2p online game for Asia?

At this point, you have to try and do a whole bunch of prognostication about a time that is quite far away. So, you look at the current market. You see that 3DS software sales are good, but that the hardware is quickly slipping. You see that the Vita is unlikely to get a successor. You see that the PS3 is on its last legs, and that the PS4 and Wii U really aren't looking so hot. Also, your competitors don't seem to have many (if any) games announced for either the PS4 or Wii U either. The PS4 is doing well in the West, but Japanese games largely aren't doing so hot there. Mobile is growing heavily, and the big publishers are all investing it both it and PC online browser games. However, neither of those markets support the business model that your traditional dedicated device game uses.

It's a pretty hard spot to be in. When consoles started going down, you could move to handhelds and still use a pretty similar business model. Sure, the content was a bit different, but it still pretty closely resembled what you were making before, and hey, it was cheaper and easier than making a PS2 game and definitely than making a PS3 game. For the 4DS, maybe that's not as true anymore, especially if your series has any ties to higher production values.

There's often a big reward for getting the decision you make right, and sometimes a harsh penalty for getting it wrong. This is why I think we saw a lot of series leave consoles and bet on handhelds and why we saw a lot of developers who made major PSP games either move to 3DS or folding the teams into major console titles that did well in the West. I think this is also why we saw a lot of mid-performing DS titles evaporate into the ether to bet on the up and coming mobile market.

Now, have we hit a plateau in that shift? Hard to say. What still comes out on dedicated devices is pretty centralized around a few key successes for each publisher at this point, along with some really low budget filler titles.

I guess my perspective is that I feel anything that even raises the question of "The 4DS might not be as big a success as the 3DS." is bad, especially at this point, because this is when a lot of publishers are deciding on their early plans for the next generation of handhelds. Now, if they want to make games for a dedicated handheld, obviously they have pretty much no other choice as time goes on, but I think it's in Nintendo's interest to make sure that "they want to make games for a dedicated handheld" is their starting point in this thought process.

I agree that Nintendo to be pro active with the 4DS, timing and delivering a solid platform will be as important as ever. But not just for this generation, but also in combination with their account system, their upcoming console and handhelds. With the next system i feel they have to build an ongoing eco system that can be expanded with future consoles and system, while still supporting the base config that the 4DS sets.

With every generation it gets more difficult to get publisher to green light and commit new projects for a system that starts with a userbase of zero consoles and unclear outlook, The 4DS unveiling has to be more than just a handheld reveal - they have to really cater to all content provider and set their worries about the long term profitability of the market to side. Something that Sony did very well when they showed the PS4 for the first time and continued when announcing the price point at e3. Nintendo needs to have this show fir Japan as well.

Smartphone titles, console handheld titles and home-console titles - the next portable system has to be able to absorb all type of games and Nintendo has to provide the distributions methods needed. They already started it with the 3DS, but they have to do even better on 4DS and be on par with the portable competition. F2P, native MMOs and whatever - the system hardware wise and from a Software/OS point has to be ready for that stuff day one. They really have to take input from every developer into consideration - why arent you releasing software X not on 3DS ? Why isnt port of Y happening ? And use the answers to develop a system that western and japanese devs can easy worth with. So i expect them to go the AMD/Qualcomm SoC route with the portable, the time for exotic solutions like the Pica Chip on the 3DS is over when you wanna reach a global market and developers.

Timing is important and building momentum is more important than ever - just seeing PS4 vs. Xbox One from their unveiling to their launch performances.

If they can have Iwata on stage with a couple of statements like " The next portable will region-free again"," Every Virtual Console title bought on WiiU/3DS will be transferable at no cost on the new system", "4DS games will be all playable in Full HD on our next home system".

So while i dont see the 3DS market declining as fast, the time is approaching where Nintendo needs establish their next portable as a development option for software projects in an early state. I wonder if they are already talking with key partners outside the company - like Capcom, Level 5 and co. I would imagine that Iwata and NCL would be able to money hat MH4HD/MH5 for the next portable.

Content shouldnt a problem even if exclusive games take time to develop, i expect games from the last gen (Wii,PS3/360) and WiiU to find their way on the system, as well as mobile "smash hits".

While there is a need to act on some level, they want to milk the 3DS life cyle as effective as possible. Not too mention that with all the 2015 WiiU project you have to wonder how many devs can and are even working on 4DS software. Once they start talking about the next portable and unveil it, they have to release it in as reasonable time frame. WiiUs road from its reveal in mid 2011 till end of 2012 was a nightmare.

I cant see them realizing a new platform launch next year. They will prolong the 3DS lifecyle with everything they got price drop, revisions, Amiibo figures and games support and some fan favorites like maybe Metroid Dread etc.

The only thing worse than launching late is another subpar 3DS/WiiU like launch - they cant afford another screw up like that and shouldnt even think about unveiling the system if not everything is in the right place - from dev support, hardware, first party content, OS, name, marketing plan and message and so on. Their amateur launches with WiiU/3DS did cost them a lot of money and trust from even their hardcore fans.
 

Darius

Banned
Oh. From that I could have gotten totals for original version MHP3. But still like I said updating that comparison could be hard as we didn't get numbers for titles outside top 20 back then and MHP3 fall out from top 20 in june 2011. Still from totals after 45 weeks it seems that MH4 really hasn't gained that much. In retail 1 million difference and even with dowloads about 700k difference.

It´s not about outselling MH3p because quite frankly I consider it the peak (saleswise) of the franchise that wouldn´t have been topped neither on PSP with a hypothetical MH3pG/MH4p or on any other system for that matter. It´s more about how well it actually sold and how close it is, in fact it´s the second best selling entry and still selling. Capcom shipped(+DLsales?) 4.1m without an official cheap version which is quite close to the best selling franchise entry, especially considering that the MH4G version was announced so early. To be honest most expected it to fall far behind, similar to early DQ9 predictions. Monster Hunter is another example that in fact you can sell your software on any system if you actually take the right steps to build an audience.

Early on they pretty much made clear that MHTriG wasn´t a one shot, with the immediate announcement of MH4, similar to how before DQ9 launched, there were several DQ games including DQM which helped building a fanbase. That´s something that alot of other publishers miss to do. Great examples are Koei with their Dynasty Warriors franchise and also Namco with their Tales of franchise, occasionally they release 1-2 entries but stop quickly afterwards, when it comes to the latter despite actually having quite decent sales.
 
It´s not about otselling MH3p because quite frankly I consider it the peak (saleswise) of the franchise that wouldn´t have been topped neither on PSP with a hypothetical MH3pG/MH4p or any other system for that matter. It´s more about how well it actually sold and how close it is, in fact it´s the second best selling entry and still selling. Capcom shipped(+DLsales?) 4.1m without an official cheap version which is quite close to the best selling franchise entry, especially considering that the MH4G version was announced so early. To be honest most expected it to fall far behind, similar to early DQ9 predictions. Monster Hunter is another example that in fact you can sell your software on any system if you actually take the right steps to build an audience.

Early on they pretty much made clear that MHTriG wasn´t a one shot, with the immediate announcement of MH4, similar to how before DQ9 launched, there were several DQ games including DQM which helped building a fanbase. That´s something that alot of other publishers miss to do. Great examples are Koei with their Dynasty Warriors franchise and also Namco with their Tales of franchise, occasionally they release 1-2 entries but stop quickly afterwards, when it comes to the latter despite actually having quite decent sales.

Definitely great sales and like you said I also think MHP3 was the peak of MH so MH4 was never going to reach as high numbers. Still I also remember some posters claiming that it will outleg MHP3 and that way would reach it. As for selling your software on any system I think for mega franchises like DQ, MH and FF it really doesn't matter that much on what system they are. They sell regardless because of their immense brand power. Sure the actual popularity of the said system has some effect on sales and with some spinoffs and ports you can try to build the fanbase for the system but especially mainline MH and DQ games will be multimillion sellers regardless of that. For some other franchises it just seems that the fanbase is on some specific system. Sure it could be moved with enough work but why bother if it's already on that one system? For example with Tales Namco tried to release a main game for the most popular home console of the gen with Graces on Wii but it didn't do that hot. Then they ported the same game to PS3 and the port greatly outsold the original game. Then ToX was even bigger success as a original mainline title for PS3 and showed that they should have developed for PS3 since start of the gen (dat Vesperia moneyhat from MS).
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I agree that Nintendo to be pro active with the 4DS, timing and delivering a solid platform will be as important as ever. But not just for this generation, but also in combination with their account system, their upcoming console and handhelds. With the next system i feel they have to build an ongoing eco system that can be expanded with future consoles and system, while still supporting the base config that the 4DS sets.

With every generation it gets more difficult to get publisher to green light and commit new projects for a system that starts with a userbase of zero consoles and unclear outlook, The 4DS unveiling has to be more than just a handheld reveal - they have to really cater to all content provider and set their worries about the long term profitability of the market to side. Something that Sony did very well when they showed the PS4 for the first time and continued when announcing the price point at e3. Nintendo needs to have this show fir Japan as well.

Smartphone titles, console handheld titles and home-console titles - the next portable system has to be able to absorb all type of games and Nintendo has to provide the distributions methods needed. They already started it with the 3DS, but they have to do even better on 4DS and be on par with the portable competition. F2P, native MMOs and whatever - the system hardware wise and from a Software/OS point has to be ready for that stuff day one. They really have to take input from every developer into consideration - why arent you releasing software X not on 3DS ? Why isnt port of Y happening ? And use the answers to develop a system that western and japanese devs can easy worth with. So i expect them to go the AMD/Qualcomm SoC route with the portable, the time for exotic solutions like the Pica Chip on the 3DS is over when you wanna reach a global market and developers.

Timing is important and building momentum is more important than ever - just seeing PS4 vs. Xbox One from their unveiling to their launch performances.

If they can have Iwata on stage with a couple of statements like " The next portable will region-free again"," Every Virtual Console title bought on WiiU/3DS will be transferable at no cost on the new system", "4DS games will be all playable in Full HD on our next home system".

So while i dont see the 3DS market declining as fast, the time is approaching where Nintendo needs establish their next portable as a development option for software projects in an early state. I wonder if they are already talking with key partners outside the company - like Capcom, Level 5 and co. I would imagine that Iwata and NCL would be able to money hat MH4HD/MH5 for the next portable.

Content shouldnt a problem even if exclusive games take time to develop, i expect games from the last gen (Wii,PS3/360) and WiiU to find their way on the system, as well as mobile "smash hits".

While there is a need to act on some level, they want to milk the 3DS life cyle as effective as possible. Not too mention that with all the 2015 WiiU project you have to wonder how many devs can and are even working on 4DS software. Once they start talking about the next portable and unveil it, they have to release it in as reasonable time frame. WiiUs road from its reveal in mid 2011 till end of 2012 was a nightmare.

I cant see them realizing a new platform launch next year. They will prolong the 3DS lifecyle with everything they got price drop, revisions, Amiibo figures and games support and some fan favorites like maybe Metroid Dread etc.

The only thing worse than launching late is another subpar 3DS/WiiU like launch - they cant afford another screw up like that and shouldnt even think about unveiling the system if not everything is in the right place - from dev support, hardware, first party content, OS, name, marketing plan and message and so on. Their amateur launches with WiiU/3DS did cost them a lot of money and trust from even their hardcore fans.
Right, I think you hit the nail on the head that one of the biggest things they can do is one of the things we can't see, which is actually start courting publishers right now.

We had a lot of leaks and/or statements about Xbox One and PlayStation 4 dating back to 2011, so there was a full 2-3 years in which Microsoft and Sony were courting developers and trying to sell them on the virtues of making games for their upcoming platforms and customizing them to their needs.

On the other hand, basically all the statements we heard at the unveiling of the 3DS was that people had maybe 2-4 months before E3 to find out about the hardware and get tech demos ready. Even internal games like Steel Diver were being designed for the DS until they were told "Surprise, it's going to be for our new system, let's try to upgrade this!"

This is not the kind of situation you want to court to people under. It doesn't matter if your hardware leaks early, what really matters is that it has amazing support. There has been a gigantic march of major cross-gen games for the Xbox One and PS4, and that's what Nintendo wants when they're putting out their system, while sprinkling in most of the early exclusives themselves.

Given a three year forecast, a poor launch also causes a lot of issues with support, because publishers have to figure out if a system that did poorly upfront is going to recover, by how much it will do so, and which audiences it will actually get. If they can just see major games in ten different genres come out in the first six months due to mass cross-gen support, they can pretty quickly figure out who is buying the system and continue on with confidence.

The easier the system can absorb existing technology stacks, the easier and faster it is for developers to add support for the system as well.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
I think it's too quick to say that this 40k is new base level for 3DS. It just got huge software launch three weeks ago. Before Yokai Watch 3DS was doing sub 30k numbers weekly. Let's wait for couple more weeks.

Let's wait for couple more weeks that there will be more huge software launches?

The only problem I see is for the rest of this year is that Nintendo leaves December empty again.
 

Lernaean

Banned
Great posts by cw_sasuke and Nirolak. You got it right.

The only problem I see is for the rest of this year is that Nintendo leaves December empty again.

They have Smash in December and most possibly Captain Toad, at least in the US and Japan for the later, and November has releases too. I think they are ok.
 

MilesTeg

Banned
Unfortunately, I really can't see Nintendo nailing it at launch with third party, or in terms of their own software being ready, from games to OS. They need new devices out by 2016 at the latest. It could be quick and sloppy. They had 7 years between DS and 3DS, and launched without an online shop. I guess the unified architecture/OS plans could help mitigate this issue though, both for themselves and third party.
 

sörine

Banned
So basically you need to buy the console first and play the game...OK.

Here is what people see: A new Wii Sports with a horrendous metacritic for $40. That is, if they know the game even exists in the first place.
I mean you don't need too. You can do 30 seconds of research on the internet. You can simply pick up and look at the box in store. Nintendo isn't exactly hiding the fact this an HD remake.

And at the end of the day it's still exactly that, an HD remake. And so your comparison is still inherently flawed and inviting cristicsm.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Right, I think you hit the nail on the head that one of the biggest things they can do is one of the things we can't see, which is actually start courting publishers right now.

We had a lot of leaks and/or statements about Xbox One and PlayStation 4 dating back to 2011, so there was a full 2-3 years in which Microsoft and Sony were courting developers and trying to sell them on the virtues of making games for their upcoming platforms and customizing them to their needs.

On the other hand, basically all the statements we heard at the unveiling of the 3DS was that people had maybe 2-4 months before E3 to find out about the hardware and get tech demos ready. Even internal games like Steel Diver were being designed for the DS until they were told "Surprise, it's going to be for our new system, let's try to upgrade this!"

This is not the kind of situation you want to court to people under. It doesn't matter if your hardware leaks early, what really matters is that it has amazing support. There has been a gigantic march of major cross-gen games for the Xbox One and PS4, and that's what Nintendo wants when they're putting out their system, while sprinkling in most of the early exclusives themselves.

Given a three year forecast, a poor launch also causes a lot of issues with support, because publishers have to figure out if a system that did poorly upfront is going to recover, by how much it will do so, and which audiences it will actually get. If they can just see major games in ten different genres come out in the first six months due to mass cross-gen support, they can pretty quickly figure out who is buying the system and continue on with confidence.

The easier the system can absorb existing technology stacks, the easier and faster it is for developers to add support for the system as well.
Exactly, this generation has to be a bitter lesson for Iwatas "road to the next big gimmick" strategy and the secrecy when it comes to unveiling their systems. A solid system with reliable support is more important than hoping for the next big fad. At end portables as well as console are just hardware boxes, sure some feature some unique features or gimmicks but what the customers cares most about is the content and if gimmicks are the reason you are loosing out on mayor content you have to check your priorities.

Inviting key publishing partners to share their opinions for the next portable is important, while they might never get real exclusive EA content on the system but the goal should be reaching baseline where yearly games like Fifa, Madden are released on the system as well as their social/mobile games on whatever e-store Nintendo will support in future.

With the 3DS you had a bunch of launch period games like Saints Row and Assasins Creed being cancelled because the system didnt ended up what the publisher was expecting or they didnt have enough time to make the right decision on supporting the plattform. As we see with projects like Destiny publishing plans are often set in stones years in advance, the more time passes the harder it gets for publishers/devs to add and include other systems.

Enough time before the launch and inclusion when designing shaping the system and developers will want to develop for the system. I feel its been a long time since Nintendo has delivered a system that devs are hyped to develop for, not even from a business point of view....looking at the Vita, while it might be a commercial flop you see projects end up their because devs are exited to work on the system and wanna push some limits in regards to mobile.

Before Nintendo puts their stuff on mobile there are many actions they can and should take to somehow get a part of the 3rd party licencing money when it comes to consoles. Seeing Fifa, GTA, CoD and Co. selling millions every year and Sony/MS making ridiculous amount of money, same with the F2P market where customers spending mayor $$$ on mobile games like PAD/CoC they really need to position themselves better when it comes attracting these income sources.

I have the feeling that Nintendo might do just fine when it comes to getting their japanese 3rd Partys onto the next system, i reallly wonder how they will attract the western counter parts and the smaller indie/mobile devs.

Having content like FF14/DQX (yes the MMOs), Minecraft, Simpsons EA game ( yes the mobile one) and Destiny (yes the console online only shooter) on the system.

As the late Yamauchi said before the DS launch - its another " If the (4)DS succeeds, we will rise to heaven, but if it fails we will sink to hell" situation, Iwata and Nintendo cant afford a third strike.

sörine;124254566 said:
I mean you don't need too. You can do 30 seconds of research on the internet. You can simply pick up and look at the box in store. Nintendo isn't exactly hiding the fact this an HD remake.

And at the end of the day it's still exactly that, an HD remake. And so your comparison is still inherently flawed and inviting cristicsm.

I expect a Majoras Mask drop in December as well - might be wrong though id they push the release to 2015 instead.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
You said Nintendo leaves December empty. They do have games.
And Pokemon is in late November, i wouldn't really worry about 3DS sales in the holiday period.

The conversation was for 3DS. empty December hurt them last year, it will hurt them again.
 
Even if they don't divulge any details about next-gen hardware the least they can do is make forward-looking statements that indicate they don't have their heads up their asses wrt being a global leader. If I'm a publisher very few of the things Nintendo has said would make me want to invest good money into their future platforms.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Yeah, 3DS successors has to have enough power in order to get everything's possible: not just first party efforts and third party exclusives, but also indie titles, mobile titles and other consoles titles, including home-consoles titles.
Also because of the following reasons

1) Chaos Rings III: Prequel Trilogy could be a preview of next future, where more traditional mobile efforts get a console port due to the mobile market being way too hard for those kind of titles right now
2) F2P mobile titles could be ported as well, in order to get a different audience from the mobile one --> increasing possibilities of success for console only "traditional" versions / spin-offs of those games, a-la-Puzzle & Dragons Z
3) In the current situation, the possibility of seeing Japan-focused home-console titles coming also to a Nintendo handheld powerful enough to receive them is increasing: not only we're seeing lots of PS3/Vita multi releases (with Vita versions not selling as bad as they could, given the installed base difference), but PS4 is heavily suffering, and its dire situation will continue until it starts having a more continue lineup, but the future doesn't look that great. Of course there are the big ones, but some of them could even be delayed because the installed base is too little for them to be released

Wii U-like visuals would be perfect for this situation. And it would really help the next home device, the first under the iOSification guideline stated by Iwata back in January, since it should be quite easy for developers to upport the handheld's titles to the home console , with better resolutions, framerates and additional effects...hopefully.

About December not having a Nintendo game for 3DS right now...you know what could be ideal? Rhythm Heaven! When are we going to see it again :(
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
You are Nintendo and you have nothing scheduled for your system for entire December. If you expect huge releases from previous months to have the same impact with brand new releases good luck. December sales will suffer again and most important post holiday sales will suffer more.

Last year December had a pathetic small number of new games for 3DS, maybe release schedule will include more games this time, this should improve things a bit. If new releases are counted again in the fingers of two hands we'll have another repeat of 2014 Q1.
 
This Kunio-kun PS3 game looks kind of nice:
DGlPo2P.jpg

83TP587.jpg

4WfZ2O9.jpg

8Wdskqb.jpg

Z5Uu6pA.jpg


Not $60 nice, though: http://www.famitsu.com/news/201408/07058671.html

Oh, and apparently 2K will release Borderlands 2 Vita in Japan: http://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201408060061/

wow what kind of game is it?
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Winning Eleven 2014 Samurai Blue Challenge is now absent from Famitsu Top 30 as well, for the first time since its release. Comparison time (with Famitsu numbers, taken from japanltdrank)

Blue Samurai 2014 & the main 2014 v.s. ...Blue Samurai 2010 & the main 2010

[PS3] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010 - 234,505 / 438,552
[PSP] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010 - 46,138 / 213,033
[WII] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010 - 9,300 / 56,600
[360] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010 - 9,073 / 21,204

[PS3] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010: Samurai Blue Challenge - 57,909 / 203,160
[PSP] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010: Samurai Blue Challenge - 19,703 / 130,291
[WII] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010: Samurai Blue Challenge - 6,944 / 49,070

[PS3] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2014 - 153,410 / 308,507
[PSP] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2014 - 16,504 / 24,069
[3DS] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2014 - 10,459 / 20,333

[PS3] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2014: Samurai Blue Challenge - 47,726 / 160,272*
[3DS] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2014: Samurai Blue Challenge - 19,434 / 69,273*
[PSP] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2014: Samurai Blue Challenge - 7,170 / 34,633**

*up to Week 30
**up to Week 28

The rest are LTDs (known LTDs). Unfortunately, we don't have better datas for WE2014 on PSP and 3DS, since their LTDs are surely much higher than what reported
 

extralite

Member
I feel arcades are similar to mobile in more ways than one. Using a quarter may seem cheap at first but it can add up, just like f2p on mobile. At some point customers understood that a more expensive console could actually save them money compared to arcades. Consoles could swing back too in the future. Or whatever follows mobile (maybe VR) could be more like consoles again.
Similar in more ways than one: > 1

No, arcades are nothing like mobile.
Nothing like: = 0

I never post something if i can't back it up. In your case i didn't want to back it up because your argument, that mobile is like arcade, is laughable to say the least for everyone old enough to know what arcades were in the 90s.

But if you really want to know why you are wrong, here goes.

While both arcades and mobile share the mentality of 'pop a coin to get an extra life', the similarities end there.
One example but the similarities end there: = 1

You defeated yourself fully already, before you started with your nostalgic elitism and your opinion (neither wrong nor right but completely unrelated to what I wrote) on mobile games.

The second way where arcade and mobile are similar is that they were the top of popularity of the medium for a time. You explain why arcades were popular and make it sound impossible that mobile can even be popular, even though it is.

But that doesn't change the fact that arcades waned and consoles benefitted and that mobile could fade and an alternative that is more transparent in cost could benefit.

You in no way even touch on the points I make and just are offended that I pointed out a similarity between something you like and something you don't like.

I think we might just be using different definitions of the word "fad" because that's exactly what I mean by fad. It was a fad for several years, but I don't believe it's a franchise with sustained future interest in the way Mario or Zelda, or even Wii Fit is (although unfortunately interest in Wii Fit has become pretty meager, too).

Merriam-Webster:
fad
noun \ˈfad\

: something (such as an interest or fashion) that is very popular for a short time
A whole generation isn't a short time. Even half a generation wouldn't be a short time. Several years isn't a short time.

And Wii U (same name as the "fad" console) already got Wii Fit U, Wii Party U and Wii Sports Club. It will get more and they will keep selling over the whole gen, supporting the rest of the library. Mii characters are also in other games without Wii in the title, for example Mario sports titles and NSMBU. Wii _ is here to stay and Wii Party U is a success relative to the console's install base.
 

maxcriden

Member
Merriam-Webster:
A whole generation isn't a short time. Even half a generation wouldn't be a short time. Several years isn't a short time.

And Wii U (same name as the "fad" console) already got Wii Fit U, Wii Party U and Wii Sports Club. It will get more and they will keep selling over the whole gen, supporting the rest of the library. Mii characters are also in other games without Wii in the title, for example Mario sports titles and NSMBU. Wii _ is here to stay and Wii Party U is a success relative to the console's install base.

That's a reasonable rebuttal but I disagree with some of your points.

I think a whole video game generation can be reasonably considered a fad. Beanie Babies were a fad. Pet rocks were a fad. Tamagotchi, fanny packs. All fads. These all lasted several years, as did Wii's popularity (roughly 2006 - 2010 or 2011).

I think Nintendo would like for the Wii brand and name to not have been a fad but Wii U's very lack of popularity indicates to me that they are trying to capitalize on and prolong what is unfortunately turning out to be a fad. You mentioned Wii Party U's relative success, however my understanding is that that is primarily in Japan where it was bundled with the console starting last October. As well, worldwide sales of Wii Fit U, which I believe is one of the best Wii-branded titles Nintendo has made yet, as well as Western sales of Wii Party U, appear to be fairly dismal. This is unfortunate as I think all of these Wii products are solid, and in the case of Wii Fit U, spectacular. However, as I said I think Nintendo is trying to capitalize on what is now a passed fad, at least in the minds of grandmas and families and casual folk who were enamored of the ability to pick up a Wiimote and play golf or baseball or get fit on their balance board, and that this has now passed and Nintendo finds themselves in the unenviable position of trying to iterate on a fad with a poor choice of name as well as a customer base that has moved on to other interests and new fads like iOS gaming.
 
Wii U could have better numbers at this moment if had more games to come out after Mario Kart 8's release. As usual, droughts keep plaguing Nintendo home consoles.
 

Scum

Junior Member
Damn! Dat cw_sasuke and Nirolak combo. :O
Pay attention, Iwata-san.

More of this...

cw_sasuke said:
Smartphone titles, console handheld titles and home-console titles - the next portable system has to be able to absorb all type of games and Nintendo has to provide the distributions methods needed. They already started it with the 3DS, but they have to do even better on 4DS and be on par with the portable competition. F2P, native MMOs and whatever - the system hardware wise and from a Software/OS point has to be ready for that stuff day one. They really have to take input from every developer into consideration - why arent you releasing software X not on 3DS ? Why isnt port of Y happening ? And use the answers to develop a system that western and japanese devs can easy worth with. So i expect them to go the AMD/Qualcomm SoC route with the portable, the time for exotic solutions like the Pica Chip on the 3DS is over when you wanna reach a global market and developers.

...and less of this...

Nirolak said:
On the other hand, basically all the statements we heard at the unveiling of the 3DS was that people had maybe 2-4 months before E3 to find out about the hardware and get tech demos ready. Even internal games like Steel Diver were being designed for the DS until they were told "Surprise, it's going to be for our new system, let's try to upgrade this!"

...please.
 

jeremy1456

Junior Member
How many more months of the Wii U outselling the PS4 will it take for people here to agree the Wii U will be ahead when all is said and done?

By the time KH3 and FFXV launch it will either probably be too late for the system. It might even not be til next gen in FFXV's case knowing nomura.
 
PM did. You at least suggested that the weekly numbers would still go lower at a time when they were already very close to the last few stable weeks.

And MK8 will sell for the whole generation and be a game for people to consider picking up a Wii U. Whenever a new game that interests them comes out, MK8 will be another title to buy alongside with. It will keep affecting weekly sales for a long time.
They did go lower than the last few "stable" weeks, down to the 7k mark when people had previously talked about 12k and 10k new baselines; and it's still only selling in the 8k area (Famitsu).

They rose last week, and this week managed to be flat on that.

The idea that MK8 can sustain even this (poor) level of hardware sales six/nine/twelve months from now still seems far fetched, because the prospect of "a new game coming along" for the Wii U remains incredibly limited. The degree of punctuation between software releases is still too large to be conducive to sustainable hardware sales.
 

mo60

Member
How many more months of the Wii U outselling the PS4 will it take for people here to agree the Wii U will be ahead when all is said and done?

By the time KH3 and FFXV launch it will either probably be too late for the system. It might even not be til next gen in FFXV's case knowing nomura.

The PS4 may still catch up to the WiiU, but it may take at least three years.It may also never catch up to the WiiU no matter what software releases for the console.
 
How many more months of the Wii U outselling the PS4 will it take for people here to agree the Wii U will be ahead when all is said and done?

By the time KH3 and FFXV launch it will either probably be too late for the system. It might even not be til next gen in FFXV's case knowing nomura.

I would agree at this point it's looking more and more likely that Wii U will either remain ahead of the PS4 or they they will finish extremely close to one another. The Wii U will probably have a 2 million lead by the time the PS4 starts getting consistent(ish) software releases to outsell it weekly which by that point a lead of 2 million when it's looking like the PS4 will at best reach Vita levels would be near impossible to surmount. THe fact that mobile will increasingly destroy consoles in Japan is another factor. As for the 3DS, again, I don't think that 40k baseline in the 4th year is bad, but it has not been near a 40k baseline for a long time. It's been closer to 25-30k. I imagine sales next year (when Nintendo begins to gear up for the 4DS and more focus on Wii U with a lot less 3DS software) will see them under 20k without a big revision. If they don't have 4DS until Fall 2016 they will sputter into the next handheld generation, and that is not something they can afford to do in the current market.

If Nintendo launches the 4DS with a 3DS like lineup in the first months it could be very difficult to recover. That being said, such a handheld would probably still end up being profitable. The bigger problem is that there portable market is going to have take a lot of the load, as I don't see their console division recovering in a single generation (if at all).
 

RalchAC

Member
I would agree at this point it's looking more and more likely that Wii U will either remain ahead of the PS4 or they they will finish extremely close to one another. The Wii U will probably have a 2 million lead by the time the PS4 starts getting consistent(ish) software releases to outsell it weekly which by that point a lead of 2 million when it's looking like the PS4 will at best reach Vita levels would be near impossible to surmount. THe fact that mobile will increasingly destroy consoles in Japan is another factor. As for the 3DS, again, I don't think that 40k baseline in the 4th year is bad, but it has not been near a 40k baseline for a long time. It's been closer to 25-30k. I imagine sales next year (when Nintendo begins to gear up for the 4DS and more focus on Wii U with a lot less 3DS software) will see them under 20k without a big revision. If they don't have 4DS until Fall 2016 they will sputter into the next handheld generation, and that is not something they can afford to do in the current market.

If Nintendo launches the 4DS with a 3DS like lineup in the first months it could be very difficult to recover. That being said, such a handheld would probably still end up being profitable. The bigger problem is that there portable market is going to have take a lot of the load, as I don't see their console division recovering in a single generation (if at all).

The Vita is definitely going to sell more than 4 million units. I'd say if the Ps4 sells like the Vita it could do around 6 million before the Ps5 launches and 8-9 million when all is said and done.
 

mo60

Member
The Vita is definitely going to sell more than 4 million units. I'd say if the Ps4 sells like the Vita it could do around 6 million before the Ps5 launches and 8-9 million when all is said and done.

8-9 million is very unlikely in the current Japanese market. Anywere from 4-6 million is likely for the PS4.
 
The Vita is definitely going to sell more than 4 million units. I'd say if the Ps4 sells like the Vita it could do around 6 million before the Ps5 launches and 8-9 million when all is said and done.

PS3 just hit 10 million. There is no way the PS4 will end up that close. I think it would be a pretty big recovery just to hit 6 million, especially the way the Japanese market is headed. Also the Vita is not coming close to 8 million either.
 

Takao

Banned
Is Child of Light SE in Japan a cart? If so can I play it in English? Its cheaper than the UK one.

On Vita it's an actual cartridge release. I don't know if the Japanese release has support for English, but the Asian (Hong Kong, etc.) one apparently does.
 
On Vita it's an actual cartridge release. I don't know if the Japanese release has support for English, but the Asian (Hong Kong, etc.) one apparently does.

Thanks how much does that one go for? The Japanese one is 2200 yen on Amazon JP.
 
I would agree at this point it's looking more and more likely that Wii U will either remain ahead of the PS4 or they they will finish extremely close to one another. The Wii U will probably have a 2 million lead by the time the PS4 starts getting consistent(ish) software releases to outsell it weekly which by that point a lead of 2 million when it's looking like the PS4 will at best reach Vita levels would be near impossible to surmount.
It's looking more plausible now that the Wii U may eventually outsell the PS4 and they'll probably end up close regardless.

But mathematically, for the Wii U to reach a 2 million lead, unless Wii U sales improve dramatically or PS4 sales collapse even further, the latter of which may be entirely plausible, it would need to build up an additional lead of 800K units.

And at the current sales delta between them, that would take like 3 years. If the PS4 will need to wait 3 years to get consistent content then it's already dead.
 

ZeroXZee

Member
I've done this cause...don't know. I like random information, I guess.

(Numbers by Famitsu,
the superior tracker™
)

nR8HHEK.png


PS4
Best Week: 322.083 (Week 8/Launch Week)
Worst Week: 5.177 (Week 30)
Nº of Weeks being the best selling console (since PS4 launch): 12
Software with best FW: Knack - 309.304 (Bundled) / Yakuza Ishin - 82.540 (Unbundled)

PS3
Best Week: 40.941 (Week 1)
Worst Week: 6.041 (Week 23)
Nº of Weeks being the best selling console (since PS4 launch): 2
Software with best FW: Mobile Suit Gundam Extreme Vs. Full Boost - 269.940

Wii U
Best Week: 60.548 (Week 1)
Worst Week: 5.588 (Week 16)
Nº of Weeks being the best selling console (since PS4 launch): 9
Software with best FW: Mario Kart 8 - 325.892
 

sörine

Banned
PS3 just hit 10 million. There is no way the PS4 will end up that close. I think it would be a pretty big recovery just to hit 6 million, especially the way the Japanese market is headed. Also the Vita is not coming close to 8 million either.
It's increasingly clear that Vita's poised to be the platform suffering the biggest decline from it's predecessor, both proportionately and in raw numbers. Sad to think the only console with a chance of matching last gen is Xbox One. And it doesn't even really stand much chance either, it just has the lowest bar.

As bad as 3DS has done, it's at least sold 50% of it's predecessor (and will go a bit father than that). Wii U, PS4 and Vita won't be managing that.
 

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
You are Nintendo and you have nothing scheduled for your system for entire December. If you expect huge releases from previous months to have the same impact with brand new releases good luck. December sales will suffer again and most important post holiday sales will suffer more.

Last year December had a pathetic small number of new games for 3DS, maybe release schedule will include more games this time, this should improve things a bit. If new releases are counted again in the fingers of two hands we'll have another repeat of 2014 Q1.

Um, what exactly released in December 2012? Wasn't the console basically carried by Animal Crossing New Leaf in Japan, which released in early November?
 

Tripon

Member
Um, what exactly released in December 2012? Wasn't the console basically carried by Animal Crossing New Leaf in Japan, which released in early November?

Animal Crossing New Leaf was a genuine system seller that bought in a new and different audience for the 3DS.
 

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
Animal Crossing New Leaf was a genuine system seller that bought in a new and different audience for the 3DS.

True, so I don't understand Chris's comment. Animal Crossing = system seller and thus December (and further) was fine for the 3DS. The 3DS had MH & Pokemon in Sept/Oct, and PDZ on 12/12 along w/ LBW on 12/26. While I think Zelda should have released a week earlier at least, what exactly was weaker about 2013's December titles as opposed to 2012's? PDZ sold well as a piece of software, but didn't push hardware, which is more a bet that didn't pan out if that was their strategy.
 

leroidys

Member
Can't believe how bad PS4 is doing. Makes me despair for our chances of getting a second PS2 era.

Is it doing sub DC numbers? Sub vita?
 

sörine

Banned
3DS December releases from Nintendo:

2011: Mario Kart 7
2012: Paper Mario: Sticker Star
2013: The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds
2014: TBA
 
It's not just the Yokai Watch games doing well, it's the merchandise of all kinds (and show) as well, right?

Yokai Watch amiibos could be HUGE
 
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