I think the things it does right aren't anything special given what we're USED to getting in Metroid, though. What it gets wrong -- and there are so, so many things it does wrong -- is far more baffling. I was positive about this game because I believed a Metroid game ought to have a certain level of quality no matter what, but Other M totally proved that wrong to me.
If I had to assemble a list of the top ten games of the last decade, I'd very likely be forced to put all 3 Metroid Prime games on the list. I couldn't even pick just one of them.
Despite that, I think Other M is, while not as expansive and vast a game in design and concept as Metroid Prime, still quite excellent.
People seem to not be able to tell the difference between "quality" and "concept".
Most of what people say Other M fails at isn't "quality of execution" or "quality of design". It's concept; Other M is conceptually very different from Other Metroid games; even then, its concepts are spiritually Metroid. It's still not all that far off the farm.
However, Metroid fans who do not like the concept balk at the game and react by deciding they must be balking because "it is crappy".
The thing is, most of the specific things people cite as Other M "utterly failing to do right" are not the design team sticking their fingers up their nose and going "NYAR NYAR NYAR, WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT A METROID IS". The traditional Metroid game is not a mysterious thing. It's become a commoditized genre (the Metroidvania). B-level Castlevania teams can hit all the proper design notes of a Metroid. Most of the things Other M does differently are done entirely on purpose.
But fans with a hate hardon do not really judge the game based on how well it executes what it sets out to do. They just it on how different it is from the singular design document they want a game in the Metroid universe to follow - then just it to be "low quality" for not following that document.
Magicpaint said:
It's much simpler than even Prime 3 and that can't be a good thing in a series that's supposed to be about exploring a huge labyrinthine world. The level design is OK for a middling action game but awful for Metroid. In 2D Metroid you also go fast, but level design wasn't sacrificed.
This is what makes me think hardcore fans who hate the game are actually defining any action game that isn't Metroid has having inherently "lower quality" design. Metroid = good. Non Metroid = bad.
Other M's design is an intentional experiment to fuse some of Metroid's non-linear world layout and feeling of quite exploration with a full bore action game. It is actually a very difficult experiment. I think the team deserves a lot of credit for their first attempt turning out as well as it does.
Lots of sentiments in this legendary thread can't help but remind me of watching a bunch of Super Turbo players in the hardest core fighting game communities constantly go on about how awful and "wrong" Street Fighter IV is.
This is what makes me think hardcore fans who hate the game are actually defining any action game that isn't Metroid has having inherently "lower quality" design. Metroid = good. Non Metroid = bad.
Other M's design is an intentional experiment to fuse some of Metroid's non-linear world layout and feeling of quite exploration with a full bore action game. It is actually a very difficult experiment. I think the team deserves a lot of credit for their first attempt turning out as well as it does.
Lots of sentiments in this legendary thread can't help but remind me of watching a bunch of Super Turbo players in the hardest core fighting game communities constantly go on about how awful and "wrong" Street Fighter IV is.
Well to be fair, I did say for a middling action game. Meaning that the level design still isn't good enough for a great action game. Action games focus on the action, meaning level design often takes a back seat -- but the truly excellent action games often combine both well (Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry, Resident Evil 4 etc). But the action in a great action game definitely also surpasses Metroid's core action since Metroid doesn't focus on action, so it balances out.
My problem with Other M is that it does neither action nor exploration particularly well. I appreciate the ambition, but if the execution amounts to something that suffers an identity crisis, then it's hard for me to appreciate the result itself. Metroid Other M's overall design just lacks polish and cohesion.
i love other m. the tone and ambition of the story is great and while the actual dialogue is mixed in quality, sakamoto is not a writer so i don't expect it to be top shelf, not mention what i would imagine was a difficult translation. he took the (overpraised) minimalism of metroid and breathed new life and into it by channeling old-school genre science fiction, and despite the purist's stance - it makes sense. if the execution was stronger i think more people would realise that the choice was creative and logical. i mean, fuck, a red and gold suited female space bounty hunter who fights space pirates and has a space-dragon for a nemesis? you cannot disagree that metroid's mythology has a place in pulp-fiction.
"It was good if you consider that it's pretty much crap."
I'm fine with them taking the series in a new direction but it has to be a quality product in the end. No points for creativity here, just polish/quality.
Other M is like the Wii's Zelda 2. Maybe one day people will look back on it and see that it actually did do a lot of things right.
The game wasn't perfect, but outside of the lame story, to me, it was a Metroid game. Probably my least favorite in the series, but even a flawed Metroid game is still better than most games.
Well before reading my replies, I must say that if I come across as abrasive and angry it's not how I intended it.
edit : and in case you didn't already know that I freakingly HATE nearly every aspect of that game but the gfx and framerate which were indeed awesome.
Kaijima said:
If I had to assemble a list of the top ten games of the last decade, I'd very likely be forced to put all 3 Metroid Prime games on the list. I couldn't even pick just one of them.
Despite that, I think Other M is, while not as expansive and vast a game in design and concept as Metroid Prime, still quite excellent.
Huh, that would be a problem if Other M was at the very least on the level of Metroid Fusion (which it doesn't even come close to)
Kaijima said:
People seem to not be able to tell the difference between "quality" and "concept".
Most of what people say Other M fails at isn't "quality of execution" or "quality of design". It's concept; Other M is conceptually very different from Other Metroid games; even then, its concepts are spiritually Metroid. It's still not all that far off the farm.
However, Metroid fans who do not like the concept balk at the game and react by deciding they must be balking because "it is crappy".
The problem being that the concept can also be pretty crappy to begin with...such as the authorisation system which is really a very bad idea as far as design goes because you're never in charge of the progress, the game does it for you. It would have been way more interesting if Adam authorized stuffs randomly even. And then there's stuffs that makes no freaking sense, like the gravity boots.
There's a grand total of 1 area it's needed and you only get it because the other guy get the axe if I remember well
Another crappy concept, is the whole first person view of the game, it brings nothing but the feeling that they've acknowledge that people liked the prime games and decided to make something crappy with that (like the Waldo sequences which really need to get an award for bad design for implementation and intent)
Kaijima said:
The thing is, most of the specific things people cite as Other M "utterly failing to do right" are not the design team sticking their fingers up their nose and going "NYAR NYAR NYAR, WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT A METROID IS". The traditional Metroid game is not a mysterious thing. It's become a commoditized genre (the Metroidvania). B-level Castlevania teams can hit all the proper design notes of a Metroid. Most of the things Other M does differently are done entirely on purpose.
Actually Castlevania brings RPG elements which kinda brake the game as is. Metroid is also one of the kind for its atmosphere (that was utterly destroyed in Other M, I mean at least Fusion had the SA-X).
the insulting way they hid the powerups also makes me think that actually they were pressured into putting that in "just for the fans"
(considering that they disappear in hard mode, that's clearly not made for metroid fans)
Kaijima said:
But fans with a hate hardon do not really judge the game based on how well it executes what it sets out to do. They just it on how different it is from the singular design document they want a game in the Metroid universe to follow - then just it to be "low quality" for not following that document.
Actually it fails as a game because it's really not fun as an action game (they streamlined the game in the worst possible way while somehow making it more complicated to play) and is absolutely horrendous as an exploration game.
I mean there is basically nothing to explore at all, the progression is one of the worst I've ever seen (crappy movies and books included, yes that includes the half finished book I wanted to write when I was younger).
Kaijima said:
This is what makes me think hardcore fans who hate the game are actually defining any action game that isn't Metroid has having inherently "lower quality" design. Metroid = good. Non Metroid = bad.
Or maybe it's just bad because it's bad? For example, Metroid Prime is quite clearly different in its design compared to your average Halo, that doesn't mean 1 is better than the other.
Depending on what is expected from the game, one is entitled or not in thinking a game fails in its attempt.
Other M is actually quite similar to Dawn of Mana....except that Ishii had the decency of warning people ahead of time.
It's not good and certainly doesn't live up to the Seiken Densetsu name, but at least they didn't try to pass it as a return to form when it was a developer's wet dream.
Kaijima said:
Other M's design is an intentional experiment to fuse some of Metroid's non-linear world layout and feeling of quite exploration with a full bore action game. It is actually a very difficult experiment. I think the team deserves a lot of credit for their first attempt turning out as well as it does.
Actually they should be flamed to hell and back in tarnishing a brand with their failed experiment.
It doesn't work as an action since there's no payoff to any fights beyond the unlocking of doors (no points for score, no item left for reward...NOTHING). And the exploration is void and null considered that the game makes it a point that the player follow the little yellow dot on the map.
Kaijima said:
Lots of sentiments in this legendary thread can't help but remind me of watching a bunch of Super Turbo players in the hardest core fighting game communities constantly go on about how awful and "wrong" Street Fighter IV is.
Well, I had fun with the game... absolutely loved the way Samus controlled. I wouldn't mind another game with this engine but with good level design and better art
I got this game on UK launch and put 3 hours into it. I kind of got stuck then bored and shelved the game.
So I decided to start this again last week and now I'm playing through it. I got past the part where I was stuck previously. Now I'm 6 hours 49 in and I AM ABSOLUTELY LOVING IT!!!
Everything is awesome, the pace the action and even the cutscenes. Great game...so far!!
The voice acting isn't as bad as people say, its a plus and it makes me want a voice acted Zelda even more. I think they got a good Voice Actress for Samus.
The voice acting isn't as bad as people say, its a plus and it makes me want a voice acted Zelda even more. I think they got a good Voice Actress for Samus.
I also really liked the game. It certainly wasn't classic Metroid, and there were a lot of really strange direction decisions like Pixel hunts & those slow over the shoulder walks through some rooms. WTF was that?
But the game gets a lot of undeserved hate IMO. far from perfect, but it was a solid 7/10 type of game.
Never had the opportunity to comment on this game, I finished it a long time ago...
I actually found it pretty decent. If it wasn't for the dumb monologues the story would have been a lot more tolerable (although I'm still annoyed about the plotholes). Still think they didn't really finish the story at all, but whatever.
The gameplay was simplistic but enjoyable, OTS sections were pointless though, it's obvious they planned for something more but never finished that part.
Boss Fights were awesome! Especially
Ridley and Phantoon
, extremely impressive, loved them.
All in all it's not as good as other metroid games but it's still not the massive piece of shit people make it out to be. It's pretty cheap on amazon so people on the fence should pick it up.
The one area where the game really failed was in the soundtrack. Metroid is a franchise known for iconic music. This games OST was far to ambient for my liking. It kind of worked, but at the same time I wanted some awesome memorable themes that I've come to expect from the franchise.
The one area where the game really failed was in the soundtrack. Metroid is a franchise known for iconic music. This games OST was far to ambient for my liking. It kind of worked, but at the same time I wanted some awesome memorable themes that I've come to expect from the franchise.
They absolutely failed on the sound design front, while Metroid Prime excelled in that. It was one of my biggest disappointments for the game, especially after I had just played Super Metroid for the first time on VC.
I was really surprised by how awful the story turned out to be especially after how amazing the opening CG cut scene was despite being so short. The whole story felt like something out of Resident Evil plot, complete with cheesy moments. However, it featured worse dialogue and we were robbed of satisfying conclusions. Sakamoto and D Rockets even managed to make Samus an uninteresting character.
While Sakamoto had good intentions, it was scary how misguided he was on this project.
After having played through a bit of the game, I think that the hatred is actually exacerbated by the fact that the "golden moments" throw the mediocrity of their surroundings into sharp relief. There have been a couple places that provided a certain feeling of engagement and catharsis, e.g.
the morph ball path that runs along the exterior of the ship
, but then you get back into the pretty humdrum platforming and combat segments and it's a big come down.
I'm probably not going to finish it... I'm just not excited at all about the prospect of bringing the
shine spark
to sector 2. That's extremely disappointing, because that specific brand of excitement is absolutely integral to the appeal of Metroid games. In its absence, I really feel no reason to keep playing.
I wish I could understand the thought process behind this game's story. Either Sakamoto is a hack who shouldnt be anywhere near a story or he is a misogynist. Honestly, I hope he just sucks at writing.
Sakamoto has written and directed plenty of fine games, it's just pretty clear that "playin' it straight" is not exactly his forte. He had good intentions with Other M it seems but there just wasn't a light enough edge to give him the chance for the irreverence that he excels at.
So...after 2 hours, I think I hate this game. The controls are clunky, the environments (so far) are pretty ugly and all I want to do is play Metroid Prime. If I don't like it yet, am I doomed to hate it until the end? I want to like it, I really do, but I think that's my OCD of having to finish every game I start... I think this might be the one that I don't finish.
So...after 2 hours, I think I hate this game. The controls are clunky, the environments (so far) are pretty ugly and all I want to do is play Metroid Prime. If I don't like it yet, am I doomed to hate it until the end? I want to like it, I really do, but I think that's my OCD of having to finish every game I start... I think this might be the one that I don't finish.
Well, on the bright side, the game really isn't that long to begin with. It would probably take you 2-4 more hours to finish the game. And two of the upcoming bosses are actually fun to fight.
Unfortunately, the story doesn't get any better and the final boss is oddly extremely poorly designed for a mainline Nintendo game.
So...after 2 hours, I think I hate this game. The controls are clunky, the environments (so far) are pretty ugly and all I want to do is play Metroid Prime. If I don't like it yet, am I doomed to hate it until the end? I want to like it, I really do, but I think that's my OCD of having to finish every game I start... I think this might be the one that I don't finish.
Did you get to at least an area besides the gray ship interior?
Just started this the other night and got to the first "alien area" and coming from the Prime games, knowing this is a throw-back to Super Metroid and a sort of evolution to 2D Metroid games, I came away with this inkling:
This should have been the Metroid game on N64. Prime feels like the progression after a game like this. I'm not here to bash the game, because for what it is, I like it. But, coming from a fully realized Metroid Prime, this feels like the bridge between 2D and 3D. I feel like this was a prototype on N64, but they polished it up visually, added some Wii features and released it. If this were to be on N64 it would've blown my mind. This game was EXACTLY the experience I wanted back then. Constantly I wondered why they didn't put a Metroid game out for N64.
I actually liked how they implemented the 3D play within a 2D game. Shooting felt as it should, but firing missiles is awkward. I'm still not clear on the dodge/counter-attack. Can I only jump on dudes and shoot them or dodge and launch a fully charged shot? Is there more? I really like seeing enemies I hadn't seen since Metroid II (I have forgotten most of Super Metroid and I'm really looking forward to replaying it after this game).
So, basically what I'm getting at is that this game shouldn't be viewed as a progression of Metroid, but rather Nintendo giving us the experience we should have received 13 years ago. That's not to slight the game, as Super Metroid is still fully playable and loved for first timers today. It's as if someone took a game that was initially canceled, dusted it off, polished it up for higher standards and gave it to us. It's like Thrill Kill finally released with better graphics and mechanics on-par for the time period.
I actually liked how they implemented the 3D play within a 2D game. Shooting felt as it should, but firing missiles is awkward. I'm still not clear on the dodge/counter-attack. Can I only jump on dudes and shoot them or dodge and launch a fully charged shot? Is there more? I really like seeing enemies I hadn't seen since Metroid II (I have forgotten most of Super Metroid and I'm really looking forward to replaying it after this game).
For combat, don't really focus on charge shots, regular shots deal way more damage over time and are better stunners for lethal strikes, so it's a game of one more regular shot or hold the button for the instant charge with a dodge. I like to mix it up with missiles after a succesful dodge, especially if an enemy is weak to them to get a lethal strike as soon as possible. Jumping attacks also work well, especially when there's a few enemies in the room so you can combo from them.
But really, the gist of it is finding the fastest way of getting a lethal strike going on.
Never had the opportunity to comment on this game, I finished it a long time ago...
I actually found it pretty decent. If it wasn't for the dumb monologues the story would have been a lot more tolerable (although I'm still annoyed about the plotholes). Still think they didn't really finish the story at all, but whatever.
The gameplay was simplistic but enjoyable, OTS sections were pointless though, it's obvious they planned for something more but never finished that part.
Boss Fights were awesome! Especially
Ridley and Phantoon
, extremely impressive, loved them.
All in all it's not as good as other metroid games but it's still not the massive piece of shit people make it out to be. It's pretty cheap on amazon so people on the fence should pick it up.
Agreed, It's a let down for the series and needed a lot more balance, more backtracking and polish but it's still a very fun game. However, since you're mentioning bosses, I've mentioned this before but I just gotta say it again,
the last "fight" with MB and the bug sentry things was flat out terrible. You're forced to just stand there, aim, flail and shoot arcade style until you hit enough of the bugs to make the cut scene kick in where the Fed troops take down MB. The game's opening movie was screaming for the last boss to be an actual Mother Brain clone but no, gotta stick with the cliche'd anime sci fi theme. And why didn't we get a Kraid clone either?
If it weren't for
the win-set piece with the Metroid Queen before (except for insane gaffe with the power bomb) and the Phantoon battle later,
the game's last segment would have left a 100% awful taste in my mouth.
