MGS3 is a fucking masterpiece
- Thread starter TheDraconian
- Start date
KOMANI
KOMANI
MGS3 doesn't retcon's MGS2's mystery about the Patriots, but it does retcon other established facts from previous games. The series kept retconning itself as it went on. https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Retcon
Last edited:
Mozzarella
Member
Its great, it doesnt have the best story in the franchise or the best cinematics or the best gameplay, but it does have the best overall package which is important too.
I guess if they remake MGS1 i will like it better, but for now its probably the best MGS game, i'd rate it and MGS1 the same though, its just that MGS1 aged worse than MGS3.
I dont think its the pinnacle of stealth gaming though, i prefer Hitman, Chaos Theory and Thief over it, but it does have a very "Solid" overall package and very memorable cast of characters which makes it stand out in the genre.
I played it long time ago on the Playstation, im thinking if there's a good version on PC nowadays but it looks there's none except the emulation and i dont know how it performs there, which is unfortunate, this series is buried and could use some reviving, a good remaster and port to Steam will breath a new life inside it. Or an actual remake like Resident Evil series.
All the great 00s games are getting remakes, this better be on the table, or at least a freaking remaster. Can Kojima do something or its all Konami now?
I guess if they remake MGS1 i will like it better, but for now its probably the best MGS game, i'd rate it and MGS1 the same though, its just that MGS1 aged worse than MGS3.
I dont think its the pinnacle of stealth gaming though, i prefer Hitman, Chaos Theory and Thief over it, but it does have a very "Solid" overall package and very memorable cast of characters which makes it stand out in the genre.
I played it long time ago on the Playstation, im thinking if there's a good version on PC nowadays but it looks there's none except the emulation and i dont know how it performs there, which is unfortunate, this series is buried and could use some reviving, a good remaster and port to Steam will breath a new life inside it. Or an actual remake like Resident Evil series.
All the great 00s games are getting remakes, this better be on the table, or at least a freaking remaster. Can Kojima do something or its all Konami now?
Soodanim
Member
MGS1/2 on GOG have fan patches, but I don't think they're perfect by any means as with many from that era.
donkey_oaty
Member
He has a name. Fatman.
hououinkyouma00
Member
Oh I know. I'm just describing the fact that MGS has always been weird and it didn't start with 3.
kvltus lvlzvs
Member
How is metal gear survive?
ShadyAcshuns
Gold Member
SkeletonQuays
Member
never played it... I played a demo of 2 on when the ps2 came out... then played 4 on ps3. I keep hearing good things so I might have to play this gem at some point. Hoping for a remake or something from the start so I can get the full story.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
Mgs3 is the unsung hero ps2 was powerful enough for that game that felt ahead of its time.
calistan
Member
avalonzero
Member
Wow. My brain completely blocked this from existence. I forgot all about it.
GamesDontSuck
Member
If memory serves me correctly... (warning spoilers to anyone who doesn't want to know... but seriously it's been 20 years lol)
So as you say at the end of mgs2 it's revealed the patriots are already dead 100 years. When mgs 3 rolled around it wasn't the patriots but the philsophers and they weren't dead several decades. Volgin is after the philsophers legacy, they are split blah blah.
Come mgs4 , we learn that the patriots we first heard about in mgs2 actually consisted of your support team in mgs3 - they form after the events of mgs3 - Never is the fact they were supposedly dead 100 years ever mentioned again after mgs2 ending.
Sadly Kojima did retcon.
Last edited:
Soodanim
Member
To me that sounds like Otacon's great find actually being a red herring, then the mystery remaining a mystery until it's no longer a mystery in the next chronological game where the answer is revealed for the first time. If nothing is changed, then where's the retcon?
MGS2 itself tells us the information acquired isn't accurate in the game it's introduced in, so the list of names was always intended to be a dud. That's the twist ending, and twist endings aren't retcons. People may not like how the story plays out, but quality has no say in the matter.
Soodanim
Member
I like that list, but I have issues with it. If an alleged retcon ever mentions things like "Presumed dead", it's not a goddamn motherfucking retcon. What's the rule about dead people in fiction? If you didn't see a body, they aren't officially dead. If you see a body and the next game says what you saw didn't actually happen, that's a retcon. If a game says "I dunno he's probably dead lol" then he shows up in the next game, that's a continuation of a character's story.
killatopak
Member
My favorite MGS game.
Hearing that opening song the first time, I knew I was in for a ride. What a game. I'm glad it was my first MGS and love the fact that it was a prequel so I didn't have to know anything from the first two to really enjoy it.
What a time it was. I just came off playing the Splinter Cell games and thought stealth couldn't get any better but this just blew my socks off.
Hearing that opening song the first time, I knew I was in for a ride. What a game. I'm glad it was my first MGS and love the fact that it was a prequel so I didn't have to know anything from the first two to really enjoy it.
What a time it was. I just came off playing the Splinter Cell games and thought stealth couldn't get any better but this just blew my socks off.
Last edited:
donkey_oaty
Member
I understand, I was leaning into it by pointing out the obscurity that the fat guy is literally named "Fatman".
In a way though, Fatman is a perfect example of what makes the MGS series so special. He's not just a fat guy named Fatman, he's a demonlitions expert named after one of the atomic bombs dropped on Japan in WW2. It's such an obtuse mix of real world history mixed with the nonsense of a fat guy being named Fatman who rollerblades around planting bombs (probably doing sweet tricks while no ones watching).
It's this intersect that defines the MGS series. It's bringing in military experts to make sure the soldiers are holding the guns correctly during mo-cap when in the very same scene a gay vampire will be running on water because of nanomachines. The MGS series is completely built upon these things colliding, and it's wonderful.
Draxon Gamer
Banned
Trying to follow this series is a chore. You're better off just enjoying each games story as a stand-alone entry.
SkylineRKR
Member
Its all stupid, for example, Para Medic was retconned into a woman, she ends up being Dr. Clark. But MG from 8-bit era was ofcourse never written with continuity in mind.
About the Patriots, in fact, the list of names were of the original founders of the Philosophers (these were high ranking officials from China, Russia and US formed after the Great War). These can be seen as the original Patriots as its their legacy thats being acquired by Big Boss and with it the MGS3 crew starts up the Patriots.
The mistake Hideo made is actually explaining the patriots to such lengths in MGS4. They could leave it at MGS3, with the philosophers being the original, and leave it open from there.
GamesDontSuck
Member
It's fine to think it wasn't retconned. It's just opinion.
My opinion is it was. That Kojima had a direction with the patriots in mgs2 but changed that direction in mgs3 and 4.
I would be interested to know what exactly Kojima thought of way in advance because to me it feels like he pivoted alot and tried to match things.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I remember playing through MGS2 and being blown away by it, this was before MGS4 came out. I was like "no way MGS3 can beat that".. and it was like, the same level of quality. Two 10/10 games right in a row and I can't say which is better.
Soodanim
Member
I don't have an issue with you so I hope you don't take it as such, but it if a word has a definition there's no opinion to be had. The name itself is short retroactive continuity, i.e. changing the past. If there's no difference between "It was planned to be this way" and "There probably a plan that changed", then it's not a retcon because there's not anything that was set in stone then changed.
Specifically regarding Kojima's plot, I absolutely think he changed his mind plenty of times. He famously never wanted to do more games after 2, so 3 and later 4 almost certainly had to steer intentional mysteries into something worthy of a continuing storyline. Was it a good idea to make 3's cast the Patriots? Probably not, they can't have all be riding The Boss' dick that hard to want to continue her legacy outside of Snake and Zero, and talk about things getting out of hand.
You're probably right, it's been a while since I've played them too. Either way, my point is narratively the story took a huge turn with regards to how I thought then Patriots was going to play out and I thought it sucked and was lazy.
Poordevil
Member
Best boss fights of any game ever. Among my top ten video games I have ever played. The more I played through it, the more it blossomed. From beginning to end it never fell flat, only got better. A gaming masterpiece.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Best game in the series by far. It was followed up by 2 disasters of games for entirely separate reasons.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
MGS4 is when the series lost me. Trying to explain too much, too concerned with deep lore and wrapping up every story line.
Anyone remember Peter Jackson's 3 hour Hobbit movies? That's what MGS4 is.
RAIDEN1
Member
Personally I can't really say I was blown away by MGS2...and it was a bit of a drag to complete it...and it wouldn't be a title I would go back to either...where as MGS 3 when I was watching the video walkthroughs prior to their HD release I thought this game looks cool, subsequently I did end up getting it ...but why MGS-1 and 4 have never been part of ANY collection is surprising..
They had serious problems porting 2 and 3, with tons of missing effects and questionable performance (at least on ps3). Imagine the mess 4 would be, which is supposed to be very tied to the ps3 arhitecture.
I think when brute force emulation will be possible (ps6?) We will see a decent collection.
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
metaru_geah_sorrido
Member
I love this game.
The pseudo-Soviet acronyms are hilarious, the weird, grandiose theme music, surreal supermen, embittered soldiers looking for poetry in absolute carnage, the cruel romance for two SOG operator who are incapable of normal love.
It pokes fun at all the Cold War era tropes from the 70's and then turns them upside down, it might be Kojima's best story.
I treasure the memory of finding Kabuki makeup for Snake and wreaking bloody havoc with my knife.
Idk why, I usually try not to kill when the stealth mechanics are good, but that makeup made me think of the line in Hakaguri. Something about always being prepared for death by putting blush on your cheeks. It just made me want to be pitiless.
Also, it took me a while before I realized that I could change the two layers of background camo for the CQC animation in the UI.
Just click the R3 and L3 buttons.
The pseudo-Soviet acronyms are hilarious, the weird, grandiose theme music, surreal supermen, embittered soldiers looking for poetry in absolute carnage, the cruel romance for two SOG operator who are incapable of normal love.
It pokes fun at all the Cold War era tropes from the 70's and then turns them upside down, it might be Kojima's best story.
I treasure the memory of finding Kabuki makeup for Snake and wreaking bloody havoc with my knife.
Idk why, I usually try not to kill when the stealth mechanics are good, but that makeup made me think of the line in Hakaguri. Something about always being prepared for death by putting blush on your cheeks. It just made me want to be pitiless.
Also, it took me a while before I realized that I could change the two layers of background camo for the CQC animation in the UI.
Just click the R3 and L3 buttons.
Grildon Tundy
Member
MGS2's take on The Patriots' plan for AI-assisted digital age censorship (sorry--"context creation") is so freaking mind-blowing. Was that idea in media prior to it? I'd like to give MGS2 credit but it might be a case of not having been exposed to the concept elsewhere prior. Personally, I think it's more fact than fiction at this point, so when I replayed MGS2 last week, it's plot was very compelling.
Now, I'm replaying MGS3 because of this thread, and while I miss the sci-fi mind-bending plot of MGS2, it's a much more emotionally affecting and straightforward story. I keep getting spotted and killed because of the atypical controls, but I'm enjoying it for the most part.
These games are classics for good reason. Nothing else like them in a medium with literally tens of thousands of games.
Now, I'm replaying MGS3 because of this thread, and while I miss the sci-fi mind-bending plot of MGS2, it's a much more emotionally affecting and straightforward story. I keep getting spotted and killed because of the atypical controls, but I'm enjoying it for the most part.
These games are classics for good reason. Nothing else like them in a medium with literally tens of thousands of games.
Konami straight up fumbling easy money. All they gotta do is remaster or remake their games.