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[Mephisto40]

That's honestly a lot less subscribers than I thought it had

 

[Darsxx82]

I've got to ask, when somebody in October suggested that MS should concentrate on services because their hardware sales were not working you said all these things. Do you still for a second believe any of it?

It's funny to see you searching for past passages trying to show some kind of inconsistency..... Sorry, better luck again because there is nothing there that is incongruent with respect to what I'm saying now

I repeat it to you easily and slowly:

-Gamepass subscriptions have not decreased, they have increased. What they have lost is Gold subscriptions when converting and there are reasons.
-In exchange you have more people paying GamepassUltimate.

So the other thing?? It only describes you in your intentions

But OK. These are sales predictions made in a situation that has now changed in some sense and were made under certain premises (which you have not bothered to highlight in black)...

That said, in the substance and context of what I said I still have the same opinion. The XSeries has a user base and the revenue it generates that suddenly abandoning the console business for MS didn't make sense. The fact that another generation of Xbox consoles has been announced should say it all.


PS. That's funny. Maybe you could also search the histories of others who predicted PS5 sales exceeding 25 million and surpassing PS4 at this point..... But it is clear that those people do not deserve your attention

 

[Darsxx82]

Where are you getting 35 from?

Sorry, 34

 

[ReBurn]

Just wait until they convert Battle.net to Game Pass MMO.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

"grows"

 

[graywolf323]

It’s funny that Sarah Bond said 34 million thinking people would be impressed, but within the hour it was proven to actually be a dismal number.

Anything to contain the negative PR effect. I'm almost sure that the calming candy Diablo 4 will be the only Activision title on GP for a good while too.

they’re counting on their legion of useful idiots (in addition to the paid astroturfers) which we already see on here acting like this is a good thing because they’re pretending it’s up from the previous 25 million figure instead of recognizing it’s down from roughly 42 million

this is a roughly 20% drop for a service that’s supposed to be growing, this is absolutely awful news

 

[Darsxx82]

You are making a bunch of assumptions and are trying to complicate things to picture a scenario you can't prove.

All Gold subscribers have been converted to Gamepass Core and there were 11m of them as of April 2022.
So if all these users stayed on Core, it would mean that Gamepass numbers actually declined.
You're saying that probably some of those Core have been lost/not renewed or that they migrated to higher tiers to make your claim that the service has not declined but it's impossible to quantify those changes, yet you present them as facts.

I am speaking based on the information that has already been published.

-Gamepass subscriptions have not decreased, they have decreased if the starting point were the sum of Gamepass +Gold in 2022.

That is, saying that Gamepass has decreased is not correct, what is correct is to say that Gold subscriptions have been lost in the conversion to Core and there are reasons why this was "foreseeable" because certain things have happened since then.

-The increase in Gamepass subscribers has occurred in a very small percentage due to the conversion from Live to Core. That's another sign to understand what I'm saying.

Regardless the reality, decline or not, is that with Core numbers included this data show a service that has completely stalled.

Since the moment in which console sales (which is where the vast majority of long-term subscriptions occur) have fallen... yes, clearly that means that the subscription/service has stalled.And it is another indication that makes me reinforce the idea that gold subscriptions have been lost because there are many XBO users who have not made the jump to XSeries and have stopped paying for any subscription.

 

[Three]

It's funny to see you searching for past passages trying to show some kind of inconsistency..... Sorry, better luck again because there is nothing there that is incongruent with respect to what I'm saying now

I repeat it to you easily and slowly:

-Gamepass subscriptions have not decreased, they have increased. What they have lost is Gold subscriptions when converting and there are reasons.
-In exchange you have more people paying GamepassUltimate.

So the other thing?? It only describes you in your intentions

But OK. These are sales predictions made in a situation that has now changed in some sense and were made under certain premises (which you have not bothered to highlight in black)...

That said, in the substance and context of what I said I still have the same opinion. The XSeries has a user base and the revenue it generates that suddenly abandoning the console business for MS didn't make sense. The fact that another generation of Xbox consoles has been announced should say it all.


PS. That's funny. Maybe you could also search the histories of others who predicted PS5 sales exceeding 25 million and surpassing PS4 at this point..... But it is clear that those people do not deserve your attention

I didn’t search for inconsistency. I remembered you specifically replying to a very sound assessment that hardware wasn't selling much and you making a bold prediction that it would go on to sell 60M, outselling xbox one. Remember this was only October last year and it was already behind. The only thing that's changed is that your outthere figures of 41M gamepass users and 60M xbox series sales have been shown to be farfetched by some official figures and change in sentiment. I just wanted to know if you still actually believed any of the farfetched information you were dishing out. It's also telling that you used 41M "gamepass" users in the past but now suggesting there hasn't been a decrease if you consider Live users non-gamepass users who converted. Where are your new new assumptions coming from about tiers?

As for PS5 selling 24M I actually said that official figure was lofty and overinflated. So try again.

 

[Luigi Mario]

they’re counting on their legion of useful idiots (in addition to the paid astroturfers) which we already see on here acting like this is a good thing because they’re pretending it’s up from the previous 25 million figure instead of recognizing it’s down from roughly 42 million

this is a roughly 20% drop for a service that’s supposed to be growing, this is absolutely awful news

It is actually hilarious that Timdog was hinting at this during his Twitter therapy sessions and naturally received a lot of pushback for it.
Apparently, he was told by his “sources” that Game Pass has completely stalled due to disappointing growth and low Xbox Series hardware sales.

 

[Elios83]

I am speaking based on the information that has already been published.

-Gamepass subscriptions have not decreased, they have decreased if the starting point were the sum of Gamepass +Gold in 2022.

That is, saying that Gamepass has decreased is not correct, what is correct is to say that Gold subscriptions have been lost in the conversion to Core and there are reasons why this was "foreseeable" because certain things have happened since then.

-The increase in Gamepass subscribers has occurred in a very small percentage due to the conversion from Live to Core. That's another sign to understand what I'm saying.


Since the moment in which console sales (which is where the vast majority of long-term subscriptions occur) have fallen... yes, clearly that means that the subscription/service has stalled.And it is another indication that makes me reinforce the idea that gold subscriptions have been lost because there are many XBO users who have not made the jump to XSeries and have stopped paying for any subscription.

Again you can't prove that Gamepass has not declined because you can't factually quantify the impact of the possible effects that you're mentioning, possibly leading to a decline in Core subs compared to the over 11m announced in April 2022.
Also you're not considering at all the possibility that Gamepass has indeed a high churn rate with people only subscribing the month Microsoft gives away something big/interesting (see Starfield month) and then unsubscribe, so there are indeed slow periods when it's really hard to keep subscribers.

Anyway as I said this is a moot point, it's not interesting to find the consolation prize for Microsoft, the substance is that the service's growth has stalled since 2022 and this data are the official confirmation after two years.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

My god, I just can't... seriously. Ok, let's try something like Sesame Street.

 

[Darsxx82]

I didn’t search for inconsistency. I remembered you specifically replying to a very sound assessment that hardware wasn't selling much and you making a bold prediction that it would go on to sell 60M, outselling xbox one. Remember this was only October last year and it was already behind.

What are you talking about?? Stop inventing and distorting, I don't know what need you have for it but it's not a surprise either.

I did not respond with the idea of denying that XSeries sales were not in decline. The context was not that. The context was to explain that XSeries already had a user base and generated enough revenue that the situation in which MS abandoned the console business suddenly or in the short term made no sense. And I added that this user base was definitely going to grow.

And no, I did not say the figure of 60 million consoles. You can read carefully, and you will see that I only point out the leaked predictions of MS itself while betting on the margin of between 40-45 million between now and 2028, which I don't think at that time would have figures that were very out of place... But hey, it's clear that misrepresenting is free

The only thing that's changed is that your outthere figures of 41M gamepass users and 60M xbox series sales have been shown to be farfetched by some official figures and change in sentiment. I just wanted to know if you still actually believed any of the farfetched information you were dishing out. It's also telling that you used 41M "gamepass" users in the past but now suggesting there hasn't been a decrease if you consider Live users non-gamepass users who converted. Where are your new new assumptions coming from about tiers?

And I repeat because you haven't understood. I have said that Gamepass subscriptions have not decreased (that is objective). What you can say is that in the conversion to Gamepass core many live subscribers have been lost along the way. But they are different parts. In that same quote that you saw fit to recover, I already distinguish between Gamepass and Gold subscribers.

As for PS5 selling 24M I actually said that official figure was lofty and overinflated. So try again.

It is clear that it is difficult for you to understand the hints..... I have not said that you said that the 25 million would be achieved easily, I have said that I have not seen you with the need to spend time recovering past quotes of people making mistakes in predictions and highlighting them How have you done now..... I wonder the reason?? No, it's not necessary, it's easy to understand that reason

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Pretty soon - GamePass Zero required to play on any device for third party MS games, at no additional charge!

GamePass subscribers now 200M!

Masters of spin

 

[Three]

What are you talking about?? Stop inventing and distorting, I don't know what need you have for it but it's not a surprise either.

I did not respond with the idea of denying that XSeries sales were not in decline. The context was not that. The context was to explain that XSeries already had a user base and generated enough revenue that the situation in which MS abandoned the console business suddenly or in the short term made no sense. And I added that this user base was definitely going to grow.

Please stop the bullshit. I've clearly bolded your predictions of xbox series sales in the previous post.

And I repeat because you haven't understood. I have said that Gamepass subscriptions have not decreased (that is objective). What you can say is that in the conversion to Gamepass core many live subscribers have been lost along the way. But they are different parts. In that same quote that you saw fit to recover, I already distinguish between Gamepass and Gold subscribers.

But what's this based on though other than again your wishful thinking? Why would this namechange result in a decline? If there is a decline why can't it be gamepass users (core or other) declining regardless?

It is clear that it is difficult for you to understand the hints..... I have not said that you said that the 25 million would be achieved easily, I have said that I have not seen you with the need to spend time recovering past quotes of people making mistakes in predictions and highlighting them How have you done now..... I wonder the reason?? No, it's not necessary, it's easy to understand that reason

That's because I haven't seen anybody make farfetched predictions like you do to stan for a company. In fact I've seen very little of it for PS because the numbers are often shared publicly unlike MS so there is little reason to. If however somebody said PS+ subs are not actually decreasing but in fact they're increasing because essential was losing users along the way and they're going to premium I'd point it out. if they were known for their out there predictions like you I'd also spot it easily too. You can even point it out yourself if you like. Your deflection isn't working on me.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

Growth has a new meaning it seems

 

[Darsxx82]

Please stop the bullshit. I've clearly bolded your predictions of xbox series sales in the previous post.

Ironic

Then check that quote again or learn to do sums because 25+15 (or 20) is not 60...
Better luck next time

 

[Three]

Ironic

Then check that quote again or learn to do sums because 25+15 (or 20) is not 60...
Better luck next time

Look at the bottom figure you shared that I bolded, that's what I'm referring to with 60M. You've missed the point too. Your new narrative of

"The context was to explain that Xbox Series already had a user base"

Isn't the same as what you were doing. You were predicting its future sales. You were incorrectly suggesting the sales figures and it wasn't even on track to hit 45 back in October. That's what's bullshit. You trying to lie and say that's not what you were doing but in fact just saying "it had a userbase" is just you being obtuse today.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

they’re counting on their legion of useful idiots (in addition to the paid astroturfers) which we already see on here acting like this is a good thing because they’re pretending it’s up from the previous 25 million figure instead of recognizing it’s down from roughly 42 million

this is a roughly 20% drop for a service that’s supposed to be growing, this is absolutely awful news

Diablo IV's impact on Gamepass will be minimal at best. Why do I say this? It's already sold millions upon millions of copies meaning those that were serious about playing it likely already bought it. It hasn't exactly received a glowing reception, since the seasons and nerfs started.

I think Diablo 4 was more of a "lets throw a bone to crowd to calm them down." In that regard, I think it was a good idea for Xbox to do that.

 

[Darsxx82]

Look at the bottom figure you shared that I bolded, that's what I'm referring to with 60M. You've missed the point too. Your new narrative of

"The context was to explain that Xbox Series already had a user base"

Isn't the same as what you were doing. You were predicting its future sales. You were incorrectly suggesting the sales figures and it wasn't even on track to hit 45 back in October. That's what's bullshit. You trying to lie and say that's not what you were doing but in fact just saying "it had a userbase" is just you being obtuse today.

What an obsession, you have a problem and that is not recognizing when you screw up and look bad.
By repeating falsehoods and distorting, you will not be able to change what I said.

As I said, you have taken a quote but you do not mention the context. The context of the discussion was not to bet on who made the best prediction, it was to discuss the logic of defending the possibility of MS abandoning the console business. I said that with what the 25 million generated made no sense and that in a normal situation the generation could end up with 40-45 million. If it seems to you that that figure (given in October) was somewhat out of place....

The 60 million thing is simply your invention. In that final sentence I was pointing out MS's own leaked prediction, it is not mine. I brought it up precisely as a response to someone who said it was crazy that XSeries could sell 15 or more million in the next 4 years until the release of a new gen in 2028, as had been leaked...

Simple. You just thought you had something to use as a throwing weapon and you failed.

 

[mayham2199]

Thats not what approving a business plan is like. When you make a 10 year projection and pitch, and someone funds you purely on that business plan, they are expecting results. You don't get to turn around and say 'Well, we're off by 60m but its all good cause we let you know ahead of time!".

You say that yet it feels like that’s exactly what happened and Phil got promoted.

 

[Mr Moose]

So I guess Diablo 4 is coming to Game Pass Core?

Update on this:

 

[salva]

I reckon there'll be a big decline around 2025/2026. I suspect that's when most people that banked on a few years of gold and converted to gamepass will expire.
Unless they come up with a similar "deal" to keep existing subscribers on

 

[XXL]

My god, I just can't... seriously. Ok, let's try something like Sesame Street.

The level of delusion going on right now on this forum is unreal.

 

[mayham2199]

Update on this:

lol another lie by MS I’m shocked.

 

[Mr Moose]

lol another lie by MS I’m shocked.

She graduated from the Spencer School of PR.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Again, you are using the sum of Gamepass and Gold to draw the conclusion that "Gamepass has decreased" when NO, it has not decreased, it has risen to 35 million.

Then, from there, it's easy, what you are showing is a loss of Gold subscribers along the way, not Gamepass users.

The loss of Gold users along the way makes complete sense:
-Price increase
-You don't need gold to play F2P
-Not all XBO users have switched to XSeries to make paying interesting.

You have confirmation that the % increase in Gamepass due to the conversion to Core is minimal...... That should clarify a lot for you.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

yikes

 

[freefornow]

Update on this:

They just seem to be incapable of getting their messaging straight/honest/factual/truthful.
They have been working on this "business update" since Jan? and they cant even get a simple game announcment right.

 

[havoc00]

I also think Xbox could advertise Game Pass better, I also don't think I've ever seen a Game Pass ad on TV and not like a game being advertised and at the end it says "on Game Pass" but an advert dedicated solely to advertising Game Pass, they should do it after ABK adds all its shit, like, an advert going through all the COD titles on Game Pass, and more! EA Access, Fifa, Mass Effect, Battlefield, plus XGS, plus Zenimax, etc. Just feels like (to me) they've barely advertised Game Pass to the general consumer and it's largely been aimed towards the dedicated audience thus far.

 

[Astray]

And why it was removed from Nadella's KPIs. At least the merging of Gold users into GP had the effect of letting them pretend that GP is doing better than it actually is.

All they gotta do now is find 66m more users in 3 years. No pressure!

Microsoft seems to really love doing weird shell games that make it harder to discuss their gaming business in detail.

Things like relabeling all Live Gold subs as "Gamepass Core" so they can count it as growth, or using "Xbox" and "Microsoft Gaming" interchangeably when each entity has a distinct meaning and their directions are beginning to diverge. Reporting weird non-sensical KPIs like "MAUs" while omitting the breakdown of users by platform, not to mention completely hiding all P/L records for almost a decade now.

It's a business that only wants to be discussed in a very precise way (basically praise), and it largely does this by confusing people and killing all possible context to its business decisions.

Starting to think this doesn't include Core. Bond said 34m Game Pass members would play Diablo 4. Unless it's coming to Core, I dunno.

Diablo 4 coming to gamepass is interesting given the nonsensical recent pricing of microtransactions, seems like they are trying to negate the effects of gamepass on its profitability as a title.

I also think Xbox could advertise Game Pass better, I also don't think I've ever seen a Game Pass ad on TV and not like a game being advertised and at the end it says "on Game Pass" but an advert dedicated solely to advertising Game Pass, they should do it after ABK adds all its shit, like, an advert going through all the COD titles on Game Pass, and more! EA Access, Fifa, Mass Effect, Battlefield, plus XGS, plus Zenimax, etc. Just feels like (to me) they've barely advertised Game Pass to the general consumer and it's largely been aimed towards the dedicated audience thus far.

That requires budget and budget requires the install size to make it justifiable. It's a vicious cycle tbh.

 

[Nydius]

My god, I just can't... seriously. Ok, let's try something like Sesame Street.

Thanks for posting those.
A shame people won’t pay attention.

34 million combined (Game Pass +
Gold) subs in 2022. 34 million total “Game Pass” subs in 2024 after they merged all subscriptions under one umbrella…

“Growth”.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

It's a business that only wants to be discussed in a very precise way (basically praise), and it largely does this by confusing people and killing all possible context to its business decisions.

I think it’s rather simple and comes down to an individual - everyone wants to be promoted so you are trying to be as neutral as possible not to give anyone a slightest excuse of why you might not be “fit” for the role. This the “corporate speech”, watering down the message as much as possible, etc.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

That requires budget and budget requires the install size to make it justifiable. It's a vicious cycle tbh.

So first make something (instal size) out of nothing (no investment), then we talk?

What happened to crazy idea that you need money to make more money?

 

[GHG]

If you look at the numbers they've actually lost ~2 million subs in all of this. Considering the thread title, the PR machine is undefeated once again.

 

[Sleepwalker]

PS subs also available on PC. And subscription gaming (not just online MP, but a library of games) originated on PS4 in 2014 and spanned across a potential 117M PS4s. Game Pass didn't come till 2017 and last gen the user base topped out around 50M for Xbox.

Not a good comparison. PS plus is only streaming on PC, and its definitely not pushed as hard.

Plus
- no first party day one games.
- no native pc support.
- no mobile support. Afaik
- recent price hike
- only discounted about twice per year

Meanwhile the push for gamepass has been insane

-Native PC support
- cloud on mobile, tv, pc
- day and date first party games
- $1 trials
- Bundled with a bunch of products, buy a tv? Heres 3 months of gp. Buy a rog ally? 3 months of GP. Buy any gaming laptop? You guessed it, free gp. Sub to discord nitro? Here have free GP.

 

[semiconscious]

Update on this:

whole lotta bait & switch goin' on...

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Why does that matter?

Sonys primary strategy for gaming is not reliant on pushing ps plus subs they aren't pushing nowhere near as hard, whilst Xbox it is fundemental.

Besides gamepass is available on pc, so userbase is much higher.

Since it includes PC as well, the sub installbase is pathetic.

 

[mckmas8808]

If you look at the numbers they've actually lost ~2 million subs in all of this. Considering the thread title, the PR machine is undefeated once again.

Microsoft is always really good at telling a lie but with technically truthful words.

 

[FunkMiller]

The fact they can't even get their facts and messaging right in a prerecorded segment is quite incredible.

 

[adamsapple]

The level of delusion going on right now on this forum is unreal.

Derangement is now making way to delusion.

 

[Banjo64]

An overall decline of 2.7m subscribers in 2 years is diabolical. No wonder they are going third party.

 

[skit_data]

Update on this:

You know stuff is too complicated and unreasonably entagled when the exec mess it up after 2 weeks of preparation

 

[Ar¢tos]

Next year they'll distribute Gamepass Keychains and every person owning a Keychain will be part of the brand new Gamepass Zero.
It will grow at least another 9 millions!

 

[XXL]

Derangement is now making way to delusion.

Says the poster who's was given a tag about having Phil Spencer's balls in his fucking mouth.

You're really just proving who ever gave you that tag correct.

 

[DavidGzz]

Gamepass has been out for 7 years now. wild.

But it's unsustainable. And 47 million is holy shit Sony is on fire while 34 million equals Xbox is crashing and burning any time now. This forum.

Pretty silly take from you there considering gamepass subs include everything from PC to mobile and tvs.

PS+ isn't on PC and mobile? It's not MS's fault the Sony app sucks.

 

[Three]

PS+ isn't on PC and mobile? It's not MS's fault the Sony app sucks.

Not really no, you can't even stream PS5 games on PC. You can only stream PS5 games on PS5. Nothing to do with the client app sucking and everything to do with trying to tie it to owning a PS5 to be able to play PS5 games. It's different business goals (one that may be changing for Sony).

I'm only saying that GP has a sizeable PC presence so using console install base to suggest the sub is actually doing better on the smaller xbox install base is a bad take. I think in the past we had some internal linkedin leak that estimated 10M were on PC which would align with their console install base difference if you subtracted it from the total at the time. Whether that PC presence is driven by necessity or something else isn't really what I'm getting at.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Microsoft seems to really love doing weird shell games that make it harder to discuss their gaming business in detail.

Things like relabeling all Live Gold subs as "Gamepass Core" so they can count it as growth, or using "Xbox" and "Microsoft Gaming" interchangeably when each entity has a distinct meaning and their directions are beginning to diverge. Reporting weird non-sensical KPIs like "MAUs" while omitting the breakdown of users by platform, not to mention completely hiding all P/L records for almost a decade now.

It's a business that only wants to be discussed in a very precise way (basically praise), and it largely does this by confusing people and killing all possible context to its business decisions.

Yep, typical corpo bros US F-Yeah MBA mindset.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Xbox reddit took the news in a new bizarre way of cope... they are all happy celebrating the new Xbox path," growth will be immense", "Square Enix is going to jump to Xbox side because of GP user count", and the best one I've read: "GamePass is actually closer to 60m users, but Xbox won't reveal that until they are ready to crush Playstation!"

 

[Krieger]

Update on this:

This is how it begins. Soon all the big games will only be available on the most expensive gamepass subscription tier, and the lower ones will get the shit games Xbox Gold users got for years.

 

[Damigos]

So there are actually less GP subs than when they peaked. Man, that $80 BN are gonna be hard to be returned.
Not that its a problem for a 2-3 trillion company, but still..