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Metroid Prime 3 info

Red Scarlet said:
I honestly don't remember seeing them, my apologies. The way you have been posting in here, you seemed to only have a problem with Prime not being like Super...so don't even try to think I know how you feel on everything. :)

It's alright, but it bothers me when people keep saying "OH BUT YOU HAVE 2D HANDHELD GAMES!!!11oneoneone", when I don't feel they're up to par. Fusion was a different direction and Zero Mission was rushed. I enjoyed them both, far more than I did anything from Retro *spit*, but they've both got flaws...

Oh and now we have that shit on the fucking DS too. Fucking Prime needs to be wiped from the face of the earth.

I want the original Metroid team to have a decent budget/platform/time to make a proper follow-up to the original Metroid games, my favourite series outside Fire Emblem.
 
Dragona Akehi said:
It's alright, but it bothers me when people keep saying "OH BUT YOU HAVE 2D HANDHELD GAMES!!!11oneoneone", when I don't feel they're up to par. Fusion was a different direction and Zero Mission was rushed. I enjoyed them both, far more than I did anything from Retro *spit*, but they've both got flaws...

Oh and now we have that shit on the fucking DS too. Fucking Prime needs to be wiped from the face of the earth.

I want the original Metroid team to have a decent budget/platform/time to make a proper follow-up to the original Metroid games, my favourite series outside Fire Emblem.

I can see why one would adore the 2d versions and hate the 3d versions, but I just happen to adore them both. I personally thought Prime 1 was fantasic, and part two... well, it was great but could'nt match up with part 1.

I hope I don't get shot for this but I liked Fusion way more than I did Zero Mission. Though I did'nt completely beat ZM as of yet.
 
Metroid Prime rocked a lot. I, like others, had doubts when it was announced, but it wound up being one of the best games this generation.

That said, I still want a 'true' sequel to Super Metroid.
 
Even if the REV would be only 2-3 times more powerful than the cube, I wonder what retro will be able to do with their great art-division...
Imagine Metroid Prime, Chozo Ruins with more detail, textures and bump mapping!
 
I bought into the hype and finally played Metroid Prime.
My conclusion is that it is a thoroughly overrated game.

I agree that Samus was way too sluggish; slower and more lethargic than the space pirates she had to face so often. Not only was her movement slow but her suit was slow too. There was nothing worse than being in missle mode and having to change to ice beam. IMO, it took too many taps of the A button before you finally got a blast out.

I won't even get into the issues of level design being far inferior to the 2D games.

I now have zero interest in playing echoes especially since it has been widely acknowledged as being more frustrating than prime.

So Zelda, Metroid and Mario have been underwhelming for me this generation. (Mario less so) I weep for the N64.
 
Diffense said:
I bought into the hype and finally played Metroid Prime.
My conclusion is that it is a thoroughly overrated game.

I agree that Samus was way too sluggish; slower and more lethargic than the space pirates she had to face so often. Not only was her movement slow but her suit was slow too. There was nothing worse than being in missle mode and having to change to ice beam. IMO, it took too many taps of the A button before you finally got a blast out.

I won't even get into the issues of level design being far inferior to the 2D games.

I now have zero interest in playing echoes especially since it has been widely acknowledged as being more frustrating than prime.

So Zelda, Metroid and Mario have been underwhelming for me this generation. (Mario less so) I weep for the N64.

the game is generally regarded as being awesome. i like the way that samus controls, especially compared to lets say timesplitters, where i feel as if im floating through levels. and i also loved the level design.

you can have your opinion though. i played GTA and i didnt like it, so i know what its like to be in the minority :)
 
The problem with a first person Metroid is that it inherently limits movement based mechanics, which are also fundamental to the Metroid formula. Shinesparking, screw attacking, wall jumping, space jumping... these are all essential techniques that are either significantly limited or missing entirely in the Primes and as a result of this shift their pacing/flow and vertical world design suffer immesaurably compared to the rest of the franchise. To make matters worse, Retro's PR justification for going 1st person (aiming shots) is entirely negated by their own auto-targeting design. Given that, there's literally no good reason for the Primes to be 1st person over 3rd person... it inherently limits movement based mechanics and the auto-targeting negates any need for 1st person aiming. I'd say Retro's utterly failed in faithfully translating the franchise to 3D.
 
jarrod said:
The problem with a first person Metroid is that it inherently limits movement based mechanics, which are also fundamental to the Metroid formula. Shinesparking, screw attacking, wall jumping, space jumping... these are all essential techniques that are either significantly limited or missing entirely in the Primes and as a result of this shift their pacing/flow and vertical world design suffer immesaurably compared to the rest of the franchise. To make matters worse, Retro's PR justification for going 1st person (aiming shots) is entirely negated by their own auto-targeting design. Given that, there's literally no good reason for the Primes to be 1st person over 3rd person... it inherently limits movement based mechanics and the auto-targeting negates any need for 1st person aiming. I'd say Retro's utterly failed in faithfully translating the franchise to 3D.


Well that's your opinion....
 
Bluemercury said:
Well that's your opinion....
Exactly, all those essential techniques that jarrod mentioned were perfectly translated to 3D either in MP1 or MP2, IMO. I honestly couldn't have expected a better, more faithful transition than what we got. And I believe I'm in the majority here, considering the glowing reviews both games received.
 
What's weird is right now, the minimum # of keys to collect in 2 is the same number of artifacts in the first game.
Yeah but at least half of them are easily found throughout the game (though easy to miss too, but it's just how it goes), and you can pretty much get to the area where the clues of where each key are right from the beginning in Prime 1. In 2, you can't get into that room until more than halfway through, and you need to get one of the special visors to even see the 'animals' that hold the keys. Plus, since the world of Prime is so much "tighter" (a lot more connections between worlds), the backtracking isn't nearly as painful.

And just wondering, does moving to 3rd person really fix all the "Metroid feeling" problems? I mean, how perfect would the camera have to be to be able to jump high distances and wall jump to not become a major pain in the ass?
 
your complaint is that samus can't do everything in MP that she could do in Super Metroid?

please.

mario couldn't wear different suits in Mario64, but it was still a mario game. if i expected every new iteration of an old franchise to mimic its predecesors THAT closely, id soon become very bored with videogames.

samus was never even all that agile - it took her forever to complete a jump.
 
LakeEarth said:
Yeah but at least half of them are easily found throughout the game (though easy to miss too, but it's just how it goes), and you can pretty much get to the area where the clues of where each key are right from the beginning in Prime 1. In 2, you can't get into that room until more than halfway through, and you need to get one of the special visors to even see the 'animals' that hold the keys. Plus, since the world of Prime is so much "tighter" (a lot more connections between worlds), the backtracking isn't nearly as painful.

Yeah, I was just referring to how it's possible to only *have* to collect 12 of the 18 keys (Torvus and the 9 for the last boss). Nothing more. :)
 
Operations said:
Exactly, all those essential techniques that jarrod mentioned were perfectly translated to 3D either in MP1 or MP2, IMO. I honestly couldn't have expected a better, more faithful transition than what we got. And I believe I'm in the majority here, considering the glowing reviews both games received.


what?

jarrod said:
Shinesparking, screw attacking, wall jumping, space jumping

I don't recall a single one of those being in prime. Prime was an alright game in it's own right, but very overrated by the media and not nearly the game super metroid was. The old Metroid made you near invincible near the end which made end-game exploration fun. Prime really lacked that and became obnoxiously tedious as the game wore on. Once again, that's my opinion, but fans tend to gloss over the somewhat singificant flaws of the game in favor of remembering just its benefits.
 
jarrod said:
The problem with a first person Metroid is that it inherently limits movement based mechanics, which are also fundamental to the Metroid formula. Shinesparking, screw attacking, wall jumping, space jumping... these are all essential techniques that are either significantly limited or missing entirely in the Primes and as a result of this shift their pacing/flow and vertical world design suffer immesaurably compared to the rest of the franchise. To make matters worse, Retro's PR justification for going 1st person (aiming shots) is entirely negated by their own auto-targeting design. Given that, there's literally no good reason for the Primes to be 1st person over 3rd person... it inherently limits movement based mechanics and the auto-targeting negates any need for 1st person aiming. I'd say Retro's utterly failed in faithfully translating the franchise to 3D.

the best reason to put metroid in first person is because of all the tight corridors and tunnel crawling. that kind of stuff tends to cause trouble for 3rd person cameras. The only other option would be to go the DMC route, and limiting the camera would limit the sense of exploration for sure. With a franchise that was always built on exploration, a restrictive camera would have been very harmfull.

just about any franchise is going to lose a few things and gain a few things in the transfer to 3d. mario lost the linearity and simplicity and gained big massive levels and open ended gameplay, while preserving the basic platforming and atmosphere....

metroid prime preserved...

the exploration
the platforming (to some degree)
the structure
the atmosphere

it lost
some of the acrobatics
the ability to see samus while you play


it gained
the visor mechanics (which have been used very cleverly IMO)
bigger levels
more epic feeling
greater level of immersion due to First person perspective.

thats about as good a transition as you could ever hope for. in fact it's a better transition than mario made IMO, there were fewer things lost.

The metroid franchise was always kind of wierd. It was a sidescroller that didn't have seperate levels, and didn't have "A to B" game structure. A sidescroller with lots of backtracking.. that was unheard of when the first game released and it never really became common even into the 16 bit era. Your character was armed with guns, but it didn't play like a side scrolling shooter, there was lots of platforming, but it wasn't really a platformer. combat was a minor obstacle compared to the real challenge... exploring and learning the world. Transfering it to 3d was gonna be hard, simply because there were no other 2d games with the same kind of gameplay that had been successfully transfered to 3d before, so you had to start from scratch.

some of the same things that seperated the original metroid from other sidescrollers are the things that seperate metroid prime from other FPS games... it's a first person game, with a seamless world instead of seperate levels, you have guns, but shooting doesn't matter and unlike most FPS it's full of backtracking and exploration is way more important than combat. It's an oddball among first person games in the same way that the original metroid was an oddball among sidescrollers.
 
The Metroid Prime series is a very worthy addition to the franchise, IMHO. The dramatic shift in perspective made it inevitable that some key elements of the series would be lost, but at least those live on, and indeed, were perfected in the new GBA games. Being a early doubter, I realized, upon playing the first game for the first time, that the Metroid franchise can and should expand and grow beyond its original mechanics. There's room for both, IMHO.
 
Mejilan said:
The Metroid Prime series is a very worthy addition to the franchise, IMHO. The dramatic shift in perspective made it inevitable that some key elements of the series would be lost, but at least those live on, and indeed, were perfected in the new GBA games. Being a early doubter, I realized, upon playing the first game for the first time, that the Metroid franchise can and should expand and grow beyond its original mechanics. There's room for both, IMHO.

Amen AND amen. :)

If you're a Metroid fan and you don't like the Prime games, fine, don't play them. If you're a Metroid fan and don't like Zero Mission, quit gaming now.

Reminder to the haters: Prime is #3 on gamerankings for numerous reasons.
 
There are things Prime didn't do, sure, but as Krowley pointed out, there's even more that it DID do, and do well, that simply wasn't possible in 2D. The reverse is true, of course--some things work in 2D but are very difficult or maybe impossible to do (well) in 3D.

So if it's cool to bitch that Samus can't do an infinite Space Jump/Screw Attack in Prime, isn't it just as legitimate to bitch that she can't strafe in Fusion? Or that she can't aim except in 45-degree increments?

Different formats, guys. There are pros and cons, and in Prime, the gains easily balance the losses. No game has ever been as immersive or beautiful.


Still, I find it amazing to see some legitimate criticism of Prime. Up till now, I've only seen one (shitty) criticism--from many people. That being "Metroid Prime sucks because I hate the controls", usually followed by "Halo is better". It's nice to see some discussion from fans instead of insecure fanboys.
 
My only problem is the people who hate Prime the most are the ones that were most vocal about how much they hated the fact that Retro went with the 1st Person perspective. So they were ready to hate it before the first screenshot was even released. They were going to hate it no matter what.

Now I can understand people not liking the game, everyone is different and the game did have it's problems, but to say it doesn't play like Metroid just because it doesn't have walljumps (which wasn't in 1 or 2 anyways), or because she didn't jump as high (so the fuck what?!?) is just stupid in my eyes. Exploration is what makes Metroid, not the way she shoots, platforming is what makes Metroid, not the way the platforms are set up or what general direction you travel.
 
Weren't they originally going to make it 3rd person but Miyamoto came in cockslapped everyone because it didn't play right?


MIYAMOTO did that! And I thank him for it because MP1 ruled, and MP2 kinda ruled.
 
To everyone who says the Prime games should have been third-person, you are all idiots. You say it without thinking of the consequences of what would happen if the game really was in third-person. Think about what would happen if it was:

- No more visor effects. Come on, people, the X-Ray visor and the Echo visor are friggin' sweet. It wouldn't have the same effect if you just apply the visor to the whole screen if it was a behind-the-back camera. Which leads to...
- Camera issues. If you keep the visor effects, there wouldn't be any more buttons/sticks on the GC controller to move the camera around. Even if there were, people would complain about the camera controls in one way or another. If you dump the visors, you've basically destroyed most of the new Metroid stuff and gameplay mechanics that the Prime games brought to the table.
- Still can't freely strafe. There's only one C-Stick on the controller. You can only use it for one thing, visor selection, camera controls or look/strafe functionality. The lock-on function lets you strafe around targets anyway, and you really only need to do so when shooting at something.

The danger of doing a game like Metroid in third-person is that it might become more of an action/shooter than what it was originally intended to be, a spelunking adventure game. The best example of this is Castlevania. The 3D Castlevanias are definitely not as good as the 2D games. In fact, a lot of 3D reincarnations of 2D games aren't as good. Think there's a reason for that?

The Metroid Prime games the way they are now are absolutely amazing. First-person works great. That's the way the next game is going to be too, so either learn to like it or miss out (and/or,download Super Metroid on Revolution).
 
Tony HoTT said:
Weren't they originally going to make it 3rd person but Miyamoto came in cockslapped everyone because it didn't play right?


MIYAMOTO did that! And I thank him for it because MP1 ruled, and MP2 kinda ruled.
No, miyamoto came in and cockslapped everyone because the game played sloppily, not because of the perspective or anything.
 
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