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[GaimeGuy]

"Can we just fucking assimilate with Mexico already? Christ. What the fuck does that country do anyway besides make babies?"

Thats not rascist at all.

Yes because Mexico is a race.

Everyone knows that the living conditions in Mexico are fucking SHIT, that its industry sucks, and that there's huge drug and gang problems there.

People are sick of this government permitting Mexico to dump their shit on us.

They are sick of illegal mexican immigrants taking american jobs by settling for slave wages. Furthermore, most Americans (myself included) are disgusted by the fact that these illegals settle for these piss-poor wages; IMO, it shows they have no self-respect. They seem to be perfectly happy with getting treated like shit in the work environment, yet they demand amnesty and full citizenship when they broke the law in the first place!

Let's put it this way:

There are an estimated 12 million illegals in the United State. The vast majority of these come from Mexico. I don't know the specific numbers, but lets say 10 million come from Mexico

Most estimates point towards a US Population of ~300 million as of 2006, as far as I know.

Now, let's put these numbers in perspective:

If the above figures are approximately correct, then one out of every twenty-five people living in the United States is here illegaly. One out of every 25 people in the USA is leeching resources from social services supported by and paid for by the 24 out of 25 residents that are legal and that pay their taxes.

Also, one out of every 30 people in the USA is a Mexican that crossed the border illegally to get into the USA.

96% of the people living in the US shouldn't have to pay for the 4% of people in the US that shouldn't even be here.

I have no problem with foreigners, but with these illegals that break the law to get here, don't pay taxes, leech resources from social services, take precious jobs by accepting low wages and display a complete lack of self-respet, and then have the audacity to demand AMNESTY? They aren't even willing to demand higher-paying jobs! Why should we give full citizenship rights to people who deliberately broke the law to get here, continue to break the law while they live here, and further propagate the breaking of the law by allowing themselves to receive substandard living wages?

All I can say is, fuck the illegal immigrants. Show some self-respect by not accepting shit wages and following the system like the other 285 million people living in the US.

this may come off as ethnocentric, but when you have 10% of one country's citizens illegally crossing into another country, it's hard not to be, especially with all the massive mexican gangs spread out across the US.

 

[jamesinclair]

Yes because Mexico is a race.

Everyone knows that the living conditions in Mexico are fucking SHIT, that its industry sucks, and that there's huge drug and gang problems there.

.

Stopped reading there. Ever been to Mexico? Every left the state youre in right now? Conditions are better than in most of the world.

You do realise the drug problem there is ebcause of the US right? Where are the consumers?

 

[GaimeGuy]

Stopped reading there. Ever been to Mexico? Every left the state youre in right now? Conditions are better than in most of the world.

You do realise the drug problem there is ebcause of the US right? Where are the consumers?

If the conditions in mexico are so great, then why the hell has over 10% of its population fled to the US?

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Hate to be rude, but the people that have made half of LA into a warzone are largely Mexican, not Ecuadorians and Salvadorians.

i meant the menbers of the maratruchas and MS-13. doesnt matter i suppose.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Stopped reading there. Ever been to Mexico? Every left the state youre in right now? Conditions are better than in most of the world.

You do realise the drug problem there is because of the US right? Where are the consumers?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol *takes a breath* :lol :lol

 

[jamesinclair]

If the conditions in mexico are so great, then why the hell has over 10% of its population fled to the US?

I never said theyre "so great". Comparativly, conditions in the US are better. But the conditions in the US are better than in 99% of the world. Im not saying 100% because the swedes will come in and complain.

Put Mexico in Africa, and it would be the target of massive immigration.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I never said theyre "so great". Comparativly, conditions in the US are better. But the conditions in the US are better than in 99% of the world. Im not saying 100% because the swedes will come in and complain.

Put Mexico in Africa, and it would be the target of massive immigration.

yeah, well. it's in the western hemisphere so it better get it's act togheter.

 

[jamesinclair]

yeah, well. it's in the western hemisphere so it better get it's act togheter.

Haiti, Guatemala, El Salvador, Cuba, Honduras, Jamaica, Belize, Ecuador, Bolivia, Peru, Nordeste, Suriname, Paraguay and Trinidad and Tobago are examples of countries you may have forgotten are also in the western hemisphere.

Or have you not been around Port-au-Prince?

Hard to forget if its not on FoxNews every day.

Its not just Cubans that arrive on florida's beaches every day.

Go ahead, give port au prince a google image search

First page Then search mexico city

 

[soulja224466]

so what exactly is your point?

 

[Phoenix]

are you kidding? you dont think 12 million illegals are not a problem?

I think its important to define what really is a "problem" if you're going to go down that road. What is the real problem, that the immigrants are here working or that they are a drain on the social systems. I ask because if you REALLY look at Bush's proposal for a guest worker program - the people get to continue to work, they get fined, and they remain a drain on the same social programs. So again, what is the real problem that we're trying to solve and are we actually solving it as opposed to providing the whole smoke and mirrors facade that has been done time and time again everytime its time to 'bring out the vote'.

a compromised border?

Define compromised? Would it be any less compromised if people came across on a tour bus and simply didn't leave? What if they came over as a student and didn't leave? What about THIS situation makes the border so compromised. I have a newsflash for some people out there, people are walking across the northern border. Refugees get here by boat as well. People get shipped in by container. People get here by private plane. You can't wall off the United States. The very notion of it borders on the absurd. The country is too freaking big. You'll bankrupt yourself trying to prevent people from coming in, because there will ALWAYS be ways to get in through out thousands of miles of borders.

and what about long time legal residents (like yours truly) who play by the rules and other people who are doing things by the book, it sets a bad precedent any way you slice it.

Oh lets cut through the primetime/60 minutes crap shall we. In no way possible are legal residents or immigrants in ANY way in the same boat as illegal immigrants. The legal facilities available to legal citizens are entirely different from illegals. Should they be deported if you can catch them - sure, but only if you can ensure they won't just come back across the border 2 weeks later. Our borders are porous because we're a big country. That's not to say that we should just throw up our hands, but that we need to be realistic with what we will actually be able to do here. None of the proposals on the books will result in 12 million less immigrants in our borders!

when i worked for a polling company (a major one, i'd rather not say who) for two years, that's all anyone would ever talk about. the illegal immigration. it's just now that politicos are finally doing something, a half-assed job to be sure but hey, better to do it today than never.

Yeah, that's what I hear a lot of people say... until the election is over, the issue is buried in red tape and jack shit has actually happened. Where is the Phase 2 investigation of 9/11 intelligence? What about that much talked about amendment for gay marriage? What about all the other bullshit that they whip you up in a frenzy about - until they use you like a condom and then discard you on the side of the road after they've sealed the deal?

Its all bullshit! I can't believe peeople can't see that they're being taken for a ride AGAIN!

 

[Phoenix]

The bill proposed to make illegals felons which led to the protests which led to mexicans waving mexican flags and demanding to be us citizens which led to americans getting pissed and saying "learn english and come here legally you criminals."

Yeah, but if there really are 12 million illegals here (and I'm not sure how we can get an accurate number of people who are supposed to be 'living in the shadows'), how would making them felons solve the problem. Immediately every prison in the country would be full and we'd still have over 11 million illegals here waiting for their turn to tie up the court system. The problem with that approach is that it really isn't practical if the numbers that people purport are anywhere near accurate. People talk about the drain on social systems by these immigrants - hell imagine having to incarcerate even 10% of that number of people.... from taxpayer dollars. Again, doesn't solve the problem.

 

[Phoenix]

Bush has been losing a lot of ground post-9/11 from his base because he has done little on the immigration and border-security issues, and what he *has* done--or at least has said about the issue--only pisses them off more. This /has been/ an issue, but now needs to be addressed by the Administration because of their low standing in the polls, again directly related to the loss of support from his base.

Right. He needed an issue to get his base up-in-arms (much like Sonny Purdue here in Georgia about having a vote on keeping the confederate flag as the state flag... yeah, never mentioned again), his minders looked at the hot button issue that would be closest to terrorism that would get people thinking irrationally and self-centric and rolled with it. Its how they have always FUUTA time and time again. So we see it coming, recognize that we're about to be used like a project hoe and bend over and say "thank you sir may I have another".

 

[Wii-za]

Geez....I leave for a couple of hours and you guys made a mess....ok here I come.

First of all, if any single one of you believe that "12 millions Mexicans" fled from Mexico to the United States you are just plain crazy...That number is really extrapolated...

According to tha latest studies, 11 milions Mexicans are living in the United States right now, HALF LEGALLY and HALF ILLEGALY...that brings the total amount of illegals to around 5.5 millions. Also, the same study states that around 400,000 people TRY to cross the border each year...Mexicans, Central Americans and South Americans (Yes people, believe it or not there are more countries south of the Equator).

And I want to make the position clear:
Am I against my people going illegaly to the United State? YES
Am I against the US Border Patrol "chasing" my own countryman? YES
Am I happy with US guys paying sh*t to Mexican workers? OF COURSE NOT
Do I think that my President (instead of talking about suing) must get to work? YES
Are Mexico "living conditions...f*****g SHIT"? HELL NO Maybe we are not at first-world level but it looks like you think that we are all in the street looking for water to drink...

Oh and my favorite....
Is the US government any better than our? Well, I think that that last question is pretty obvious....when your own Capitol guys don't know your own laws I think you guys have serious issues...when you can't end a war that started without any sense...we are not the worst out there...

I think it all comes to this...if they are illegal dont hire them. Just call the patrol and put them back from where they came from. Easy huh? Or you guys want our hands labor for free? Gimme a break...

Oh and finally, to answer someones question. I live in Mexico, and I have never been there illegaly...

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

Sucks to be living in the South, War-Free in WA

at least until Canada pisses us off.

 

[Logan Cano]

Yes because Mexico is a race.

Everyone knows that the living conditions in Mexico are fucking SHIT, that its industry sucks, and that there's huge drug and gang problems there.

People are sick of this government permitting Mexico to dump their shit on us.

Like I said, educate yourself before making calims that make you look stupid. Living conditions are FAR from being shit, heck, in big cities such as Monterrey, Puebla, Guadalajara, Nuevo Leon and many more, you´ll find nicer living conditions than cities such as NY. Industry, while obviously not a first world country, is very active, even if salaries are not what one would like. Heck, due to the continuous growth in the automotive industry, there´s around 33 or so different makes of cars, many of them with factories in this country.

Our problem basically is that wealth is not well distributed. There´s around 30 million people living in poor conditions, and that´s the kind of people going to the US. Also, by poor I don´t mean your typical "waaaa, I can´t afford a fridge, so I´m poor" US poor guy, these people don´t even have solid roofs over their heads and make less than $2 or $3 dollars a day.

That´s what the government has been trying to solve, but it takes time and haven´t been effective at it, so they prefer to take a chance and leave for a chance of a better life. Also, really why bitch about them taking your jobs when most of the times they take jobs americans consider beneath them? They´ve become part of the economy, wether you like it or not.

In any case, Mexico is FAR from a hell hole. Hollywood likes to portray it as such, but it really is far from the truth.

 

[909er]

I'm not going to dispute that Mexico isn't a shithole. It's actually got around the 10th highest GDP in the world, and though crime is comparatively high even in comparision to US cities, the major non border cities and travel destinations rival that of any 1st world nation. Mexico's biggest problem is that the disparity between the haves and have nots are ridiculous. While Mexico City may be nice, go to one of the southern states dominated by the indigenous ppl, and you'll be seen villages that rival any thirdworld shantytown. Thats where teh millions of ppl are coming from.

And there are many studies. Some state that 800,000 ppl enter the US through Mexico illegally every year. I could throw the high end of the figures, others can throw out the low ends. The fact is, hundreds of thousands of Mexicans are coming into the US illegally every year, and there are millions here illegally, and yes, straining our resources. In states like Texas or California, they make up such a percentage of the population that the strain becomes ridiculous. Someone stated that 1 in 25 ppl in America are here illegally, and that the other 24 pay for it. That's not how it works, since the federal gov't barely helps out states. It's more like 9 ppl out of 10 in CA paying for 1. The strain is huge on Americans in border states.

BTW, when I worked as an EMT, I got alot of "John Does". The medical system in America is obligated to treat patiends, so if the patients chooses not to identify themselves (or more accurately, if the hospital is unable to get ID on them, as is the case with illegals), they don't have to pay. There's nothing that can be done.

 

[Drensch]

Looks lke Phoenix can handle all the "arguments" thrown at him solo.

 

[APF]

Right. He needed an issue to get his base up-in-arms

Incorrect. His base has already been up in arms about his lack of a coherent position and effective action on the issue, for many years now, and dwindling ratings from his core supporters is one of the major reasons he's been hemorrhaging in the polls, has become an albatross to his party, and can't get much if any of his overall agenda accomplished.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Like I said, educate yourself before making calims that make you look stupid. Living conditions are FAR from being shit, heck, in big cities such as Monterrey, Puebla, Guadalajara, Nuevo Leon and many more, you´ll find nicer living conditions than cities such as NY. Industry, while obviously not a first world country, is very active, even if salaries are not what one would like. Heck, due to the continuous growth in the automotive industry, there´s around 33 or so different makes of cars, many of them with factories in this country.

Our problem basically is that wealth is not well distributed. There´s around 30 million people living in poor conditions, and that´s the kind of people going to the US. Also, by poor I don´t mean your typical "waaaa, I can´t afford a fridge, so I´m poor" US poor guy, these people don´t even have solid roofs over their heads and make less than $2 or $3 dollars a day.

That´s what the government has been trying to solve, but it takes time and haven´t been effective at it, so they prefer to take a chance and leave for a chance of a better life. Also, really why bitch about them taking your jobs when most of the times they take jobs americans consider beneath them? They´ve become part of the economy, wether you like it or not.

In any case, Mexico is FAR from a hell hole. Hollywood likes to portray it as such, but it really is far from the truth.

See, the thing is, people consider these jobs beneath them BECAUSE they pay such shit wages, most likely. Even if that isn't the only reason, it MUST be one of the biggest reasons. No one wants to take a job that pays less than what the government says should be the bare minimum wage (And even the bare minimum wage is pretty bad, to be honest).

These illegals take these jobs for either one of two reasons (or both)
A) It's a job that pays much better than the 2-3 dollars per day they get in Mexico
B) The employers of these jobs are willing to do under-the-table deals so that these illegal immigrants can get their paychecks while remaining relatively safe from government detection.

If they came here legally they wouldn't have to settle for sub-standard US conditions. There would be a lot more competition in the jobs they're taking up because, being here legally, they'd actually have to be paid decent wages, and other people would actually want to have the jobs.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Another good solution is to raise the minimum wage up to $7-8 an hour. Meatpackers, fruit farms, all thrive off of cheap, illegal labor. By having such a high wage amount, these corporations will not try to exploit Mexicans and Salvadorans.

However, the border still needs to be enforced because if there's no jobs for them, then thousands into millions will cross and then be unemployed. That will create a mess of new problems thats arguably worse than whats going on right now.

 

[APF]

Another good solution is to raise the minimum wage up to $7-8 an hour. Meatpackers, fruit farms, all thrive off of cheap, illegal labor. By having such a high wage amount, these corporations will not try to exploit Mexicans and Salvadorans.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm. Wouldn't that just drive up demand for cheaper, illegal labor?

 

[Matt_C]

So let me get this straight...the piss poor mexican immigrants and Fox and are a bigger threat to the USA than Saddam was? Please tell me this is not real.

Well if you consider a government who doesn't crack down on drug cartels and gangs and would much rather has her (as in country) own citizens fled the country in a thinly vailed attempt to reclaim a lost state that is rightfully lost in a war as not a bigger threat than an impotent dictator with long gone missles; then you clearly lost your mind.

I am concerned if the guard attacks our Minutemen or fight against the wrong Mexicans and not the drug cartel runners or the corrupt government.

In the future, G.R.A.W. will be a relatity but hopefully we will fight the corrupt and not those who support reform. By then, I would be seriously consider enlisting if I guaranteed to protect my own borders and not across oceans.

Can we just fucking assimilate with Mexico already? Christ. What the fuck does that country do anyway besides make babies?

If I were decendant from Hispanic/Latinos who were American citizens since the independance of Texas and annexation of the Southwest; I would be seriously offended but that picture. There are some people who are from Hispanic decent who were long time or recently legal citizens who contribute to the US culture and gave the burrito long before Mexico's/South America's 20/21st century border crossing problems. Yes, there are some former Mexicans who supported the independance of Texas and became Texas citizens, who embraced the rule of law.

The burrito is American as apple pie and chop suey.