Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)

Do you believe the deal will be approved?


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Unfortunately, the FTC has to meet a higher threshold.

Establishing that CoD will go exclusive is the first element. The second element, which hasn't even been discussed, is that the exclusivity represents an unacceptable and anti-competitive move.
Would this be required in a preliminary injunction?
Company executives discussing how to beat competition is not a revelation. In fact, Spencer would be failing his fiduciary duty to the MS board if he wasn't doing his best to try and beat Sony and Nintendo at each and every turn.
I think the important thing they are trying to show is that they are discussing the removal of content to beat competition.
I also think the Minecraft reasoning is fundamentally unsound as, even if it did establish a desire to explore exclusivity, the game remains multiplat. I appreciate that there were contractual terms in place, but it underlines the point that MS (willingly or not) honoured those terms.
This is where the FTCs defense is considerably weaker. They can't remove CoD anyway because it has a contractual obligation so they can't show harm if they close before August and why I think the PI will not be successful.
 
Nope. The FTC lawyer asked if he was answering on behalf of himself or on behalf of Microsoft. MS' lawyer objected to the question and the judge allowed the objection.
His words don't mean much if you look at this exchnage. Saying his words under oath is going to throw away the console SLC is bizzarre. I mean it may very well get thrown out by the end of this, but on his words?



 
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There are many elements at play here.

We still don't know what was said during Jim Ryan's testimony.

Microsoft emails have shown their willingness to beat Sony by removing games from their platform to make Xbox stronger.

This is important because Jim Ryan said before that they rely on Call of Duty's revenue to make games. Sony is the market leader in the high-end console market by a large margin, but they don't have nearly as much cash as Microsoft.

Sure, they may have to reach a higher threshold, but no one here knows for sure what the judge is going to decide, so you go out there with their best effort.
The frustrating thing for me is that both the EU and UK regulators have seemingly waived the underlying competition concerns. They have focused on a secondary issue, being the cloud.

I think there's a compelling case that can be made that this acquisition represents horizontal market share. It's only the FTC that are going down this route, so it will be interesting to hear their argument.
 
Releasing Minecraft VR was in the contract? Or dungeons on PS+? Also, there is contract for CoD, so what's the concern?
Maybe Mojang believed the Xbox would be VR just like Phil Spencer said and they went to develop on Xbox and PSVR. Considering Xbox had no VR and Mojang were making a PSVR version required for multiplatform so they released the game to make back the costs [they could have considered VR as a platform].

The PS+ thing? Hasn't Bethesda games been on PS+ subscription service since acquisition so maybe developer discretion is allowed at MS.
 
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His words don't mean much if you look at this exchnage. Saying his words under oath are enough to throw away the console SLC is bizzarre. I mean it may very well get thrown out by the end of this, but on his words alone?





Why ask the question then if the answer doesn't mean much? And it's not just FTC that asked the question, the judge asked it too. The judge wouldn't ask it if not relevant for the case.

The console SLC is based on the foreclosure of CoD and what Microsoft has said so far with regard to keeping CoD on Playstation and Jim Ryan's own admission that he doesn't believe Microsoft will foreclose/ they'll be "more than fine" is sound evidence.
 
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Would this be required in a preliminary injunction?

I think the important thing they are trying to show is that they are discussing the removal of content to beat competition.

This is where the FTCs defense is considerably weaker. They can't remove CoD anyway because it has a contractual obligation so they can't show harm if they close before August and why I think the PI will not be successful.
That's a good point. I forgot that this is simply an injunction hearing rather than the actual trial.
 
I think there's a compelling case that can be made that this acquisition represents horizontal market share. It's only the FTC that are going down this route, so it will be interesting to hear their argument.

They can because in the US the two consoles compete quite closely in terms of sales/revenue.

That's not the situation elsewhere.
 
They can because in the US the two consoles compete quite closely in terms of sales/revenue.

That's not the situation elsewhere.
If they're close, it's potentially even more compelling. The challenge is to prove that acquiring ABK represents market share in the actual console market rather than software sales.
 
The console SLC is based on the foreclosure of CoD and what Microsoft has said so far with regard to keeping CoD on Playstation and Jim Ryan's own admission that he doesn't believe Microsoft will foreclose/ they'll be "more than fine" is sound evidence.
It matters if he isn't willing to give an answer that shows his words are binding to the corporation then his words absolutley can't be trusted.

And no jim ryans admission is not proof he is more then fine. That email was sent before contract negotiations begun and the realisation of how "inadequate" (jims words) the deal was, which was proven by MS upping the contract length from 3 years to 10 years. But then again this whole thing seems stacked against the FTC so who knows if the judge takes these specific points to help sway her to not grant the PI.
 
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If they're close, it's potentially even more compelling. The challenge is to prove that acquiring ABK represents market share in the actual console market rather than software sales.

Yep, which is why they actually questioned Phil on his intentions to get out of 3rd place yesterday, to which he replied he didn't want to get out of third place or something along those lines.

I found that exchange quite funny because he'd just spent the last half an hour ranting and moaning about Sony and how them (Xbox) being in last place is so hard, only to then say they are ok with their market position when directly questioned on it.
 
Yep, which is why they actually questioned Phil on his intentions to get out of 3rd place yesterday, to which he replied he didn't want to get out of third place or something along those lines.

I found that exchange quite funny because he'd just spent the last half an hour ranting and moaning about Sony and how them (Xbox) being in last place is so hard, only to then say they are ok with their market position when directly questioned on it.
Maybe he was eyeing 4th place in a 3 horse race

Akin to Spurs finishing third in a two horse race the year Leicester won the league.
 
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It matters if he isn't willing to give an answer that shows his words are binding to the corporation then his words absolutley can't be trusted.

The judge asked the question on his commitment under oath and the judge allowed the objection to the question whether Spencer was talking on behalf of Microsoft and himself. If the answer was insufficient to the degree of how binding it was, the judge would have asked for clarification. This whole angle of ambiguity toward Spencer's statement doesn't make sense because it was literally the judge who asked for it.
 
Not necessarily

As long as Phil Spencer is in charge, it will (under oath). Doesn't mean his successor is bound to the same oath

MS is unwilling to sign a perpetual contract. Says it all really. "10 years is plenty"

No evidence to suggest they won't foreclose eventually with CoD, every single one of their other acquisitions has been

The issue there being, anything Spencer says today could very easily be something Microsoft goes back on 10 years from now. Possibly even 5 years from now. And there are a multitude of ways that could be accomplished. Spencer no longer being with the company. Sony not agreeing to terms that Microsoft made unfavorable to them. Corporate strategy shifting due to a dynamic market. Clever changes to the franchise where some CoD titles still go to PlayStation while others don't. There are ways Microsoft could argue that years from now.

Doesn't mean they won't be hauled into court and face consequences, but let's be honest. The likelihood that anyone is going to go to prison over something said after a fair amount of time has passed or divestment is demanded, and Microsoft is given ample time to figure out its defense, is low. They would probably just end up with a slap on the wrist.

I don't think the FTC is going to stake their case on console concerns anyway. That's a losing battle. The fact that not a single regulator elsewhere found console gaming to be a concern, especially not in a competitive market like the UK, is going to be a point of contention that the FTC is not going to be able to overcome.

The FTC is trying to establish Microsoft's patterns to paint a picture of an untrustworthy defendant. They want to show contradictions. Inaccuracies. Intent, desire, or incentive to do the things they would claim they won't do. The FTC wouldn't mind at all if the judge walked away with console concerns and that was enough for a temporary injunction. But unless they're fools, that's not their endgame.

They'll focus on the same concerns that multiple regulators have on cloud gaming. They'll show how the EC demanded behavioral remedies, at least. They'll show that the CMA offered divestment options that Microsoft refused, which made them eventually block the deal. The FTC will likely lean on that especially, as the UK and US markets are very similar in their makeup.

At some point, they'll ask for a statement of intent from Satya Nadella on what Microsoft will do if the preliminary injunction isn't granted, even though the deal is technically blocked in the UK, with the appeal dated to start a week after the deadline. Which Microsoft and Activision have yet to renegotiate and to whom Microsoft's contractual obligation to achieve regulatory approval from the CMA cannot possibly be met without.

Which is a trap question. If Nadella answers that Microsoft plans to push through, regardless, the FTC will use that as an argument that Microsoft is showing contempt to authority and cannot be trusted to do the right thing in the US if they won't even do that in the UK. Which will also alert UK authorities to Microsoft's plan. If Nadella answers no, then the FTC will ask what the harm is in granting a preliminary injunction on a deal that can't go anywhere without a renegotiation that extends the deadline anyways. Answering no also putting Microsoft in a position to deal with serious litigation in two countries at once if they actually do try to force the deal. Even if the injunction isn't granted. Potentially costing them far more than anything the deal is worth.

If I'm Microsoft, I'm praying that the FTC never asks that question or that they miraculously get ABK to agree to an extension before they do.

Of course, this all assumes the FTC is even really trying to win here, actually cares about the deal, or has any competence.

I'd like to hear from S SneakersSO , who has been very quiet during this, it seems.
 
No surprise Phil didn't see the trap there, and Tom being no better at forming an argument thought it was a win situation for a tweet.

Phil is now on record that he understands the financial situation of how the merger works, and can no longer defer a question as beyond his knowledge, where the the FTC would get that transcript read back to him to discredit him completely.

Only a dumb person would fail to see a smart person intentionally playing dumb and then think they were smart by saying exactly what that person had wanted them to say.
Are you serious ? Ahhaahaua
 
The judge asked the question on his commitment under oath and the judge allowed the objection to the question whether Spencer was talking on behalf of Microsoft and himself. If the answer was insufficient to the degree of how binding it was, the judge would have asked for clarification. This whole angle of ambiguity toward Spencer's statement doesn't make sense because it was literally the judge who asked for it.
I mean the judge not asking for clarification doesn't change the fact that nothing was guaranteed it would be binding to microsoft, there is alot of stuff that get missed in court hearings that can be clarified later anyway. Regardless i don't even see the console SLC sticking anyway.
 
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I mean the judge not asking for clarification doesn't change the fact that nothing was guaranteed it would be binding to microsoft, there is alot of stuff that get missed in court hearings that can be clarified later anyway. Regardless i don't even see the console SLC sticking anyway.

FTC asked whether Spencer's words word on behalf of Microsoft, which would make it binding to Microsoft, or on behalf of his own position. Microsoft objected to that question, the judge allowed the objection. So it's not that the question wasn't asked or "got missed".
 
Look,

I'm not a fan of them doing nefarious things with this mega-purchase. I never have been, as it's now more clear than ever what their intentions are.

I think, realistically, we all know the ending to this story. If it clears, I expect, within time, an acquisition war to start between the two companies.

Sony doesn't have the capital that Microsoft does, but I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they bought Square-Enix as a retaliatory response..

Ubisoft will probably be ripe for the picking if they have another disastrous year..it goes on and on.

This whole thing sets a bad precedent for gaming.
 
Not necessarily

As long as Phil Spencer is in charge, it will (under oath). Doesn't mean his successor is bound to the same oath

MS is unwilling to sign a perpetual contract. Says it all really. "10 years is plenty"

No evidence to suggest they won't foreclose eventually with CoD, every single one of their other acquisitions has been
Well to be honest ,a 10-year contract for a first party game would be the first one seen in the entire video game industry. And I, like many, many others, think that for the market leader who boasts absolute dominance in many countries, should have no problems finding an alternative of income (that for the smarter people don't mean an cod killer, it could be whatever gaas) or at least trying to limit the hypothetical damage highly. 10 years is almost two generations of consoles
 
FTC asked whether Spencer's words word on behalf of Microsoft, which would make it binding to Microsoft, or on behalf of his own position. Microsoft objected to that question, the judge allowed the objection. So it's not that the question wasn't asked or "got missed".
Never said the question got missed, said there was no defintive answer if his words were binding to microsoft. I mean we may very well hear from MS soon if it was, but we got nothing in the hearing.
 
Is there a transcript of the hearing anywhere? I joined the thread and streams late so it would be nice to catch up via some Saturday morning reading.

Also, where are @feynoob and @reksveks? You guys on holiday/doing OK?

Feynoob made a post saying he was signing off because he received a mod warning about multiple use of alternatives... at least thats what I got from his post..... whatever that was or means hes gone for now
 
FTC asked whether Spencer's words word on behalf of Microsoft, which would make it binding to Microsoft, or on behalf of his own position. Microsoft objected to that question, the judge allowed the objection. So it's not that the question wasn't asked or "got missed".
What matters is just the legal reality.
Spencer confirmed he was not responsible for the negotiations.
If his words can bind the company they scored a good point about the foreclosure of COD on consoles, if not what he said has little legal value.
The FTC lawyer was able to state that his no answer proved the point that his words are not binding. We'll see what the judge ultimately thinks.
 
What matters is just the legal reality.
Spencer confirmed he was not responsible for the negotiations.
If his words can bind the company they scored a good point about the foreclosure of COD on consoles, if not what he said has little legal value.
The FTC lawyer was able to state that his no answer proved the point that his words are not binding. We'll see what the judge ultimately thinks.
You really think the judge will give a PI? Really? My gosh
 
- phil spencer , when asked, didnt bind his words to the company.

- the playstation 5 was especially mentioned in all clear answers about CoD and not playstation in general - the MS lawyer and the judge were very specific about it (strange coincidence no?)

- they didnt specifically said the game needed to be realeased directly on the platform (example : MS can offer COD only trough gamepass for sony ) - FTC fault for not asking that

- they didnt specifically say what interaction of COD (main line , warzone, etc); - FTC fault again


People are really really stretching saying that the broad testimonial with mostly vague answers of one executive NOT able or willing to bind his answers to the whole company is definitive proof that all CoD games will remain been made for sony consoles forever ...
 
Never said the question got missed, said there was no defintive answer if his words were binding to microsoft. I mean we may very well hear from MS soon if it was, but we got nothing in the hearing.

Unless the judge doesn't make that distinction. We'll see next Friday.

- the playstation 5 was especially mentioned in all clear answers about CoD and not playstation in general - the MS lawyer and the judge were very specific about it (strange coincidence no?)
This is not true. He initially mentioned PS5 but, Spencer expressly mentioned/clarified after the break that his statement wasn't exclusive to just PS5 but the PS platform.

Did people in this thread actually listed to hearing or are you going off of Twitter talking points?
 
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Unless the judge doesn't make that distinction. We'll see next Friday.


This is not true. He initially mentioned PS5 but, Spencer expressly mentioned/clarified after the break that his statement wasn't exclusive to just PS5 but the PS platform.

Did people in this thread actually listed to hearing or are you going off of Twitter talking points?

I dont use twitter .. hever had or will... it was a long questioning and I may have lost this part ... if you can point me to the exactly transcrit of this interation that phils mention all playstation I unlike many of you ms fanboys..am perfect able to admit that im wrong
 
I'm not a lawyer, so I have a surface level understanding (at best) about what is likely to happen with respect to this FTC vs MS/ABK thing.

However I think it's pretty clear to everyone that considers objective facts (rather than cheerleading for a brand), that MS/XBox has been building up a fake presence as "the pro-consumer choice". The last couple of days have completely skewered any notion that Phil Spencer + MS leadership are somehow "good guys". They will push out a PR narrative to the press (which has been wildly pro-MS since at least the beginning of the Xbox One gen when they carried water for MS around the used-games/always online fiasco). This narrative is amplified by their loyal social media tribe.

All the while, they are desperately trying to do everything many of us said they would - buy out the gaming landscape to destroy their competition. That's the end game, and MS are one of the very few companies on earth that could afford to adopt these tactics. It is no coincidence that Phil mentioned in the past that he sees Google, Amazon and Apple as competition, not Sony or Nintendo (the other megacap corps could run the same playbook as MS, no-one else can). This is the very definition of anti-competitive.

So yeah, if this goes through in the end (as I think it will due to the vast amount of money MS can leverage as "influence"), then at least the hearing has led to these lies of "good guy Phil" and "pro-consumer MS" been put to rest.

We now have documents and statements that refute the good guy narrative, on record.
 
A day that will live in I Infamy v1 Suprising high number of shill alt accounts appear to support the merger.
You're probably too excited writing and pointing fingers at some imaginary "shill" to not to see the pool at the top of every page of this thread. Most people think this deal will go through in this and the other well known forum. Obviously not everyone can think the same way ... but the outlier here is whoever thinks that this deal has the basis for not being successful ,anti competitive and anti consumer.... who does it, as we have seen and know is an outelier even among the regulators
 
You're probably too excited writing and pointing fingers at some imaginary "shill" to not to see the pool at the top of every page of this thread. Most people think this deal will go through in this and the other well known forum. Obviously not everyone can think the same way ... but the outlier here is whoever thinks that this deal has the basis for not being successful ,anti competitive and anti consumer.... who does it, as we have seen and know is an outelier even among the regulators
I assume you and that other forum also thought the CMA would approve it in april? How'd that work out?
 
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You're probably too excited writing and pointing fingers at some imaginary "shill" to not to see the pool at the top of every page of this thread. Most people think this deal will go through in this and the other well known forum. Obviously not everyone can think the same way ... but the outlier here is whoever thinks that this deal has the basis for not being successful ,anti competitive and anti consumer.... who does it, as we have seen and know is an outelier even among the regulators

I refer to my previous post below
If you want to chat, you can tell me first which poster's alt are you. Otherwise, kindly jog on.
 
In really curious to see if the UK regulators have the courage (and the political support needed behind the scene) to be the only ones to block an acquisition of this entity and above all concerning two non-English companies that is accepted in all the major markets on the idea of possible future competition issues in a market that is practically dead today. I'm of the opinion that if the FTC loses the CAT will send everything back to the CMA forcing them to accept behavioral remedies in their country exactly like the rest of europe
The CAT won't be forcing the CMA to accept behavioral remedies,they are stubborn as fuck
 
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You're probably too excited writing and pointing fingers at some imaginary "shill" to not to see the pool at the top of every page of this thread. Most people think this deal will go through in this and the other well known forum. Obviously not everyone can think the same way ... but the outlier here is whoever thinks that this deal has the basis for not being successful ,anti competitive and anti consumer.... who does it, as we have seen and know is an outelier even among the regulators
On what basis though? Anybody can think anything, but do you know the statistical probability of this deal passing, based on historical data, is now less than 3% at best?

Why would anyone take a bet on 3% and not 97% unless they desperately want something to happen?
 
So I guess this is it. The merger is one way or another deciding if Xbox will survive. Because at this point everyone sees that Xbox is much weaker than it pretends to be, and that without this merger MS has no reason to keep paying the bills. Because there is no reason to cheer for the merger unless you actually believe Xbox could still live without it.
 
I assume you and that other forum also thought the CMA would approve it in april? How'd that work out?
That there's an high chance that the cat will force CMA to accept behaviour remedies if they don't want that Ms go ahead with the merge closing xcloud in the uk
 
That there's an high chance that the cat will force CMA to accept behaviour remedies if they don't want that Ms go ahead with the merge closing xcloud in the uk
Why do people think this is even a option? Microsoft won't be closing Xcloud in the UK,and they certainly won't be taking ABK out of the UK and all of the other crazy shit I hear people saying
 
That there's an high chance that the cat will force CMA to accept behaviour remedies if they don't want that Ms go ahead with the merge closing xcloud in the uk
CAT can't force CMA to do anything. They can only kick it back for another review. And if the CMA sticks to their original decision, which history says they would. It's done.
 
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That there's an high chance that the cat will force CMA to accept behaviour remedies if they don't want that Ms go ahead with the merge closing xcloud in the uk
Vinny
WhiteOpulentBlueshark-max-1mb.gif
 
I dont use twitter .. hever had or will... it was a long questioning and I may have lost this part ... if you can point me to the exactly transcrit of this interation that phils mention all playstation I unlike many of you ms fanboys..am perfect able to admit that im wrong
I can't find yesterdays hearing online, the video's are either removed or private. It was a long hearing with bad auto and I cannot expect everyone to know everything. If anything, I apologize for the comment. There are multiple comments/quotes on REEE from the moment he made that statement and the statement itself, so it should be floating somewhere.
Spencer mentioned something along the lines that he read comments in the break and he needed to clarify the PS5 comment, so he did.
 
On what basis though? Anybody can think anything, but do you know the statistical probability of this deal passing, based on historical data, is now less than 3% at best?

Why would anyone take a bet on 3% and not 97% unless they desperately want something to happen?
Let's see how this end next week
 
CAT can't force CMA to do anything. They can only kick it back for another review. And if the CMA sticks to their original decision, which history says they would. It's done.
To use Xbox Bond's phrase, the FTC are doing god's work here and when or if the CMA have to re-review the acquisition the information the FTC have extracted here will let them reintroduce the console SLC, along with upholding the Cloud SLC.

Too much laundry from Microsoft to weaken the CMA findings, and if the ECJ don't wish to look corrupt, they should revise their findings off this info, to get to swoop as the good guys given their plans to grift the deal with fines is gone.
 
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