Dictator93
Member
What specs does your gaming PC have? I think the LOD settings and extra effects on PC make the jump quite noticable.
Metal Gear Solid V: TPP PC vs. PS4 vs. XBO DF Face-Off Definitive Edition
- Thread starter DarkLordMalik
- Start date
What specs does your gaming PC have? I think the LOD settings and extra effects on PC make the jump quite noticable.
If we just talk about CPU power, easily.
I'm not part of this discussion but I just wanted to wrap up something from a while ago regarding what you're saying here. I remember this. What you're talking about only happened in a video with a 4GB RAM bottleneck. I pointed out a few things about an updated 8GB video by the same guy. The video didn't have settings set to parity with PS4. I never responded because it was a long time ago but you claimed that since that guy was running with AA, DOF, and MB off with the lowest drop being to 24.9 FPS (not teens as you're stating) that this was proof of the 750 TI not performing anywhere near as well as the PS4. I think you glossed over my last post in that thread where I pointed out that the Nvidia DOF that guy disabled is just something specific to the PC version's cutscenes. AA has a negligible hit to performance in Dying Light. MB also has a negligible performance impact in Dying Light and people turn it off simply out of preference. The same guy claims (in all of his videos actually) he gets 5 more FPS when not recording (he uses ShadowPlay) and has HBAO+ enabled (not on PS4) and a higher LOD. Both of these have a bigger performance impact than the previous features he disabled (see the nvidia article). Even based on just that I would wager 750 TI, if externally recorded, would be matching or coming close to PS4's (capped) performance. Even if you're still not convinced the game got a February patch that increased performance greatly across the board (from the article):
So just for Dying Light, I would say there is very likely similar performance between the i3/750 TI setup and PS4 there. Obviously someone would have to test but it seems pretty obvious to me. Not entering discussion on any other topics, though. I will say, however, the points about the 750 TI aren't meant to be disingenuous to play down the PS4 (at least on most people's part I would assume). It just illustrates that there aren't any magical optimizations going on with consoles or that they are punching way over their weight class. The PS4 is presumably using a modified 7870 which is better than a 750 TI and despite that it is pulling decent performance in comparison to consoles. That stuff about bad ports goes both ways, too.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
3570K/970/8GB RAM
Dictator93
Member
THe game will look decidedly better IMO. That is a rig that can play at the highest settings with hbao+ @ 1080p: which looks fantastic in comparison to the normal stuff.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
Great, thanks a lot.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Word man Sony outchea taking it easy on these losers playing on XBloss and #PCstaylosin. Bloodborne at 15 fps was a creative decision, feel death even worse after a minute long load time. Keep the grass setting madd low in MGSV cause aint no damn grass in the desert. We like realism, step out with this grass is the sand shit smh.
thelastword
Banned
This is just off the first minute of a 750ti/i3 video
I didn't bother to go further because I'm sure there are many more instances throughout and this is what I was referencing when I said it went into the teens often, it's been a while, but my memory is not that hazy. Also note, that settings from the video where I took that pic is way below the PS4 preset and performance is still way below the PS4.
Now, yes, this is a 4GB machine with a 2GB graphics card, many people have this setup, not till recently I only had 4Gb on my machine, so what's the problem. It's an i3 750ti setup, I did not make that up. That setup's processor is better than the PS4, you've never heard me say the comparison is unfair, so I don't know how we want to have our cake and also eat it.
The other thing to keep in mind is that Dying Light does not have access to 8Gb of Ram/Vram on the PS4, it's much smaller than that, perhaps it is that Sony should give back more for even better stable framerates and improvements in model detail and AF, but as it stands with the memory it has available, it's outclassing the stock 750ti at better settings and performance.
Even then, people want to have their cake and eat it, so no problem....., I also took a look at the 8GB setup and performance is a bit better no doubt, but it still does not outclass the PS4's fluid framerate. The PS4's framerate is a very solid 30, (capped) that's why I wanted it to be unlocked because then you would see how much it outclasses the 750ti setup. Right there in your link of my post on the subject, I had evidence to show of how that setup went down to 23.9fps and when action got heavy it was constantly below 30fps (around the mid 20's in many instances).
Considering all the pics I took of the sporadic dips in battle (from the post you linked) and the fact that Santiago disabled many graphical features which was enabled on the PS4 and yet it dips to 23fps, how can anyone still say it's on par or is performing better. The main reason Santiago disabled these features was to improve performance, you could easily observe more stability in frames when he did so, it's just that the GPU is not powerful enough to keep up with the PS4.
So let's get this straight, i3/750ti setup with 4GB ram with lower settings than PS4 provides a teeny framerate. i3/750ti setup with 8GB with lower settings than PS4 is a sporadic 29 to 23fps whenever there's action on screen. You must also be aware that this is not close to how heavy things get in Dying Light, so if there's a tonne of ooze, alpha, dynamic lights and zombies all in tow, you know that things would fall to the teens in that setup too. It was about to get stingy in that area when he cut off the video at 23.9fps, there are areas much more hectic in the game as you would know.....
Have people really not seen the framerate of DL on PS4, it's a very solid 30fps, with improvements to lod, AF and dynamic lights after release. The only thing this game needed was an unlocked option for PS4.
In any case, here are the videos I'm referencing. I feel I've proven this so many times. 4GB, 8GB.
On the 8GB setup (unlocked), the game is around the mid 30's when not much is going on, wading through a grassy field it will fall to 25fps and in action heavy scenes it gets nasty. The PS4 was around 50-60fps unlocked at calm moments unlike this setup, and a solid 30fps locked in heavy scenes. Yes, there were moments when the PS4 lost it's cap.
Well at least that's a good thing about PC, is that you can continue to gain performance even outside of dev patches, newer drivers from Nvidia AMD can boost a game's performance months or even years after. Look at the boost AMD hardware is receiving now on account of DX12, started off with mantle and there's also vulkan. Software can improve performance, especially for a company like AMD who had decent hardware but their drivers/software was very inefficient, so we'll see more gains there.
Consoles are a bit different, you usually get a patch or two that fixes the most glaring issues, but regardless, "shoutouts to committed devs who ensure that their games are improved massively after launch", like; the Project Cars devs, Dying Light devs, Borderlands devs etc. On the flipside, you have devs who ship and bail, and you have devs who messed up so much, they've delivered a million patches and still have no idea where to start. (Witcher 3 devs).
Apart from that, what we have are remasters, but even that has been tarnished this gen by some awful/woeful releases. Even new releases are getting saints Row like efforts. I think devs should all remember why dedicated console boxes exist in the first place. It's certainly not to throw in as much shovelware on the market as possible to make a quick buck. The days of Nintendo Quality Seal of approval type mindset is now fleeting. There are very few devs you can name.....where you don't even question that their product will be amazing technically....In essence no need to ask (where is the AF), why are these effects missing......very few.....
Buying 8GB vs 4GB memory is like a difference of $20-$30 so I didn't think it would be relevant to talk about the 4GB video (where the game is shown to be severely bottlenecked by RAM). I'm talking about the same two videos you're talking about, too bro. You don't have to keep linking me them. I agree with everything you say except for two things. When you say the PS4 is running on on higher settings than Santiago's 8GB video, that is up for contention because he's running better AO/LOD than PS4 which I mentioned are higher performance hits than the AA/MB he turned off according to the nvidia performance guide. So the "net result" is that Santiago is running the more intensive settings. Better performance is up for contention because that guy is losing FPS from recording and additionally the PC version got a performance boosting patch after the video was made (NV article mentions lowest FPS being improved greatly). Shadowplay hits lower end Nvidia cards hard in general (Santiago mentions ~5 fps drop in all his video description). The game could very well possibly be running with a minimum (or close to it) fps of 30 if one were to lower AO/ LOD, turn on AA/MB, not be recording, and playing with the newest patch (that increases minimum FPS across the board at the same settings). You pointed out that in the 8GB video the lowest FPS drop was 23.9 (I said 24.9 in my last post as a typo) and taking the previous stuff into consideration I think it's very possible for that to be increased to 30. I think it's very possible the PS4 could be performing better uncapped but that's not something you can really prove at this point in time.
I would like you to prove that....DF only started overclocking the 750ti when they realized that the setup could not quite keep up with the PS4 in games.
A core i3/750ti has never really outperformed the PS4, it's just that the first year or so devs just did not maximize the PS4's GPU and instead set limits to the consoles in the dev process, like 30fps in A.I, 30fps in Xenoverse, crappy or no AF and missing some bloom and lighting effects in that game, something the 750ti setup does in it's sleep. The same can be said about a million other ports, RE-R2, the xbo version is better (is the XBO on par or better than the PS4?), the 750 ti setup eats that game up too and the list goes on like; Sleeping dogs, Prototype, Remake, Payday and the list goes on. The 750ti setup can run all these games at 60fps, but yet the PS4 versions of these games are all 30fps with drops in many of these cases, bad AF etc...
Is the 750ti setup better or on par with the PS4? no, these games were just high voltaged. Now, there are some multiplat games that will actually use the PS4's wares where the 750ti setup will buckle in comparison. PS4 had a 20-15fps advantage over the 750ti setup in Project Cars, Batman may not be a good or fair example yet, but PC guys got a patch recently, no? the 750ti setup will not eclipse the PS4 in that game.
Even the crappy Witcher 3 port outdid the 750ti setup, (outside of the swamp) so they had to overclock it to get more stable framerates and I've stills shown where the crappy un-optimized ps4 version pulls ahead in combat and cutscenes due to it's better GPU, go back and check some witcher threads. In Dying Light the 750ti setup drops to the teens when things get hectic with bloomers and oozemen. I've shown all of this over and over, but people just keep repeating the same thing.
As it stands, the PS4 is a 7870 with 2 missing CU's with some pipeline enhancements relative to ease of memory accesibility, there's no way the 750ti will or should outperform the PS4, unless a game is 25% GPU and 75% CPU, you know that's not happening, because the majority of games that you will see are all about the GPU (in essence GPU limited).
I can't overclock my PS4 GPU....., in any case, all the talk about the 750ti setup was not so much to draw discussion because it's an entry level beast. It was being parroted by console detractors who were saying that the consoles were weak and were simply laptop parts etc...What better way to make a point....disingenuosly of course.. than to present a setup weaker than the PS4 (on balance) and say Hey! the 750ti is running these games better than the PS4 (it's running all these games at 60fps with 16xAF (great filtering)), I'm referring to the games I mentioned above, but now we all know the dynamics. The point is, it was always a wrong stance to make an argument on and it still is....
Soon, when multi devs start to give us some commendable efforts on the console side, like Project Cars, Batman and not crap like Saints Row, the 750ti will not even be heard about anymore, but it never was in contention really. My point is, all these claims were made on the stock 750ti, (that it's on par or better) even now, the overclock is not enough, the gap will grow even wider when the devs wake up and even wider when GPGPU gets more widespread.
As for this thread, the 750ti (now I have to say core/vanilla or reference card) which all the hubub was about in the first place can't run MGS5 anywhere close to the PS4's performance.
They are hand in hand, but you seperated the two for emphasis, when in fact the difference is model detail. Can you can see soldiers into the distance and can't see them on the PS4?
Don't be naive, I remember even in the ZOE2HD thread, some persons were saying that this is the best PS3 can do, that all the effects in ZOE2 was too much for the PS3's limited bandwidth, do you think they were right. Come on man, we've seen games with 16xAF at 60fps that look much better than Dishonored, lets not play that card, it's silly.
That's probably the 2 millionth time I'm linking this to you, you just downplay it like always, speak ill of NXgamer's technobabble, get amnesia for the next faceoff thread and the loop ensues.......
Here's the link.......................................................................
It's obvious we need to generate some dialogue and we need to know more, but the fact that so many devs are improving things so rapidly without performances costs after release, speaks quite a bit about console developement or perhaps "when you're spread too thin" across several platforms.
Please view the video I linked above for a good take on how these things happen. Also refer to games like USF4 (potatoes could run this at max) and the improvement it got. The Borderlands collection got massive framerate boosts, so did Project Cars. It's just that some developers care after their games hit retail and some don't. Dying Light is still selling well, even now for a reason..........
So what if the PS4 gpu can't be overclocked? Thats the consoles problem. If i go out and buy a 750ti i can overclock it.
Dust-by-Monday
Member
It's just a bad looking game in my opinion. It's very basic. I'm loving the way Mad Max looks though. Those sunsets!
As basic as it looks, MGS5 has probably one of, if not the best, most aesthetically pleasing and realistic/neutral color-grading I've seen in a game. The only other I can think of is GT5/6.
The Dear Leader
Banned
nvm
EDIT: Thought this was the MGSV DF thread not the Dying Light one my bad.
EDIT: Thought this was the MGSV DF thread not the Dying Light one my bad.
I am not sure íf you are serious (or if you were honestly confused by the Dying Light post), but this IS the MGSV thread.
Dictator93
Member
That's probably the 2 millionth time I'm linking this to you, you just downplay it like always, speak ill of NXgamer's technobabble, get amnesia for the next faceoff thread and the loop ensues.......
Here's the link.......................................................................
Here is the link to the moment when he talks about "adaptive tessellation".
He mentions it when talking about the possible change to drawdistance / LOD levels on the PS4 version: specifically how it now is more similar to the 0% scale on the PC version instead of being below it. While it is an interesting guess at what is perhaps being seen... saying it maybe "adaptive tessellation" because the pipe is more rounded in a screenshot comparison is not conclusive evidence (i.e. two overlapping screens and switching between them noticing the extra roundness of an object). Rather, the best way to show off any tessellation usually is to look for extreme micro detail that would be impractical even on an LOD 0 (implying a height map displacement), or to change your distance between the object to see if a new LOD loads or the object maintains the same level of apparent roundness at all distances. If you do not see a visible LOD load and the silhouette maintains coherency at all distances, then you could probably assume that it is tessellated with a higher degree of certainty (that it unless the game for some reason uses the same LOD 0 for all distances and that LOD 0 is super high poly). This would be best shown in video form and not with screenshots.
Given the evidence presented, I do not think one can reasonably conclude "adaptive tessellation". But he uses the word "seems" before labeling it... so all is well I guess.
With better evidence, it could be proven to a greater degree of certainty.
RobRSG
Member
I'm happy with the PS4 version. 1080p/60fps with barely noticeable dips and minor slowdown in very specific cases, like when quiet is running through the map and you're near her, the dust alpha effects are GPU intensive for some reason.
I've saw a glimpse of the Xbox One version and it seems to run fine too.
I'll grab the PC version to see how scalable MGSV is... I have a i5 2300+GTS450+4GB RAM at the moment and intend to upgrade very soon.
I've saw a glimpse of the Xbox One version and it seems to run fine too.
I'll grab the PC version to see how scalable MGSV is... I have a i5 2300+GTS450+4GB RAM at the moment and intend to upgrade very soon.
I see we are back to micro studying videos again, I wonder why we do not see this sort of micro study or even as I was involved with the other night "outrage" at such things spouted as fact with DF videos.
Let's take the last one they did on F6 where they state and I quote " puddles are rendered as a full 3D entity rather than a 2D texture" linked here http://youtu.be/OTEw3qfrh30
Not only is this compete tosh but it is not done with your much needed maybe/possibly statement just said as fact when anyone with any knowledge (basic) would look and go what?!?!
This highlights my point that we are seeing a very clear and divided standard level to aim at these 2 sources, and if anything the standards should be higher for Eurogamer and its staff who do this full time rather than a part time single guy not lower or it seems simply accepted, to me this all looks very transparent.
By the way check out his Naughty Dog video on ps4 coding, that was very good I thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIIQk185avw
Didn't see this posted, so I linked it. Anyway, I thought this was a pretty good video. Many of his findings are the same as DF's except:
He thinks volumetric clouds are not in the console versions, which is funny, 'cause we had screenshots in here that proved that it is in. Is it perhaps dynamic and varies depending on location?
His A10/750 Ti combo had some frequent drops in sand storms and combat sequences.
Console versions occasionally have motion blur disabled in cutscenes, but it's back in gameplay
P.S. I'm not doing this to start a war. Just wanted to share his findings.
Didn't see this posted, so I linked it. Anyway, I thought this was a pretty good video. Many of his findings are the same as DF's except:
He thinks volumetric clouds are not in the console versions, which is funny, 'cause we had screenshots in here that proved that it is in. Is it perhaps dynamic and varies depending on location?
His A10/750 Ti combo had some frequent drops in sand storms and combat sequences.
Console versions occasionally have motion blur disabled in cutscenes, but it's back in gameplay
P.S. I'm not doing this to start a war. Just wanted to share his findings.
Dictator93
Member
I posted in the thread set up by the last word. Screenshots of some random clouds may not be enough apparently as this thread has shown, perhaps we need video form or to look for the eccentricities of the volumetric clouds. For example, they are filtered in such a way that there is noticable dithering in the night sky actually if you look. If that was not there on the console versions, then we would probably know most certaintly. Check out this screenshot I took:
Depending how your browser downsamples and scales it, you should actually see a moire pattern in the skye due to the consistent dither pattern in it (pin the window to half desktop size for example with Firefox). And if you zoom in you should be able to see the dither actually.
We would need uncompressed pngs for that of course.
I really wish I could join in on this hunt for clouds, man, but I don't even have a PS4 yet.I posted in the thread set up by the last word. Screenshots of some random clouds may not be enough apparently as this thread has shown, perhaps we need video form or to look for the eccentricities of the volumetric clouds. For example, they are filtered in such a way that there is noticable dithering in the night sky actually if you look. If that was not there on the console versions, then we would probably know most certaintly. Check out this screenshot I took:
Depending how your browser downsamples and scales it, you should actually see a moire pattern in the skye due to the consistent dither pattern in it (pin the window to half desktop size for example with Firefox). And if you zoom in you should be able to see the dither actually.
We would need uncompressed pngs for that of course.
Maybe I will in December, but by then, we'll most likely already have a definitive conclusion.Dictator93
Member
I was just attempting to respond to a specific claim. If it makes anything, I also have posted long wind responses and criticisms regarding DF content before.
I will look at that then.
To be fair, I am pretty sure my post history speaks for itself, but I tend to challenge anything I see as lacking (if I have the time). I do not try and pick favorites.
Sure.
I really wish I could join in on this hunt for clouds, man, but I don't even have a PS4 yet.
"maybe one day"
Hey, if I wasn't having the biggest exam of my life in less than 2 months, I would have gotten a PS4 long ago.
And that is fine, it is an analysis process so mistakes can and do get made. Having both is a good thing not a bad one and we can bounce of them and things get picked up or missed by both.
Dictator93
Member
Coming back to this:
The claim is probably based on something the devs have said, but instead of just regurgitating it.. the best way to test out their "3Dness" would be to go through a puddle at low speed to see if the wheel dips down into it IMO, and thecompare that with the placement of the wheel when going high speed (which presumably shows hydro plaining). If the wheel does not dip into the puddle at low speed (best seen in a replay mode probably), then you could probably assume it is just a 2d texture with some logic tied to it about how the car handles on the surface at different speeds.