Support NeoGAF

[Donald mac Ronald]

Mgs5 has some of the best 3rd person action/stealth controls and gaming ever made. The fox engine handles it brilliantly and the game is a looker too.

The gameplay is super smooth and a joy to play. The game can give you lots of options of how to proceed and you can just have fun in unique ways.

Unfortunately this is all ruined by shitty game design that turns into Pokémon.
Hey need new guns and gadgets to have fun with. Well you're going to have to research them.
How do you do that? Well you gotta capture soldiers directly from your missions or roaming the map.

I know kojima started to shove some shitty pacifist shit in all of his games. And kinda rewards you if you don't kill literally anyone. But along side that your scouting every soldier you see because you want to tag and bag the best grade soldiers. So go end up playing around this mechanic nearly all the time and it sucks.
You might kill the occasional guard but you'll always resort to making sure you bag and tag.

Now this could have been handled way differently. You could have just hired people etc from a menu and grow your base like that. Or a reward from pulling off missions and people flocking to your cause.

But using binoculars to scout and scan every soldier and then proceeding to bag half of them just isn't fun and stops you using the cool guns because you want to unlock more, so you rinse and repeat. If you don't do this you cuck yourself because you'll be stuck with basic shit. Sucks the fun out of the game.

 

[Puscifer]

I mean they did stuff the man into a broom closet from all the feature creep

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

I mean they did stuff the man into a broom closet from all the feature creep

Having you collect soldiers reeks of kojima

 

[BennyBlanco]

Infinite Heaven

Extend gameplay through several hundred configurable options ranging from Subsistence mode for all missions, replay side-ops, Mother base invasions with multiple attack helicopters, Skull attacks in F

www.nexusmods.com

Highly recommend this mod

 

[TintoConCasera]

Imo the shittest way to ruin a game with stealth is letting you see your enemies behind walls. Did MGS5 do that? I think so but man it's been a while now.

The bullet-time when you are about to be discovered is kinda lame as well, killed a lot of the challenge in that game imo.

Still a joy to play ofc, but it could have been better with a few tweaks. They made the game too easy.

 

[AmuroChan]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I really liked the capturing enemy soldiers part of the game.

 

[Hrk69]

Speak for yourself please

 

[Fahdis]

Mgs5 has some of the best 3rd person action/stealth controls and gaming ever made. The fox engine handles it brilliantly and the game is a looker too.

The gameplay is super smooth and a joy to play. The game can give you lots of options of how to proceed and you can just have fun in unique ways.

Unfortunately this is all ruined by shitty game design that turns into Pokémon.
Hey need new guns and gadgets to have fun with. Well you're going to have to research them.
How do you do that? Well you gotta capture soldiers directly from your missions or roaming the map.

I know kojima started to shove some shitty pacifist shit in all of his games. And kinda rewards you if you don't kill literally anyone. But along side that your scouting every soldier you see because you want to tag and bag the best grade soldiers. So go end up playing around this mechanic nearly all the time and it sucks.
You might kill the occasional guard but you'll always resort to making sure you bag and tag.

Now this could have been handled way differently. You could have just hired people etc from a menu and grow your base like that. Or a reward from pulling off missions and people flocking to your cause.

But using binoculars to scout and scan every soldier and then proceeding to bag half of them just isn't fun and stops you using the cool guns because you want to unlock more, so you rinse and repeat. If you don't do this you cuck yourself because you'll be stuck with basic shit. Sucks the fun out of the game.

This thread was brought to you by:
Hideo Kojima

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

Imo the shittest way to ruin a game with stealth is letting you see your enemies behind walls. Did MGS5 do that? I think so but man it's been a while now.

The bullet-time when you are about to be discovered is kinda lame as well, killed a lot of the challenge in that game imo.

Still a joy to play ofc, but it could have been better with a few tweaks. They made the game too easy.

The bullet time thing could be turned off and was disabled at higher difficulties I believe. Hmm I think the stupid binoculars let you see through walls.

 

[RoboFu]

" Shitty pacifist shit "

what a quote !

 

[PauloRoberto]

MSG5 is the MOST INSECURE game I've had the 'unpleasure' to play... I mean, take a shot each time kojima's name appear and your liver and bladder will DIE before you even see skullface, for God's sake!

 

[rabbity-thing]

Is this bait?

 

[KimDongHwan]

I think you are right, I wonder if game developers have enough time to test a game for the long run just to figure out how gamers will actually play the game after X amount of hours. This seems like an issue that starts to creep in through out mid of the game.

 

[adamsapple]

Now this could have been handled way differently. You could have just hired people etc from a menu and grow your base like that. Or a reward from pulling off missions and people flocking to your cause.

Capturing soldiers is a key part of the game.

 

[Futaleufu]

So many weapons you'll never use

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Mgs5 has some of the best 3rd person action/stealth controls and gaming ever made. The fox engine handles it brilliantly and the game is a looker too.

The gameplay is super smooth and a joy to play. The game can give you lots of options of how to proceed and you can just have fun in unique ways.

Unfortunately this is all ruined by shitty game design that turns into Pokémon.
Hey need new guns and gadgets to have fun with. Well you're going to have to research them.
How do you do that? Well you gotta capture soldiers directly from your missions or roaming the map.

I know kojima started to shove some shitty pacifist shit in all of his games. And kinda rewards you if you don't kill literally anyone. But along side that your scouting every soldier you see because you want to tag and bag the best grade soldiers. So go end up playing around this mechanic nearly all the time and it sucks.
You might kill the occasional guard but you'll always resort to making sure you bag and tag.

Now this could have been handled way differently. You could have just hired people etc from a menu and grow your base like that. Or a reward from pulling off missions and people flocking to your cause.

But using binoculars to scout and scan every soldier and then proceeding to bag half of them just isn't fun and stops you using the cool guns because you want to unlock more, so you rinse and repeat. If you don't do this you cuck yourself because you'll be stuck with basic shit. Sucks the fun out of the game.

I feel like a crazy person people telling me it's one of the greatest games of all times when the game itself gets in the way of your fun. Way too much distance between objectives, have to go back to the base all the time, managing resources, hearing "This is Piquad..." every 10 minutes; I like the game but it irritated me to no end.

 

[Drake]

I actually didn't mind capturing the soldiers, I thought that bit was quite fun. I loved the game, but my biggest issue with it was that if you wanted to get the full story you were forced to listen to hours up hours of pre-recorded messages that were scattered throughout the game world as opposed to just putting them into the actual story or cut scenes. But this isn't a huge surprise as they forced Kojima to put out the game before it was ready. It's a 9/10 for me though just for the game play and sandbox they give you.

 

[Fahdis]

So many weapons you'll never use

D Dog and Quiet are really all you need tbqh. I had more fun with them taking out every base than anything else.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

So many weapons you'll never use

You can research a tranq sniper so you can capture those soldiers easier for more research.

You know you can unlock a tranq nuke right?

 

[Jinzo Prime]

So many weapons you'll never use

And the only one that matters is the silenced tranc gun + Quiet. Game Over.

 

[Drake]

So many weapons you'll never use

I really do need to go through this game a 2nd time with all lethal weapons. My first play through I did all silenced tranquilizers so I basically missed all the cool weapons. Tranqs in that game are OP though especially if you can consistently get headshots. Not as good late game with the enemy armor, but super good up until then.

 

[struggler_guts]

You know you can unlock a tranq nuke right?

Maybe I SHOULD play this game...

 

[AJUMP23]

You can research a tranq sniper so you can capture those soldiers easier for more research.

You know you can unlock a tranq nuke right?

It did incentivize you not to kill but I liked the killing.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

It did incentivize you not to kill but I liked the killing.

Yeah in the end I killed a shit load of people. My devil horns grew extremely large.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

So many weapons you'll never use

mgs4 too

...which kinda makes me want to replay it (though its my least favorite MGS).

but the better weapons let you easily rambo your way through levels, which is so un-MGS to me.

 

[Perrott]

That's the brilliance of its game design.

That gameplay and progression loop - reminiscent of that of the Monster Hunter series, which inspired the new direction of the MGSV trilogy that began with Peace Walker - is magnificent, and the way that cycle is tied to the game's themes and the literal point of its second, never-ending Chapter that encapsulates in itself the idea of perpetual conflict and war as a business, over the ten-year period that leads straight into the original Metal Gear.

You just didn't get it.

 

[SeanyQuest]

Fuck this game. It sucks. Its story and characters suck. How do you make Ocelot sooooooo average? Where the fuck is Gray Fox, “Big Boss’ most trusted lieutenant”? Why is it open world? Why is there basically no comprehensible story?

This game might get a bigger pass than Mass Effect 2. Some of the most disappointing sequels ever made

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

That's the brilliance of its game design.

That gameplay and progression loop - reminiscent of that of the Monster Hunter series, which inspired the new direction of the MGSV trilogy that began with Peace Walker - is magnificent, and the way that cycle is tied to the game's themes and the literal point of its second, never-ending Chapter that encapsulates in itself the idea of perpetual conflict and war as a business, over the ten-year period that leads straight into the original Metal Gear.

You just didn't get it.

Yeah I didn't get it. A game forcing me to play Pokémon that made it less fun and a times a chore to play .

Funny you bring up peace walker to back up arguments. Peacewalker is without a doubt one of the worse games I have ever played.
Missions that have 2 guards and you can run through in 10 seconds on average.
A man falls in love with a computer and cries over it. List goes on. I forced myself to play this garbage before mgs came out.

 

[StereoVsn]

I mostly agree with OP. Gameplay was great and I didn’t mind bullet time. Soldier capturing gimmick got old fast. And mission design alongside the story just kind of went nowhere after a while.

 

[Badlucktroll]

I bet if Kojima didn't leave Konami MGS6 would have been Big Boss going around making deliveries and connections to create outer heaven

 

[EviLore]

Yes. Capturing hundreds of soldiers is entirely at odds with the core action-stealth gameplay.

 

[Perrott]

Yeah I didn't get it. A game forcing me to play Pokémon that made it less fun and a times a chore to play .

Funny you bring up peace walker to back up arguments. Peacewalker is without a doubt one of the worse games I have ever played.
Missions that have 2 guards and you can run through in 10 seconds on average.
A man falls in love with a computer and cries over it. List goes on. I forced myself to play this garbage before mgs came out.

Maybe you just liked the previous direction of the Metal Gear series better based on personal preference.

The Peace Walker-Ground Zeroes-The Phantom Pain arc of MGS was conceived as having an entirely different design philosophy from all previous entries, hence why none of the games is actually called Metal Gear Solid 5. They were born on the PSP, as a way of trying to appeal to the back-then newer generation of Japanese gamers who were growing up playing Monster Hunter on PSP or Pokémon games on Nintendo handhelds. Following the soft sales reception of Peace Walker in the West, an open-world element was introduced to Ground Zeroes and The Phantom Pain, both of which were still targetting handheld hardware - PSVITA, for which Project Ogre was announced for at TGS 2011 - as Kojima had envisioned a future focused on cross-buy, cross-save and cross-play between PS3 and PSVITA, for which he developed the Transfarring technology that debuted with the Metal Gear Solid HD Collection. Of course, the Vita died (or rather it was clear that it had zero momentum) midway through the making of MGSV, but all the design choices had already been made at that point.***

There's no other game that dares to explore certain design and storytelling routes the way and to the extent that MGSV does, and because of that it is a rough experience to approach - even as a MGS fan - and one that anyone might have deep problems with until the game as a whole clicks with you, and then you understand its nature and why everything is the way it is - and love it. But that doesn't and won't happen for everyone, which is the risk of doing something truly unique.

*** It's very fitting that the footprint that its conception as, in part, a handheld title - its bite-sized, arcade-like mission structure and serialized narrative pacing - ended up permeating the entirety of the MGSV experience, in spite of it ultimately releasing as a home console title. You're feeling the concequences (in case you wanna see it that way) of a way of consuming the product that was just impossible to get at launch. Like... a phantom pain. GOTY.

 

[Umbral]

Capturing soldiers is a key part of the game.

It does get exhausting after a while. You are no longer focused on the mission or story, you’re looking for good soldiers. After playing Peace Walker I was over that whole loop.

 

[EverydayBeast]

MGS5 was a special game as well as death stranding but man those menus, cargo slots, traverse vehicles were brutal.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

I love the core gameplay loop but the way the game is chopped up along with the extra features it just didn’t need made me drop it three times after about ten hours on every occasion.

 

[Represent.]

I knew this would be true. I just dont trust their open world design. Why i ended up not playing it

 

[Kumomeme]

the fulton is the fun part.

however the problem is that the world is designed like a lobby system. the motherbase is lobby. while the world is the map. each mission is repetitive of deploy from motherbase and return instead of fullfledge open world exploration on foot.

 

[newtypepilot]

wtf you are talking about? gameplay is ass. Fox engine can't handle more than 12 enemies at once. Enemy AI is dumber than older games.

 

[Roni]

Now this could have been handled way differently. You could have just hired people etc from a menu and grow your base like that. Or a reward from pulling off missions and people flocking to your cause.

That's such a great idea it's already in the game.

Volunteers

In Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain, volunteers are soldiers that join the ranks of Diamond Dogs on their own accord, as apposed to prisoners or enemy combatants that must be Fultoned back to Mother Base and (particularly later in the game) held in the brig until Ocelot convinces them to...

metalgear.fandom.com

Stop trying to Minmax. The game lets you play as you like... You're placing yourself in that pit by obsessing over results in a video game. Let go and focus on having fun. If you really like the gameplay and want the game to have some difficulty after the myriad of upgrades you can get over the course of the campaign, try the Jarhead Challenge.

 

[SakkanartSilentJealousy]

I end up spend hundreds of hours to capture S+ soldiers, gathering resource and upgrade my mother base, didn't know why I need to do that. They just want you to spend your time into there game I guess.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I feel like a crazy person people telling me it's one of the greatest games of all times when the game itself gets in the way of your fun. Way too much distance between objectives, have to go back to the base all the time, managing resources, hearing "This is Piquad..." every 10 minutes; I like the game but it irritated me to no end.

Yes, going back to base and then running towards objectives has put too much downtime between cool stuff.

I am playing it currently, this is biggest issue for me.

I don’t capture soldiers, spend minimum time in base, don’t care about guns/gadgets etc..

Still game makes me wait a while and do boring stuff a lot.

 

[Stu_Hart]

I don't think the game design is an issue. My only issue is the way it was rushed to completion after that big, bad ass boss fight in the first chapter, but that's konami and kojima's faults. Yes, both parties are at fault for this game's state.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Mgs5 has some of the best 3rd person action/stealth controls and gaming ever made. The fox engine handles it brilliantly and the game is a looker too.

The gameplay is super smooth and a joy to play. The game can give you lots of options of how to proceed and you can just have fun in unique ways.

Unfortunately this is all ruined by shitty game design that turns into Pokémon.
Hey need new guns and gadgets to have fun with. Well you're going to have to research them.
How do you do that? Well you gotta capture soldiers directly from your missions or roaming the map.

I know kojima started to shove some shitty pacifist shit in all of his games. And kinda rewards you if you don't kill literally anyone. But along side that your scouting every soldier you see because you want to tag and bag the best grade soldiers. So go end up playing around this mechanic nearly all the time and it sucks.
You might kill the occasional guard but you'll always resort to making sure you bag and tag.

Now this could have been handled way differently. You could have just hired people etc from a menu and grow your base like that. Or a reward from pulling off missions and people flocking to your cause.

But using binoculars to scout and scan every soldier and then proceeding to bag half of them just isn't fun and stops you using the cool guns because you want to unlock more, so you rinse and repeat. If you don't do this you cuck yourself because you'll be stuck with basic shit. Sucks the fun out of the game.

I’ve always said one of the best looking and playing games ever. There was just this lack of cohesiveness to it made it feel rushed.
e

 

[begotten]

MGSV is ruined by Kojima's shitty writing and flogging roles to people like Keifer Sutherland and Stefanie Joosten.

Whole franchise almost came burning down because of V.

No Frank Jaeger, Vocal Parasites, The Medic and Skull Face being reduced to a janitor during Operation Snake Eater, LOL!

Konami should have canned TPP, Ground Zeroes was awesome and would have become legendary today.

 

[Alexios]

It started with Portable Ops and Kojima adopted that design but at least there you had to drag them back to an extraction point so you weren't gonna do it for every random goon unless you wanted to spend ages in the level. Idk, maybe people wanted to so they created fulton to speed it up..?

I guess they could have made it so you actually set out on missions (repeatable with different layouts etc. if they still wanted the same padding) rather than random open world bs and after you clear the mission the clean up crew or whatever supposedly would take the knocked out survivors in.

Fultoning was much the same in Peace Walker so I guess you shouldn't have expected them to backpedal on it though. That whole period was the one time where Splinter Cell came out as a better stealth action game than MGS, Blacklist was a brilliant linear mission based game with few issues.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

shitty pacifist shit

 

[RAIDEN1]

It's the least "immersive" game out of the previous 4, even Metal Gear Peacewalker was more immersive, a barren open waste-land, there was nothing about the game on the level whereby Metal Gear 4 literally convinced me to get a Playstation 3 because of it..

 

[Fbh]

Yeah the core gameplay is amazing but I found the open world and mission based structure of the game annoying. I also hate the base building stuff.
I'd love a stealth game with the gameplay of MGS5 but with a more linear structure like the previous entries in the franchise.

 

[yansolo]

i agree, it has the best gameplay, the worst everything else, got stale fast for me its the only metal gear i never finished.

 

[6502]

Original psx game aside, nothing beats Twin Snakes. Total action espionage. Msgv felt like season 8 of 24.