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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
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dralla said:
It can help if you haven't built your rep with them, with the Octocamo uniform. The rebels will think you're an enemy and attack. Also if you've killed some rebels with your regular outfit, you can change outfits and fool them after that.
Two areas in particular make good use of the disguise. It helped me on my second playthrough.
Gorechylde
Member
Aeonin said:
Act 3 spoiler
The "Hat and Overcoat" you keep seing is the little scout tri-pod hand thingys that show up at the church after the scene with EVA. They were tailing you.
dermannmitdemcolt
Member
Solo said:
Nah, it's still my favorite Act of the game. Awesome location and music and a nice change of pace, which was needed after the first two Acts. Add to that the mind blowing Ending and you have pure entertainment.
This segment of the game had very fresh and unique feel to it. Very atmospheric. Loved it.
Gorechylde
Member
Aeonin said:
Yeah. It kinda ticked me off. I wasted about 30mins trying to avoid it whenever I would see it and I got spotted by choppers at least 2 times because of it. Come to think of it, that entire act was a headache because I had no clue what I was doing or supposed to do...For instance....
More Act 3 spoilers
When you enter the final area and the informant goes into that little courtyard and turns into the soldier, I knocked him out thinking it was just another soldier. I must have spent a good 45 minutes running around that little area looking for the informant before I realised the 1st guy I knocked out didn't have a gun on him...little things.
...but the payoff was well worth it.
Act 3 spoilers:
Third Sun reminds me so much of the film "The Third Man" with Orson Wells it isn't funny. Watch it after finishing the tailing sequence in Act 3. You will be astonished. The deliberate naming of the Act title leads me to think Kojima did this on purpose. With his love of American cinema, I wouldn't doubt it.
Gorechylde said:
Haha, thats great. I like the stories people have with him. My first play through really didn't wield anything surprising, it all went smoothly. But this time he got caught by a chopper search light, it caught me off guard for sure. Plus he came up and stabbed me in the face once! Took quite a bit of patience for me to not kill him after that.
fistwell_old
Member
Yeah, we're all entitled to our opinions.Gorechylde said:
The plot-twist after plot-twist after plot-twist ad nauseam of ms2 stroke me as pretty poor story telling, honestly. it did then, it did again earlier this month. But... i don't think i'd call the overall story of the series convoluted. Pretentious overblown mess maybe, but convoluted not really.
Don't get me wrong, i like the games. I enjoyed replaying 2 and 3 getting ready for 4. I've greatly enjoyed the first 3 acts of 4. But yeah... storywise... I guess, at some point, i just stopped caring about
whether the cyborg ninja would triplecross the man whose consciousness is occasionally overtaken by his implanted right arm, and whose actions might or might not be directed by a non-human consciousness which developed in the white house.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
jjasper said:
There is no bigger give away than the last
boss fight
Well, I finished the game last night and here are my thoughts.
The art is phenomenal for the most part. It's incredibly consistent and the lighting, character modelling etc. is superb. What I don't like though, is them continuing what they did on the PS2having a very soft look for the game overall. (on the PS2 it was the flicker filter, here it's the upscaling) Over the course of the game you get used to it, but I would much rather have had a sharp game than this. Having soft edges on everything seems to help people ignore aliasing, even if it doesn't actually reduce it though, so I guess a lot of people will think it was the right choice to make. If I wanted a soft looking game, I would drop down to component cables or play on a fixed-pixel HDTV though. It's easy for the end user to make it look soft, but you can't make a game like that look sharp.
The audio is absolutely superbvery well recorded, and far more unique sounds than I can think of in any other game. I do feel, however, that there was perhaps a bit too much dynamic range though. By that, I mean that I feel that the volume level required to hear the quiet bits made the loud stuff too loud. I love the lack of audio artefacts for the most part though, they did a fantastic job making use of the Blu-Ray format.
I do not think that MGS4 is a technical marvel, however. The framerate was wildly inconsistent for most of the game with it jumping up to 60fps for brief moments, and very often dropping below 30fps to 15/20. It's not always doing a lot when the framedrops occur eithersometimes you can be in a crawlspace looking around with night vision on (where the game most often jumps to 60fps) and it will suddenly dip to 15/20fps for no apparent reason.
The first half of Act 2 was almost constantly below 30fps for me, bordering on unplayable at times. There are one or two sections in the game where it is always 60fps, and those parts are amazing. I really feel that Konami should have capped the regular gameplay sections to 30fps, and most of the cutscenes as well. For the one or two cutscenes that are mostly 60fps though, they could have uncapped it there if they wanted to, but I would much rather it was just locked to one upper cap.
As good as the game looks (which is mostly for artistic reasons rather than tech) I really feel that they should have either cut back, or spent more time optimising the engine to get a smooth framerate. There is none of the wow here that you got from playing MGS2 for the first time. Yes, it looks nice, but at the time MGS2 not only blew away the competition in graphics, it was also hitting 60fps most of the time. (in gameplay at least) I really expected more from them.
I'll spoiler tag this even though it's minor.
I really don't think they could have got it more wrong. If you are going to have an install at all, install all the data you need at the beginning of the game. The current system is significantly worse than having to sit through a 15-20 minute initial install would have been. And on top of that, it doesn't even seem to help that much. The game is constantly loading whether it's gameplay or cutscenes. There are parts in the game where it ends up hitting a load screen every two or three minutes! I could well be wrong here I need to go back and check, but I don't remember having loading screens in the middle of MGS3's cutscenes for example, and the regular loads were quicker, and much better hidden than they are here.
Hmm, where to begin? I suppose I should start by saying that I am surprised that people feel the gameplay is revolutionary. It really doesn't feel like it has evolved much at all from previous MGS titles. Yes, the controls may be more intuitive and it's more like a typical third person game now, but the actual gameplay mechanics themselves are largely unchanged.
I've actually found the controls to be more frustrating than other MGS games in places due to the new control scheme. While I know their intention was to simplify things, in some ways they have been made more restricting. You can't peek up over objects any more, which is something I used all the time in the other games, particularly MGS3. You now have to tap X to stand up which is slower and makes you more likely to be seen.
I've complained about it before, but I find it very annoying that you cannot adjust the zoom on your weapons until you are in the scope view, nor can you adjust whether the camera is going to be on your left/right in third person. I'll have to check it, but I'm not sure if you can switch between first/third person until you're holding L1 either.
I really wish the game would save your first/third person preference on a per-weapon basis rather than a global setting. There were quite a few times where I would be in combat, switch to another weapon and then take a few hits while changing to the other camera and sorting my aim/side/zoom level. With most of my weapons that have a laser sight, I preferred to use third person, but most of the guns with a scope worked better in first, and others were exceptions to the rule. Eg I preferred to use my M4 with laser sight & scope in third person most of the time but there were occasions where it was better to use the scope.
I've complained about this already, but the aiming in general wasn't that great either. I was used to it by the end of the game, but it seems that the sensitivity just increased the acceleration rather than the actual speed, which meant I could only go to 6 or so and still aim exactly where I wanted to quickly and reliably, even though that is far slower than I like my camera to move in a game normally I'm up at 8-10 in most shooters.
And while I know people have said that the game is supposed to let you play it how you like, I don't get that impression. To me, it feels more like it isn't sure what it wants to be. I'm not really going into specifics here, but I'll tag this just to be safe:
I would like to say that I am a fan of the Metal Gear Solid series, though it was only recently that I went through 1/3 when I got the essential collection. I'm not going to go too in-depth here, as I don't feel that I'm going to do a good enough job explaining what I mean.
I have enjoyed the story throughout the series so far, even though it is a bit pretentious and tends to go into too much detail over parts that are not all that important. Playing through MGS2 recently, I didn't really have any trouble understanding the story, or what was going on. I find it surprising that people find it so confusing. It left some questions unanswered, but that was intentional.
I don't really like the flashbacks that they implemented in the game. I really felt that having to mash on X to see a couple of screenshots from the older games, and getting ranked on how many you see really interrupted the flow of the cutscenes. Having three cameras for the briefings and being able to move Mk.II around to collect items really detracted from them as well.
I think it is absolutely laughable that some people have said that this is the most mature story in a video game. On one hand, yes, it might have people thinking about issues they hadn't before like PMCs, but on the other it is full of low-brow humour such as
Other aspects of the game feel like they were put in there for teenage boys, such as
Best videogame ever? I don't even think it was the best in the series I thought MGS3 was a better experience. It's an extremely highly polished game, with impressive cutscenes, and they have improved upon the gameplay mechanics somewhatbut it's hardly a revolutionary title. I think I'd probably give it an 8/10. Yes, there is some incredible production value there, but I'm not rating the game on how much money was spent making it.
███ Firstly, I'll get the tech stuff out of the way
The art is phenomenal for the most part. It's incredibly consistent and the lighting, character modelling etc. is superb. What I don't like though, is them continuing what they did on the PS2having a very soft look for the game overall. (on the PS2 it was the flicker filter, here it's the upscaling) Over the course of the game you get used to it, but I would much rather have had a sharp game than this. Having soft edges on everything seems to help people ignore aliasing, even if it doesn't actually reduce it though, so I guess a lot of people will think it was the right choice to make. If I wanted a soft looking game, I would drop down to component cables or play on a fixed-pixel HDTV though. It's easy for the end user to make it look soft, but you can't make a game like that look sharp.
The audio is absolutely superbvery well recorded, and far more unique sounds than I can think of in any other game. I do feel, however, that there was perhaps a bit too much dynamic range though. By that, I mean that I feel that the volume level required to hear the quiet bits made the loud stuff too loud. I love the lack of audio artefacts for the most part though, they did a fantastic job making use of the Blu-Ray format.
I do not think that MGS4 is a technical marvel, however. The framerate was wildly inconsistent for most of the game with it jumping up to 60fps for brief moments, and very often dropping below 30fps to 15/20. It's not always doing a lot when the framedrops occur eithersometimes you can be in a crawlspace looking around with night vision on (where the game most often jumps to 60fps) and it will suddenly dip to 15/20fps for no apparent reason.
The first half of Act 2 was almost constantly below 30fps for me, bordering on unplayable at times. There are one or two sections in the game where it is always 60fps, and those parts are amazing. I really feel that Konami should have capped the regular gameplay sections to 30fps, and most of the cutscenes as well. For the one or two cutscenes that are mostly 60fps though, they could have uncapped it there if they wanted to, but I would much rather it was just locked to one upper cap.
As good as the game looks (which is mostly for artistic reasons rather than tech) I really feel that they should have either cut back, or spent more time optimising the engine to get a smooth framerate. There is none of the wow here that you got from playing MGS2 for the first time. Yes, it looks nice, but at the time MGS2 not only blew away the competition in graphics, it was also hitting 60fps most of the time. (in gameplay at least) I really expected more from them.
I'll spoiler tag this even though it's minor.
I find it incredibly ironic that they make a joke in Act 4 about having to change over to the second disc when there are five installs (six if you count MGO) each of which actually take longer than changing to another disc would. While it is technically on a single disc, it may as well be on five, as you have to install it again for each act you play.
███ Now onto the gameplay
Hmm, where to begin? I suppose I should start by saying that I am surprised that people feel the gameplay is revolutionary. It really doesn't feel like it has evolved much at all from previous MGS titles. Yes, the controls may be more intuitive and it's more like a typical third person game now, but the actual gameplay mechanics themselves are largely unchanged.
I've actually found the controls to be more frustrating than other MGS games in places due to the new control scheme. While I know their intention was to simplify things, in some ways they have been made more restricting. You can't peek up over objects any more, which is something I used all the time in the other games, particularly MGS3. You now have to tap X to stand up which is slower and makes you more likely to be seen.
I've complained about it before, but I find it very annoying that you cannot adjust the zoom on your weapons until you are in the scope view, nor can you adjust whether the camera is going to be on your left/right in third person. I'll have to check it, but I'm not sure if you can switch between first/third person until you're holding L1 either.
I really wish the game would save your first/third person preference on a per-weapon basis rather than a global setting. There were quite a few times where I would be in combat, switch to another weapon and then take a few hits while changing to the other camera and sorting my aim/side/zoom level. With most of my weapons that have a laser sight, I preferred to use third person, but most of the guns with a scope worked better in first, and others were exceptions to the rule. Eg I preferred to use my M4 with laser sight & scope in third person most of the time but there were occasions where it was better to use the scope.
I've complained about this already, but the aiming in general wasn't that great either. I was used to it by the end of the game, but it seems that the sensitivity just increased the acceleration rather than the actual speed, which meant I could only go to 6 or so and still aim exactly where I wanted to quickly and reliably, even though that is far slower than I like my camera to move in a game normally I'm up at 8-10 in most shooters.
And while I know people have said that the game is supposed to let you play it how you like, I don't get that impression. To me, it feels more like it isn't sure what it wants to be. I'm not really going into specifics here, but I'll tag this just to be safe:
At the beginning of the game, it feels like it is encouraging your to fight alongside the resistance against the PMCs they'll shoot at you if you don't, and cheer you on when you help out etc.
Further on, you hit parts which look exactly the same, but they are filled with endlessly respawning PMCs/Militia troops on either side. It may even appear that you're helping at first, but you soon realise that it is pointless, and that for that part of the game you're actually supposed to just sneak/run past it all, ignoring the combat.
And then there are some forced stealth sections. The entire first half of Act 3 was an exercise in tedium. It felt incredibly dated from a gameplay perspective there was no challenge whatsoever on Solid Normal, it was just follow a guy from point A to B for 10-20 minutes, or however long it took. Absolutely terrible. And this is from someone who has gone through MGS2/3 playing them mostly as stealth games.
Further on, you hit parts which look exactly the same, but they are filled with endlessly respawning PMCs/Militia troops on either side. It may even appear that you're helping at first, but you soon realise that it is pointless, and that for that part of the game you're actually supposed to just sneak/run past it all, ignoring the combat.
And then there are some forced stealth sections. The entire first half of Act 3 was an exercise in tedium. It felt incredibly dated from a gameplay perspective there was no challenge whatsoever on Solid Normal, it was just follow a guy from point A to B for 10-20 minutes, or however long it took. Absolutely terrible. And this is from someone who has gone through MGS2/3 playing them mostly as stealth games.
███ And that brings me to the story
I would like to say that I am a fan of the Metal Gear Solid series, though it was only recently that I went through 1/3 when I got the essential collection. I'm not going to go too in-depth here, as I don't feel that I'm going to do a good enough job explaining what I mean.
I have enjoyed the story throughout the series so far, even though it is a bit pretentious and tends to go into too much detail over parts that are not all that important. Playing through MGS2 recently, I didn't really have any trouble understanding the story, or what was going on. I find it surprising that people find it so confusing. It left some questions unanswered, but that was intentional.
I don't really like the flashbacks that they implemented in the game. I really felt that having to mash on X to see a couple of screenshots from the older games, and getting ranked on how many you see really interrupted the flow of the cutscenes. Having three cameras for the briefings and being able to move Mk.II around to collect items really detracted from them as well.
I think it is absolutely laughable that some people have said that this is the most mature story in a video game. On one hand, yes, it might have people thinking about issues they hadn't before like PMCs, but on the other it is full of low-brow humour such as
Johnny with his diarrhoea, people belching after drinking a soda and so on.
Other aspects of the game feel like they were put in there for teenage boys, such as
the ridiculous beauty characters not just how they are modelled, but how they act and the camera angles that they use. The inclusion of Playboy magazines that the player can look through, the opportunities to hit L1 and get a better look at the female characters in some cutscenes, and the beyond ridiculous ability to shake Rose's breasts by shaking the controller. A quick glance through the screenshots topic shows just how mature the Metal Gear audience really is.
When the game tries to cover serious issues such as how the beauties were treated and what caused them to be like that, it just isn't delivered well at all and has no emotional impact whatsoever.
The only really serious part of the game, for me, was when you have Snake going through the microwave corridor at the end of the game. The way that it was handled with the amount of damage being done, how quickly your health bar seems to be draining, how the game has you really hammer on the triangle button to get to the end was incredible. As my health drained to nearly zero I was actually thinking to myself wow, I can't believe they're actually going to do it he's not going to make it. Even after your health bar just sticks at a notch above zero, you're left thinking that it has to be the end for Snake because of just how he looks, and how hard they make you hammer on triangle.
When you do finally get there, it almost seems like Snake isn't needed Mk.III does pretty much all of the work anyway, Snake just takes out a couple of those enemies.
And then after having his insides cooked he ends up on top of the ship, gets an injection, and suddenly he's all better again! Time for a round of Metal Gear Tekken to finish the game off! So much for being mature. Now obviously this is not a game that is based on reality, but that part just broke any kind of suspension of disbelief. It's no longer a game set in the future trying to have a mature storyline (emphasis on trying) it's a cartoon, a comic book. It just screamed out you are playing a video game, everything is going to be fine.
When you do finally get there, it almost seems like Snake isn't needed Mk.III does pretty much all of the work anyway, Snake just takes out a couple of those enemies.
And then after having his insides cooked he ends up on top of the ship, gets an injection, and suddenly he's all better again! Time for a round of Metal Gear Tekken to finish the game off! So much for being mature. Now obviously this is not a game that is based on reality, but that part just broke any kind of suspension of disbelief. It's no longer a game set in the future trying to have a mature storyline (emphasis on trying) it's a cartoon, a comic book. It just screamed out you are playing a video game, everything is going to be fine.
And don't get me started on the Epilogue. The entire wedding scene was laughable, and just as they are trying to make it emotional with Otacon talking about Snake
LOL, Don't worry kids, he's fine!
Oh, and you know Big Boss? Yeah, he's fine too it was really Solidus that we killed earlier. Oh, but he's going to die now anyway! lolololol Oh yeah, and the guy behind it all, founder of the patriots? Yeah, it was Major Zero from MGS3you know, that seemingly nice guy helping you through it all, the one that liked James Bond? Yeah it was him, he was the bad guy. *twist* And now he's dead! Oh, and here's a lot of essentially meaningless exposition. Enjoy!
Oh, and you know Big Boss? Yeah, he's fine too it was really Solidus that we killed earlier. Oh, but he's going to die now anyway! lolololol Oh yeah, and the guy behind it all, founder of the patriots? Yeah, it was Major Zero from MGS3you know, that seemingly nice guy helping you through it all, the one that liked James Bond? Yeah it was him, he was the bad guy. *twist* And now he's dead! Oh, and here's a lot of essentially meaningless exposition. Enjoy!
Best videogame ever? I don't even think it was the best in the series I thought MGS3 was a better experience. It's an extremely highly polished game, with impressive cutscenes, and they have improved upon the gameplay mechanics somewhatbut it's hardly a revolutionary title. I think I'd probably give it an 8/10. Yes, there is some incredible production value there, but I'm not rating the game on how much money was spent making it.
Gorechylde
Member
jjasper said:
***HUGE***Act 5 spoilers. Do NOT read until you beat the game.
In the boss fight yes, you do end up fighting Ocelot as the flashback eludes to. Furthermore, Big boss goes on to say that Ocelot was faking it the whole time in order to fool the Patriot's AI's into thinking he was Liquid. Liquid Ocelot put on a convincing show of wanting to gain sole control of the SOP system, but his real intention was to have Solid Snake destroy the entire network from the start. That's why he and Naomi manipulated him so much and why Liquid Ocelot never killed him. That's also why Naomi faked joining Snake and Otacon's team. She really went over there to hand-off her virus to Otacon, but found Sunny to be the more appropriate choice with her programming skills. Raiden delivering Sunny's message of "I cooked them right" signaled to Naomi that Sunny had finished the virus and Naomi could finally die. Mind-fuck right?
I'm not sure if this is off-topic or not. Either way, these are the items you can get from the Metal Gear Solid news stories in Mainichi Issyo. The Metal Gear x Toro image is from the Yoji Shinkawa interview, story #2. The Metal Gear mkII, Hideo autograph and duck timer are from Hideo's interview, story #3.
Crazymoogle
Member
Tiktaalik said:
Huh?
Don't recall you not being allowed to use Solideye...Otacon warns about the noise but it seems pretty easy to use throughout. Between that and the map, didn't have any problem at all following the trail. Hell, I typically took the wrong paths on purpose to weed out guards.
Not sure what's up with the smoke grenades. It seems they work well to cloud the enemy FOV but walking into it is a no-no.
Also regarding the Gekko
I'm pretty sure I fired a ground shot once to clip it in the leg, but yeah, you're basically not supposed to be killing those ones so early. In any case, the best way to get in trouble in the game is to rush around.
dermannmitdemcolt
Member
andrewfee said:
You people are insane. Putting the most generic and conservative game of the series about this? Insanity.
Other than Crying Wolf getting these statues is going to be a pain in the arse, Laughing Octopus took long enough, and now i'm afraid of raging Raven. 
One thing that's got me confused how the heck do you get Crying Mantis' statue?
And for future reference where is the statue? Don't want to be caught cold like I was with Laughing Octopus.
One thing that's got me confused how the heck do you get Crying Mantis' statue?
I can't exactly tranq her to death right?
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Hot dam andrew. HOT DAM. And i love some of the points you made.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Steroyd said:Other than Crying Wolf getting these statues is going to be a pain in the arse, Laughing Octopus took long enough, and now i'm afraid of raging Raven.
One thing that's got me confused how the heck do you get Crying Mantis' statue?And for future reference where is the statue? Don't want to be caught cold like I was with Laughing Octopus.I can't exactly tranq her to death right?
I believe you tranq the dolls.
Also, could i play thi sgame on easy to get the killing emblems and tranq the bosses then? i dont want to have to tranq them while trying to get a no health item run.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Use the Sniper, it deals like 5x more than the regular tranq. gun. I could easily deal of every beast that way.Steroyd said:Other than Crying Wolf getting these statues is going to be a pain in the arse, Laughing Octopus took long enough, and now i'm afraid of raging Raven.
One thing that's got me confused how the heck do you get Crying Mantis' statue?And for future reference where is the statue? Don't want to be caught cold like I was with Laughing Octopus.I can't exactly tranq her to death right?
There is only one way you can beat Screaming Mantis and that's by using Mantis on him. He's a 100% stamina kill (even though his health goes down with it). The doll is on the most northern door in the room.
VindicatorZ
Member
You know I agree with almost everything you said, but I give the game a 9 or 9.5 just for the graphics and presentation and depth of gameplay alone. A game of this quality cannot be rated an 8 IMO, even tho I agree with everything you said. Some of the things in this game are ridiculous.
So I just got this game, along with a PS3. HD Gaming really is nice
But, I seem to be having difficulty with MGS4, and I'm not sure if it's because I'm somehow playing improperly, or maybe (most likely) I just suck. The most annoying thing right now is the camera--was it always like this? Is there anyway to do a 3rd-person perspective fixed camera angle or something? Right now, it seems that I have to constantly babysit the camera with the right analog stick, and it often gets me killed (again, probably me sucking). Any help on what to do, or how to use/fix the camera would be much appreciated, thanks!
But, I seem to be having difficulty with MGS4, and I'm not sure if it's because I'm somehow playing improperly, or maybe (most likely) I just suck. The most annoying thing right now is the camera--was it always like this? Is there anyway to do a 3rd-person perspective fixed camera angle or something? Right now, it seems that I have to constantly babysit the camera with the right analog stick, and it often gets me killed (again, probably me sucking). Any help on what to do, or how to use/fix the camera would be much appreciated, thanks!
Crazymoogle
Member
tha_con said:
GW: George Washington. I think all of the AIs are named after presidents.
Gamer @ Heart said:
Many of his points came across like he's never played a MGS title before. We know he has, but the maturity point he raised? Kojima and co have always injected a bit of crude/out of place humor into their titles, especially this series.
A single instance of potty humor used at a time to even out some of the darker themes doesn't exactly cancel out the core fundamentals of the main story.
Classic_Gs
Member
I agree, MGS3 is the weakest of the main series.dermannmitdemcolt said:
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