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Mexico threatens lawsuits over Guard at the border.

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Ripclawe

Banned
Does everyone know how to game the American court system?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/05/16/mexico.immigration.ap/index.html

CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico (AP) -- Mexico warned Tuesday it would file lawsuits in U.S. courts if National Guard troops detain migrants on the border and some officials said they fear the crackdown will force illegal crossers into more perilous areas to avoid detection.

President Bush announced Monday that he will send 6,000 National Guard troops to the 2,000-mile (3,200-kilometer) U.S.-Mexico border, but said the troops will provide intelligence and surveillance support to U.S. Border Patrol agents and will not catch and detain illegal immigrants.

"If there is a real wave of rights abuses, if we see the National Guard starting to directly participate in detaining people ... we would immediately start filing lawsuits through our consulates," Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez said in an interview with a Mexico City radio station.

Mexican officials worry the crackdown will lead to immigrant deaths. Since the U.S. toughened security at crossing spots in Texas and California in 1994, immigrants have flooded Arizona's hard-to-patrol desert and deaths have increased.

Immigrant support groups estimate 500 people died trying to cross the border in 2005. The Border Patrol reported 473 deaths as of September 30.

In Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, Julieta Nunez Gonzalez, the local representative of Mexico's National Immigration Institute, said Tuesday she will ask the Mexican government to send a protection force, Grupo Beta, to remote sections of the border.

Sending the National Guard "will not stop the flow of migrants. To the contrary, it will probably go up," as people try to get into the U.S. with hopes of applying for a possible amnesty program, Nunez said.

Waiting to cross in Ciudad Juarez was Juan Canche, 36, who traveled 2,000 kilometers (1,243 miles) to the border from the southern Mexican town of Izamal, where he had left his wife, five children and mother.

"Even with a lot of guards and soldiers in place, we have to jump that puddle," said Canche, referring to the drought-stricken Rio Grande, dividing Ciudad Juarez and El Paso, Texas. "My family is hungry and there is no work in my land. I have to risk it."

Mexican newspapers Tuesday characterized the National Guard plan as a hardening of the U.S. position, and some criticized President Vicente Fox for not taking a stronger stand, though Fox called Bush on Sunday to express his concerns.

Fox's spokesman, Ruben Aguilar, said Tuesday that Mexico accepted Bush's statement that the Guard troops didn't imply a militarization of the area, and that Mexico remained "optimistic" that the U.S. Senate would approve an immigration reform "in the interests of both countries."

He noted Bush expressed support for the legalization of some immigrants and the implementation of a guest worker program.

"This is definitely not a militarization," said Aguilar, who also dismissed as "absolutely false" rumors that Mexico would send its own troops to the border in response.

Critics have accused Bush of using the plan to win support for immigration reform from U.S. conservatives, who are more interested in tightening border security.

Bush said it was a stopgap measure while the Border Patrol builds up its resources to more effectively secure the border.

Presidential hopeful Felipe Calderon of Fox's National Action Party issued a statement that the military presence would endanger migrants without stopping them.

"These measures have been proven mistaken. They increase the social and human costs for migrants and only benefit criminal groups that make money on the hopes and suffering of those looking for an opportunity," Calderon said.

Salvadoran President Tony Saca said he was worried that there could be an increase in abuses against immigrants because National Guard troops are trained to handle natural disasters and wars.

Along the border in Nuevo Laredo, across from Laredo, Texas, Honduran Antonio Auriel said he was determined to make it into the United States.

"Soldiers on the border? That won't stop me," he said. "I'll swim the river and jump the wall. I'm going to arrive in the United States."
 

909er

Member
Ripclawe said:

Abuse by American troops? Is that president serious? Our border ppl half the time end up saving the lives of border crossers, who have no water and are stuck in the desert. Unlike the Mexican troops who rape, torture, murder, rob and otherwise do horrible things to illegal immigrants.

Can't we sue Mexico for the social cost of having 13 million of their citizens in our borders, largely illegally?
 

strikeselect

You like me, you really really like me!
"Soldiers on the border? That won't stop me," he said. "I'll swim the river and jump the wall. I'm going to arrive in the United States."

:lol

Let's just invade Mexico and make it the 51st state already.
 

Silent Death

lemme get one or two licks
909er said:
Abuse by American troops? Is that president serious? Our border ppl half the time end up saving the lives of border crossers, who have no water and are stuck in the desert. Unlike the Mexican troops who rape, torture, murder, rob and otherwise do horrible things to illegal immigrants.

Can't we sue Mexico for the social cost of having 13 million of their citizens in our borders, largely illegally?




:) I was going to say the same thing can all those Central American countries sue Mexico for the shooting their citizens as they cross over into Mexico? This is fucking getting redicules. I'm as liberal as it comes but shit man how the hell you gonna sue someone for patroling their own border?
 

Ripclawe

Banned
jamesinclair said:
Wheose ass are you pulling this from?
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache...+immigration+laws+ap&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
Google Cache of the AP story.

TULTITLAN, Mexico (AP) -- Considered felons by the government, these migrants fear detention, rape and robbery. Police and soldiers hunt them down at railroads, bus stations and fleabag hotels. Sometimes they are deported; more often officers simply take their money.

While migrants in the United States have held huge demonstrations in recent weeks, the hundreds of thousands of undocumented Central Americans in Mexico suffer mostly in silence.

And though Mexico demands humane treatment for its citizens who migrate to the U.S., regardless of their legal status, Mexico provides few protections for migrants on its own soil. The issue simply isn't on the country's political agenda, perhaps because migrants make up only 0.5 percent of the population, or about 500,000 people - compared with 12 percent in the United States.

The level of brutality Central American migrants face in Mexico was apparent Monday, when police conducting a raid for undocumented migrants near a rail yard outside Mexico City shot to death a local man, apparently because his dark skin and work clothes made officers think he was a migrant.




Virginia Sanchez, who lives near the railroad tracks that carry Central Americans north to the U.S. border, said such shootings in Tultitlan are common.

"At night, you hear the gunshots, and it's the judiciales (state police) chasing the migrants," she said. "It's not fair to kill these people. It's not fair in the United States and it's not fair here."

Undocumented Central American migrants complain much more about how they are treated by Mexican officials than about authorities on the U.S. side of the border, where migrants may resent being caught but often praise the professionalism of the agents scouring the desert for their trail.

"If you're carrying any money, they take it from you - federal, state, local police, all of them," said Carlos Lopez, a 28-year-old farmhand from Guatemala crouching in a field near the tracks in Tultitlan, waiting to climb onto a northbound freight train.
 

Crow357

Member
Cerrius said:
:lol

Let's just invade Mexico and make it the 51st state already.

Yeah, F them! I'm sooooo tired of this B.S. Line up automatic weapons that shot anything that moves.
 

Drensch

Member
Imagine if Mexico militarized their border, republicans would be crawling over each other to call it an act of war.
 

neoanarch

Member
I still don't understand the need to use National guard troops. Whats wrong with hiring more Border Patrol agents?

But yeah I agree if mexico where to do this everyone would be calling for bombings
 

HomShaBom

Banned
neoanarch said:
I still don't understand the need to use National guard troops. Whats wrong with hiring more Border Patrol agents?

But yeah I agree if mexico where to do this everyone would be calling for bombings

Uh no. Mexico wouldn't do anything militaristic on the border because they know they would get stomped.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
neoanarch said:
I still don't understand the need to use National guard troops. Whats wrong with hiring more Border Patrol agents?
Nothing, except that it would require some form of fiscal responsibility from the GOP leadership running the country (see: this).
 
neoanarch said:
I still don't understand the need to use National guard troops. Whats wrong with hiring more Border Patrol agents?

But yeah I agree if mexico where to do this everyone would be calling for bombings

Bush has to look like a bad ass
 

WalkMan

Banned
Crow357 said:
Yeah, F them! I'm sooooo tired of this B.S. Line up automatic weapons that shot anything that moves.
F that shit. You saw how much it costs to try and fix Iraq. Againt I'll bring up my plan, we basically nuke the entire border and send Mexico into the Pacific Ocean to be their own island.

neoanarch said:
I still don't understand the need to use National guard troops. Whats wrong with hiring more Border Patrol agents?

But yeah I agree if mexico where to do this everyone would be calling for bombings
Because then we have to hire Illegal Immigrants to take up the positions. :lol
 

Newzboyz99

Losers! My wife has me on lock!
I am sure the US wouldn't have a problem with Mexican troops on the border partroling to keep illegals from crossing into the USA...or are you referring to the flood of American's pouring into Mexico?:lol
 

strikeselect

You like me, you really really like me!
WalkMan said:
F that shit. You saw how much it costs to try and fix Iraq. Againt I'll bring up my plan, we basically nuke the entire border and send Mexico into the Pacific Ocean to be their own island.


xinsrc_032020223180393271552.jpg

"I like your style"
 

909er

Member
jamesinclair said:
Wheose ass are you pulling this from?

http://www.azstarnet.com/opinion/125360.php

The latest AP story indicates, however, that Mexican politicians expect the United States to meet a standard for treatment of illegal immigrants that Mexico itself does not adhere to.
And that's putting it mildly.
While many Mexicans vociferously denounce the criminalization of Mexicans living illegally in the United States, Mexico itself classifies those who enter its borders illegally as felons subject to deportation or two years in prison.
In fact, illegal immigrants in Mexico are treated so poorly that it's hardly any wonder that Central Americans try to get out of Mexico and into the United States as quickly as possible. At least if they're caught here there's much less of a chance they'll be robbed, raped, beaten or killed.
Wednesday's story said, "Undocumented Central American migrants complain much more about how they are treated by Mexican officials than about authorities on the U.S. side of the border, where migrants may resent being caught but often praise the professionalism of the agents scouring the desert for their trail."
Illegal immigrants from Guatemala and other Central American nations told reporter Mark Stevenson that federal and local police in Mexico would typically take all their money and then set them free.
 
"This is definitely not a militarization," said Aguilar, who also dismissed as "absolutely false" rumors that Mexico would send its own troops to the border in response.

One might ask why they aren't planning to send troops to the border in response. Is it because Mexico is more inclined to peace than the U.S.? Or perhaps because troops are already there helping people enter the U.S. illegally?

Aye, 'tis the latter:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43754
WASHINGTON – The Mexican army is escorting those attempting to cross over the U.S. border illegally – including known drug-runners – to areas not patrolled by the Minuteman Project near Naco, Ariz., say Border Patrol sources and other officials including a U.S. congressman.

You might be thinking, "Hmm, that's kinda naughty." And perhaps it is, but they've done worse:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/3/7/134033.shtml

The real question is why the U.S. actually puts up with this shit. The issue of mexican immigration is shown to be a blatantly hostile force intent on conquering portions of America through essentially non-violent means (as evidenced by all the La Raza and Atzlan crap). However, time and again we see actual military forces entering our nation, which certainly is a bit odd. Yet Bush cares not. So Bush wants to send a wee little National Guard force down to the borders to act solely as lookout? Aye, apparently sitting around being a grouch (Saddam) is the more war-worthy offense than constant invasive forces and psychotic rhetoric (Fox) is but laughable.
 

Newzboyz99

Losers! My wife has me on lock!
So let me get this straight...the piss poor mexican immigrants and Fox and are a bigger threat to the USA than Saddam was? Please tell me this is not real.
 

909er

Member
Newzboyz99 said:
So let me get this straight...the piss poor mexican immigrants and Fox and are a bigger threat to the USA than Saddam was? Please tell me this is not real.

Saddam sat on his ass and didn't really much shit to us after the last beat down. Only if you buy into the Bush administration's BS would you consider Saddam a threat to America.

The Mexican border on the other hand, allows tens of thousands of criminals to enter our country, not to mention the unregulated flow of millions of workers. How do you think gangs like MS-13 got so big in America?
 

WalkMan

Banned
909er said:
Saddam sat on his ass and didn't really much shit to us after the last beat down. Only if you buy into the Bush administration's BS would you consider Saddam a threat to America.

The Mexican border on the other hand, allows tens of thousands of criminals to enter our country, not to mention the unregulated flow of millions of workers. How do you think gangs like MS-13 got so big in America?
Sucks to be living in the South, War-Free in WA :)
 
Newzboyz99 said:
So let me get this straight...the piss poor mexican immigrants and Fox and are a bigger threat to the USA than Saddam was? Please tell me this is not real.

I wouldn't say mexicans are a bigger threat than Saddam, but rather that they are a threat and Saddam never was.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
Cerrius said:
how dare you forget tacos
And god bless mexico for their rice. Mexican rice ftw! I'll run to the border for that shit.
 
In short: Fuck Mexico.

In long:

One of their biggest financial incentives are the US dollars brought back from relatives to their families in Mexico. So no more Mexicans crossing = less US currency being sent = less money for Mexico. Bottom line. There's no other reason. Well, Fox can state some but this is the real reason.

This is little different from the US protecting their interests by CIA backed coups in South America. Mexico is making sure the US can keep open borders and therefore, more US dollars. Fuck this shit. If those assholes want more money, they can start builing up industries of their own. Even with Mexico being quite poor, I'm sure they have billions in capital to hand out to start and create new industries and Mexican jobs. They're taking the lazy way out by hoping their citizens will send millions of dollars back.
 

MC Safety

Member
Mexican immigration into America is an escape valve. What would Mexico do if its largely disenfranchised and unemployed population stayed within its borders? What would it do for Mexico, too?

Seal the borders and Mexico might actually have to address some of its very real social and economic problems.
 
Wow, it´s really interesting how much ignorance you can read in such a small thread. Hopefully some day you educate yourselves a bit more and avoid looking like that. Oh, and really, if you think we are even CLOSE to being as bad economically as Irak, you have to be insane...and yes, we produce many more things than tacos. :rolleyes:
 
Logan Cano said:
Wow, it´s really interesting how much ignorance you can read in such a small thread. Hopefully some day you educate yourselves a bit more and avoid looking like that. Oh, and really, if you think we are even CLOSE to being as bad economically as Irak, you have to be insane...and yes, we produce many more things than tacos. :rolleyes:


then why do you have 12 million of your poorest citizens here in the USA? where is the gov't?
 

Yamauchi

Banned
Here's my plan:

1. Build time machine
2. Go back to late 2002.
3. Convince Bush that Mexico has oil and/or WMDs.
4. Invade and annex Mexico.
5. Spend the $300 billion we've wasted in Iraq on developing Mexico.
6. By 2010 we'd have a population of more than 400 million and a GDP of perhaps $20 trillion.
7. Make me king.
 
Teh Hamburglar said:
How can you sue a country for exercising its right to secure its borders?

On theory. Still, securing your border means that you consider the neighboring country to be a threat, so it´s a politically risky move. If we also movilized our troops to the border, americans could consider it an act of war.

Hopefully things work out well for everyone in the end, wars are idiotic.
 

WalkMan

Banned
Logan Cano said:
Wow, it´s really interesting how much ignorance you can read in such a small thread. Hopefully some day you educate yourselves a bit more and avoid looking like that. Oh, and really, if you think we are even CLOSE to being as bad economically as Irak, you have to be insane...and yes, we produce many more things than tacos. :rolleyes:
Of course you guys are doing economically better than a fictional nation.
 
Logan Cano said:
On theory. Still, securing your border means that you consider the neighboring country to be a threat, so it´s a politically risky move. If we also movilized our troops to the border, americans could consider it an act of war.

Hopefully things work out well for everyone in the end, wars are idiotic.

As I pointed out, Mexico already does have troops on the border, and indeed uses them to assist in the violation of U.S. law. If we had any balls, we'd have declared war awhile ago.
 
WalkMan said:
Of course you guys are doing economically better than a fictional nation.

Duh, sorry, wrote it in spanish.:)

Arfaestnes, I´m confident there is not a heavy deployment of our troops to the US border, at least nowhere near as heavy as the one the US is sending.
 

Wii-za

Member
This is just insane...

I'm sorry but you people talk like Mexico was the oh horror....

As a Mexican I'm offended by all this commentaries....

I ask a moderator to come here...

Sexual, RACIAL, or ETHNIC slurs will not be tolerated in any form and are bannable on the first offense.

Sirs....please behave....
 

Oldschoolgamer

The physical form of blasphemy
This is about one of the stupidest cases ever. They are going to take us to court, because we are getting ready to cut off their free money? What type of shit, is this?
 

909er

Member
Logan Cano said:
On theory. Still, securing your border means that you consider the neighboring country to be a threat, so it´s a politically risky move. If we also movilized our troops to the border, americans could consider it an act of war.

Hopefully things work out well for everyone in the end, wars are idiotic.

This isn't just a few illegals. Right now, the US hosts 12 million Mexicans here illegally. That's like 10% of their population.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
The latest AP story indicates, however, that Mexican politicians expect the United States to meet a standard for treatment of illegal immigrants that Mexico itself does not adhere to.
And that's putting it mildly.
While many Mexicans vociferously denounce the criminalization of Mexicans living illegally in the United States, Mexico itself classifies those who enter its borders illegally as felons subject to deportation or two years in prison.
In fact, illegal immigrants in Mexico are treated so poorly that it's hardly any wonder that Central Americans try to get out of Mexico and into the United States as quickly as possible. At least if they're caught here there's much less of a chance they'll be robbed, raped, beaten or killed.
Wednesday's story said, "Undocumented Central American migrants complain much more about how they are treated by Mexican officials than about authorities on the U.S. side of the border, where migrants may resent being caught but often praise the professionalism of the agents scouring the desert for their trail."
Illegal immigrants from Guatemala and other Central American nations told reporter Mark Stevenson that federal and local police in Mexico would typically take all their money and then set them free.

Please defend/rationalize.

Logan? Wii-za?

Anyone?

Imagine if Mexico militarized their border, republicans would be crawling over each other to call it an act of war.

I'm surprised Mexico hasn't put troops on the border yet. The next question is how are they going to get rid of the 12 million illegal Americans that have entered thier country.
 
Cooter said:
Please defend/rationalize.

Logan? Wii-za?

Anyone?



I'm surprised Mexico hasn't put troops on the border yet. The next question is how are they going to get rid of the 12 million illegal Americans that have entered thier country.

Well, I believe those reports are exagerated, but I have to admit I have heard of a few cases of mistreated centroamerican immigrants. Still, they´re not plentyfull (nowhere near the scale of the ones happening in the north american border, not that that makes it right in either case) and they don´t stay here, they head for the US. Well, that or they stay in the southern parts of the country and join the "mara salvatruchas", a pretty nasty gang that deal in drug trafficking and other "neat" activities.

Oh, and if you think the US border patrol treat immigrants gently, think again. It´s quite typical to hear of immigrants getting shot, mistreated, tortured while trying to cross the border, it´s a really difficult thing to accomplish.
 
"Soldiers on the border? That won't stop me," he said. "I'll swim the river and jump the wall. I'm going to arrive in the United States."

Now thats a person with a solid plan :lol :lol :lol

I would do it too
 
I'm sorry but you people talk like Mexico was the oh horror....

As a Mexican I'm offended by all this commentaries....

Uh, you do realize that millions of your fellow citizens would rather risk dying in a desert than staying in your godforsaken country. Sounds pretty horrible to me.
 

909er

Member
Logan Cano said:
Well, I believe those reports are exagerated, but I have to admit I have heard of a few cases of mistreated centroamerican immigrants. Still, they´re not plentyfull (nowhere near the scale of the ones happening in the north american border, not that that makes it right in either case) and they don´t stay here, they head for the US. Well, that or they stay in the southern parts of the country and join the "mara salvatruchas", a pretty nasty gang that deal in drug trafficking and other "neat" activities.

Oh, and if you think the US border patrol treat immigrants gently, think again. It´s quite typical to hear of immigrants getting shot, mistreated, tortured while trying to cross the border, it´s a really difficult thing to accomplish.

I hear about those stories too. Only it's the coyotes doing it, not the Border Patrol. I've heard quite a bit from my friend, formerly an illegal immigrant, he says all the Border Patrol does is ship you back to Mexico, and ppl just cross again.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
Well, I believe those reports are exagerated, but I have to admit I have heard of a few cases of mistreated centroamerican immigrants. Still, they´re not plentyfull (nowhere near the scale of the ones happening in the north american border, not that that makes it right in either case) and they don´t stay here, they head for the US. Well, that or they stay in the southern parts of the country and join the "mara salvatruchas", a pretty nasty gang that deal in drug trafficking and other "neat" activities.

Oh, and if you think the US border patrol treat immigrants gently, think again. It´s quite typical to hear of immigrants getting shot, mistreated, tortured while trying to cross the border, it´s a really difficult thing to accomplish.

Exaggerated? Of course they are. The US border Agents are much worse. This is shocking coming from your mouth. Now they are torturing them? I must say, that's a new one. This is pathetic. The Mexican Government and population in general are hypocrites. This is really frustrating.
 
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