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Mellon Collie and The Infinite Sadness turns 20, is still sad
- Thread starter ¡HarlequinPanic!
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Red Blaster
Member
too bloated and flood was a major downgrade from butch vig. plus the beginning of the end for billy corgan with gems like:
"cause you're all whores and im a fag and ive got no mother and ive got no dad"
what
"cause you're all whores and im a fag and ive got no mother and ive got no dad"
what
Fleet_of_Foot
Member
This album, even if I never listened to it again, would be ingrained in my brain and soul forever. It's probably my favorite of theirs, if I had to choose one. I know every note and every word.
Some people say Billy has become annoying and no longer makes good music. I don't feel like arguing against that and sometimes even agree with it. But any band would be happy to create one album or even one song that becomes timeless and such a huge part of peoples' lives. Most bands don't do that, but the Pumpkins did it. Arguably, they did it several times. I think Billy can rest easy with that fact, no matter what else he does in life.
Some people say Billy has become annoying and no longer makes good music. I don't feel like arguing against that and sometimes even agree with it. But any band would be happy to create one album or even one song that becomes timeless and such a huge part of peoples' lives. Most bands don't do that, but the Pumpkins did it. Arguably, they did it several times. I think Billy can rest easy with that fact, no matter what else he does in life.
You know Corgan's dad beat the shit out of him when he was young, and he also had some pretty weird intimacy/sexual experiences growing up (per his own now-defunct blog, even) right?
I can't really cherish or relate to the lyrics either, but there is a reason.
dead souls
Member
I love this album so much. The fact that it's 20 makes me feel old.
¡HarlequinPanic!
Member
Well said, quickster
Red Blaster
Member
yes i know all about corgan's shitty youth in st. pete florida. but that lyric is stupid as shit and he was like 29 when he wrote it too. compare it to something like today which he wrote when depressed and suicidal--he's at his strength when he's vague and cryptic. it's why gish in a lot of ways has aged the best because it's a very psychedelic/instrument driven record.
My first girlfriend gave me this album as our "one month anniversary" present. It was all downhill from there.
agreed.
agreed.
The Outsider
Member
One of my favorite albums of all time. Those first few Pumpkins albums are just damn near perfection.
sixteen-bit
Member
Happy anniversary. I used to spin this one a lot.
uncelestial
Member
Oh I dunno. Siamese Dream has probably aged the best. Other than "I used to beeeee a little boy" and "I'm in love with youuuuu (so in love!)" that is.
The metallic tinge to a lot of the rock moments on Gish (palm muting, solos, and wah, oh my) smells like the 80s. The more melodic moments like the end of Bury Me, Snail, and Crush are by far the strongest, along with the quieter, psych-sounding moments) -- and that's what they perfected in the SD era. I don't think I really need to listen to I am One again but at that time it was both a single and an album opener, in their minds.
¡HarlequinPanic!
Member
You're in for a treat
Livingskeletons
If I pulled that off, would you die?
Always preferred Siamese Dream more.
That being said Porcelina of the Vast Oceans is a gem of a track.
That being said Porcelina of the Vast Oceans is a gem of a track.
31GhostsIV
Banned
I loved this album at the time, and I remember watching them do an awesome show supporting it, however over the past twenty years their previous albums aged better. Siamese Dream is still their best (IMO, obviously).
I loved the creativity and scope of the album though, my 16 year old mind was blown.
I loved the creativity and scope of the album though, my 16 year old mind was blown.
Billy didn't just put a bunch of words together to make a song. He also probably doesn't give a shit if what he is singing makes sense to the general masses. The guy has a lot of issues and laid it all out for anyone really listening to understand.
Oh man, thank you for this thread. MCIS is one of my favorite albums. I still occasionally give it a listen now, even though I've outgrown some of the angstier tracks. There is a raw beauty to some of the songs that I think redeems them from being just movements in an opera for emotional teenagers.
The word I'd use to describe the MCIS at its best musically is evocative, which is a word I'd apply to only a few other pieces of music in pop. I don't just mean that the music evokes emotions; although it does. I also mean that musically some of the best tracks on MCIS evoke images and scenes in my mind without even considering the lyrics. When the lyrics are added, even though Corgan is capable of throwing off a cringeworthy line or two, the impact is heightened because when Corgan is on he is really on as a lyricist. Corgan has few peers in his ability to write lyrics that hit emotionally like a sledgehammer.
I always hear people that there is too much filler in the album. That statement probably is true, but when I try to think of songs I'd remove, I really can't come up with any. Strangely, the only song I would definitely leave out would probably be Bullet with a Butterfly Wings, which is the song I think people most associate with the Pumpkins. I never really liked it.
Overall, the I think the best thing about the Pumpkins is that they were willing to take risks to create something grand. That spirit and ambition of risk taking flew in the face both of the slick commercialized sound of the party/arena rock of the 80's and the stripped down purist aesthetic that started with punk and continued to hold sway in the 90's in alternative and independent circles. What resulted in my opinion was an album that, although it contained some misses, hit highs that few of its contemporaries could and stands out as unique 20 years later.
The word I'd use to describe the MCIS at its best musically is evocative, which is a word I'd apply to only a few other pieces of music in pop. I don't just mean that the music evokes emotions; although it does. I also mean that musically some of the best tracks on MCIS evoke images and scenes in my mind without even considering the lyrics. When the lyrics are added, even though Corgan is capable of throwing off a cringeworthy line or two, the impact is heightened because when Corgan is on he is really on as a lyricist. Corgan has few peers in his ability to write lyrics that hit emotionally like a sledgehammer.
I always hear people that there is too much filler in the album. That statement probably is true, but when I try to think of songs I'd remove, I really can't come up with any. Strangely, the only song I would definitely leave out would probably be Bullet with a Butterfly Wings, which is the song I think people most associate with the Pumpkins. I never really liked it.
Overall, the I think the best thing about the Pumpkins is that they were willing to take risks to create something grand. That spirit and ambition of risk taking flew in the face both of the slick commercialized sound of the party/arena rock of the 80's and the stripped down purist aesthetic that started with punk and continued to hold sway in the 90's in alternative and independent circles. What resulted in my opinion was an album that, although it contained some misses, hit highs that few of its contemporaries could and stands out as unique 20 years later.
The Landslide cover aside, Hello Kitty Kat is a wonderfully, almost out-of-place track on there (and my fave), and Iha's Blew Away is golden. Just a great, great album.
Mr. Poolman
Member
Such a great album. Brings back a lot of memories.
I'm really fond of this part of In the Arms of Sleep
I steal a kiss from her sleeping shadow moves
Cause I'll always miss her wherever she goes
And I'll always need her more than she could ever need me
I need someone to ease my mind
But sometimes a someone is so hard to find
And I'll do anything to keep her here tonite
And I'll say anything to make her feel alright
And I'll be anything to keep her here tonite
Cause I want you to stay, with me
I need you tonite
I'm really fond of this part of In the Arms of Sleep
I steal a kiss from her sleeping shadow moves
Cause I'll always miss her wherever she goes
And I'll always need her more than she could ever need me
I need someone to ease my mind
But sometimes a someone is so hard to find
And I'll do anything to keep her here tonite
And I'll say anything to make her feel alright
And I'll be anything to keep her here tonite
Cause I want you to stay, with me
I need you tonite
uncelestial
Member
Here is Billy playing "In the Arms of Sleep" the day I saw SP in Concord, CA w/JC on drums this year. He still sounds pretty damn good when he has the right situation. Interesting how only now he has developed a consistent control of his voice's (very fast-oscillating) natural vibrato.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mJNYHW3XJw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mJNYHW3XJw
teruterubozu
Member
This is about when I lost interest - the pompous title, the orchestra and Corgan's new Uncle Fester look.
¡HarlequinPanic!
Member
I feel that way about Zero, lol. Its like the anti-pumpkins song, short punchy and to the point. where's the indulgence~
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Amazing album.
Not a huge fan of their latest stuff, though Violet Rays off the album Oceania sounds like you could slide it into Mellon Collie and you wouldn't blink an eye. Great song.
Not a huge fan of their latest stuff, though Violet Rays off the album Oceania sounds like you could slide it into Mellon Collie and you wouldn't blink an eye. Great song.
dead souls
Member
It's definitely a case of a really good double album that could've been a flawlessly great single album.
Some of the slightly weaker songs could've just joined the dozens of other great B sides the Pumpkins put out over the years.
wandering goat
Member
Fuck the haters, this is the Pumpkin's best album, even if you ignore disc 2 which is definitely weaker (though still has plenty of great songs).
IrishNinja
Member
my favorite pumpkins album, just wish the vinyl was cheaper
TheBaldEmperor
Member
One of the greatest albums ever made. Pretty much untouchable. Listened to some live stuff from this era today. X.Y.U. slayed in 1997.
uncelestial
Member
The night has come to hold us young
So epic; if I all of the sudden could play guitar this just might be the first thing I'd attempt. LOL.
So basically like everything else from 2007 to now there's a glaring problem with the album, it just can't come together like all the previous SP albums from Gish to Machina 2; there is a serious problem somewhere.
So epic; if I all of the sudden could play guitar this just might be the first thing I'd attempt. LOL.
The funny thing about Oceania is that it's actually not that bad... it is probably the most Siamese Dream-y thing they've done since 1993 if we're talking about the guitar. I was highly critical of it, but when you take a step back the only problem is Mike's ham-fisted drumming that pretty much ANYONE could do (who has played drums in a band). It really hurts the album. I wish they'd do another mix with JC on drums. Just mute Mike's track and have Jimmy play over the guitar dubs. I still think Violet Rays is kinda lame, it reminds me of an Avril Lavigne song. Glissandra on the other hand is so very much like Siamese Dream.
So basically like everything else from 2007 to now there's a glaring problem with the album, it just can't come together like all the previous SP albums from Gish to Machina 2; there is a serious problem somewhere.
TheBaldEmperor
Member
Hey, man. It's just how it is.
The lyrics are really stupid and juvenile, for sure.
It's all about the riff... it's a very memorable riff, it hooks you right away, and is a good way to get a concert going.
GeordieMark
Member
This. Still a really good album though, and very ambitious
Now that is a real underrated gem. Always loved that song.
Well, I think there's something to that, save for Zeitgeist, which at least felt pretty coherent overall. I increasingly feel like that without JC in the band, the cohesiveness of the SP's album stylistically tends to fall apart and meander, like loose sketches in someone's notebook.
Oceania came somewhat close there, although it felt like it was the opening salvo to a sort of incomplete thought. Monuments to an Elegy just felt more like a B-side or some lost demos that got cleaned up a bit. It was all over the map.
On an unrelated note, I was pretty pleased to see that JC's still drumming and making music. It's a pretty big departure for anyone who wants to hear that alternative sound, but my tastes run broad and I just love that quality JC brings to drumming, so I can at least take comfort in that.
I would still love to hear anything along the lines of a pure BC/JC EP's worth of material or a new JCC album.
uncelestial
Member
Why is the Machina reissue taking so long? I am stoked to hear it as more of a complete vision. BC said he was going to combine I and II. Hopefully it gets remixed too, because it kinda sounded like shit.
Supposedly there is some label issue. Hope it gets sorted out as it's the reissue I anticipated the most.
kitchenmotors
Banned
Your avatar. <3
Adore is my favorite SP album. I know it put off a lot of fans coming from MCIS, but it was pretty daring of Billy at the time to put out that record. I have the original vinyl release signed by Billy himself from a show at the Metro. Love the vinyl version, the mono mix is the best version.
uncelestial
Member
By the way, NPR has a great story on Mellon Collie's artwork. It's a bit old but someone on my FB feed reshared it.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thereco...ampaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2048
At the very least, check out the slideshow with the elements of the artwork all singled out
http://www.npr.org/sections/thereco...ampaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2048
At the very least, check out the slideshow with the elements of the artwork all singled out
TheBaldEmperor
Member
Thanks! Some of my favorite artwork is from the Adore booklet.
Very cool.
inked_illusion
Member
Sorry but I laughed a bit at that.
Mellon Collie back in my high schools didn't really clicked with me (besides the singles) I thought it was mostly a filler double album at best. Nowadays, I think it's the most varied Smashing Pumpkins album to date (despite Twilight to Starlight being the better half of the two personally)
I'm in the minority here but my all time favourite album from them is Gish bar none. It has more groove than the rest of the discography and felt like the band was just having fun making it even if that wasn't the case.
Still odd to think I'm older than some of these albums, pretty crazy.
CountAntonius
Member
Amazing album always.
Probably my favorite bit of the entire album, that last half of that song.
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