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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie

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Â

∀ Narayan

Member
Hesemonni said:
So guys,

Am I completely screwed for not having played MGS3? Sold my PS2 way back and never rebought it in Slim form as I meant to do.

Can't really buy PS2 just for MGS3 either because there can be only so many gaming devices in my living room. So thank you Sony for dropping BC.
Click to expand...
It's the best Metal Gear Solid game ever made.

Yeah, I'd say you screwed yourself well.
 
N

Nemo

Will Eat Your Children
Hesemonni said:
So guys,

Am I completely screwed for not having played MGS3? Sold my PS2 way back and never rebought it in Slim form as I meant to do.

Can't really buy PS2 just for MGS3 either because there can be only so many gaming devices in my living room. So thank you Sony for dropping BC.
Click to expand...
I'd really recommend you play MGS3 first. But if you *absolutely* can't. Try to watch some gameplay to get a feel of the game and watch the cutscenes. I'm sure you can get all the cut scenes on youtube or another site.

If you don't have time watch this. Also has Portable Ops in case you didn't do that either.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/34700.html
 
C

Cartman86

Banned
Ether_Snake said:
Yeah The Boss part in MGS3 felt like where I thought MGS4 would go. It was very down to earth, yeah very powerful. I thought it would be like that for MGS4. Even with the Beauty and the Beast I was cool with it, they looked really deranged and brutal, but in the game itself it was J-Porn fetish with no substance.
Click to expand...

For me the end made up for anything negative. Big Boss coming back to the spot that made me cry in MGS3. His speach (though long) at times made me tear up again. I thought it was perfect how it all came back around.
 
S

Shalashaska

Member
pel1300 said:
MGS4 sucked because:

1. no new villains....just rehash.

2. No MGS main theme.....horrible.
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1. Well it was a sequel to MGS 2 and the concluding chapter in the MGS saga, they can't really make a whole new bunch of villains.
2. I would've liked it but they had copyright issues.
 
D

Darkpen

Banned
Actually, in an interview with Norihiko Hibino, he said that they could've gotten away with using the theme because they really weren't infringing on anything at all. Music is music. But Konami was too pussy to play with fire, and went and made that crappy alternative. I believe the interview was in one of the last issues of EGM, or it might be on 1up.com.

Also, :lol @ people still arguing about "realism" in the MGS series. I mean, seriously guys, its as hollywood and cartoony as anything will ever get. Quit viewing the past games in rose-tinted glasses. Seriously.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
pel1300 said:
MGS4 sucked because:

1. no new villains....just rehash.
Click to expand...

It's like Star Wars or Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter. Or any other work of fiction that pertains to good vs. evil. The main villains are established usually early on; usually so the protagonists and antagonists get development together which ultimately strengthens the conflict. Also, MGS4 had the addition of the Beauty and the Beast squad which were new.
 
TGO

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I want trophies!
I ain't playing it again until they are, but it's killing me not to :lol
 
Â

∀ Narayan

Member
brandonh83 said:
Also, MGS4 had the addition of the Beauty and the Beast squad which were new.
Click to expand...
New, but sparsely developed. The B&B crew pales in comparison to the series' previous bosses.

The lack of the traditional Metal Gear Solid theme irked me as well. Who says there were copyright issues? From what I heard, Hideo Kojima wanted to distance the series from that theme because it sounded similar to a piece by Georgy Sviridov. Fuck that, I say. It's probably a complete coincidence that it even sounded similar.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
U K Narayan said:
New, but sparsely developed. The B&B crew pales in comparison to the series' previous bosses.
Click to expand...

I thought the most "interesting" set of bosses were in MGS1. Aside from that I can't agree too much, I liked B&B way more than the Cobra Unit of MGS3.

But to me, more importantly, I thought they were cooler and made for better boss battles (with the exception of The End, obviously).
 
Â

∀ Narayan

Member
brandonh83 said:
I thought the most "interesting" set of bosses were in MGS1. Aside from that I can't agree too much, I liked B&B way more than the Cobra Unit of MGS3.

But to me, more importantly, I thought they were cooler and made for better boss battles (with the exception of The End, obviously).
Click to expand...
I obviously disagree. Different strokes for different folks.
 
K

Keikoku

Banned
U K Narayan said:
New, but sparsely developed. The B&B crew pales in comparison to the series' previous bosses.

The lack of the traditional Metal Gear Solid theme irked me as well. Who says there were copyright issues? From what I heard, Hideo Kojima wanted to distance the series from that theme because it sounded similar to a piece by Georgy Sviridov. Fuck that, I say. It's probably a complete coincidence that it even sounded similar.
Click to expand...

Not really :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTcNUoxCmHI
 
T

thaOwner

Member
MNC said:
Woah, this thread got cleaned up it seems. Ahem!

I'm going to start a second playthrough soon :D I hardly ever do that with a game.
Click to expand...
I got so close to finishing it but then gave up. I am waiting for that trophy
patch. (hope we getting one at all)
 
S

Shalashaska

Member
U K Narayan said:
The lack of the traditional Metal Gear Solid theme irked me as well. Who says there were copyright issues? From what I heard, Hideo Kojima wanted to distance the series from that theme because it sounded similar to a piece by Georgy Sviridov. Fuck that, I say. It's probably a complete coincidence that it even sounded similar.
Click to expand...
Me because I'm dumb.

Here's the reason why:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21513
In an interview with print magazine Electronic Gaming Monthly, longtime series composer Norihiko Hibino explains why the familiar tune was left out of series creator Hideo Kojima's grand finale for Solid Snake:

"The truth is, Konami [had legal problems with] Russian composers who said we stole their music," Hibino told EGM.
...
Either way, Hibino told EGM that, to avoid legal issues, Konami decided not to use the familiar theme in Metal Gear Solid 4:

"They didn't [steal their music], actually. But Konami was too sensitive about the situation and just decided not to use that music in the game," he said.
Click to expand...
 
D

Docpan

Member
My question is, how is it NOT stealing?

It's not "somewhat" similar, the main hook is basically EXACTLY the same. Is it really that hard to accept that this TAPPY fellow (person who composed the MGS theme in 1998) plagiarized from this obscure Russian composition in hopes he would never be discovered?

This is no mere coincidence.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Docpan said:
My question is, how is it NOT stealing?

It's not "somewhat" similar, the main hook is basically EXACTLY the same. Is it really that hard to accept that this TAPPY fellow (person who composed the MGS theme in 1998) plagiarized from this obscure Russian composition in hopes he would never be discovered?

This is no mere coincidence.
Click to expand...
They're not the same... they're dissimilar enough that I find it incredibly hard to believe that one would be based on the other since there are so many differences. They're different pieces with one or two melodies which sound similar (we're talking four notes here...with most other melodies that are nothing alike).

The effect is so different that it's impossible for this to be plagiarism. Why rip it off only to change most of the mood entirely?
 
A

Augemitbutter

Member
Pitch Black Flint said:
Shiiit. Are you kidding? She's hot as hell. Looks like someone I know actually...
Click to expand...

shes a toned down belucci, thats a sacrilege on its own. also she changed so much from her original concept, its hard to recognise her as the old naomi. the most disappointing character for me in MGS4.
 
Hesemonni

Hesemonni

Banned
U K Narayan said:
It's the best Metal Gear Solid game ever made.

Yeah, I'd say you screwed yourself well.
Click to expand...
Teetris said:
I'd really recommend you play MGS3 first. But if you *absolutely* can't. Try to watch some gameplay to get a feel of the game and watch the cutscenes. I'm sure you can get all the cut scenes on youtube or another site.
Click to expand...
Now look WHAT you guys made me do!

...And now off to search for Subsistence...
 
Hesemonni

Hesemonni

Banned
Q-bert said:
Maybe not what you're looking for, but I just picked up the Essential Collection for $28.

http://http://www.amazon.com/Metal-Gear-Solid-Collection-Playstation-2/dp/B001383L36
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Thanks for the reminder. Didn't even remember there was a Essential Collection. Too bad I live in PAL-landia and after shipping and import tax it's ~$90. Then again, it might up being cheaper than getting Subsistence from somewhere else. So I'll keep this in mind and consider Swap magic + Essential if can't find 'em elsewhere.
 
G

Graphics Horse

Member
BocoDragon said:
They're not the same... they're dissimilar enough that I find it incredibly hard to believe that one would be based on the other since there are so many differences. They're different pieces with one or two melodies which sound similar (we're talking four notes here...with most other melodies that are nothing alike).
Click to expand...

four notes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXhCEci8dXY

there's at least 5 seperate parts to this which sound very similar to the mgs1 theme.
 
M

Mr.Squirrel

Tom
TGO said:
I want trophies!
I ain't playing it again until they are, but it's killing me not to :lol
Click to expand...

tell me about it. I'm dying for a platinum in mgs. I'm guessing im gonna have to buy mgs 4: sustinence to get trophies for it lol
 
J

jett

D-Member
If that Tappy douche didn't copy the russian piece then it's one HELL of a coincidence.

Anyway...MGS4 not having the classic theme is the least of its problems.
 
C

Ceb

Member
jett said:
If that Tappy douche didn't copy the russian piece then it's one HELL of a coincidence.

Anyway...MGS4 not having the classic theme is the least of its problems.
Click to expand...

The "douche" Tappy Iwase is a high-profile jazz drummer. I doubt he just outright copied a piece of Russian classical music.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Ceb said:
The "douche" Tappy Iwase is a high-profile jazz drummer. I doubt he just outright copied a piece of Russian classical music.
Click to expand...

To my ears it's almost impossible that Tappy hadn't heard the Sviridov piece prior to composing the MGS theme. It's just ridiculous when the horn section comes up. It's not just one small section that's similiar, it's the whole freaking thing.
 
N

nelsonroyale

Member
U K Narayan said:
New, but sparsely developed. The B&B crew pales in comparison to the series' previous bosses.

The lack of the traditional Metal Gear Solid theme irked me as well. Who says there were copyright issues? From what I heard, Hideo Kojima wanted to distance the series from that theme because it sounded similar to a piece by Georgy Sviridov. Fuck that, I say. It's probably a complete coincidence that it even sounded similar.
Click to expand...

I actually liked the concept of the beauty and the beast unit, but think their experience should have been further drawn out from their own performances, rather than narrated by drebin..there were a bit too many proxies in the story...

Having said that I really liked their designs... Regardless, the final battle in MGS4 was by far the most epic battle I've played in the series, even if it very straightforward...the rex fight was also incredible.

Ive played all the mgs games, and always been somewhat of a fan, but this is easily my favourite... I felt the central narrative was very strong, even I thought alot of the side plots were weak and many of the side characters got far too much screen time...there should have been even more focus on snake... Incidentally, I always much preferred snake to BB, even if they are in many ways pretty much the same character
 
?

____

Member
My only gripe with the BatB corps is the fact that they had ZERO relationship or any contact with Liquid.

Or at least that's how I remember it.
 
S

Shalashaska

Member
____ said:
My only gripe with the BatB corps is the fact that they had ZERO relationship or any contact with Liquid.

Or at least that's how I remember it.
Click to expand...
My gripe was that they really weren't that memorable as opposed to the previous games where you would have an awesome boss battle. The Mantis one in this one was probably that one that was most unique and fun.
 
D

Docpan

Member
Ceb said:
The "douche" Tappy Iwase is a high-profile jazz drummer. I doubt he just outright copied a piece of Russian classical music.
Click to expand...

When there's clear evidence that a mere 'coincidence' is an impossibility? Perhaps you need to take off the fanboy earmuffs and give it a good listen.
 
?

____

Member
Shalashaska said:
My gripe was that they really weren't that memorable as opposed to the previous games where you would have an awesome boss battle. The Mantis one in this one was probably that one that was most unique and fun.
Click to expand...

Well yea, that too. I liked the feel of these bosses...like the vibe they gave off, but their lack of a relationship with Liquid made them seem disconnected to the story and just thrown in there. The Drebin narration didn't help that. They felt like side-missions.

In other MGS games...you felt like you were plowing through bosses only getting closer and closer to THEIR boss. In MGS4, they had not even ONE conversation, scene, chat or anything with Liquid. Seemed kind of weird.
 
S

Shalashaska

Member
____ said:
Well yea, that too. I liked the feel of these bosses...like the vibe they gave off, but their lack of a relationship with Liquid made them seem disconnected to the story and just thrown in there. The Drebin narration didn't help that. They felt like side-missions.

In other MGS games...you felt like you were plowing through bosses only getting closer and closer to THEIR boss. In MGS4, they had not even ONE conversation, scene, chat or anything with Liquid. Seemed kind of weird.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree with that. There really wasn't a whole lot of attachment there.
 
F

Firestorm

Member
On Act 2 and fuck are these graphics amazing. Better than anything I saw in GoW or GoW2. Maybe because the cuts aren't so damn fast and I can actually take in the sights. Gorgeous and all I have is a budget LCD from 2006.
 
C

Cartman86

Banned
Firestorm said:
On Act 2 and fuck are these graphics amazing. Better than anything I saw in GoW or GoW2. Maybe because the cuts aren't so damn fast and I can actually take in the sights. Gorgeous and all I have is a budget LCD from 2006.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think for me what makes MGS as a whole so great in the graphics department is how polished it is. In Gears cutscenes have texture pop-in, weird edits, and strange audio balance issues. Mass Effect had similar issues that annoyed me so much.
 
M

Miburou

Member
It's amusing to me how I got pounced on for saying Act 3 was too long, and Act 5's beginning too hard compared to the rest of the game, and yet now most of the replies seem to be negative.

Anyway, for anyone disappointed, too bad. I had an amazing time with the game, and just watching my bro getting BB emblem and noticing all the tiny details was breathtaking. And I'm totally in love with MGO (bought both expansions), and the constant additions Konami is giving it.
 
S

Shalashaska

Member
Cartman86 said:
Yeah I think for me what makes MGS as a whole so great in the graphics department is how polished it is. In Gears cutscenes have texture pop-in, weird edits, and strange audio balance issues. Mass Effect had similar issues that annoyed me so much.
Click to expand...
One think I don't think MGS 4 has received a lot of credit for is just how well technically the game is. There's been 0 patches for the game because it hasn't needed one. I've yet to come across any major bug in all of my playthroughs. And I haven't seen people complain about one either. Pretty amazing for a game of this scope.
 
A

autobzooty

Member
Miburou said:
And I'm totally in love with MGO (bought both expansions), and the constant additions Konami is giving it.
Click to expand...

I still haven't played MGO. It seems fundamentally flawed to me for a couple reasons: Firstly, who get's to be Snake?! :lol And secondly, it seems like it'd just turn into a shooter deathmatch and no one would try to be sneaky. The controls are better suited to sneaking than to combat, so it seems like it'd be kinda weird.

Am I wrong?
 
W

web01

Member
autobzooty said:
I still haven't played MGO. It seems fundamentally flawed to me for a couple reasons: Firstly, who get's to be Snake?! :lol And secondly, it seems like it'd just turn into a shooter deathmatch and no one would try to be sneaky. The controls are better suited to sneaking than to combat, so it seems like it'd be kinda weird.

Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Yes you are very wrong.

There are modes for shooting and modes for sneaking.
Even in large TDM matches its possible for players to be sneaky and use knife/cqc only and do very well.
 
A

autobzooty

Member
web01 said:
Yes you are very wrong.

There are modes for shooting and modes for sneaking.
Even in large TDM matches its possible for players to be sneaky and use knife/cqc only and do very well.
Click to expand...

Hm. Maybe I should give it a shot before passing it off then. I don't play many online shooters because I get this sort of "you played one, you played them all" mentality, but if they managed to somehow pull off multiplayer stealth, that'd be quite an accomplishment.

Edit: but seriously, who get's to be Snake...?
 
S

SpokkX

Member
Firestorm said:
On Act 2 and fuck are these graphics amazing. Better than anything I saw in GoW or GoW2. Maybe because the cuts aren't so damn fast and I can actually take in the sights. Gorgeous and all I have is a budget LCD from 2006.
Click to expand...

Act 2 amazing graphics?

I really thought Act 2 looked like MGS3:HD. There are barely any details and where are all the trees? It felt really sparse and last gen imo

Act 3 also looked very simple. It felt like one multiplayer lever from Perfect Dark Zero

Act 1 and Act 4 on the other hand looked really good. Especially Act 1. I would have prefered it if the game only used that setting really :(
 
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