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[JohnnyFootball]

Imo they need to release a cloud streaming dongle for the tv and a cloud streaming handheld to try and find new markets for Gamepass subscribers. A $99 dongle with a controller packaged in and 3 months free of Gamepass might find a nice audience. And a $150 cloud handheld might also be attractive to some (it also needs to be remote play capable).

This is absolute fantasy. Nobody is going to cough up $18 a month to play games via streaming. Cloud gaming works as a pinch option, but nobody is interested in playing that way as the main option. I bet the number of current GP users with streaming as their on,y gaming means is in the 10000s maybe less.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Do you honestly think this number is significant? For your sake I hope the answer is no.

Yes, I do think a significant number of current Gamepass subscribers is from conversion deals and such. I’m locked in until may 2025. Not long before they started closing loopholes. Id wager over half the users are from conversion deals. MS made it so easy to stack for multiple years. Because of that I suspect Gamepass will have a rather significant drop in subscribers by the end of 2025.

 

[MrRibeye]

That's 0.425% of the world population. I've always found it weird that gaming is so huge, makes more money than Hollywood, but then total player counts are so low. Puts into perspective why Sony is investing in Afria and India.

 

[ActusReusJB]

I wonder if this year is sort of the last shot before they contemplate a Game Pass change. I could see the plan in late fall going “Play every CoD game ever with Xbox on Game Pass. Even those you remember from last generation, thanks to backwards compatibility. Catch up before the new one launches Day 1 with Xbox Game Pass.”

I imagine they are hoping at least some of the console audience goes well let’s try this for a month, becomes disappointed with the quality of cloud streaming the games and decides to pick up perhaps a Series S. I don’t think it is a coincidence that they are revealing powerful hardware later this year to potentially entice people who might consider switching.

If the documentation from the trial is true and there are really millions of people that don’t play anything but CoD those folks could be tempted especially since you would have access to the entire library.

 

[Three]

That's 0.425% of the world population. I've always found it weird that gaming is so huge, makes more money than Hollywood, but then total player counts are so low. Puts into perspective why Sony is investing in Afria and India.

Unfortunately gaming isn't that huge outside of mobile. Not bigger than Hollywood anyway.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Yes, I do think a significant number of current Gamepass subscribers is from conversion deals and such. I’m locked in until may 2025. Not long before they started closing loopholes. Id wager over half the users are from conversion deals. MS made it so easy to stack for multiple years. Because of that I suspect Gamepass will have a rather significant drop in subscribers by the end of 2025.

Same here, I stacked 3 years in Nov. 2022

I won't pay full price in 2026 after they went third-party...

 

[MrRibeye]

Unfortunately gaming isn't that huge outside of mobile. Not bigger than Hollywood anyway.

Here is the FTC document stating that the games industry has $170 billion in global revenues

Up from $159 billion reported by NewZoo in 2020

And you can get official numbers for Hollywood's revenue from the Motion Pictures Association's annual report giving us $42.2 billion in box office and $58.8 million in home entertainment for 2019. We have to check 2019 numbers, because COVID made it impossible to go to the cinema in 2020, but yes, gaming is x5 bigger than Hollywood.

 

[MisterXDTV]

I don’t think it is a coincidence that they are revealing powerful hardware later this year to potentially entice people who might consider switching.

They won't reveal more powerful hardware this year, they are revealing an hardware refresh of what it's already available NOW

See this:

 

[Ar¢tos]

No growth in 2 years. That about sums it up.

How can you say that? It just grew 9 millions with a finger snap.
When they create Gamepass Zero and include it in Windows OS, every PC running Windows will be another user, it will reach much more than 70 million in another finger snap.

 

[StereoVsn]

I saw a quote yesterday where Phil said they don't count people using promotions like 1£

To be honest, I got 3 years of gold + 1 month of GPU for 1 USD, so would I be part of the 34 million?

Edit: I found it
Phil Spencer says Game Pass now has 34m "fully paid" subscribers

Phil Spencer says Game Pass now has 34m "fully paid" subscribers

Microsoft has shared updated Game Pass membership figures for the first time since January 2022, saying the on-demand g…

www.eurogamer.net

Technically you are fully paid! . It may be only fully paid with $1, but hey that’s good enough for Phil. I don’t see them separating out full GamePass users based on what they paid. He is talking about Trial passes most likely.

Personally after my last deal expired I just didn’t bother renewing.

It’s not a bad deal with stuff like P3R and other games like Ishin and so on, but there are too many games, my backlog is too huge and I don’t have enough time for all of they.

 

[StereoVsn]

Here is the FTC document stating that the games industry has $170 billion in global revenues

Up from $159 billion reported by NewZoo in 2020

And you can get official numbers for Hollywood's revenue from the Motion Pictures Association's annual report giving us $42.2 billion in box office and $58.8 million in home entertainment for 2019. We have to check 2019 numbers, because COVID made it impossible to go to the cinema in 2020, but yes, gaming is x5 bigger than Hollywood.

You can’t compare Global Gaming revenues with just Hollywood. Need to throw world wide movie/TV and video content streaming industry.

 

[Three]

Here is the FTC document stating that the games industry has $170 billion in global revenues

Up from $159 billion reported by NewZoo in 2020

And you can get official numbers for Hollywood's revenue from the Motion Pictures Association's annual report giving us $42.2 billion in box office and $58.8 million in home entertainment for 2019. We have to check 2019 numbers, because COVID made it impossible to go to the cinema in 2020, but yes, gaming is x5 bigger than Hollywood.

Yeah but notice that 48% ($77B) of it is from mobile. Total player counts there are not small compared to Hollywood. Gaming outside of Mobile is significantly smaller. I also didn't think that by Hollywood you meant box office sales only.

Would there be a huge difference in consumer count in that case? The revenue vs consumer count ratio might be comparable.

 

[chonga]

This is absolute fantasy. Nobody is going to cough up $18 a month to play games via streaming. Cloud gaming works as a pinch option, but nobody is interested in playing that way as the main option. I bet the number of current GP users with streaming as their on,y gaming means is in the 10000s maybe less.

You've made an assumption that it would be the only way that user plays.

It can compliment an at-home device - a console, or a PC etc.

Further, you talk about as if no one would want to pay $18 per month for streaming as if it isn't offering value - but it actually offers more value, you're accessing the same content just via a different delivery mechanism and that's against the alternative of paying much more for the device upfront and much more per game you want to play.

It has a clear value proposition.

The only barrier is are you in a place where high quality internet is abundant, and that's the only valid anti-argument.

 

[TheGodfather07]

It's even worse than I thought. Remaining flat is one thing but they've lost subs. Hardware sales have collapsed and now they're going to port their games to competitor platforms. The brand is well and truly fucked.

 

[Pelta88]

Not announcing the numbers would have been a better PR move at this point. Like people aren’t aware MS obfuscated the XB numbers since their 2013 Q4 results in early 2014.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Game pass feels like it’s there for the sake of it it’s a shame Xbox live died.

 

[SportsFan581]

Those numbers are lower than I would have figured. Maybe they are starting to lose some of the X1 users and those users haven't upgraded to series.

 

[akaFullmetal]

Adding Xbox core (live) and barely over 30 million. Game pass hasn't grown at all, has lost some actually.. To be fair not many services have grown a lot, they run into a wall eventually and then can barely maintain numbers.

 

[BeforeU]

Its a $3T company and GAF is concerned they aren't making enough money lmao

 

[JohnnyFootball]

You've made an assumption that it would be the only way that user plays.

It can compliment an at-home device - a console, or a PC etc.

Further, you talk about as if no one would want to pay $18 per month for streaming as if it isn't offering value - but it actually offers more value, you're accessing the same content just via a different delivery mechanism and that's against the alternative of paying much more for the device upfront and much more per game you want to play.

It has a clear value proposition.

The only barrier is are you in a place where high quality internet is abundant, and that's the only valid anti-argument.

Yes, I did make that assumption because that is what the post I was responding to implied AND I addressed that it works best in a pinch.

So basically you and me are in agreement. Cloud gaming is fine in a pinch and as an option, but anyone expecting to bring in subscribers with cloud gaming being their only option....I've got some euphoria inducing oregano to sell you.

Basically any cloud gamer would overlap with console.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

Its a $3T company and GAF is concerned they aren't making enough money lmao

Xbox division, not Microsoft as a whole.
But you were well aware of that before the driveby shitpost.

 

[ActusReusJB]

Not announcing the numbers would have been a better aPR move at this point. Like people aren’t aware MS obfuscated the XB numbers since their 2013 Q4 results in early 2014.

I think they announced the numbers because they are expecting CoD to give it a big jump later this year and want to be able to highlight that growth in a short period of time.

I really believe that MS is optimistic at getting another solid wave of growth to Game Pass.

 

[Pelta88]

I really believe that MS is optimistic at getting another solid wave of growth to Game Pass.

So basically the same strategy that only leads to obfuscation?

 

[reinking]

Its a $3T company and GAF is concerned they aren't making enough money lmao

It is not the 3 trillion-dollar company "GAF" is concerned about. It is a service within that company. If you have been paying attention, you can see that the 3 trillion-dollar company is starting to expect a return on their investments. Go back and look at the history of what that 3 trillion-dollar company does to divisions and services that do not turn profit.

 

[TheUsual]

I don't know what percentage of xbox series x owners got their console through all access, I did at the time because it was the only way to easily find one but they make you pay for 2 years of GPU with that payment plan. I didn't renew my sub because there isn't enough on there for me to pay for that I want to play that I don't already own or have owned in the past.

That's how I got mine. Letting my GPU lapse as well.

 

[TropicanaTwista]

Look, doesn't take a genius to understand the numbers weren't gonna be good. They didn't officially announce to the public for 2+ years. If companies are doing well, they usually can't wait to spread the news. However this is worse than I thought. I figured it was a very very slow growth but growth nonetheless. This looks like it might be legit loss. After all that Xbox has spent on publishers and developers for this service, I can't imagine MS is very happy with the numbers. Guess the real question is, does Xbox have leeway because on the track they are going, I don't think MS will continue to just let them operate as they have been.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

How can you say that? It just grew 9 millions with a finger snap.
When they create Gamepass Zero and include it in Windows OS, every PC running Windows will be another user, it will reach much more than 70 million in another finger snap.

Can't argue

 

[recursive]

Me either. Wonder how they are defining "fully paid".

If the check clears its good to go.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Adding Xbox core (live) and barely over 30 million. Game pass hasn't grown at all, has lost some actually.. To be fair not many services have grown a lot, they run into a wall eventually and then can barely maintain numbers.

The real issue is that if GamePass has completely stagnated and Xbox sales are drying up, your replacement value isn't going to be where it was. That means you're absolutely going to see a decline in GamePass subscribers this year, which will force them to raise the price, which will in turn reduce how many subscribers they have.

This is the real reason why they're going 3rd party.

Things that we're going to see in 2024

• Continued reduction in Xbox sales
• Increase in price in GamePass
• Fewer 3rd party titles on GamePass
• More than 4 Xbox games on PS5 and Switch

And for a more wild prediction, I think they will further break out a tier for first party day 1 games on GamePass, but that might not happen this year.

For Microsoft there is no recovering from this.

When they talk about the next generation Xbox being the largest leap from one console to another, I don't doubt them. I can already see what they're planning. The next Xbox is essentially going to be a high-end gaming PC but it'll be priced according to that. We're talking about 800-1000 dollars. With maybe a low end option like the Series S for people who just want GamePass, but it won't be as heavily subsidized as this. This is how they'll keep the Xbox community going, but that's going to be the real Xbox Tax.

You design a gaming system with basically a 4090 in it and sure it'll be more powerful, but they're not going to sell many of these to casual gamers, but they'll sell the system for a profit.

 

[Topher]

If the check clears its good to go.

Sure.....but how does that work with Rewards points?

 

[metareferential]

When they talk about the next generation Xbox being the largest leap from one console to another, I don't doubt them. I can already see what they're planning. The next Xbox is essentially going to be a high-end gaming PC but it'll be priced according to that. We're talking about 800-1000 dollars. With maybe a low end option like the Series S for people who just want GamePass, but it won't be as heavily subsidized as this. This is how they'll keep the Xbox community going, but that's going to be the real Xbox Tax.

You design a gaming system with basically a 4090 in it and sure it'll be more powerful, but they're not going to sell many of these to casual gamers, but they'll sell the system for a profit.

It's never going to happen, but if that means some technically impressive high-end exclusive games (like the Crysis of old), I wouldn't mind.

Platforms come and go. Most gamers don't remember the 80s and early 90s, with lots of competitors and an ever-changing scene (I know it was a different time, both from a market and tech perspective. But still).

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It's never going to happen, but if that means some technically impressive high-end exclusive games (like the Crysis of old), I wouldn't mind.

Platforms come and go. Most gamers don't remember the 80s and early 90s, with lots of competitors and an ever-changing scene (I know it was a different time, both from a market and tech perspective. But still).

What games are exclusive to a 4090? It's not how it works.

 

[metareferential]

What games are exclusive to a 4090? It's not how it works.

I know. I meant next-gen exclusives that target a fixed spec as a baseline; in this scenario a 4090-equivalent, since I doubt the new xbox will come with different skus and hw capabilities.

I was thinking more about true next-gen experiences from the get-go (which are super rare in these days: we've had just a few of them in years).

 

[WitchHunter]

Update:

The zombies of the entertainment industry grew to 34 million. Plus two since this tweet was posted. Now we need to get these people and a smaller 10-15 meter in diameter asteroid to slam into the same spot and problem solved. Then Hollywood can create movies about this sad accident, and monetize the event.

A voice in their head said this is the spot, where the miracle will happen. And it happened!

 

[bender]

I was thinking more about true next-gen experiences from the get-go (which are super rare in these days: we've had just a few of them in years).

With the costs of game development and marketing, the numbers of these are likely to decrease, not increase. As much as people love to bitch about cross generation games, I just don't see them going anywhere.

 

[mckmas8808]

Unfortunately gaming isn't that huge outside of mobile. Not bigger than Hollywood anyway.

Gaming is very huge outside of mobile.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I think they announced the numbers because they are expecting CoD to give it a big jump later this year and want to be able to highlight that growth in a short period of time.

I really believe that MS is optimistic at getting another solid wave of growth to Game Pass.

LOL. They're not putting the newest Call of Duty on Gamepass.

They're not going to sacrifice the 100s of millions of day 1 revenue they can get from those games.

Call of Duty is simply too big to justify it.,

 

[JohnnyFootball]

The real issue is that if GamePass has completely stagnated and Xbox sales are drying up, your replacement value isn't going to be where it was. That means you're absolutely going to see a decline in GamePass subscribers this year, which will force them to raise the price, which will in turn reduce how many subscribers they have.

This is the real reason why they're going 3rd party.

Things that we're going to see in 2024

• Continued reduction in Xbox sales
• Increase in price in GamePass
• Fewer 3rd party titles on GamePass
• More than 4 Xbox games on PS5 and Switch

And for a more wild prediction, I think they will further break out a tier for first party day 1 games on GamePass, but that might not happen this year.

For Microsoft there is no recovering from this.

When they talk about the next generation Xbox being the largest leap from one console to another, I don't doubt them. I can already see what they're planning. The next Xbox is essentially going to be a high-end gaming PC but it'll be priced according to that. We're talking about 800-1000 dollars. With maybe a low end option like the Series S for people who just want GamePass, but it won't be as heavily subsidized as this. This is how they'll keep the Xbox community going, but that's going to be the real Xbox Tax.

You design a gaming system with basically a 4090 in it and sure it'll be more powerful, but they're not going to sell many of these to casual gamers, but they'll sell the system for a profit.

MS could sell the Xbox OS to PC users. I for one would be interested in that.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I know. I meant next-gen exclusives that target a fixed spec as a baseline; in this scenario a 4090-equivalent, since I doubt the new xbox will come with different skus and hw capabilities.

I was thinking more about true next-gen experiences from the get-go (which are super rare in these days: we've had just a few of them in years).

Again that isn't how things work. No next gen games are going to have a 4090 as their baseline and all these games are going to be on PC.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

MS could sell the Xbox OS to PC users. I for one would be interested in that.

 

[Three]

Gaming is very huge outside of mobile.

It's big but when I say "isn't that huge" I mean compared to the film industry. if you take out mobile gaming the console/PC gaming isn't as big as it unfortunately. As shitty as it is the majority of gaming users and revenue is on mobile.

Look at Neflix for example. Netflix alone makes something like $33B annually and has something like 260M subscribers. That's the entirety of PC gaming revenue (subs, game sales, everything) on 1 sub. The entirety of console units on 1 sub. The film industry is much bigger than the console/PC industry.

 

[Ar¢tos]

MS could sell the Xbox OS to PC users. I for one would be interested in that.

So you want a stripped down version of a Windows 10/11 hybrid with the removed features and legacy stuff added back, and a stripped down version of DirectX with the removed stuff added back?

 

[ReBurn]

So you want a stripped down version of a Windows 10/11 hybrid with the removed features and legacy stuff added back, and a stripped down version of DirectX with the removed stuff added back?

People have been asking for a stripped down version of Windows for gaming for a while. What you're trying to make sound like a bad thing wouldn't be a bad thing at all, especially for handheld gaming PC's.

 

[Ar¢tos]

People have been asking for a stripped down version of Windows for gaming for a while. What you're trying to make sound like a bad thing wouldn't be a bad thing at all, especially for handheld gaming PC's.

But there is a limit to what can be stripped. For a console with fixed hardware and limited functionality you can strip a lot more than for a pc with infinite hardware combinations and much more functionality (like printing, scanning, for example).

 

[JohnnyFootball]

But there is a limit to what can be stripped. For a console with fixed hardware and limited functionality you can strip a lot more than for a pc with infinite hardware combinations and much more functionality (like printing, scanning, for example).

Yes. There is. But there is also a WHOLE lotta crap that WIndows has running that could be stripped out.

 

[twilo99]

Its a $3T company and GAF is concerned they aren't making enough money lmao

GAF think that MS would be making even more money if it wasn't for xbox

 

[JohnnyFootball]

So you want a stripped down version of a Windows 10/11 hybrid with the removed features and legacy stuff added back, and a stripped down version of DirectX with the removed stuff added back?

WHy would stuff have to be removed and put back in? WHy not not remove it in the first place. Take out shit that doesn't affect gaming and/or gets in the way of performance and uses system resources

 

[Ar¢tos]

WHy would stuff have to be removed and put back in? WHy not not remove it in the first place. Take out shit that doesn't affect gaming and/or gets in the way of performance and uses system resources

Wouldn't a special boot mode for gaming in Windows OS be more practical?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Wouldn't a special boot mode for gaming in Windows OS be more practical?

Sure. I'd love that.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Its a $3T company and GAF is concerned they aren't making enough money lmao

No company likes to bleed.