SquiddyCracker
Banned
Read your source, it says "Other related problems not directly addressed by this guide include:".
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Men rights and issues
- Thread starter SquiddyCracker
- Start date
- Status
Read your source, it says "Other related problems not directly addressed by this guide include:".
You mean the conscripts that were disproportionately poor minority men?
This is a *revolting* sentiment. The effective word is "coercion". Coercion is by definition inimical to genuine consent. They cannot co-exist.
No they aren't. They're listed under "related problems". Your reading comprehension is rather poor for someone whose "field is law".
Ein Soph Aur
Member
By being a man and being of color, you can actually be worse off in certain ways that no one else can understand. You may often be viewed as a thug, violent criminal, or simply unfit for a professional work capacity. Look up the statistics of minority men (especially black) who are pulled over, or searched and frisked without cause by the police in (progressive liberal, safe!) NYC. This isn't something any woman here has to worry about.
I wouldn't call it pressure if such an agreement was made previous to the birth of the child. Just like I wouldn't call it pressure if you agreed to a legally binding EULA, then later wanted to break that EULA. I contend that adult mothers should be able to make decisions about or for their children, good or bad. Obviously this wouldn't apply to non-adults.
I also would be okay with a government subsidy for single mothers who decide to break the contract.
TUROK
Member
Raped? No. Beaten and mugged? Yes. That's why I carry a knife with me.
WorriedCitizen
Member
Right because only the USA conscripted soldiers. I totally forgot.
It's possible, but would you rather be afraid of being robbed and stabbed? Or RAPED, robbed and stabbed? That was just one thing though. Men are more likely to be considered for many jobs simply because they're men. They're also more likely than women to be promoted and in any case men are on average paid significantly better than women doing the same job on average.
Devolution
Member
Oh you want to talk about other countries and how they treat women? Hahaha. Okay.
oh right, all the other countries conscripted their rich men.
White trash is indeed a racist phrase.
Please continue to lob personal attacks at me though.
No they aren't. Even when feminism was about equality, it was from a (much-needed) female perspective. And it's since been hijacked. That's a whole other issue, and no matter how many "waves" you try to break it up into, it is now impossible to separate the term "feminism" from those who use it to attack men or to keep women in constant fear of drummed up issues and ignorant of more prevalent ones (breast cancer vs heart disease, for example). Just as many people see extremely angry and hateful "MRAs" as the face for all MRAs, people see extremely angry and hateful "feminists" as the face of all feminists.
This very thread and the attitudes, misconceptions, and one liners that certain people are trotting out is evidence enough that men's issues can't be discussed from the current common perspective. When someone brings up a legitimate issue they're typically told to shut up and enjoy their privilege, or to "take it like a man", or "women had it worse at one time, deal with it". Discussion and equality can't progress under such "discourse".
On the flip side, as mentioned above, there are people who label themselves as MRAs but don't have any structure or standard level of discourse. There's no unifying goal or movement for these MRAs, so the crazies tend to take focus. We need a serious movement and academic field to set the tone and carry a unifying set of goals forward. We don't have that and until we do people will say "lol men's rights" and point to some clowns on reddit as exemplary of all MRAs.
If you're looking for examples of good discourse (even if you disagree) with regards to MRAs, check out stuff like Fathers & Families or Glenn Sacks (though I haven't read his stuff in a few years, I think he became less involved since it was taking away time from his family).
Just as with feminism, there's tons out there beyond the hateful crazies. But MRAs haven't had a large movement yet and there is still plenty of time to form and shape that movement in people's minds. I don't think men's rights has been irreparably hijacked in the way feminism has, but it does need its own movement and field if we're going to prevent from immediately devolving into crazies on each side attacking each other.
Men can be raped just as women. Men are far more likely to be the victims of violent crime than women. Women are more likely to be considered for many jobs just because they're women, too. And men and women are in fact paid the same for doing the same work. There was a thread on GAF about that last one specifically (probably 2 years ago).
See above. Or check out the FBI crime statistics. Whenever my girlfriend says she doesn't want to walk to 7-11 alone at night I tell her she's statistically safer doing it than I am and to not live her life in fear.
Women can also be beaten and mugged. So it's still 2 v 1 alley threats.
Yeah, we all know racism is alive and well in the US.
Wait, do MRAs acknowledge racism? Or do POC have unfair advantages too??
John Dunbar
correct about everything
i live in a country that conscripts all men.
If a man decides to have sex with a woman without protection (thus already being negligent), but was clever enough to sign this contract beforehand and now he's magically erased all of his "fault" if a pregnancy results? What?
It is definitely a rude, classist phrase.
My point is that Mudkips chooses to be outspoken about the rights of white people and men and not about the rights of women or POC. Which means that he is only interested in defending people of privilege, people who need the LEAST defending, and that is shitty.
But maybe I'm wrong. I've just never seen him step up to bat for POC or women on this forum.
My point is that Mudkips chooses to be outspoken about the rights of white people and men and not about the rights of women or POC. Which means that he is only interested in defending people of privilege, people who need the LEAST defending, and that is shitty.
But maybe I'm wrong. I've just never seen him step up to bat for POC or women on this forum.
Well said. You probably should've been the one to create the thread and lead the discussion.
From the article:
So, no, flirting and stalking isn't rape according to that article. In addition, flirting is not verbal coercion. Verbal coercion is saying you'll hurt/murder/fail/etc. them if they don't fuck you, for example.
Then, you're gonna want to go live in an anarchist society. There's plenty of laws out there that allow for a lot of bad things to happen. I mean, I could arrange to frame somebody for murder and get away with it. That doesn't mean we throw murder laws.
You still need to take all data into account. When you throw out data because of your belief, not proof, that it's tainted you're being intellectually dishonest.
Devolution
Member
You guys should just put lopaz on ignore. The guy is delusional and uses sources like the Spearhead for christ's sake.
TUROK
Member
Men can also be raped, but that's apparently a statistical anomaly so I don't walk around with a fear of being raped.
Statistically speaking, most rapes are committed by people the victim knew. So, are women supposed to be on edge whenever they hang out with male friends, male family members, and their male significant others?
This is a massive lapse in logic. The groups with "privilege" don't have massive groups dedicated to protecting their rights like women, people of color, and other groups do, so to say that they need the least amount of defending just seems bitter and hateful.
That's not what they mean. It's not "damn, you have a fine ass, would you like to knock dem boots?" It's "if you don't have sex with me, I'll tell everyone what a prudish frigid bitch you are." Or "if you don't have sex with me, I'll kill you."
But hey, it's easier to make those feminists sound like sexless, frigid killjoys who withholding on the pussy supply.
Let's go through the rest of your list.
indecent exposure in college libraries Sexual assault.
"peeping Toms" on college campuses Sexual assault.
obscene phone calls made to college students Could very well be sexual assault.
sexual harassment This could lead to sexual assault.
abuse in college dating relationships (including violence other than sexual victimization) Some instances are going to include sexual assault.
stalking of college students. Could lead to sexual assault.
Oh, I guess it's not all that outlandish after all. But wait, there's more...
This is completely misleading. Above the reactionary list you posted, was the following comment:
Acquaintance rape is but one aspect of the larger set of problems related to sexual assault of college students, and a coherent college strategy should address all aspects of these problems. This guide is limited to crime addressing acquaintance rape. Other related problems not directly addressed by this guide include
Emphasis mine. They aren't calling those things rape. This post was specifically dealing with the issue of acquaintance rape (which is very seriously real), and listed other similar issues that plague college campuses that could be helped with the items they listed.
Just start posting on Stormfront.
You should also put the people on ignore who come in here saying "lol mens rights" and think this thread shouldn't even exist.
So feminism has been irrevocably hijacked by crazies, but men still have time to fix everything by their own movement. Well, I'm glad that's sorted now.
edit: except not really, duh. Sorry Kips.
A man doesn't decide to have sex with a woman, they both decide. They also both decide to sign the contract. Being "clever" has nothing to do with it, as that word has implications that do not belong in the discussion. If a person did whatever was in their power to stop something from happening, and another person with more control did everything in their power to make that thing happen, then I would say the former individual is not at fault for the action. The responsibility should lie with the latter individual.
Moral Panic
Member
In any case you are getting murdered, not exactly a nice thing to face.
As per the jobs, those are averages. They don't apply to every field, so it's more than possible that you are not affected by them. Many fields are female dominated. Wikipedia claims the gap may not be as bad as it once was.
My point is that just because you are a man doesn't mean you have had a privileged life.
WorriedCitizen
Member
Oh i thought this thread is about men's right issues. Don't mind me then.
But yea it's just telling what an ... (i almost wrote idiot) you are when the death of millions of young soldiers is a laughing matter to you and doesn't even deserve to be mentioned while you probably cry yourself to sleep over tropes in videogames.
cutmeamango
Banned
By poor minority you mean poor (or not-rich) majority right? As in economic demographics.
Because by race demographics, you'd need some crazy receipts to show.
Even if we were only to take the US in account, african american battalions were minimal (due segregation). And even by conscription alone, they would still not be proportionatelly higher, or higher at all.
---
And women are a minority now? Or as oppressed as minorities/subordinate like minorities commonly are?
Yeh that was a bad source. The sort of thing does go on though, see point 1 here http://exposingfeminism.wordpress.com/the-ten-most-common-feminist-myths/
That's not what he said at all. Nice failure at comprehension.
NovemberMike
Member
Eh, the whole stranger rape thing is largely a misrepresentation of the issue. Most rapes don't occur in a dark alley, they occur in a dwelling and it's among people that know each other. And this isn't a female victim only thing either, IIRC a recent CDC study that pegged male and female victim rate at nearly identical numbers (they didn't call male victim rape rape because they defined it as forced penetration, but if you look for the forced envelopement numbers they're there). Also, violent crime from strangers is largely a male victim issue, IIRC the rates of murder, assault, robbery etc are generally at least 2-3x worse for men than women.
I'm not coming at this from the Men's Rights side either, it's just that most people don't know the actual statistics.
Devolution
Member
I see you haven't bothered to read my posts where in I discuss issues men face and instead want to be inflammatory.
HoodWinked
Member
special interest groups have always been about getting more than equal rights, while they make the argument that they simply want equal rights.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Serious male issues are more in line with putting a shotgun to their head and blowing their brains all over the walls.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
That's a big problem though.
From a societal perspective, it makes sense to make a father pay for the child even if he did sign a contract like this and took pretty much every sensible step possible to ensure that he did not impregnate her, because in the end it's better if he pays instead of society as a whole paying for him.
For what?
The ability to not end up responsible for a child that is yours?
I'm sorry, but I can't take that position seriously. It's only hurtful to the child, and is pushing towards creating a society with even more impoverished single mothers and disadvantaged, father-less children. The resulting negatives way outweigh any potential equality you're attempting to justify.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
lmao @ the title and banner of this site.
TUROK
Member
Definitely seems that way.
The most unbiased of sources.
Is it okay, if in a discussion on GAF I tell a specific individual what a *insert any pejorative, sexist, racist, or otherwise malicious comment* they are, but put it in brackets and say "I almost wrote that"?
I'm just wondering if this is okay.
Huh, he actually didn't, missed the image part. Better stop posting too late at night.
Devolution
Member
Seriously LOLing that this is the first post in this thread.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...ing/myths-of-the-manosphere-lying-about-women
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform.../browse-all-issues/2012/spring/a-war-on-women
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...wse-all-issues/2012/spring/misogyny-the-sites
ColonelColon
Member
There are plenty of people stepping up to bat for women's issues. There isn't a lack of support for feminism.
The vast majority of men in America are not rich men. Privileged, affluent men are an infinitesimally small percentage of the male population. They are the outliers.
Did you get butthurt over a girl dumping you or something? Why do you think feminists are teh evil womyn that want to destroy mens lives?
Since when are the mentioned issues not 'serious'? I'm not in any way being sarcastic there.
People are too often being discriminated against and/or (both verbally and fysically) violated for being seen as 'too feminine'. Which in many cases has lots of crossovers with gay- and transissues as well, but not necessarily. Sexism through patriarchy has many faces.
You know what? I think I agree. While on a personal level I think it's unfair to force a father to pay up in every circumstance, it's probably better for society as a whole to do so. But hey, this is why we have discussions like this.
- Status