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Media Create Sales: Week 50, 2011 (Dec 12 - Dec 18)

Beth Cyra

Member
This is magical thinking on par with "if everyone asks Santa Claus to bring the FF series back to prominence it'll surely happen!" FFVII has -- in fact, epitomizes -- many of the issues that audiences today routinely bitch about in newly released RPGs: cliche characters, nonsensical and incomprehensible storylines (that fall apart after the first act), obnoxiously long attack animations, pointless cutscenes, random encounters, missable sidequests, lack of meaningful challenge, a battle system that mostly comes down to "Fight" over and over, etc. The idea that people are going to ignore the things that drive them away from other recent RPGs just because this one was popular ten years ago is extremely implausible. FFVII also has an aesthetic straight out of the late-90s era that's incredibly dated today and won't do much to win over new converts.

I mean, seriously: FFVII was outrageously era-specific, lightning in a bottle that came from reading the exact tone of that moment's zeitgeist and serving up a product that tapped it exactly the right way. Square-Enix trying to turn around its fortunes with a slavish remake today is basically the equivalent of if NBC tried to break out of their last-place TV rut with a Friends reunion.

While I wouldn't really argue with any of this, this part does actually seem to be the case.

FF VII has been on the best Seller PSN list since it's release with out dropping very far and the few times it has it jumps back up.

Beyond that, Cloud still remains very popular with in commiunity. Not only that but Kingdom Hearts uses a very similar art style and it was very succesful in creating a new franchise for them.

I don't think that it would pull VII numbers or anything like that.

However I really think this argument with the art style being the issuse is kinda nonsense. XIII even did just fine in the west, better then in Japan, and if it was really the art style that killed it, it wouldn't have made it as far as it did, it would have died out the gate which isn't the case.
 
FF VII has been on the best Seller PSN list since it's release with out dropping very far and the few times it has it jumps back up.

I'm not saying it's not a popular game or that there aren't many, many people who remember it fondly. A remake would definitely sell well and many people would enjoy it -- but we're talking about it as a single-handed savior of the FF brand. FFVII remade would sell well, but I think its ability to revitalize the brand itself would be next to nil, even if expertly remade.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
I'm not saying it's not a popular game or that there aren't many, many people who remember it fondly. A remake would definitely sell well and many people would enjoy it -- but we're talking about it as a single-handed savior of the FF brand. FFVII remade would sell well, but I think its ability to revitalize the brand itself would be next to nil, even if expertly remade.

Well given the only thing I think a VII R would do is is sell better then IX and XII and maybe act as a band aid I can't say I disagree with you.

That said I don't think making a game that looks like XII over XIII in style choice will win them any fans any more then in reverse. People wanted to like XIII, and if the look was so bad they wouldn't have tried it enough to get such a negative reaction they have had so far in XIII-2.
 
I'm not saying it's not a popular game or that there aren't many, many people who remember it fondly. A remake would definitely sell well and many people would enjoy it -- but we're talking about it as a single-handed savior of the FF brand. FFVII remade would sell well, but I think its ability to revitalize the brand itself would be next to nil, even if expertly remade.

I would say put it on WiiU but not even a main Zelda sells the numbers we would look for to say FF has made a comeback
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
A well done mutliplatform FF VII for PS4/720 or maybe Wii U/PS3-4 probably maxes out at a million in Japan and does another two million in Europe and America combined. A decent money maker if it stays in budget.

Or they could get around a million in Japan and a few hundred thousand each in Europe and America with much cheaper, mainly out of studio remakes of V and VI for the 3DS or Vita or both.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
A well done mutliplatform FF VII for PS4/720 or maybe Wii U/PS3-4 probably maxes out at a million in Japan and does another two million in Europe and America combined. A decent money maker if it stays in budget.

Or they could get around a million in Japan and a few hundred thousand each in Europe and America with much cheaper, mainly out of studio remakes of V and VI for the 3DS or Vita or both.

I don't even care about VII at this point. All I know is if they remake shit and skip V I'm going to be fucking pissed.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Final Fantasy talk.

I perfectly agree with charlequin ( or it was Stumpakow?!? XD ) about stop making games of the brand for a while, in order to take all the right time possible for understanding what could make a brand new main FF appealing again to the mass Jrpg audience (and I dare to say also that they should change their marketing research section, taking the example from Western software houses in this, so there shouldn't be at least so often bad develoent choices)... But I also see the FFVII remake as what could make fans caring a lot about the brand again.

It's obvious it has to be a big budget project, where graphics are improved, where battle system itself is modernized a bit, where some plot holes are eliminated...and this need time to think about it and to develop..but if they give time to the project, using a dynamic approach for the development ( I mean the team developing the game helped by members of other teams and / or external teams, in order to bring a well thought experience without stopping developing other games ), it could be the right move to make FF the brand again.

But it would be the riskiest move possible...and SE now doesn't seem capable of doing that :p
But...who knows!

However, for the short term...Nintendo x Dragon Quest RPG. Already said and still baffled because neither Nintendo or SE has thought about it yet.
 

Truth101

Banned
A well done mutliplatform FF VII for PS4/720 or maybe Wii U/PS3-4 probably maxes out at a million in Japan and does another two million in Europe and America combined. A decent money maker if it stays in budget.

Or they could get around a million in Japan and a few hundred thousand each in Europe and America with much cheaper, mainly out of studio remakes of V and VI for the 3DS or Vita or both.
There is no way to keep a reasonable budget on an HD remake the size of FFVII.Why do you think rpgs moved to handhelds last gen.
 

duckroll

Member
There is no way to keep a reasonable budget on an HD remake the size of FFVII.Why do you think rpgs moved to handhelds last gen.

I'll like to dissect this point to see if anyone can actually prove that this is the case factually.

- What is a reasonable budget?
- What is the "size" of FFVII defined by?
- What is the technical requirement to be a "HD remake" in the first place?
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
32 pages.
Isn't this the second longest MC thread ever, with the 41 one from GW 2007 being the first?
 

Truth101

Banned
Could have fooled me. There have been some great HD RPGs. Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Tales of Vesperia.
I never said you can't have a great rpg in HD, but do tell me how many of those do you think made much profit?

And 4...? That isn't what I'd call alot. What is the content of those games like compared to PSX/PS2 era rpgs or DS era rpgs?

Sure you'll have an HD rpg here and there, but most of them will be backed by large franchises. New ips in the rpg genre are never going to flourish on HD consoles till dev costs decrease, dramatically so.
 

Erethian

Member
I'll like to dissect this point to see if anyone can actually prove that this is the case factually.

- What is a reasonable budget?
- What is the "size" of FFVII defined by?
- What is the technical requirement to be a "HD remake" in the first place?

Part of the overly inflated expectations for a FF7 remake, as I see it, are having the budget of a new mainline entry devoted to it.

Especially when people start talking about it reviving the FF franchise or saving SE from disgrace or whatever else.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
I'll like to dissect this point to see if anyone can actually prove that this is the case factually.

- What is a reasonable budget?
- What is the "size" of FFVII defined by?
- What is the technical requirement to be a "HD remake" in the first place?

I can only comment on the third one, but they would need something that either approaches the Tech demo they showed at the beginning of the Gen or at least on the level of XIII.

Otherwise I do think it would be received negativly by a large group of people.
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
I can only comment on the third one, but they would need something that either approaches the Tech demo they showed at the beginning of the Gen or at least on the level of XIII.

Otherwise I do think it would be received negativly by a large group of people.
Not if FFX HD sets the mood by lower the bar first and taking one for team. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason for its existence lol.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Not if FFX HD sets the mood by lower the bar first and taking one for team. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason for its existence lol.

You must be forgetting that X is number two only to VII in popularity so I don't see why you think X is some how weird.
 

Truth101

Banned
I'll like to dissect this point to see if anyone can actually prove that this is the case factually.

- What is a reasonable budget?
- What is the "size" of FFVII defined by?
- What is the technical requirement to be a "HD remake" in the first place?
Reasonable Budget-

New ips

As a publisher I would first look at a few things. What experience does the developer have making rpgs, were their games well recieved, did they preform well financially and to critics? What is the financial situation of the company,would a flop sink us or can we sustain failures on the strength of our other brands? Can assets be farmed from other projects? Though, most importantly I would look at how big we want the scope of the game to be. How many secrets will there be, will it be linear or free roam, how much replayability should there be. Finally as a publisher how do I want this new ip to preform. It would be nice if it was a massive success from the start, but just getting the franchise out the door and well recieved is an accomplishment too. Take a look at the Souls franchise as an example.

Remakes- How successful was the original? How is the franchise preforming now? How different is the franchise now compared to when the original was released? Can any assets from the original be re-used? What are the capabilities of the system we are planning to release the remake on? Would the sales justify the cost if the majority of the content has to be created from scratch if not can we change our target system to meet our budget?


As a publisher I would never put as much priority in a remake vs a new title.

Now what makes it a full remake is a good question. One which I cant give a good answer to, as there really is no precedent to look at for one.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I can only comment on the third one, but they would need something that either approaches the Tech demo they showed at the beginning of the Gen or at least on the level of XIII.

Otherwise I do think it would be received negativly by a large group of people.

I would argue that these two aren't astronomically different, at least in terms of general aesthetic quality as opposed to a feature per feature technical comparison.

final-fantasy-vii-technical-demo-for-ps3-20060119005758781.jpg


final-fantasy-xiii-2-20111201043017478.jpg
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Fair enough. A bigger issue would be how XIII-2 runs, which I think would be pretty bad to ship a VII remake and have it not even run at 30FPS like I saw in another thread for XIII-2.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Fair enough. A bigger issue would be how XIII-2 runs, which I think would be pretty bad to ship a VII remake and have it not even run at 30FPS like I saw in another thread for XIII-2.

That's more of an optimization issue as opposed to what the game is doing from a technical perspective.

There's something rather wrong with their engine in terms of memory usage, and for some reason they're running FFXIII-2 with vsync but no triple buffering, which causes huge framerate fluctuations as the game has to wait for the entire frame to draw no matter what.

That said, I don't think people really see framerate in marketing campaigns, and I don't think it is as big an issue for an RPG.
 

Kenka

Member
32 pages.
Isn't this the second longest MC thread ever, with the 41 one from GW 2007 being the first?
I a a bit upset that the last three pages (or last 150 posts for the cheeky posters) are all about Sony is Doomed!
I wish I had new materials to fap on, not a nonesense convo between zealots in which the only valuable piece of info was the debt Sony owns to the world. I wanna know how many copies MH3G moved last week.

But yeah, thread is pretty huge. I don't complain.
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
I wish I had new materials to fap on, not a nonesense convo between zealots in which the only valuable piece of info was the debt Sony owns to the world.
It's true. I secretly want Sony's debt to double in the next two years.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I a a bit upset that the last three pages (or last 150 posts for the cheeky posters) are all about Sony is Doomed!
I wish I had new materials to fap on, not a nonesense convo between zealots in which the only valuable piece of info was the debt Sony owns to the world. I wanna know how many copies MH3G moved last week.

But yeah, thread is pretty huge. I don't complain.

I feel people like to lump any and all negativity as "doomed" speak.

Like the "Nintendo is 'doomed'" speak in the earlier Media Create threads often was people just identifying the problems they had at the time.

1.) High price relative to perceived hardware value.
2.) Lack of content with high sales potential.
3.) Poor marketing in terms of product differentiation.
4.) Weak digital and online presence.

Lo and behold, when they fixed these issues, their sales went up a lot.

Now we're identifying Sony's key problems as:

1.) Lack of content with high sales potential.
2.) No obvious route to solve point 1 without subsidies. Nintendo had to actually lose money to solve their 3DS problems, but Sony is in a less good position to do so.

Overall I would say that the list of problems people are outlining for Sony is notably shorter than they did for Nintendo. It's just that this one point is perceived as being harder than any of the individual issues Nintendo had.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
With the 3DS you had at least the guaranteed first party blockbuster which everyone knew where coming like Mario Kart and Pokemon at a later point, Nintendo released the hardware a lil bit early and the price point was to high - it should have launched at 20K Yen max.

Even without 3rd party support as strong as it is right now for the 3DS, the console would have sold once Nintendo big games would be released and they dropped the price. The Vita on the other hand depends way more on 3rd party input, since first party wise Sony wont be able to quick drop the hardware price or release systemseller software content.
 

Kenka

Member
It's true. I secretly want Sony's debt to double in the next two years.
Ah shit, you quoted my mistake. I wanted to write "owes", not "owns". :-(
Oh, and I used "_______ is Doomed™ " just to fit in GAF's hivemind, nothing more.

Nirolak said:
Like the "Nintendo is 'doomed'" speak in the earlier Media Create threads often was people just identifying the problems they had at the time.

[...]

Now we're identifying Sony's key problems as:

1.) Lack of content with high sales potential.
2.) No obvious route to solve point 1 without subsidies. Nintendo had to actually lose money to solve their 3DS problems, but Sony is in a less good position to do so.

Which begs for the next question. Why did Sony counter the 3DS with another piece of expensive hardware ? Didn't they consider what could be the best answer to Nintendo's strength outside of just more raw power and fancier specs? I know they have a much more developed OS, but software-wise, they are kinda unable to compete with Mario's and MH's brand mindshare.

The PSP was launched in a better period, economically-wise. People's wallet is thinner. Maybe it would be a good option to go the subscription-based model road and follow Apple's strategy with the iPhone ?
 

Laguna

Banned
With the 3DS you had at least the guaranteed first party blockbuster which everyone knew where coming like Mario Kart and Pokemon at a later point, Nintendo released the hardware a lil bit early and the price point was to high - it should have launched at 20K Yen max.

Even without 3rd party support as strong as it is right now for the 3DS, the console would have sold once Nintendo big games would be released and they dropped the price. The Vita on the other hand depends way more on 3rd party input, since first party wise Sony wont be able to quick drop the hardware price or release systemseller software content.

Well, I really wonder what Sony and other publishers have up their sleeves for Vita right now we mostly only know about games aimed for early 2012. Maybe it´s to early to make any assumptions but what games could help Vita sales for the second half of 2012? FFX is a possible release but then we really have no informations about many other games for the second half and especially for the Sep.-Dec 2012 timeframe. Possible games could be Gundam a Musou game and Ridge Racers (complete) that includes all the dlc.

There aren´t any confirmed second half releases for 3DS as well, the likely contenders would be Dragon Quest M, Paper Mario, Bravely Default and possibly a new Pokemon game. 3DS has the benefit of having a great 1st half with MGS, Resi, KH and Fire Emblem that likely will help 3ds selling well.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Which begs for the next question. Why did Sony counter the 3DS with another piece of expensive hardware ? Didn't they consider what could be the best answer to Nintendo's strength outside of just more raw power and fancier specs? I know they have a much more developed OS, but software-wise, they are kinda unable to compete with Mario's and MH's brand mindshare.

The PSP was launched in a better period, economically-wise. People's wallet is thinner. Maybe it would be a good option to go the subscription-based model road and follow Apple's strategy with the iPhone ?

Well, let's look at Sony's secured strengths as a developer.

1.) They own fourteen Western development studios, and two Japanese development studios.
2.) Their three biggest brands are the following:
-Gran Turismo: Highly accurate racing simulator with great graphics.
-Uncharted: Highlight cinematic third person shooter with great graphics.
-God of War: Highlight cinematic action/adventure with great graphics.

This system plays to their strengths, and is also what both their first and third party studios told them they wanted when they went around surveying them.

It doesn't fit that well with Japan, but that's true of the company (as a developer) as a whole.

I don't think Sony can beat Apple in the smartphone business, and I don't think they can compete with Nintendo's franchises on hardware of the same specifications, so they're pushing with what they do best: cinematic games with good graphics and trying to drum up as much third party support as possible (in this case, by making the system easy to develop for and targeting a specification developers are used to).
 

Laguna

Banned
It doesn't fit that well with Japan, but that's true of the company (as a developer) as a whole.

That´s an understatement. Looking at the sales I would say it doesn´t fit at all. It´s really funny that they didn´t expand in Japan, to support their handheld division. Obviously their handheld strategy for Japan looks as simple as this, cash in on 3rd parties efforts with no effort.
 

Kenka

Member
Well, let's look at Sony's secured strengths as a developer.

1.) They own fourteen Western development studios, and two Japanese development studios.
[...]

This system plays to their strengths, and is also what both their first and third party studios told them they wanted when they went around surveying them.

It doesn't fit that well with Japan, but that's true of the company (as a developer) as a whole.

I don't think Sony can beat Apple in the smartphone business, and I don't think they can compete with Nintendo's franchises on hardware of the same specifications, so they're pushing with what they do best: cinematic games with good graphics and trying to drum up as much third party support as possible (in this case, by making the system easy to develop for and targeting a specification developers are used to).
Pretty good post, couldn't summarize it further in the quote.

Alright, I read through it, and sadly it looks like Sony took good care of the B2B side and let the customer-focused apporach in the toilet.

- Price tag is high
- Accessories outside of the package required to play games
- House-made hardware that is more expensive than the rest of the market
+ Capable hardware
+ Evolutive services (à la Apple)

Nothing on the "+" side can distinguish them in the smartphone-crowded market and they get beaten by Nintendo on the "-" side. Is there a market in this rough SWOT configuration ? That is the real question for the Vita so far.
 

noobie

Banned
Pretty good post, couldn't summarize it further in the quote.

Alright, I read through it, and sadly it looks like Sony took good care of the B2B side and let the customer-focused apporach in the toilet.

- Price tag is high
- Accessories outside of the package required to play games
- House-made hardware that is more expensive than the rest of the market
+ Capable hardware
+ Evolutive services (à la Apple)

Nothing on the "+" side can distinguish them in the smartphone-crowded market and they get beaten by Nintendo on the "-" side. Is there a market in this rough SWOT configuration ? That is the real question for the Vita so far.

I dont think price is high.. They announced the price when 3DS was selling at that price.. plus they have features which truly back up this price.

About the accessories i think it is the same approach MS has taken and they have tried to redo it in Handheld market.

I think only problem is the games. They need block busters and they need a block buster franchise from Sony Japan to be their all weather game for mass market. They tried with LBP and ModNations but they have failed miserably. I think these two games should have done well ... but i dont know what else Sony could have done to make them bigger franchises in Japan
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Pretty good post, couldn't summarize it further in the quote.

Alright, I read through it, and sadly it looks like Sony took good care of the B2B side and let the customer-focused apporach in the toilet.

- Price tag is high
- Accessories outside of the package required to play games
- House-made hardware that is more expensive than the rest of the market
+ Capable hardware
+ Evolutive services (à la Apple)

Nothing on the "+" side can distinguish them in the smartphone-crowded market and they get beaten by Nintendo on the "-" side. Is there a market in this rough SWOT configuration ? That is the real question for the Vita so far.

While I've been avoiding saying this since I think some people will maul me for making the suggestion, I actually feel that Sony has been incredibly upfront in terms of their long term plans for the Vita.

I'll illuminate on why this might be a controversial statement in a moment, but first, I want to break up my argument a bit.

Part 1: The Evidence

- House-made hardware that is more expensive than the rest of the market
So first it's actually pretty important to note here that this is not a custom made system. The CPU and GPU are essentially exactly the same as the iPhone, where the only difference is the number of cores and some slight modifications to the GPU. This will be important in a moment.

Also, here are three quite notable quotes:

GamesIndustry.biz said:
Q: The PS Vita price was a nice surprise at E3. But at that price is the system going to be sold at a loss form day one?

Andrew House: I think as a business it will definitely be profitable from day one. In terms of hardware specifically, it's really not something we tend to comment on, but I would say it will be a significantly better situation than for example, the PlayStation 3. This is in a much, much healthier place from a profitability stand point.
Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-06-13-sonys-andrew-house-editorial

Eurogamer said:
Eurogamer: The Vita price is cheaper than expected. Was that a deliberate move?

Andrew House: I characterise it as a very strong push from the marketing and publishing arm within the organisation. If we were to build not just a core gamer audience for Vita but to move, I would hope very swiftly, towards more of a mass market proposition, having a strategic, aggressive price was clearly a key part of that equation.

I'm really happy we were able to achieve that. Our engineers have done a stellar job of delivering a great product, but also allowing us to hit a price point we feel is attractive.

The strategy, in essence, is we want phase one to appeal to the core gamer audience, technology and entertainment enthusiasts, hope they validate the experience, but then move more swiftly than with PlayStation Portable into a much broader audience.

Price is important. But a lot of the experiences are designed with connectivity from the ground up. We think that's an absolute essential, particularly for a younger audience. Certainly based on the experience of my own kids, they view connectivity and connected devices as a birthright. That is a key part of the proposition.
Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-09-sonys-andrew-house-interview

Gamerzines said:
Sony will be shifting its business strategy to target Vita at a "younger demographic" by 2014, SCEE CEO Jim Ryan has said.

"Day one (buyers are) going to be our good old core gaming demographic: mid 20s, largely male," said Ryan talking to EDGE.

"What we will look to do is go younger rather more quickly and more deliberately than we did with PSP.

"You won't see that so much in 2012, and in 2013 we'll still be very much at the core of it, but shortly that a lot of the business strategy will be (based) around targeting a somewhat younger demographic."
Source: http://www.gamerzines.com/psp/news/vita-younger-audience-2014.html

Part 2: My Conclusions

So, reading the above, I see Sony stating that their strategy is essentially this:

-The real target market for the PlayStation Vita is teenagers, which is the market that tends to be far less favorable to Nintendo, but doesn't always have enough money for either a smartphone or a brand new console.
-However, to successfully target teenagers, they feel they need a system that can offer a console like experience.
-As mentioned above, price is a big factor for being able to target teenagers successfully, so by making the PlayStation Vita with some of the world's most common smartphones parts, and launching relatively early, they can drop the price to $150-$180 by the end of 2013 without bleeding tons of money. At this point, they can also have a large catalog of cheap games, which is important when selling something to people on a tight budget.
-However, in order to sell the system early and build this catalog, they need someone to sell the system to, so for the system's first two years, it will target core gamers while Sony hopes to make a small profit, or at least break even.
-This does imply that Sony intends to pull the rug out from their original audience a bit when they switch the target audience of the system pretty early in its lifecycle. The answer to not overly displeasing their customers though revolves around doing this switch at the same time they release the PlayStation 4. With older core gamers focusing on that platform and its shiny new games instead, they are less likely to notice that their Vita is getting less games targeted at them.
-Since the PlayStation 4 could very well cost $400+ at the time it launches, it also doesn't interfere with their target audience of teenagers as a large percentage of them can't afford to buy the new platform, especially with its $60 games.
-Teenagers are also an area where Sony has a unique advantage, as they are one of the only publishers who make AAA Western core games that are rated T instead of M. While lots of teenagers can play M rated games, quite a few can't, so when they are upset that they can't buy Halo, Gears, or Call of Duty, at least they can go buy Uncharted and Infamous.
-Sony's software pricing strategy with the Vita also helps them on this front, as they are willing to launch notable new games at $30, and if those are still too much, they intend to have a large suite of $10-$20 downloadable titles on top of their now notably cheaper back catalog.
-Teenagers are also one audience where it is less likely that their customers will feel embarrassed to use their system in public, which is a common problem handhelds face in the West. Quite a few 30 years old might not feel comfortable taking their Vita out on the bus, however, no one is going to bat an eye if a 15 year old does it.

Now, assuming their business doesn't completely implode within the first two years, this plan doesn't actually seem that bad to me.

However, this plan only works in the West where they can release a lot of notable titles themselves and also pretty easily pick up worthwhile third party games for teenagers like sports games and racing titles.

In Japan, as mentioned before, they don't have a strong first party line-up, and they don't really have a set of guaranteed third party games that can sell a lot of copies. Even in the PSP's worst years, FIFA sold quite respectable. In Japan on the other hand, Pro Evo isn't going to do the same for them. Also, I get the impression that Japanese teenagers don't have as strong of a "Kidtendo/Casualtendo" feeling toward the Nintendo's platforms, especially since the 3DS now has much of the Japanese PSP line-up, meaning that it is a much less open market for Sony to try and get.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
I dont think price is high.. They announced the price when 3DS was selling at that price.. plus they have features which truly back up this price.

Matching the price of an expensive device doesn't make it chaper.

4gamer is still here. There is a chance we'll get the numbers in time tomorrow.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Matching the price of an expensive device doesn't make it chaper.

Plus, the "worth" of hardware isnt just defined by its hardware components its always a combination of software and hardware. If the 3DS had launched with 3D Land and Tri G way less people would have thought it is overpirced.

Same for Vita, no matter how good the hardware is - if interesting content is missing people wont care and be willing to spend the money for it.
 
About the accessories i think it is the same approach MS has taken and they have tried to redo it in Handheld market.
This is a misconception, Microsoft's approach was to jack up the price of the memory so that consumers were basically forced to buy the more expensive hardware sku. Only foolish or impatient shoppers bought the initial tard pack.

I've said this before but Sony should have followed Microsoft's lead and offered the 3g unit at $350 bundled with a 32gb card. People can buy the wi fi and memory at ripoff pricing but the 3g would offer value while also offering Sony the higher price on hardware. Win/win for everyone and it's frustrating they didn't go that route.
 

Orgen

Member
Even generally, SE is rapidly running out of remake real estate.

Not because there aren't games that haven't been remade (There are), but that the remaining ones can't be remade on feasible financial budgets. I do not think, for example, that FFX will be significantly "remade" for its HD port, simply because the costs would be enormous for a project that isn't likely to sell more than a million.

NES games can get remade in to PS1 games. PS1 games can get remade in to PS2 games. But PS2 games (and FFVII thanks to SE's own stupidly positioned hype train) will never be things one can remake on PS2 budgets, because the expectation is that a remake would look better than the original, for obvious reasons. Remakes on PS3/360 budgets -- or PS4/720 budgets, as would likely be the case if FFVII began remaking right now -- are a very tough sell to investors.

You don't think FF V/FF VI could be remade with the Bravely Default engine? And you don't think this would be on a feasible financial budget?

Fanboy dreams aside (FF VIIR HD, Nintendo Hearts/Quest RPG... the hell) what SE needs now is make a good engine for handhelds and get 2-3 good games with it. Just like they made with Crisis Core, Dissidia and Birth By Sleep on PSP. Three games that sold +700k in Japan and I'm sure that they were made on a feasible financial budget and made a good profit.

Right now they have two good engines on 3DS (Bravely Default and KH 3D). One could be used for turn based RPG and the other for Action RPG. Now it's up to SE to think about good ideas/games that could go with this engines. More FF/DQ remakes? FF/DQ spin-offs? New games?

Personally I'd try with an Action RPG. Maybe SE could revisit some of their SNES Action RPG's like the Seiken Densetsu (Mana) Saga, Illusion of Time, Terranigma... or try something new.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
You don't think FF V/FF VI could be remade with the Bravely Default engine? And you don't think this would be on a feasible financial budget?

Fanboy dreams aside (FF VIIR HD, Nintendo Hearts/Quest RPG... the hell) what SE needs now is make a good engine for handhelds and get 2-3 good games with it. Just like they made with Crisis Core, Dissidia and Birth By Sleep on PSP. Three games that sold +700k in Japan and I'm sure that they were made on a feasible financial budget and made a good profit.

Right now they have two good engines on 3DS (Bravely Default and KH 3D). One could be used for turn based RPG and the other for Action RPG. Now it's up to SE to think about good ideas/games that could go with this engines. More FF/DQ remakes? FF/DQ spin-offs? New games?

Personally I'd try with an Action RPG. Maybe SE could revisit some of their SNES Action RPG's like the Seiken Densetsu (Mana) Saga, Illusion of Time, Terranigma... or try something new.

They're currently busy licensing Unity: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=454292

Not sure if that works on the 3DS yet though (or if you would necessarily want to use it there).

It is incredibly high productivity however.
 

orioto

Good Art™
My personal preference would have been Square to never stop using pre-rendered backgrounds with engines similar to the 3 playstation games, at least that would have been better artistically.

But actually i'm pretty sure the costs would have rise the same or even more like that...

The difference is that they could have release impressive and beautiful main FF on portable platforms, psp, 3ds, iphones and such..
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
My personal preference would have been Square to never stop using pre-rendered backgrounds with engines similar to the 3 playstation games, at least that would have been better artistically.

But actually i'm pretty sure the costs would have rise the same or even more like that...

The difference is that they could have release impressive and beautiful main FF on portable platforms, psp, 3ds, iphones and such..

That tends to take a really large amount of space though, which can be a notable problem on portables, especially when you combine it with their tendency to have CG video.
 

orioto

Good Art™
That tends to take a really large amount of space though, which can be a notable problem on portables.

I'm not even sure about that honestly. I mean, on portble platforms you have a lower rez, and you can compress images a lot without noticing it, and have some minor part animated. I mean the 1,3 gigs of FFVII are largly due to the movies, more than the backgrounds i guess, and still, 1,3 gig for such a wide and long game isn't that much of a deal today. Many demos on psn are actually bigger than that. Vita games can be 4 gigs..
 

Oxx

Member
I know publishers tend not to think long-term, but static/pre-rendered backgrounds don't really lend themselves to future ports.

Is there a device out there that SE could port Bravely Default to that wouldn't make the game look assy? (Apart from PSP)
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I'm not even sure about that honestly. I mean, on portble platforms you have a lower rez, and you can compress images a lot without noticing it, and have some minor part animated. I mean the 1,3 gigs of FFVII are largly due to the movies, more than the backgrounds i guess, and still, 1,3 gig for such a wide and long game isn't that much of a deal today. Many demos on psn are actually bigger than that. Vita games can be 4 gigs..

It's less of an issue in that it won't fit these days, but that it can raise the cost of the cartridges you have to buy to fit the game.
 
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